Naruto vs. Pain

[Kuromaki]

Scenario 1: Naruto vs. Nagato by himself

Scenario 2: Naruto vs. Six Paths of Pain,

Is Naruto strong enough to beat Pain at this point?

Naruto gets prep only if necessary. Gogogogo.

[Isoteen]

Well I argued it before and I'll argue it again, Naruto doesn't use RS Clones vs. one opponent. He's highly confident.

I know it's been concluded by others he didn't use it simply because he used clones before that, and he was not trying to over exert himself, but I disproved that when he decided to clone directly after the battle before entering the war, completely draining his chakra. Clearly that contradicts his tactic and/or fear of losing his chakra during battle. Nothing really led me to believe he didn't use clones because he was afraid of running out of chakra during those two separate battles. Itachi even commented on his selfish desire to handle everything himself, he is by all means egotistical and over confident.

Again though, Naruto clearly now knows how to counter CT through Itachi's tactic, doesn't really help him though, Negato clearly destroyed RS Naruto and Bee, and will easily kill one RS Naruto through absorption and gravity pulls.

As for the six paths of pain, naruto used clones in SM, and there are several different opponents here so I would have to assume he would use clones in RS.

I don't think they can counter RS clones.

[Kuromaki]

Yeah he would have to use clones to counter all the Pain, and he would know about Nagato from his previous encounters with him. Naruto didn't win fairly against Pain in the story, but he's improved a lot now.

[Isoteen]

Ah, right.

I guess losing to Negato without clones would light a bulb for even the dumbest of ninjas to summon clones this time.

[Bard Image]

Yes, as Isoteen has already agreed on multiple occasions, Naruto not using shadow clones is quite silly. Naruto defeats Pain and Nagato very easily, they have to combat a dozen high leveled ninjas, each who had easily defeat a Kage and already defeated Pain one-on-one. This match is quite overkill.

[TheBlackChidori]

I'm not convinced he can destroy CT until I watch him use more then RS at once.

[Bard Image]

He has, TheBlackChidori. Plenty of times. He was already capable of doing more than five in a total of Sage Mode, this Naruto has an abundance of chakra-- much much more so than before.

Each Shadow Clone he had created before was creating Planetary Rasengan, along with two or more Rasenshuriken, a few rasengan, this makes it possible for Naruto to make at least a couple dozen with his humongous chakra reservoir. Combine this with Shadow Clones as he did, and have each throw a single Rasenshuriken, and Chibaku Tensei is no obstacle.

[elina0]

Originally Posted by Isoteen

Ah, right.

I guess losing to Negato without clones would light a bulb for even the dumbest of ninjas to summon clones this time.

very well said buddy..

[Rose-sama]

Yes I Guess.

[TheBlackChidori]

Originally Posted by Bard Image

He has, TheBlackChidori. Plenty of times. He was already capable of doing more than five in a total of Sage Mode, this Naruto has an abundance of chakra-- much much more so than before.

Each Shadow Clone he had created before was creating Planetary Rasengan, along with two or more Rasenshuriken, a few rasengan, this makes it possible for Naruto to make at least a couple dozen with his humongous chakra reservoir. Combine this with Shadow Clones as he did, and have each throw a single Rasenshuriken, and Chibaku Tensei is no obstacle.

But when he used against Nagato to destroy CST, he put all his power into it. A single clone can only generate as much power as Naruto gives it from the start. Shadow Clones = Splitting up power. It's good for a barrage attack, but he's trying to overwhelm a single target with one powerful blow.

It was Naruto's full power + Itachi's Susanoo + Bijuu Bomb, combined three powers, that took out CT.

Naruto can make all the clones he wants. His full power is going to be the same regardless.

[megabbaut]

Guys, CT isn't IC for Pain. He only uses it as a last resort. Also, prep is required to make the gravity ball.

[Bard Image]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

But when he used against Nagato to destroy CST, he put all his power into it. A single clone can only generate as much power as Naruto gives it from the start. Shadow Clones = Splitting up power. It's good for a barrage attack, but he's trying to overwhelm a single target with one powerful blow.

It was Naruto's full power + Itachi's Susanoo + Bijuu Bomb, combined three powers, that took out CT.

Naruto can make all the clones he wants. His full power is going to be the same regardless.

You are correct, his clones split their power. He had created a dozen clones, and if one is capable of using a Rasenshuriken, they all are. Also, if their full powers are the same as you said, there are no doubts about that.

