Spoiler The Final Tobi is Obito Explanation-REALLY NO MORE

[Poodle]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

The whole thing with "him" and "our plan," is that it is far and away most likely that Madara is referring to Tobi. Madara planned to be resurrected, a plan Tobi referred to in reference to Nagato using that Justsu for him.

In addition, Madara refers to Nagato as a "brat." So Nagato was a teenager at the oldest when Madara died (but more likely a child, since Nagato already had the rinnegan by his teenage years and had trained with Jiraiya). There is no way "Brat" would be the way Madara describes him.

In addition, your theory demands that there be two sets of Rinnegans, since Nagato had his at an early age, And kept them until his death later on. So Madara got his own. The eyes don't disprove your theory...

But Madara died before Obito was even training, So it is not possible for them to work together...

It would also be impossible for Obito to learn anything about Madara unless he's making things up. There is no reasoning behind his knowledge.

Also, if Minato is Hokage, how is Obito on his level in 1-4 years post boulder crush. That's not a believable leap of faith on top of Madara being dead before Obito was born, or at least 5 years before Obito died.

Also, People put too much emphasis on the space/time jutsu link. Minato and Tobirama can use it without Sharingans, so many/most ninjas could probably learn it if given the opportunity.

i don't know how you can trivialize Tobi's main/only ability being identical to Tobirama's when nobody else uses it. even Minato never used it like Tobi does which i assume is how Tobirama did. its like a direct connection, like finding the murder weapon, its the smoking gun IMO. its as big of evidence there is to guess with...

and if anyone could learn it don't u think they would have learned a technique that practically makes u invincible?

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by Poodle

i don't know how you can trivialize Tobi's main/only ability being identical to Tobirama's when nobody else uses it. even Minato never used it like Tobi does which i assume is how Tobirama did. its like a direct connection, like finding the murder weapon, its the smoking gun IMO. its as big of evidence there is to guess with...

and if anyone could learn it don't u think they would have learned a technique that practically makes u invincible?

No way. Minato teleports faster than Tobi, that's why Tobi is surprised by his speed and said to himself, next time I'll start as soon as I grab his arm.

And kakashi's is different from Tobi and and what we have seen as Minato. So no, there are different jutsu's within Time/Space. Think of it like it's a set of jutsus. Like elements, or seals.

As for Tobirama, don't assume anything, the other 3 are different within themselves.

It is NO SMOKING GUN. Four people that we know of use Time/Space Jutsu. 2 of the 4 learned without a sharingan.

There is zero direct connection established between Kakashi and Tobi when you are relying on justsu as the argument. You need a different one. And if somehow Tobi was Obito, then actually the non sharingan users we know of learned it before him or kakashi. And the uchihas were a clan, so narrowing the warping to the Sharingan can't be verified as special to those two, since the other Uchihas are dead. Tobi and Kakashi warps are like Susake and Itachi and Madaras' Susanoo. Maybe less common, but you don't need the same 2 eyes.

You last mentioned that if anyone could learn it, don't you think they would. Of course. But you act like it's a single jutsu rather than a style of jutsu. People know of Senjutsu. Nice to be as fast or faster than a sharingan user (maybe exclude the top dogs) and stronger than anyone we've seen. But not everyone is are they?

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

Your whole point has a flaw though.
Their "plan" didn't go up. Tobi did not resurrect Madara. In fact he didnt want to. Kabuto did. Kabuto even said to Madara:"but theres a chance he wont act as we want"
Something is fishy and different, you have no way of conducting what exactly, and all this uncertanty cannot decrease this theories likelyhood.
I dont get how you can even say that.
Zetsu can easely be the link in knowledge between these parts.
Naruto would woop the floor with Minato and look how young he is.
Also, Tobi kinda lost against Minato.
The difference is that those are "flashes" and "blinks", while their power is a round spiral motion.Sending someone into another space.Or themselves. It very alike.


