Orochimaru VS Sasuke

[Super Sanin 3]

Originally Posted by Kioroshi.

Kuro I am too lazy to go trhough all thread again but I think I countered all the post I can.And you still didn't countered all of mine only the Taijutsu one.

Well in taijutsu sasuke and Oro are similar I must agree but Its not too hard to impress deidara with speed cuz he is slow and almost everyone that are slow as him would be impressed with someone who is faster.I can give an example but I think its not allowed here lol. "dirty mind"

How can sea of snakes be countered by hawk?flying on it and sea of snakes waiting for him on the ground would be even more dangerous for sasuke.Cuz if Oro extends and somehow throws sasuke on the ground he is dead.

Give me a sasuke feat comparable to that of Oro dodging the KN4.As we all know KN4 is faster than V1 lariat...I think.

Oro is very powerfull taijutsu fighter since he can extend every part of his body and attack with kusanagi and shadow snakes too.

I don't think we have ever seen Oro at his full health.

Oro can probably dodge sasuke's chidori attacks when he extends himslef or trap sasuke's hand in the body sasuke stabs and then use Oral rebirth to stab sasuke with kusanagi.

hawk wouldn't be a prob for Oro I already explained why.And if sasuke then comes to the ground again he is dead so Btter for sasuke if he does not go on the hawk.

How can sasuke's ninjutsu cut through Oro's defenses?Oro was watching him the whole time he trained ninjutsu and Oro trained him himself.So he can Probably know how to defend against that.

you have yet to prove that sasuke is faster.I didn't said sasuke is slow just that he isn't as fast as Oro.

Well have you considered Oro going all out on Sasuke?Sasuke went all out on Danzo and it didn't seem to immpressive.He constanlty gets his chakra drained...I said it 1000 times already.

Oh you dirty lil guy

I disagree that Deidara is slow; he has very good evasion feats actually. He escaped a close-range encounter with Gaara's sand on the roof, dodged a blind-side by Naruto right after getting his arm kamui'd off, and escaped Team Guy (A taijutsu and speed specialized team) with no arms at all. Why do you think Deidara is slow?


I really don't feel like searching this whole thread either for everything tbh but I assume you hint at Orochimaru extending his neck to reach a far distance and hit Sasuke. This is kind of problematic as a whole because the "sea of snakes" doesn't seem to impress me as much as you I reckon from the looks of it. It is indeed a frightening jutsu, but nothing that Amaterasu cannot solve. Why? They're in a large dome that is the Konoha crater, and fire spreads. If Orochimaru decides to hide in this sea, he'll only burn himself. The main goal of Sasuke would be to draw Orochimaru out of the sea of snakes really. I don't think Sasuke is going to fly around on his hawk and spam long-range jutsu, but it's an ample defense until the threat has dispersed. Chidori Nagashi is known to act as a defense and stop projectiles too, so that's a plus.

I also think you are overrated the KN4 chakra arms. It's similar to

Spoiler:

the V2 arms in the latest chapter. Guy and Kakashi had plenty of time to counter-attack it. And the difference between the strength of the Bijuu can not make up THAT much of a difference.

Some extra things I find a bit overused are Sasuke's chakra being depleted. It's up for debate Orochimaru's true chakra level, but most of the things being specified here are very costly to his chakra and when put on a scale it still favors Sasuke conserving more chakra. Orochimaru wouldn't want to summon Manda, it'll just get caught in Sasuke's genjutsu and he'll be forced to unsummon it, wasting valuable chakra. Sasuke himself has just as much knowledge on Orochimaru as he used several of his abilities when he had him absorbed.

I'll come back later because I g2g now

Alright back. Anyways I feel things like Orochimaru's true stamina are independent variables that the person's opinion must decide. Obviously there would be an increase, but by how much? I'm going around 2-3X, which seems more than fair imo. I can see why somebody would choose Orochimaru however: he is a Legendary Sannin and arguably one of the more powerful members of the Akatsuki. From my perspective, I cannot see him beating Sasuke. He is foreshadowed to be one of the very top tiers of the manga and even his MS form seems a bit much for Orochimaru here imo. Even though I consider them about equal in strength at this point, Sasuke seems to have more counters against Orochimaru than vice versa when you add in the Sharingan (orochimaru's major fap material), Chidori techniques which block Orochimaru's mid-range techniques like shadow snakes, an insta-burn attack, etc.

For the record, I kind of hate long-quote wars since they basically get no where. If I feel that nothing is being accomplished, I may simply ask to agree to disagree. These characters are fairly powerful and it's close enough to be partially subjective to the user. I may seem competitive and too quick to assume that I'm right, but I think that's just the nature of debating. CHEERZ UP BRO, we're dead by the end of this year anyways

[Kioroshi.]

