Naruto vs. Pain

[Bard Image]

In response to your off topic comment, I would also, as you have done, like to cite a recent post of mine.

I would rather discuss the match than drifting off-topic, however since TheBlackChidori is at the point he can no longer respond I do not think there is much else to discuss.

I believe you are the one bringing this up rather than simply debating, reminding me not to drift off-topic is quite irrelevant if you had paid attention to my posts, of course.

As for the match-up, it has not been as back and forth as you claim. Nor do I very much appreciate the subtle demeaning of my arguments, though, regardless: We have both backed up our claims and argued, disproven each other and continued to debate. It simply ended with no response from you. I would like to know why you were "not interested" rather than the point you could have at least said so yourself.

I have already displayed my arguments on this Naruto is well than capable of defeating Nagato at this point, I am not speaking of the Naruto in later chapters. Though, waiting will much reinforce my arguments rather than the other way around. Until this point you have simply ignored my final post, which I will remind you was not quite back and forth.

There is not much else to comment as the post that had actually really considered all this and refuted these points was already posted yet ignored, considering the length of it and the detail this is more of a reason I believed you were simply avoiding. No less, at least I will be the one to realize it if no one else.

I have still not gotten a good enough explanation on why after considering all of my arguments you do not believe Naruto wins, as if anyone is going back and forth and simply, not considering my posts as I've asked repeatedly for this reason specifically, then it is surely you, TheBlackChidori.

[TheBlackChidori]

Your last post was the exact same argument as your other posts. Shall I go through and count the number of times you said "Shadow Clones" in your post? I guarantee you I can come up with at least 20 instances.

I only take these debates so seriously. I don't have the time to sit here and repeat my points to someone who clearly isn't going to have his opinion wavered by any means. You believe each clone has the power of a full Naruto, which I think is absolutely ridiculous and nothing in the series has ever backed up such a claim.

Your final post was a repeat of the post before that, and the post before that. Therefore I decided not to take the 20 minutes to sit here and post yet another counter to the points that I had already countered.

I could care less if your mind hasn't changed. In reality, you seem to be taking a debate about fictional characters entirely too serious. And I'm not going to continue to bicker back and forth about the physics of Naruto's clones, which comes down to complete opinion. You have done nothing to convince me that Naruto Vs Nagato won't have the same outcome as it did when Itachi had to jump in and save Naruto. Knowledge, clones, and a near limitless chakra is your argument, and that's nothing I can counter because clearly you are too stubborn to think otherwise.

Fact is, Naruto does not have unlimited chakra. A clone is a weaker version of Naruto. He can not make an unlimited number. None of his clones have the durability feats to tank a giant Shinra Tensei. And your idea that he can destroy Chibaku Tensei is based off of a theory that Naruto will prep 11 Clones that will all use RS, despite the fact that it hasn't been done without the help of two other Shinobi using their strongest attacks.

Yet Naruto has never done any of that. I could easily say that Nagato has the Rinnegan, therefore has access to almost all Jutsu, and could counter Naruto's clones with clones. But since he doesn't have the feats of doing such, I don't. For that matter, you can't say that Naruto can make even 2 RS's at the same time, let alone 11.

And so far, I've seen Naruto go up against several opponents in RS mode, not once with the prep of multiple clones. So what I'm debating against is an out-of-character Naruto doing things he hasn't ever done in the manga, IE starting out with 11 RS clones capable of all using his strongest Jutsu, and the ability to reform each clone after every attack. It's ridiculous and a waste of time to continue arguing.

He did not use clones against the 4th Raikage. He did not use clones against the 3rd Raikage. He did not use clones against Nagato. He did not use clones to engage Tobi. Therefore your argument is mute to me. Everything I have used in my Pro-Nagato argument is a valid feat, or technique he has actually used in-character, in the manga.

You can continue trying to goad me into a further argument, but I assure you it will only end badly for you because at this point, you're just frustrating me more than anything and taking all the fun out of these debates.

I think Naruto wins via Pnj and TnJ

Other than those awesome unstoppable jutsus. Nagato/Pain wins.

[Bard Image]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

Your last post was the exact same argument as your other posts. Shall I go through and count the number of times you said "Shadow Clones" in your post? I guarantee you I can come up with at least 20 instances.

I would have dropped the arguments if you have proved them wrong, if you did not notice that is an argument I had use, this does not invalidate it in any way the fact that I must repeatedly remind you for your instances of simply ignoring them. Can you honestly not realize why it was the same basic argument?