Instead of these obvious wanna be holes in the theory, i would look at things like the shape of their eyes.
Their MS look different, now thats a problem for my theory, but Kakashi has a MS, while Tobi has a EMS, which could mean that Tobi's MS looked just liked kakashi's.
Which brings the problem:How did Tobi get the EMS? Did he(Obito) have a brother?

But again, these are only questions for the theory, nothing that makes it impossible.
Remember how you all felt that it was impossible for Tobi to not be Madara, remember your absolute certainty about that subject, you were wrong.
Now don't continue to go down that ignorant path.

There was no flaw in the first point of mine you quoted. That is what the dialog is in the manga. and from the manga, past tense. Yes we know Madara believes the plan changed. It's right there for us.

Zetsu could be the link, so I'm technically incorrect there, although no one, including you, have suggested that Zetsu, who appears under 40, might be past 90, and have that knowledge of Madara. So you would have to add immortality or a very slow aging process. I didn't make that assumption, because it's only established that Kakuzu is the only Akatsuki member that old.

You may be sure Naruto would whip Minato, but I think that is highly debatable. Pain would have wooped Naruto and Killer B, if not for Itachi. And Minato learned a bunch of Seals from Kushina. And Minato's enemies had orders to flee on site when he came around.

You are saying my comments are obvious wannabe holes in your theory. You say I should look at their eyes. Obito was not around when the Real Madara lived. Forget the eyes, focus on their ages, and the real ET Madaras opinion of the all powerful Pain..."Brat."

You have a nice idea. But if you turn out to be correct, it's because Kishi messed up the timeline.

[paradigm1977]

UPDATE: for ch. 562.

1. So now it is definite that Tobi and Madara both planned Infinite Tsukoyomi. I thought it was definite before, but now Madara has stated Tobi's plan.

So you are saying that Obito and Madara planned infinite Tsukoyomi, even though Obito is way younger than Nagato, and Madara called Nagato a brat. Yet sent a 14 year old to capture the 9 tails with no help. Unless you are saying Madara used that mask then passed it down to Obito. But you didn't say that. I just made it up. If anything, I just helped your theory.

[Bratcipheo]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

UPDATE: for ch. 562.
. Unless you are saying Madara used that mask then passed it down to Obito. But you didn't say that. I just made it up. If anything, I just helped your theory.

Ofcause i said that!
Or im saying, i dont care what these past stories are! I even said that i dont think its necessary for Tobi always to have been Obito.
My theory isn't suggesting to know Tobi's and Madara's entire story, the absolute only thing its supposed to know, is that the current Tobi with the mask, is partly, or fully, Obito.
Thats it.
Zetsu could even have been that partner they talked about, or someone else using obito's body.

Again, this theory only to explain why its the highest possibility of being right, that doesn't necessary mean its chance is high, but when looked at the rest of the possibilities it becomes high.

Edit:
ANd the reason why these timeline things arent the only absolute thing you can look on , is because the validity of those timelines aren't high.
We took Madara's word for him getting Rinnegan before he died.
We are dealing with someone capable going through space, then possibly also through time.
We took Tobi's word for madara giving nagato the rinnegan.
Alot of things that is most likely true, but not definite.

The reason why the eyes are important is this: Tobi's shape of the eye, his EMS looks exactly the same as Madara's EMS.
Sasuke has a different shaped EMS, Itachi and Kakashi different MS.
It heavily suggests its the same eyes, now thats a real problem.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

We are dealing with someone capable going through space, then possibly also through time.

Since when did he go through space or time? This hasn't been suggested.

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

The reason why the eyes are important is this: Tobi's shape of the eye, his EMS looks exactly the same as Madara's EMS.

Where did you see Tobi's? I haven't noticed, no one else has either. That's why there are theories by some that Tobi isn't Uchiha. Chapter and page for Tobi's EMS?

This theory needs more conveniences than the others. By far.