Originally Posted by Super Sanin 3

Oh you dirty lil guy

I disagree that Deidara is slow; he has very good evasion feats actually. He escaped a close-range encounter with Gaara's sand on the roof, dodged a blind-side by Naruto right after getting his arm kamui'd off, and escaped Team Guy (A taijutsu and speed specialized team) with no arms at all. Why do you think Deidara is slow?


I really don't feel like searching this whole thread either for everything tbh but I assume you hint at Orochimaru extending his neck to reach a far distance and hit Sasuke. This is kind of problematic as a whole because the "sea of snakes" doesn't seem to impress me as much as you I reckon from the looks of it. It is indeed a frightening jutsu, but nothing that Amaterasu cannot solve. Why? They're in a large dome that is the Konoha crater, and fire spreads. If Orochimaru decides to hide in this sea, he'll only burn himself. The main goal of Sasuke would be to draw Orochimaru out of the sea of snakes really. I don't think Sasuke is going to fly around on his hawk and spam long-range jutsu, but it's an ample defense until the threat has dispersed. Chidori Nagashi is known to act as a defense and stop projectiles too, so that's a plus.

I also think you are overrated the KN4 chakra arms. It's similar to

Spoiler:

the V2 arms in the latest chapter. Guy and Kakashi had plenty of time to counter-attack it. And the difference between the strength of the Bijuu can not make up THAT much of a difference.

Some extra things I find a bit overused are Sasuke's chakra being depleted. It's up for debate Orochimaru's true chakra level, but most of the things being specified here are very costly to his chakra and when put on a scale it still favors Sasuke conserving more chakra. Orochimaru wouldn't want to summon Manda, it'll just get caught in Sasuke's genjutsu and he'll be forced to unsummon it, wasting valuable chakra. Sasuke himself has just as much knowledge on Orochimaru as he used several of his abilities when he had him absorbed.

I'll come back later because I g2g now

Lord Jiraiya makes some sense.


Anyway...Idk why I got the idea that Deidara is slow I guess because he always just shot projectiles and I nver got a clear picture about his close-range fighting.Anyway I think He is slower than Kakashi and idk is sasuke faster than Kakashi...probably but I don't feel like checking manga now to see that.

Also I am not overusing Sasuke depleting his chakra.Maybe you just see it a lot because I need to repeat again and again...Anyway I think sasuke didn't ever used 2 amaterasu while susano'o on.Actually I think I never saw him use amaterasu 3 times in a row,or at least I don't remember.There is a reason for that and sasuke is aware of it,It gets his chakra HEAVILY if not completely drained.Oro can oral rebirth more than 3 times for sure so Sasuke can't spam ammy and susano'o here because he gets to fight stamina monster just like him.

I am kinda not overrating KN4 speed.Jiraiya got beaten up and I think he used chakra seal tag to seal KN4's chakra.And Orochimaru like I said 100 times allready fought KN4 with and at the end he stated it was nice playing,We get a clear picture that KN4 is fast cuz he beaten up jiraiya and he cou;dn't really beat up Oro,and Oro wasn't even at full health than and he was "playing"in some his creepy way.

Orochimaru has a large amounts of knowledge on sharingan,he won't hide in the sea of snakes just to get burned.

Chidori-Nagashi can be dodged.

Yeah I hint Orochimaru extending body parts and attacking with shadow snakes and kusanagi.Sasuke doesn't have much chance on a hawk and sea of snakes is waiting for him below.And if he Ammy sea of snakes he gets chakra and stamina drained a lot and its no problem for Oro cuz he has crazy amounts of chakra.

I saw your edit.Well I think i countered all of sasuke's techniques here with Oro's.And idk why you can't see him beating sasuke now.Because Oro has everything he needs to win,Who knows how much forbidden jutsu and stuff he ha more but Kishi didn't show us.

Yes Orochimaru lack Sharingan but he can counter sasuke without it too.

Orochimaru's stamina and chakra is very,very strong I think kabuto stated it a couple of times anyway but I am to lazy to check lol.

I don't really understand 2-3X thing explain it better lol.(yeah,yeah I am kinda stupid...kidding :P)


After all I think Oro is stonger at this point,but if Sasuke shows us some new tricks,jutsu's...that can beat Oro I will come to the sasuke's side in this debate.But now...for me its clear that sasuke is weaker at this point.

[Super Sanin 3]

Originally Posted by Kioroshi.

Lord Jiraiya makes some sense.


Anyway...Idk why I got the idea that Deidara is slow I guess because he always just shot projectiles and I nver got a clear picture about his close-range fighting.Anyway I think He is slower than Kakashi and idk is sasuke faster than Kakashi...probably but I don't feel like checking manga now to see that.