I only take these debates so seriously. I don't have the time to sit here and repeat my points to someone who clearly isn't going to have his opinion wavered by any means. You believe each clone has the power of a full Naruto, which I think is absolutely ridiculous and nothing in the series has ever backed up such a claim.

You are correct. If you can convince me that Nagato wins I will be glad to change my opinion, though I can be quite sure it will not be "wavered by any means' simply because the idea of Nagato winning at all is silly. This is the more reason I think you were avoiding my posts, rather than "waiting" or the like, I feel there is hardly a possibility you could honestly disagree with Naruto's position as an extremely overpowered Shinobi here.

Your final post was a repeat of the post before that, and the post before that. Therefore I decided not to take the 20 minutes to sit here and post yet another counter to the points that I had already countered.

I honestly do not feel the need to respond to this as the reason I've repeated myself is you have not countered, this is the point of a debate we go back and forth, I prove your arguments wrong and you do the same. However there is plenty you for whatever reason act like do not exist then pretend that I am repeating myself while you effortlessly counter me, which is clearly not the case. I have not received a "counter" for plenty of my arguments while I have, quite thoroughly went through yours. Especially that positive reputation I had noticed from you does not agree with the way you are acting towards me at the moment, I do not know what happened.

I could care less if your mind hasn't changed. In reality, you seem to be taking a debate about fictional characters entirely too serious. And I'm not going to continue to bicker back and forth about the physics of Naruto's clones, which comes down to complete opinion. You have done nothing to convince me that Naruto Vs Nagato won't have the same outcome as it did when Itachi had to jump in and save Naruto. Knowledge, clones, and a near limitless chakra is your argument, and that's nothing I can counter because clearly you are too stubborn to think otherwise.

Too serious, I was under the impression this entire forum was quite serious as I've seen these debates turn. Though I might ask if you don't mind, what your age was if you consider these debates very out of the ordinary, wasting my time or "too" serious. You must take a look at the rest of this world, some debates taking place, or take some challenging classes in your school/college if you truly believe that.

Fact is, Naruto does not have unlimited chakra. A clone is a weaker version of Naruto. He can not make an unlimited number. None of his clones have the durability feats to tank a giant Shinra Tensei. And your idea that he can destroy Chibaku Tensei is based off of a theory that Naruto will prep 11 Clones that will all use RS, despite the fact that it hasn't been done without the help of two other Shinobi using their strongest attacks.

As I have said before, you act as if clones are a one-time-thing. They can be recreated multiple times. Not to mention I have given the durability accomplishments shown. This simply ties into, going "back and forth" as well as you have ignored the previous points I have given or you would not be saying these things yet again.

Yet Naruto has never done any of that. I could easily say that Nagato has the Rinnegan, therefore has access to almost all Jutsu, and could counter Naruto's clones with clones. But since he doesn't have the feats of doing such, I don't. For that matter, you can't say that Naruto can make even 2 RS's at the same time, let alone 11.

You are incorrect, TheBlackChidori, I have never once claimed something out of Naruto's capability unlike that you have claiming Nagato can use all jutsu. Unless you would like to quote somewhere I have anywhere implied something Naruto is not capable of. Naruto had created a dozen clones, each was easily capable of a Rasenshuriken, hundreds of giant sized Rasengan, planetary rasengan, multiple regular rasengan and much more. You continue to ignore this, you wonder why I repeat the same things over and over again, the reasoning behind this is because you ignore the things you cannot deny rather than accept it. I must repeat myself to counter these points, I have already said these things before. If anyone is repeating oneself, if anyone would not be interested in repeating oneself, would be tired of it, I believe that title would be more suited to me.

And so far, I've seen Naruto go up against several opponents in RS mode, not once with the prep of multiple clones. So what I'm debating against is an out-of-character Naruto doing things he hasn't ever done in the manga, IE starting out with 11 RS clones capable of all using his strongest Jutsu, and the ability to reform each clone after every attack. It's ridiculous and a waste of time to continue arguing.

He did not use clones against the 4th Raikage. He did not use clones against the 3rd Raikage. He did not use clones against Nagato. He did not use clones to engage Tobi. Therefore your argument is mute to me. Everything I have used in my Pro-Nagato argument is a valid feat, or technique he has actually used in-character, in the manga.