1. Obito lives when a medical jutsu user believes he's done for...I mean really, if there's a chance you live you don't just donate your eye.

2. someone finds him in the cave, and decides to dig him out. It's not just the boulder on him, but the huge pile of rocks on top of that.

3. His crushed side is healed. Either original flesh or some kind of organic replacement that fits his physiology and grows with his current flesh in perfect symmetry for same height, leg length.

4. That someone who healed him....decides it's best to keep him, rather than help him home.

5. He goes from a failure as a Uchiha and Minato's student, to being trained by a non future hokage (and genius) to the level of..... Minato, light speed genius hokage! in an arguable time frame that is almost definitely somewhere between 1-4 years. Not bad for a reject Uchiha with one eye and a formerly crushed body.

5. The young prankster doesn't get homesick. He stays away, in a new life.

6. And somehow decides years later that he will attack the leaf by himslef. How many years...1-4.

7. and once Minato hurts him he decides to randomly lie "I haven't been hurt in a long time" and further adds "you are worthy (LOL, you my former sensei who must prove yourself to me!!!) of the title Hokage." Is this because he wasn't sure of Minato's worth?????

Madara knew Nagato and refers to Nagato as a "brat" that is his memory. It is 98% that Nagato was a boy the last time Madara saw him. If you believe Nagato's eyes and Madara's are the same, then since Madara says he got the rinnegans just before dying...and we saw Nagato have them when he's a boy....Madara died when Nagato was a boy. Nagato was Jiraiya's first student. So Minato was younger, and Obito was the next generation of ninja. So Madara died before Obito was a ninja and likely before he was born. So how could Madara and Tobi work together on the eye of the moon plan? They couldn't.

So....

8a. There must be TWO sets of Rinnegans for Obito to be Tobi. And yet you say Tobi and Madara have the same EMS. It can't work that way. And where did you see Tobi's EMS?

or....

8b. To fix the eye set and make it one set again, Tobi must now be someone else who Madara knew in the past and now there is another Tobi. a Two Tobi's to make it work.

No other theory has this many plot dependencies to make it work. It is why this is the least likely, rather than most likely.

On the bright side....this means it has the biggest plot twist/surprise factor of the major theories and is more interesting than the unknown factors Izuna and Kagami.

[Kyūbi no Yōko]

Let me gather some datas .

Kakashi becoming Jonin = 13 yrs old ---> Obito was 13 as well.

You said, Obito would've been 14 when the incident happened.
For 1 year, a ninja(especially a lowskilled ninja, ex : Obito) cannot reach tremendous power. What Obito knew about Minato --> He could teleport, fast. (it's pretty important data)

What Tobi did on the Kyubi Incident :

-Summon 9-Tails
-Control 9-Tails
-Use Space-Time Jutsu
-Fight vs. Yondaime

Ok, summoning is not that hard, but first, to Summon you need to have a contract (not sure if it's the same with the Kyubi). Now, SUMMONING a Bijuu is something huge, something extremely huge, and as we've seen only 2 people can Summon a Bijuu and they are Tobi and Madara (unconfirmed if it was Madara who fought vs. Minato)

Controlling a Bijuu is out of the discussion, only certain people can do so, mentioning a few : Madara, Tobi, Yamato, Hashirama . (still it's not sure if they can control each Bijuu or only the Kyubi)

Space-Time Jutsus are on a very high level, and only a few people, high-skilled people can do them. Space-Time Migration (Tobi's Jutsu) lets the user teleport/warp himsef or others in a place he likes or teleport/warp himself or others in his own "pocket dimension". People who used Space-Time Jutsus : Minato, Tobirama, Tobi.

Fighting against a Shinobi like Yondaime (what he was capable of : teleport the Kyubi, teleport a Bijuu Dama, seal half of the Kyubi Chakra, made the sealing work so when the 8 tail would show Minato would force the seal, made Kushina meet Naruto for one last time in the future, expert on Fuinjutsu, etc...) is extremely hard, and almost even got him, except Yondaime was smarter and faster than Tobi.