Also I am not overusing Sasuke depleting his chakra.Maybe you just see it a lot because I need to repeat again and again...Anyway I think sasuke didn't ever used 2 amaterasu while susano'o on.Actually I think I never saw him use amaterasu 3 times in a row,or at least I don't remember.There is a reason for that and sasuke is aware of it,It gets his chakra HEAVILY if not completely drained.Oro can oral rebirth more than 3 times for sure so Sasuke can't spam ammy and susano'o here because he gets to fight stamina monster just like him.

I am kinda not overrating KN4 speed.Jiraiya got beaten up and I think he used chakra seal tag to seal KN4's chakra.And Orochimaru like I said 100 times allready fought KN4 with and at the end he stated it was nice playing,We get a clear picture that KN4 is fast cuz he beaten up jiraiya and he cou;dn't really beat up Oro,and Oro wasn't even at full health than and he was "playing"in some his creepy way.

Orochimaru has a large amounts of knowledge on sharingan,he won't hide in the sea of snakes just to get burned.

Chidori-Nagashi can be dodged.

Yeah I hint Orochimaru extending body parts and attacking with shadow snakes and kusanagi.Sasuke doesn't have much chance on a hawk and sea of snakes is waiting for him below.And if he Ammy sea of snakes he gets chakra and stamina drained a lot and its no problem for Oro cuz he has crazy amounts of chakra.

I saw your edit.Well I think i countered all of sasuke's techniques here with Oro's.And idk why you can't see him beating sasuke now.Because Oro has everything he needs to win,Who knows how much forbidden jutsu and stuff he ha more but Kishi didn't show us.

Yes Orochimaru lack Sharingan but he can counter sasuke without it too.

Orochimaru's stamina and chakra is very,very strong I think kabuto stated it a couple of times anyway but I am to lazy to check lol.

I don't really understand 2-3X thing explain it better lol.(yeah,yeah I am kinda stupid...kidding :P)


After all I think Oro is stonger at this point,but if Sasuke shows us some new tricks,jutsu's...that can beat Oro I will come to the sasuke's side in this debate.But now...for me its clear that sasuke is weaker at this point.

I think it's the stereotype of being a long-range specialist. Usually people see speed when a ninja blitzes the other, which wouldn't work with Deidara for obvious reasons. His after-image speed is pretty reliable too, to be able to keep up with even V1 A is an impressive feat. To be able to create an Amaterasu shield before V2 A could hit him is just as impressive.

I don't mean to say Sasuke is using Amaterasu with Susano'o, as I don't see a reason to. He's fast enough to contend with Orochimaru on his own natural defenses, remember him destroying all those snakes that naturally appear on the White Snake (or Orochimaru's true form?). In fact I think he'd make Orochimaru Oral Rebirth once or twice up close. Plus there's genjutsu, which won't finish off Orochimaru but it can make him incapable of fighting for a while and make him repair the damage again. There is a limit to the amount of times he can do this. Susano'o is insurance, it saves him from getting hit by an attack he cannot dodge if he does get into that position. It gets dangerous from there on as now he has an attack that Orochimaru cannot simply revive from. Who knows if he'll even decide to defend against the arrow, he didn't decide to dodge the SoT that Itachi used after all.

The best thing to do is put the two jutsu on a balance and see which side conserves more: Amaterasu seems easier to pull off than 10,000 snakes. That's a lot of snakes that he summons. The stipulations are unclear in the Jiraiya vs KN4 fight but I'm sure he wouldn't want to kill Naruto (plus we saw how easily Kakashi sealed KN2, Jiraiya would have been prepared before opening the seal). Orochimaru said it was fun, but he also said he couldn't handle it anymore.

I don't see Chidori Nagashi as offense, just defense. Like how it defended against Yamato's wood, that type of thing. Orochimaru probably has a lot of jutsu he hasn't shown, but Sasuke also hasn't shown his true abilities with EMS yet. I meant X2/X3 as 2 or 3 times more, and imo I see this is fair. The DB says that the chakra usage is great and Orochimaru can only do so much.
I think the main argument you're putting up is the idea that Orochimaru outlasts Sasuke. These MS jutsu are his trump cards, I don't think he needs to resort to them quickly. Orochimaru may seem like a when he laughs at your attempts to kill him, but when he realizes he's in danger he gets scared pretty easily and starts raging. I can picture it happening in a manga panel: Orochimaru screaming "FFFFFFUUUUUU!!@" before he burns into a crisp by an Amaterasu sword/arrow.

By the way if this is creating too much stress on you than I'll stop on your request.

[Kuromaki]

Originally Posted by Kioroshi.

Kuro I am too lazy to go trhough all thread again but I think I countered all the post I can.And you still didn't countered all of mine only the Taijutsu one.