I honestly am not going to argue if you believe the Yasaka Magatama, and the Eight Tailed Menacing ball combined are stronger than eleven Rasenshuriken combined, though if that is what you must say to prevent Naruto from winning, again I can understand if you are a fan.

[LUCKY.KAKASHI]

Is Naruto strong enough to beat Pain at this point ?



if he used the extremely fast speed that he used against A , and kisame , then yes , he might have considerable Chance of wining , or at least in my opinion .



note : i don't know why he don't use the hight speed so often , o wonder if he didn't master it or what , i want to know why he didn't use it in the battle against nagato ?

[TheBlackChidori]

Originally Posted by Bard Image

You are correct, his clones split their power. He had created a dozen clones, and if one is capable of using a Rasenshuriken, they all are. Also, if their full powers are the same as you said, there are no doubts about that.

I honestly am not going to argue if you believe the Yasaka Magatama, and the Eight Tailed Menacing ball combined are stronger than eleven Rasenshuriken combined, though if that is what you must say to prevent Naruto from winning, again I can understand if you are a fan.

Yes, I honestly believe that. That is the full power of 3 Shinobi, as opposed to full power of 1. Clones or not, he is not multiplying his power by 11, he is dividing his power by 11. It's math.


Deva Path alone still matched speed with what I consider to be the fastest character we've seen in the series, 6-tails.

[Isoteen]

What I considered when he cloned was breaking apart the full chakra supply, not weakening them but dividing the entire supply through the clones.

It does not weaken the Rasenshuriken as a hole.

All it does is allow for less Rasenshurikens to be produced as a result of splitting the full chakra source.

Naruto clearly does not use all of his chakra in a single Rasenshuriken, it requires a certain amount of chakra and cannot do more damage than the other simply because it was thrown by the original.

Do I personally believe Naruto needed help destroying the CT nucleus? Not at all, Rasenshuriken could clearly bust that on its own. It was overkill.

Moreover, Naruto has the ability to use Rasenshurikens with clones, and I believe those clones not to be any bit weaker when forming a Rasenshuriken than the original.

So let's put it this way. Hypothetically, RS Naruto full power can throw 10 Rasenshurikens before he runs out of chakra.

He decides to make 9 clones. I.E. he divides his chakra (Not Power) by 10.

Now each clone can throw one Rasenshuriken, along with himself. Therefore, in the end, still adding up to 10 Rasenshurikens.

[TheBlackChidori]

I haven't seen him use more than one RS at the same time, though. That is my biggest argument. I've seen him use them one after another, I've seen him clone himself into one to fake out Preta path, but I haven't seen him toss multiple RS's at an enemy.

When he does that, I'll agree that he can destroy CT.

[Kuromaki]

Originally Posted by Isoteen

Do I personally believe Naruto needed help destroying the CT nucleus? Not at all, Rasenshuriken could clearly bust that on its own. It was overkill.

To be fair it tanked a 6 Tailed menacing ball, but a dozen Rasenshuriken at the same time would arguably deal more damage.

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

I haven't seen him use more than one RS at the same time, though. That is my biggest argument. I've seen him use them one after another, I've seen him clone himself into one to fake out Preta path, but I haven't seen him toss multiple RS's at an enemy.

When he does that, I'll agree that he can destroy CT.

If he has enough chakra, it should be logical enough that he can use multiple Rasenshurikens. He hasn't done it before because he never faced that type of situation where he needed (and had the chakra to) to use a lot at once.

[Isoteen]

Fair enough.

I'm all about features after all.

Also something that's bothering me with my 10 Rasenshuriken theory, once the clones are destroyed, if they did not use Rasenshurikens, does Naruto receive full power back, or more so even a high fraction of it?

From what I can recall in other battles the act of splitting his chakra by using clones quickly depleted his chakra even if he only used them with Taijutsu.

Does it split the chakra automatically once the clones are summoned? Therefore if the clones don't exert the chakra they're given before they are destroyed or dismissed, the chakra is lost anyway?

[Shikamaru Nara]

Originally Posted by megabbaut

Guys, CT isn't IC for Pain. He only uses it as a last resort. Also, prep is required to make the gravity ball.

Pain doesn't have an IC. xD

No, but really. We've only seen him bloodthirsty and angry. For all we know, it's his IC.

For example, IC Naruto doesn't use RS mode.
IC Sasuke doesn't use Susano'o.

[Isoteen]

We've seen his character manipulated through his paths.

This includes Deva Path waiting to initiate Chibaku Tensei.

Though clearly he was trying to capture Naruto, not kill him.