All these stuff mentioned above cannot never ever ever be accomplished in 1 year, no matter who's the teacher, no matter what special kind of training you do, especially for a ninja like Obito, who knew nothing about Dojutsu except he knew that Uchiha had the Sharingan etc. ; he knew nothing about the Kyubi, he knew nothing at all. He was just 12 for God's sake. This was a pretty clear, simple explanation to you (Bratcipheo).

Something even shorter to tell that Tobi =/= Obito --> Obito was crushed, he even told he couldn't feel his right part, it was impossible to survive that.

[Bratcipheo]

Very well guys, ill explain things so you understand it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bratcipheo
We are dealing with someone capable going through space, then possibly also through time.

Since when did he go through space or time? This hasn't been suggested.

Where has it been suggested that Tobi goes through space!? Do you remember his mask spiraling and him suddenly disappearing and reappearing somewhere else`?Through space`?
Try chapter 503 page 8 for example.
This ability has always come from the eye.

Where did you see Tobi's? I haven't noticed, no one else has either. That's why there are theories by some that Tobi isn't Uchiha. Chapter and page for Tobi's EMS?

Youre actually right, in his backflash he had the EMS, but ofcause it was madara's backflash, how silly of me.
But that actually proves my point.
Im delighted, one of the only points i honestly thought of disapproving my theory has been removed.

Normal sharingans have no special ability, only MS have.
Tobi's space jutsu is a eye jutsu.
IF Tobi is Obito, then his original eye would be on his right side. IF Tobi is Obito, then his MS form would look like kakashi's, which would mean we would recognize it.
Hence Kishimoto hid it.

1. Obito lives when a medical jutsu user believes he's done for...I mean really, if there's a chance you live you don't just donate your eye.

2. someone finds him in the cave, and decides to dig him out. It's not just the boulder on him, but the huge pile of rocks on top of that.

3. His crushed side is healed. Either original flesh or some kind of organic replacement that fits his physiology and grows with his current flesh in perfect symmetry for same height, leg length.

4. That someone who healed him....decides it's best to keep him, rather than help him home.

5. He goes from a failure as a Uchiha and Minato's student, to being trained by a non future hokage (and genius) to the level of..... Minato, light speed genius hokage! in an arguable time frame that is almost definitely somewhere between 1-4 years. Not bad for a reject Uchiha with one eye and a formerly crushed body.

5. The young prankster doesn't get homesick. He stays away, in a new life.

6. And somehow decides years later that he will attack the leaf by himslef. How many years...1-4.

7. and once Minato hurts him he decides to randomly lie "I haven't been hurt in a long time" and further adds "you are worthy (LOL, you my former sensei who must prove yourself to me!!!) of the title Hokage." Is this because he wasn't sure of Minato's worth?????

Let me gather some datas .

Kakashi becoming Jonin = 13 yrs old ---> Obito was 13 as well.

You said, Obito would've been 14 when the incident happened.
For 1 year, a ninja(especially a lowskilled ninja, ex : Obito) cannot reach tremendous power. What Obito knew about Minato --> He could teleport, fast. (it's pretty important data)

What Tobi did on the Kyubi Incident :

-Summon 9-Tails
-Control 9-Tails
-Use Space-Time Jutsu
-Fight vs. Yondaime

Ok, summoning is not that hard, but first, to Summon you need to have a contract (not sure if it's the same with the Kyubi). Now, SUMMONING a Bijuu is something huge, something extremely huge, and as we've seen only 2 people can Summon a Bijuu and they are Tobi and Madara (unconfirmed if it was Madara who fought vs. Minato)

Controlling a Bijuu is out of the discussion, only certain people can do so, mentioning a few : Madara, Tobi, Yamato, Hashirama . (still it's not sure if they can control each Bijuu or only the Kyubi)

Space-Time Jutsus are on a very high level, and only a few people, high-skilled people can do them. Space-Time Migration (Tobi's Jutsu) lets the user teleport/warp himsef or others in a place he likes or teleport/warp himself or others in his own "pocket dimension". People who used Space-Time Jutsus : Minato, Tobirama, Tobi.