Well in taijutsu sasuke and Oro are similar I must agree but Its not too hard to impress deidara with speed cuz he is slow and almost everyone that are slow as him would be impressed with someone who is faster.I can give an example but I think its not allowed here lol. "dirty mind"

How can sea of snakes be countered by hawk?flying on it and sea of snakes waiting for him on the ground would be even more dangerous for sasuke.Cuz if Oro extends and somehow throws sasuke on the ground he is dead.

Give me a sasuke feat comparable to that of Oro dodging the KN4.As we all know KN4 is faster than V1 lariat...I think.

Oro is very powerfull taijutsu fighter since he can extend every part of his body and attack with kusanagi and shadow snakes too.

I don't think we have ever seen Oro at his full health.

Oro can probably dodge sasuke's chidori attacks when he extends himslef or trap sasuke's hand in the body sasuke stabs and then use Oral rebirth to stab sasuke with kusanagi.

hawk wouldn't be a prob for Oro I already explained why.And if sasuke then comes to the ground again he is dead so Btter for sasuke if he does not go on the hawk.

How can sasuke's ninjutsu cut through Oro's defenses?Oro was watching him the whole time he trained ninjutsu and Oro trained him himself.So he can Probably know how to defend against that.

you have yet to prove that sasuke is faster.I didn't said sasuke is slow just that he isn't as fast as Oro.

Well have you considered Oro going all out on Sasuke?Sasuke went all out on Danzo and it didn't seem to immpressive.He constanlty gets his chakra drained...I said it 1000 times already.

Our main debate revolved around the speed argument, which I still noticed you haven't provided any proof for, and any that you did mention, I already talked about.

Got anything to show how Deidara is slow?

He can just fly over it to see where Orochimaru is. It isn't that high to the point where he can't avoid it. Furthermore, Sasuke has basic katon and chidori spear which should destroy a fair amount of snakes, he doesn't really need MS to get rid of them. If Oro extends, it's likely that Sasuke will see him coming and react. In chapter 477 pages 9 and 13ish (depends on the site) Sasuke can even dodge in midair.

I already have. I've even provided Orochimaru feats against KN4 in your stead, and none of them are better than Sasuke's. But I'll give you another one too. In the very first page of chapter 463, we see Sasuke dodging a close range elbow from the Raikage. I have downplayed this in the past but it shows decent reflexes nonetheless.

Sasuke is a fast and furious taijutsu fighter. I just gave feats of him in close quarters against KB early on into our debate, sothat's done. With moves such as Chidori Sword, cutting through Orochimaru and his snakes should be easy. Chidori Nagashi and genjutsu make it hard for Orochimaru or his snakes to even be safely near him.

We may never have seen full health Orochimaru but that's all we have to go off of. I'm sure there would be an increase in his overall strength but we don't know by how much, and Sasuke would still have counters to his jutsu regardless.

I don't remember Orochimaru ever showing that type of strategy but its not like Sasuke will stand there and do nothing. Plus i think he knows what Orochimaru is capable of, being his former student and all. Orochimaru knows of his jutsu too but Sasuke has increased in power since Oro's death.

For the hawk thing, see above. Why wouldn't Sasuke be able to cut through his defense? The only thing Orochimaru has going for him here is regeneration and the Rashomon, both of which can't be spammed. We already know Orochimaru can't simply brush off Sasuke's attacks, shown in the first few pages of chapter 344.

I've already shown you multiple pages and chapters concerning Sasuke's speed, meanwhile you've done nothing to show that Orochimaru is any faster than him, other than claiming that he dodged multiple kn4 punches and kicks, which we now know didn't happen.

Yes I have, Oro's attacks either get dodged, blocked, or cut through. Sasuke did use several jutsu against Danzo, but because of the Susanoo, he got drained rather quickly. Danzo was also a formidable opponent because he had a 10 minute Izanagi, for the Sauce to survive that long is just evidence to how much stamina he has.

[Itachi-Returns]

Sasuke pwns. His power + Itachi's power (Itachi already raped him btw) = Over-Kill. And with EMS, I assume his Genjutsu ability has been upgraded by Itachi's. So...

SUPER BEAT DOWN FOR THE SNAKE PEDO

[UchihaXSasuke]

why is this going that much
we all know orochimaru gets rapped by Tsukuyomi
it's his biggest weakness he can't do anything against it

[megabbaut]

Originally Posted by Kuromaki

Our main debate revolved around the speed argument, which I still noticed you haven't provided any proof for, and any that you did mention, I already talked about.

Got anything to show how Deidara is slow?

He can just fly over it to see where Orochimaru is. It isn't that high to the point where he can't avoid it. Furthermore, Sasuke has basic katon and chidori spear which should destroy a fair amount of snakes, he doesn't really need MS to get rid of them. If Oro extends, it's likely that Sasuke will see him coming and react. In chapter 477 pages 9 and 13ish (depends on the site) Sasuke can even dodge in midair.