Each clone had already shown the capability to do this, what aren't you understanding? The clones had spread out in battle, clearly the single Naruto would be extremely overpowered summoning them here, with knowledge he would not do this for what reason? You are forgetting he had already created said dozen clones, this is why he did not create them, as well as the fact that even a single clone was enough to effortlessly destroy two Kage, to be honest, he had no need for said clones. Though with his chakra split up to below eight percent, to be honest he doesn't need them considering the massive chakra gain the real Naruto should achieve fighting without. Again, I must repeat myself because of the things you simply do not address, if you would actually like to debate this match(though you consider it a waste of time. What more of a reason would I have to think you cannot respond to my arguments?), I would suggest responding to my recent post rather than one that was hardly on topic, however I realize what is very much hinting at your inability to do so, but at least with your lack of response I will understand you had finally read my post logically.

You can continue trying to goad me into a further argument, but I assure you it will only end badly for you because at this point, you're just frustrating me more than anything and taking all the fun out of these debates.

I do not understand why I am being frustrating, I think it is simply your anger taking control because you are having a hard time in a debate for once. I am quite having fun however, while it definitely seems like nobody could give someone like you a "challenge" so I can understand. I enjoy debating with you, TheBlackChidori and I understand that I have not witnessed anyone here admit the other mans' argument was the better as of yet and clearly from your responses I can tell that it would be very rare to see this, though hopefully I will eventually. I do not see why this will end badly for me, I would like elaboration on this, I have not done anything wrong just to let you know as you are a moderator if I'm correct.

You seem to make me out as the horrible person that is simply making you want to destroy your computer, what is the reasoning for this, this is the point of debates no? I can easily understand some getting angry in debates but something like this is uncalled for, I am not attempting to make you angry, if I'm trying to "goad you into further argument" then if anything, would be an attempt to get you to go back on topic, and actually debate on the match and reply to my recent post(and pay attention to my points, looking at this match-up logically and not towards your favorite character at that), though I highly disagree with goad being the right word.

Using a different word however then yes you are correct, I am surely trying to convince you to continue arguing, on the match-up rather. It puts a frown on my face to wake up the following day and see no response from someone, or rather clear insults from someone or posts like this saying I am frustrating someone "more than anything and taking the fun out of these debates". That is not my intention I deeply apologize if I come across that way, I verily debate to have the fun and I have succeeded for my "fun" factor in the battlegrounds as of yet, though I still would like elaboration on what you mean by "ending badly for me".

[TheBlackChidori]

Yeah you're not getting it dude. Drop the damn argument.

At one point I had respect for you, now you're just a broken record. Feel free to chalk this up as a W.

I asked you kindly to drop the debate, and you didn't listen. Then you pestered, even posted again "Anything Theblackchidori?"

I asked you MULTIPLE times to drop it, and you continued on. So now I'll take it into my own hands and close this debate.

Now I'm telling you. I don't have the time to sit here and reply to your constant walls of texts. Using a few big words and rewording your previous posts don't change how I feel. You're not going to sway me. I'm not going to sway you. I don't really care! It's one topic in one subsection of one forum of a Naruto messageboard. Calm down, Jeez. It stopped being "Fun" many posts ago.

Ending badly involves the fact that you won't respect me enough to drop it, and you keep on. I am not interested in continuing this. Ending badly involves you not posting here at all anymore, because you can't drop a debate when it's over for people. And I've dealt with way too many kids who take these debates so seriously that it turns into drama and arguments, so I've gotten to the point where I axe those problems before they happen.

Of course I don't want that to happen. You're a great debater and a valuable asset to the battlegrounds, but you have to learn when to stop. There's a fine line between debating and choosing to disagree.

And I ask that you not play the victim and act Like I'm being mean because I took the days to debate with you over this. You didn't drop it when I asked.

Locking this now because I'm sure you'll have another 2000-word essay for me that I just don't have the energy to deal with. Real world calls. ^^


FYI, I didn't even read your last post because skimming through was once again, THE SAME ARGUMENT.

[TheBlackChidori]

And out of respect, I'd like to add that this was the best debate I've had in ages before you wouldn't drop it. I'd like to have it again someday when we have more RS feats.

[Kuromaki]

So... can this still count toward the tier list project?

[TheBlackChidori]

Yep.

As it stands Naruto is going to be placed above Nagato since it's a majority rule, despite my disagreements.

Bard, a downrep is unnecessary to get your last word in. A PM would have sufficed just as well. If you have anything more to say, my inbox is open.