Fighting against a Shinobi like Yondaime (what he was capable of : teleport the Kyubi, teleport a Bijuu Dama, seal half of the Kyubi Chakra, made the sealing work so when the 8 tail would show Minato would force the seal, made Kushina meet Naruto for one last time in the future, expert on Fuinjutsu, etc...) is extremely hard, and almost even got him, except Yondaime was smarter and faster than Tobi.

Zetsu saved him, he healed him, he holds him back, Rin dies, obito develops MS because he blames himself for it. His sharingan can control the kyuubi, with chakra from zetsu he can summon it, he attacks the village in rage,(just like sasuke wants now) he didn't want to do the moon eye plan back then, with his MS he can evade the fourths attacks, he knows how the fourth fights, but he still loses.He loses.He uses zero more jutsu's, because he's still a kid afterall.

[Squall]

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

Think of Code Geass, think of Lelouch and his best friend, think of the masked man called Zero.
Was Lelouch evil?Was he evil as Zero?He saved the world by making the World hate him and unite them.
Just like Tobi does atm.

Hmmm, didn't you pay me out for using a Code Geass influenced theory in my "Tobi is good, acting evil, here's why" thread - http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108301

....Now you're making one yourself? Pretty sure the above quote is a direct rip-off. But sure, you can use it buddy ^.^

[Squall]

So you did, that IS stunning haha. Looks like I made one similar to yours. Didn’t read/see yours until today. Too many plothols to say Tobi = Obito, but reps for putting in detailed explanation.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

Very well guys, ill explain things so you understand it.


Where has it been suggested that Tobi goes through space!? Do you remember his mask spiraling and him suddenly disappearing and reappearing somewhere else`?Through space`?
Try chapter 503 page 8 for example.
This ability has always come from the eye.

Brain fart!!! I was thinking you were combining space and time into a single, simultaneous ability. Misunderstood your phasing. My mistake. Of course he teleports. He's always done that.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

Zetsu saved him, he healed him, he holds him back, Rin dies, obito develops MS because he blames himself for it. His sharingan can control the kyuubi, with chakra from zetsu he can summon it, he attacks the village in rage,(just like sasuke wants now) he didn't want to do the moon eye plan back then, with his MS he can evade the fourths attacks, he knows how the fourth fights, but he still loses.He loses.He uses zero more jutsu's, because he's still a kid afterall.

So you are saying that Zetsu saved him. Are you also saying that Zetsu, trained Obito up to Yodaime level? So now you have to add that a non sharingan user, "non-fighter" type (quote from Tobi to Zetsu with Sasuke facing off with Naruto, Kakashi, and Sakura) is the master trainer??

madara is still dead you know. And you still haven't addressed the eye of the moon plan and how Tobi/Obito and Madara worked together.

I know you like this theory, but with each of my points your explanation must in turn get hairier and hairier.

[JashinSama]

What you're saying makes you look like you agree with Kira.

Kira was the bad guy, LIGHT was the bad guy. So what if he was the main character? He was the bad guy.

Death Note references.

[Kyūbi no Yōko]

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

Zetsu saved him, he healed him, he holds him back, Rin dies, obito develops MS because he blames himself for it. His sharingan can control the kyuubi, with chakra from zetsu he can summon it, he attacks the village in rage,(just like sasuke wants now) he didn't want to do the moon eye plan back then, with his MS he can evade the fourths attacks, he knows how the fourth fights, but he still loses.He loses.He uses zero more jutsu's, because he's still a kid afterall.