I already have. I've even provided Orochimaru feats against KN4 in your stead, and none of them are better than Sasuke's. But I'll give you another one too. In the very first page of chapter 463, we see Sasuke dodging a close range elbow from the Raikage. I have downplayed this in the past but it shows decent reflexes nonetheless.

Sasuke is a fast and furious taijutsu fighter. I just gave feats of him in close quarters against KB early on into our debate, sothat's done. With moves such as Chidori Sword, cutting through Orochimaru and his snakes should be easy. Chidori Nagashi and genjutsu make it hard for Orochimaru or his snakes to even be safely near him.

We may never have seen full health Orochimaru but that's all we have to go off of. I'm sure there would be an increase in his overall strength but we don't know by how much, and Sasuke would still have counters to his jutsu regardless.

I don't remember Orochimaru ever showing that type of strategy but its not like Sasuke will stand there and do nothing. Plus i think he knows what Orochimaru is capable of, being his former student and all. Orochimaru knows of his jutsu too but Sasuke has increased in power since Oro's death.

For the hawk thing, see above. Why wouldn't Sasuke be able to cut through his defense? The only thing Orochimaru has going for him here is regeneration and the Rashomon, both of which can't be spammed. We already know Orochimaru can't simply brush off Sasuke's attacks, shown in the first few pages of chapter 344.

I've already shown you multiple pages and chapters concerning Sasuke's speed, meanwhile you've done nothing to show that Orochimaru is any faster than him, other than claiming that he dodged multiple kn4 punches and kicks, which we now know didn't happen.

Yes I have, Oro's attacks either get dodged, blocked, or cut through. Sasuke did use several jutsu against Danzo, but because of the Susanoo, he got drained rather quickly. Danzo was also a formidable opponent because he had a 10 minute Izanagi, for the Sauce to survive that long is just evidence to how much stamina he has.

Well Sasuke's speed shouldn't be much of a problem, since he can't blitz non-fodders like Deidara, Darui and base KB.

I can agree that Deidara isn't slow

I would take quite a while for Sasuke to both summon the Hawk and fly high enough to go over the gate, and that's more than enough time for one of the snakes to catch him. He can't really spam Katon and Chidori Spear forever. The snakes will keep coming and eventually he'll get overwhelmed. Chapter 13 was just him jumping of the Hawk and page 9 he still got hit by a few of them. If anything once he's in the air he's an open target for extended snakes.

I really don't see how that is a really incredible reaction feat like most people hype it to be. All he did was duck which isn't very hard to do. There's also the fact that there are a multitude of people who can react to A. Suigetsu and Jugo reacted, Tobi reacted, Gaara reacted, Naruto reacted, and base KB reacted.

To counter your previous points, team 7 was nearly exhaust from trying to purify Naruto from KN4, when even Naruto was exhausted himself. Sakura also got hurt in the process, which explains why Sai and Yamato were the only ones who were doing anything. Sasuke really didn't keep up with KB at all. It was basically the same factor as Hinata vs Pain, person A at least landed a hit on person B, while for the rest of the fight person A gets overwhelmed and stomped. Jugo also dodged the Lariat and had time to get his friends in the process. The reason why he compared it to the Raikage was because Sasuke was the first person to dodge his Lariat ever since his brother, which means other times he probably only did it to fodders. Keeping up with KN4 reproducing chakra arms is a much better movement speed feat than Sasuke's. Chidori sword isn't enough to stop the snake apocalypse (lol) since he'd get blindsided. Chidori Nagashi can't be spammed forever, and Orochimaru has complete knowledge of Sasuke's genjutsu so he'd know not to look into his eyes since he dealt with Sharingan genjutsu numerous times.

We actually have seen Oro at full health. It's the same Oro that fought both Hiruzen and KN4. And Oro has counters to basically everything Sasuke has so yeah.

I think a strategy similar to what caught KN4 off-guard would be enough to defeat Sasuke.

I don't see Sasuke getting past any of Orochimaru's defenses, especially sea of snakes and Rashomon gates since none of his techniques have power close to KN4's pure strength and menacing ball.

[Kioroshi.]

Originally Posted by Kuromaki

Our main debate revolved around the speed argument, which I still noticed you haven't provided any proof for, and any that you did mention, I already talked about.

Got anything to show how Deidara is slow?

He can just fly over it to see where Orochimaru is. It isn't that high to the point where he can't avoid it. Furthermore, Sasuke has basic katon and chidori spear which should destroy a fair amount of snakes, he doesn't really need MS to get rid of them. If Oro extends, it's likely that Sasuke will see him coming and react. In chapter 477 pages 9 and 13ish (depends on the site) Sasuke can even dodge in midair.