How did Zetsu save him? He pushed up that stone for 1 second and teleported so fast?Zetsu's teleportation takes so long. Kakashi, Rin were seeing Obito, they got away for 2 seconds, how did Zetsu save him from there? How did he heal him when Obito was half-dead, where did Zetsu get his super Medical Ninjutsu skills? I bet Tsunade couldn't have healed him there, then if Zetsu could, is he the #1 Medical Ninja?

Even Sasuke after a lot of years training, he can't control the Kyubi, he even has EMS. For 1 year he couldn't have done so many things, he didn't knew how the Fourth can fight, cause Obito was a Genin --> means he went on weak missions, hardly faced a high skilled Shinobi that would make the Fourth use real advanced Jutsu. The Fourth usually used FTG, which is pretty important data on him, but Obito only knew that FTG is fast teleportation, he didn't know if he puts seals, where he teleports, etc.
Tobi doesn't even have MS.

[Bratcipheo]

Calling a dog a dog is appropriate, calling a fool a fool is also.
On one hand, im not allowed to say the truth, but on the other hand, you're allowed to post non-thought through, pointless nonsense, while you actually thought you made a point. Its pathetic and sad.

First of all, i would advice you to stick to one thread, since i didn't wan't to argue the same points in two, hence i just made fun of you for replicating this.


And btw, no, anything can happen in your eyes, but in reality only one thing can happen, Tobi's identity has been set in stones for years.

This matter isn't up to random, he has planned this, characters back stories, emotional connections, everything, if you think otherwise you're indeed a fool.

If he ends up being shisui, it was sure as hell not up to "chance", no that would mean that i analyzed the story wrong, that the pointers kishi gave me somehow got overlooked by me.
It would mean that i wasn't smart enough, that i was a fool.

Identifying Tobi's real identity is not up to chance, its skill.

[Bratcipheo]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

So you are saying that Zetsu saved him. Are you also saying that Zetsu, trained Obito up to Yodaime level? So now you have to add that a non sharingan user, "non-fighter" type (quote from Tobi to Zetsu with Sasuke facing off with Naruto, Kakashi, and Sakura) is the master trainer??

madara is still dead you know. And you still haven't addressed the eye of the moon plan and how Tobi/Obito and Madara worked together.

I know you like this theory, but with each of my points your explanation must in turn get hairier and hairier.

Trained up? You make it out as if he was really fast, had good taijutsu or ninjutsu, while in reality he only had his teleport and pass-through objects.
Abilities i say are based on a MS he has, with senju's DNA from zetsu and possibly chakra, he would be stronger yes (think of sasuke's cursed seal)
But he wasn't really strong, only his eye's were, and they are more given to him like a gun, instead of trained like a fist.
Remember, Tobi lost.

What you're saying makes you look like you agree with Kira.

Kira was the bad guy, LIGHT was the bad guy. So what if he was the main character? He was the bad guy.

Death Note references.

You make no sense, in what context is this?

How did Zetsu save him? He pushed up that stone for 1 second and teleported so fast?Zetsu's teleportation takes so long. Kakashi, Rin were seeing Obito, they got away for 2 seconds, how did Zetsu save him from there? How did he heal him when Obito was half-dead, where did Zetsu get his super Medical Ninjutsu skills? I bet Tsunade couldn't have healed him there, then if Zetsu could, is he the #1 Medical Ninja?

Even Sasuke after a lot of years training, he can't control the Kyubi, he even has EMS. For 1 year he couldn't have done so many things, he didn't knew how the Fourth can fight, cause Obito was a Genin --> means he went on weak missions, hardly faced a high skilled Shinobi that would make the Fourth use real advanced Jutsu. The Fourth usually used FTG, which is pretty important data on him, but Obito only knew that FTG is fast teleportation, he didn't know if he puts seals, where he teleports, etc.
Tobi doesn't even have MS.

This makes me doubt that you really read my theory.
Again, this part only concern with the Reasoning aspect of this theory.