I already have. I've even provided Orochimaru feats against KN4 in your stead, and none of them are better than Sasuke's. But I'll give you another one too. In the very first page of chapter 463, we see Sasuke dodging a close range elbow from the Raikage. I have downplayed this in the past but it shows decent reflexes nonetheless.

Sasuke is a fast and furious taijutsu fighter. I just gave feats of him in close quarters against KB early on into our debate, sothat's done. With moves such as Chidori Sword, cutting through Orochimaru and his snakes should be easy. Chidori Nagashi and genjutsu make it hard for Orochimaru or his snakes to even be safely near him.

We may never have seen full health Orochimaru but that's all we have to go off of. I'm sure there would be an increase in his overall strength but we don't know by how much, and Sasuke would still have counters to his jutsu regardless.

I don't remember Orochimaru ever showing that type of strategy but its not like Sasuke will stand there and do nothing. Plus i think he knows what Orochimaru is capable of, being his former student and all. Orochimaru knows of his jutsu too but Sasuke has increased in power since Oro's death.

For the hawk thing, see above. Why wouldn't Sasuke be able to cut through his defense? The only thing Orochimaru has going for him here is regeneration and the Rashomon, both of which can't be spammed. We already know Orochimaru can't simply brush off Sasuke's attacks, shown in the first few pages of chapter 344.

I've already shown you multiple pages and chapters concerning Sasuke's speed, meanwhile you've done nothing to show that Orochimaru is any faster than him, other than claiming that he dodged multiple kn4 punches and kicks, which we now know didn't happen.

Yes I have, Oro's attacks either get dodged, blocked, or cut through. Sasuke did use several jutsu against Danzo, but because of the Susanoo, he got drained rather quickly. Danzo was also a formidable opponent because he had a 10 minute Izanagi, for the Sauce to survive that long is just evidence to how much stamina he has.

Super Sanin 3 why do you think this is creating stress on me?its just that more that we go into this debate the more tiresome it is to go back and check all that I said to counter posts byt kuro and you.


Megga Oro that fought KN4 is not full health Oro btw.

Kuro,I don't know should I repeat again everything I said in earlier posts.and megga replid to your last post too.


Kuro I can't provide that many feats for Oro cuz he didn't fight much.he fought like 10x less than sasuke.

already said about deidara,I do not feel like repeating it cuz I repeated things in this thread far to many times and when I do you say that I am overusing it. (talking in general)


What can sasuke really do to react while on hawk?if he use shidori-nagashi Oro could just dodge that and come for sasuke again with his extends and shadow snakes.

Sasuke can't spam amaterasu,susano'o,chidori... either.

Sasuke can't cut through Oro,I think I seen him getting cut in half by KN4 and just merged his two halfs with snakes,so he don't just have Oral and Rashomon.One more thing to add in Taijutsu Sauce VS Oro fight.

You say sasuke has more counters to Oro's techniques than Oro has to sasuke's?I doubt that.How can sasuke stop Sea of snakes,kusanagi...
on the other side Oro has counter to every sasuke's techniques more or less.(he doesn't have counters to Ammy and susano'o but it gets sasuke chakra heavily drained so sasuke shouldn't use it much.)

Super sanin 3 you say that sasuke doesn't need susano'o here?he needs it+its very out of character for him not to use it against powerfull opponents because he likes to brag about uchiha...so he would use it for sure.

I doubt that Sasuke has more stamina and chakra than Oro.I consider them about equal if not than I would bet that Oro has more.

I am lazy to repeat what megga said so take his post into consideration too cuz I left some things that he said.


P.S. Can someone send me entire thing when fans asked Kishi questions on jump festa?Saiyan island doesn't have all I think.

[Kuromaki]

Originally Posted by megabbaut

Well Sasuke's speed shouldn't be much of a problem, since he can't blitz non-fodders like Deidara, Darui and base KB.

Never said he would.

I would take quite a while for Sasuke to both summon the Hawk and fly high enough to go over the gate, and that's more than enough time for one of the snakes to catch him. He can't really spam Katon and Chidori Spear forever. The snakes will keep coming and eventually he'll get overwhelmed. Chapter 13 was just him jumping of the Hawk and page 9 he still got hit by a few of them. If anything once he's in the air he's an open target for extended snakes.

The snakes from the wall cant extend themselves and its not like he cant react all of a sudden.

I really don't see how that is a really incredible reaction feat like most people hype it to be. All he did was duck which isn't very hard to do. There's also the fact that there are a multitude of people who can react to A. Suigetsu and Jugo reacted, Tobi reacted, Gaara reacted, Naruto reacted, and base KB reacted.

Well you just gave examples from some of the strongest people in the manga with the exception of Suigetsu who isn't total fodder. Suigetsu didnt react to a close range, high speed Elbow attack either unlike Sasuke.