When the stones collapsed Obito didn't die, big stones create gaps between them, he could still breath with that one stone on him, the next big stones can't get into him, they create a gap, that simple.

Zetsu can pass through objects, he probably only wanted to retrieve the sharingan, but the user was still alive.
Remember how Jugo healed sasuke? Remember the white goo from Tobi vs. Yondaime? Or his new right arm after he lost it vs. Karin?
Yes, im saying his right side is healed/replaced by Zetsu.

Tobi doesn't even have MS?Im saying he turns it on every time he uses his teleportation technique, but kishi isn't showing how it looks, because it will look like Kakashi's MS.

Sasuke can't control the Kyuubi? Oh i think he can. Controlling the kyuubi when its free and when its inside a jinchuriki are two entirely different things. If it were free, im sure sasuke could, i bet with senju cell's it's even easier for sharingan users.Sharingan users and people with Senju DNA can control it, with both its even easier, Obito with senju DNA and MS could do it.

Now ill go a little further:
You remember the accomplice Madara was talking about? Thats not Tobi, thats Zetsu.
Madara got Senju cells in the battle against the first Hokage, he infused them into himself and created Zetsu.

Zetsu gave the eyes to Nagato.
Zetsu retrieved Obito to get his sharingan, but he was alive.
Zetsu told him about the Moon eye plan.

[Kyūbi no Yōko]

If you are saying his whole right part got replaced by Zetsu then you're wrong, because we already saw his right part of the face and Zetsu couldn't have taken its form same as he couldn't have taken form of Tobi's real arm, we can notice Tobi's right arm is WHITE. Zetsu didn't give Nagato the Rinnegan, Nagato had them since he was a kid. Zetsu is not the main villain here, so you're wrong . Obito could barely breathe .
About Sasuke controlling the Kyubi, first of all, it doesn't matter if you have the Sharingan, it actually requires high skill on controlling it, and Madara controlled it cause of EMS and Senju Cells and amazing skill. Why didn't Kyubi respond to Tobi after the countless encounters between Tobi and Naruto? Why didn't Tobi ever try to call the Kyubi . As I said it's still unconfirmed if it was Madara or Tobi who fought Yondaime (most likely it's Tobi) .

Also, pointing something out.
Tobi vs. Minato --> Tobi has short hair.
Tobi meets Itachi --> Tobi has long hair.
Tobi during Shippuden --> Tobi has short hair.

This is surprising . It's either 2 Tobi personalities or Tobi didn't cut his hair until he met Itachi .

[Bratcipheo]

If you are saying his whole right part got replaced by Zetsu then you're wrong, because we already saw his right part of the face and Zetsu couldn't have taken its form same as he couldn't have taken form of Tobi's real arm, we can notice Tobi's right arm is WHITE. Zetsu didn't give Nagato the Rinnegan, Nagato had them since he was a kid.

You're taking it way to literally, his half side didn't get smashed perfectly down the middle. Why can't he take the form of Tobi's arm etc? Your reasoning makes no sense, ofcause he could.
Zetsu can even take the form another person completely and totally, down to the chakra and smell.Did you forget that?Why do you ignore the white goo in the Yondaime and Karin fight?It's obvious it can change shape until its destroyed, just like with the perfect clones naruto destroyed.

Zetsu is not the main villain here, so you're wrong .

No he's not, he's a weapon, the messenger.
Madara was, Tobi/obito is, and sasuke's is/gonna become the main villain.

Obito could barely breathe .

But he did breathe, your "barely" here is of no value.

About Sasuke controlling the Kyubi, first of all, it doesn't matter if you have the Sharingan

And this makes no sense, ofcause its matters if you have the sharingan. The Kyuubi even gets sharingan eyes when under control, he himself stated that he had as devious eyes as Uchiha Madara, back when Sasuke surpressed the kyuubi inside naruto. And he did that without MS, and now he has EMS.

and Madara controlled it cause of EMS and Senju Cells

Yes, and Im saying Obito got MS and Senju cells, its the same.

and amazing skill.

Based on nothing to say this actually, there's nothing that indicates this.

Why didn't Kyubi respond to Tobi after the countless encounters between Tobi and Naruto? Why didn't Tobi ever try to call the Kyubi

*sigh*, seriously?
The kyuubi didn't respond because Tobi didn't try to summon it. It only responded to Madara when he tried to summon it, but it didn't work since it was sealed within naruto. Why would Tobi to something obsolete?

The important thing here is, we don't know what Zetsu really is yet. We know he helped Tobi because of the white goo at the time, so he may be the oldest member.
We don't know whether Zetsu was a creation by Madara to create a body of the Sage of the six paths(with senju and uchiha cells) or if it was a way to create the Rinnegan or Sharinnegan, we don't know yet, what we do know, it didn't work out as planned.
Zetsu gave his the eyes to nagato and ended up saving/creating Obito/Tobi.

In my last post and this, i have now answered all your points, but as i can see you added new ones.
Let me remind you that you shouldn't run from point to point, never admitting defeat in any, thats not how we play.

Also, pointing something out.
Tobi vs. Minato --> Tobi has short hair.
Tobi meets Itachi --> Tobi has long hair.
Tobi during Shippuden --> Tobi has short hair.

This is surprising . It's either 2 Tobi personalities or Tobi didn't cut his hair until he met Itachi .

This actually isn't a problem.
It's as you say. Obito had short hair, as tobi fought Minato, short hair, then many years later meets Itachi, has long hair, some years later, has short hair.
Whats surprising at that?
Hinata got long hair, sakura cut her hair etc.

[Kyūbi no Yōko]

Wait, Hashirama and Yamato controlled the Kyubi because of the Mokuton, not because of the SHARINGAN.
I had the same question, why didn't Tobi try to summon it? He could've easily sealed it or he could've used it to crush everything.
Controlling a Bijuu requires skill .
What you are saying is that Zetsu is the main villain, cause he basically did everything, and let it to Tobi, why would he do that instead of DOING EVERYTHING himself, having the world in CONTROL, instead of letting it to Tobi, and who knows, Tobi might put Zetsu under Infinite Tsukyomi as well .

[Bratcipheo]

Originally Posted by Kyūbi no Yōko

Wait, Hashirama and Yamato controlled the Kyubi because of the Mokuton, not because of the SHARINGAN.

True, but wrong in context.
Hashirama and Yamato controled it because of Mokuton.
Madara and Tobi controlled it because of the sharingan.
Since Sasuke could control and surpress the kyuubi when naruto met him at orochimaru's place, and since the kyuubi got sharingan eyes when he destroyed the hidden leaf village.

With both abilities, you're even better at controlling it, why?
Because Uchiha and Senju are descended from the Sage of the Six Paths, Uchiha got his eyes, Senju the body. Hence sharingan to control and Mokuton to control. Hence they steal Uchiha eyes and Senju cells.
Because then, and only then, you can control the ten tails like the Sage.

Which is why Madara wanted Senju cells and Tobi already got them.
We know the white Zetsu are Senju cells, we know Tobi has white goo on his body.

I had the same question, why didn't Tobi try to summon it? He could've easily sealed it or he could've used it to crush everything.

You seem confused.
It was sealed within naruto, it can't be summoned.

What you are saying is that Zetsu is the main villain, cause he basically did everything, and let it to Tobi, why would he do that instead of DOING EVERYTHING himself, having the world in CONTROL, instead of letting it to Tobi, and who knows, Tobi might put Zetsu under Infinite Tsukyomi as well .

No, he's not the main villain. He helps. Obviously he gave the Rinnegan to Nagato, why? Why didn't he take someone's sharingan long ago?
Obviously something didn't go as planned. Thats my whole point.
He probably can't use it, for some reasons.