To counter your previous points, team 7 was nearly exhaust from trying to purify Naruto from KN4, when even Naruto was exhausted himself. Sakura also got hurt in the process, which explains why Sai and Yamato were the only ones who were doing anything.

Yamato and Sai didnt seem very tired and Yamato remarked on Sasuke's speed. Naruto I can understand, and Sakura is relatively weak in comparison.

Sasuke really didn't keep up with KB at all. It was basically the same factor as Hinata vs Pain, person A at least landed a hit on person B, while for the rest of the fight person A gets overwhelmed and stomped.

Hinata went for one move while Pain casually sidestepped her and Shinra Tensei'd. Sasuke was dodging and parrying attacks from KB.

Jugo also dodged the Lariat and had time to get his friends in the process.

From a large distance away yes.

The reason why he compared it to the Raikage was because Sasuke was the first person to dodge his Lariat ever since his brother, which means other times he probably only did it to fodders.

Proof of that?

Keeping up with KN4 reproducing chakra arms is a much better movement speed feat than Sasuke's.

Orochimaru never did keep up with them, and you have yet to show me why it would be so much more impressive than anything Sasuke has done in the entire manga.

Chidori sword isn't enough to stop the snake apocalypse (lol) since he'd get blindsided. Chidori Nagashi can't be spammed forever, and Orochimaru has complete knowledge of Sasuke's genjutsu so he'd know not to look into his eyes since he dealt with Sharingan genjutsu numerous times.

Conveniently you forgot Katon which doesn't need to be spammed to take out fodder snakes.

He doesn't have to keep spamming these moves, just enough to catch Orochimaru.

I said that would make it dangerous close range, its hard not to look at his eyes if he engages in direct Taijutsu.

We actually have seen Oro at full health. It's the same Oro that fought both Hiruzen and KN4. And Oro has counters to basically everything Sasuke has so yeah.

How so?

I think a strategy similar to what caught KN4 off-guard would be enough to defeat Sasuke.

Except Sasuke isn't stupid like KN4 is and won't just stand there doing nothing, unless of course he had Susanoo.

I don't see Sasuke getting past any of Orochimaru's defenses, especially sea of snakes and Rashomon gates since none of his techniques have power close to KN4's pure strength and menacing ball.

I already covered this. EVen brought manga proof.

Originally Posted by Kioroshi.

What can sasuke really do to react while on hawk?if he use shidori-nagashi Oro could just dodge that and come for sasuke again with his extends and shadow snakes.

Already showed page and chapter showing that Sasuke isn't completely useless on his hawk.
Chidori Nagashi is something that cannot be dodged if Sasuke uses it as a defensive measure, 308 page 4 for reference.

Sasuke can't spam amaterasu,susano'o,chidori... either.

He doesn't need to.

Sasuke can't cut through Oro,I think I seen him getting cut in half by KN4 and just merged his two halfs with snakes,so he don't just have Oral and Rashomon.One more thing to add in Taijutsu Sauce VS Oro fight.

If Sasuke does cut him in half he'll likely attack again upon seeing Orochimaru merge, also what if Orochimaru gets his head cut off?

You say sasuke has more counters to Oro's techniques than Oro has to sasuke's?I doubt that.How can sasuke stop Sea of snakes,kusanagi...

Already said how. Kusanagi isnt going do be something Sauske cant dodge or parry.

on the other side Oro has counter to every sasuke's techniques more or less.(he doesn't have counters to Ammy and susano'o but it gets sasuke chakra heavily drained so sasuke shouldn't use it much.)

How?

[Super Sanin 3]

Honestly, most of the argument is an unknown variable that appeals to a person's opinion. His stamina when healthy is subject mostly to the reader's opinion. With stamina being one of the most important aspects here, it's really up to the person to decide and I'm not sure this is getting anywhere. It feels like most of the argument relies on this principle, and I feel like it's just going to be one of those things that go back and forth with no real conclusion. I'll have to to agree to disagree like said previously. It was fun though. In the end it's all speculation anyways, and this is subjective to the individual. These are make believe battles after all.

[Kioroshi.]

Originally Posted by Kuromaki

Never said he would.

The snakes from the wall cant extend themselves and its not like he cant react all of a sudden.


Well you just gave examples from some of the strongest people in the manga with the exception of Suigetsu who isn't total fodder. Suigetsu didnt react to a close range, high speed Elbow attack either unlike Sasuke.

Yamato and Sai didnt seem very tired and Yamato remarked on Sasuke's speed. Naruto I can understand, and Sakura is relatively weak in comparison.


Hinata went for one move while Pain casually sidestepped her and Shinra Tensei'd. Sasuke was dodging and parrying attacks from KB.

From a large distance away yes.

Proof of that?

Orochimaru never did keep up with them, and you have yet to show me why it would be so much more impressive than anything Sasuke has done in the entire manga.

Conveniently you forgot Katon which doesn't need to be spammed to take out fodder snakes.

He doesn't have to keep spamming these moves, just enough to catch Orochimaru.

I said that would make it dangerous close range, its hard not to look at his eyes if he engages in direct Taijutsu.

How so?

Except Sasuke isn't stupid like KN4 is and won't just stand there doing nothing, unless of course he had Susanoo.

I already covered this. EVen brought manga proof.

Already showed page and chapter showing that Sasuke isn't completely useless on his hawk.
Chidori Nagashi is something that cannot be dodged if Sasuke uses it as a defensive measure, 308 page 4 for reference.

He doesn't need to.

If Sasuke does cut him in half he'll likely attack again upon seeing Orochimaru merge, also what if Orochimaru gets his head cut off?

Already said how. Kusanagi isnt going do be something Sauske cant dodge or parry.

How?

Super Sanin 3 is kinda right but I can't give up on this debate cuz if I do It will mean that you win debate and I can't let that happen cuz sasuke is just not stronger at this point.(I still have trump card up my sleeve if you just don't get it)


how is jugo on of strongest people?

Yamato and sai didn't seem tired? O.o

I already explained why you cannot use the comments of others about sasuke's speed.Because if he is faster than someone of course he would get a compliment even if the other person is slow.Its like I have a house with 3 rooms and someone have a house with 10 rooms,of course I will compliment that and even grow a little jelious its natural.


Do you have proof it wasn't that way?


If he didn't keep up with him he would get blitzed which wasn't the case.

We can't show you another proof because Oro did not fight so much like sasuke so you have more feats.its not really our fault.


I don't clearly understand but by fodder you mean bigger and better summons or sea of snakes?sea of snakes can't really be burned by 1 fire ball.and if you mean Oro's summons then I can say this:they have hard skin and you can't really touch them by 1 katon jutsu,maybe just damage them a little.

What if he catches him?what can he really do?if he cut him oro would just regenerate.Actually only thing that can make Oro use Oral Rebirth is Amaterasu and Susano'o.

Sasuke can't really win a taijutsu fight.Cuz Oro is at full health who knows what he can really do anyway,and even kusanagi and shadow snakes are threat for sasuke in close-range.

The snakes from what wall?if you are talking about shadow snakes they can be extended.

So sasuke will attack him again if he sees that he is mergeing?and what Oro is gonna wait?no he will most likely defend while merging.If his head gets cut of the case would most likely be the same he would just merge.

EX:Normal ninja would die from getting cut in half and Orochimaru didn't so why would the case be changed if he gets his head cut of.And orochimaru isn't gonna wait till sauce cuts his head,he can dodge rather easily by extending his neck or tongue to grab Sauce's sword or spit kusanagi in sasuke's head or spit some snakes.You see you can't cut oro's head so easy and even if you do its gonna get regenerated.


How he has counters to every sasuke's technique?check all my other posts and you will see how lol.I think I explained all of them.

Well sasuke can be suprise attacked too,and oro is kinda specialist at that.

Oro's whitr snake form is weaker than his human form cuz Oro can't use his jutsu.And Oro was weakend back than it does not mather if he changed form he was heavily weakened back then.

[Super Sanin 3]

Dude there's not really any "winning" in these type of debates. I don't think at this point anybody is gonna change their mind either way it's just pointless arguing since it gets nowhere in my opinion. Drains the fun out of the debate.

[BigFan123456789]

I don't know about this, but if Orochimaru was at full health, fighting the Sasuke before his Mangekyo Sharingan and everything else, then I'd say Orochimaru wins for sure. But if he is fighting the Sasuke after he has obtained Mangekyo Sharingan, I'm not so sure who would win... Yes, Sasuke has a bigger advantage here, but we shouldn't underestimate Orochimaru either. Afterall, he is one of the legendary Sannin.

[Kioroshi.]

Actually I am getting tired of this myself...

[Kuromaki]

If you're getting tired of the debate then there's no need to continue.

On the other hand, I'm having fun with the debate, but you're not being forced to reply.

[321zigzag3]

Originally Posted by Super Sanin 3

Drains the fun out of the debate.

Welcome to my world.

This is why I am usually more than ready to usually go forth in trying to see their point of view.

One has to step back eventually.

Its weariness.

[Kuromaki]

There are very few here who will actually admit defeat when they're confronted by it.

[Super Sanin 3]

What I usually do is try giving my point and/or cross-examining a few times over and if there's not a real conclusion that can be seen I just give up. Hate persisting this stuff tbh (or at least quote wars)

[UchihaXSasuke]

Guys any arguments against the fact that oro is weak against sharingan?

[megabbaut]

I wouldn't mind keeping this going.