Spoiler Fuel for a popular theory

[EvL j3st3r]

I haven't been very active lately so if someone has already covered this......I apologize. Not trying steal anyone's credit.

Many of us feel that Tobi is still somehow Madara. I think the most popular analysis is that Tobi is a Madara clone of some sort.

I was thinking about Muu's ability to split himself in two. Now notice that When Gaara and Tsuchikage Sealed Muu....his other split half lived on in the pure world. So maybe it could work that way in a biological living subject as well.

Tobi mentioned that he wanted to "become whole again", said he was a shell of his former self. One would take this to mean he's not as powerful as he once was, that he's not capable of all the same things he once was, that a piece of him is missing. Sounds kind of like the the "split Muu" that we see in the current story line doesn't it?

We see from Tsuchikage's flashback that Madara did encounter Muu long ago when they were both living. We also know that Madara undoubtedly had the ability to copy jutsu via his Sharingan.........

IS IT POSSIBLE.........

That Madara copied Muu's technique and later split himself in two for whatever reason. One half died (current Edo Madara) and the other half lived on as a "shell of his former self" (Tobi).

[Squall]

It wouldn't surprise me that Kishi would do a full 360 and make Tobi Madara again. Up until a couple of weeks ago, it was almost somewhat confirmed that he isn't Madara, but I wouldn't be surprised that he is. Making the readers believe what they believe, only to have them astonished to hear the truth... something they all previously believed, yet let go. The works of true twists - makes it interesting.

Good point about the Madara and Muu - there would be an opportunity that Madara could have learned the splitting technique from him.

I still think he's Izuna with other people's eyes. My Hashirama assumption is gone now, that's not right.

We'll soon see mate.

[JazzJunkie4]

I too think tobi is still somehow madara. This is a possible theory as I see it. Although, I feel like somehow tobi was working alongside madara for a while before his death. I think madara is some other kind of clone, but this does make sense of that whole "become complete" rant.

[Kyūbi no Yōko]

But Tobi wouldn't be so afraid of his other DEAD-HALF so much( Tobi pissed his pants when he saw the 6th coffin ).

[Kono Yo no Kyūseishu]

Originally Posted by Kyūbi no Yōko

But Tobi wouldn't be so afraid of his other DEAD-HALF so much( Tobi pissed his pants when he saw the 6th coffin ).

I agree,put he didnt pissed his pants,i mean he didnt scared....he SHOCKED.

And he said ''Where did u get this''...Maybe he was looking for him first... and he shocked that kabuto found him..
That make sense.Nc theory

>MADARA COPY MUU TECHNIQUE
>MADARA'S 1 HALF FIGHT HASHIRAMA AND DYING COPYING HIS TECHNIQUES
>TOBI=MADARA'S SECOND HALF
>TOBI SEARCHING FOR HIS OTHER HALF(MADARA DEAD BODY)
>KABUTO FOUND HIM FIRST
>TOBI SHOCKED WHEN HE SAW THIS
>TOBI PLAYING EASY STYLE ''HE WAS LAUGHING LATER LIKE HE IS NOT SCARED
>TOBI WILL PLAY FUN OF KABUTO AND CAPTURE HIS OTHER HALF TO ENVOLVE WITH HIM TO TAKE ALL THE POWERS
>TOBI'S PLAN DESTROYED AS SOON AS HIS OTHER HALF BEING REVIVED AND HE CANT ENVOLVE
>KABUTO OR MADARA(DONT REMEMBER WHO)SAID TOBI'S PLANS IS NOT ACCORDING AS HE WANTED..
>MEANING KABUTO KNEW ABOUT THIS
>KABUTO IS WITH MADARA ET NOW...TOBI IS AGAINST THEM
>TOBI WILL TRY TO KILL KABUTO SO ET MADARA DIE.AND THEN HE WILL AGAIN ENVOLVE
>NARUTO SHOWS UP (BATTLE BEGIN)....
..........THAT'S WHAT I BELIEVE...

[medlnic15]

Nice theory. Very possible.

[Kyūbi no Yōko]

Originally Posted by Kono Yo no Kyūseishu

I agree,put he didnt pissed his pants,i mean he didnt scared....he SHOCKED.

He literally pissed his pants he was both shocked and scared cause with ET Madara Kabuto was in advantage

[EvL j3st3r]

I don't believe he was afraid of the summoned Madara. He was shocked that Kabuto managed to find his remains. I do imagine he felt unnerved by it tho, since kabuto having revived the soul would be a very significant event to Madara....it derails his whole strategy. So it still fits with my theory.

@ Jazz.....I imagine they did work alongside one another, I'm not saying he split at his dying moment. I think he split well before that for some reason I can't put my finger on.

@ medlnic15 and other guy with the jacked up name I can't spell.............thanks for the good feedback.

[kalmeast]

^ that gives both Madara and Tobi the right to say that the Rinnegan belonged to them in the first place

+ kishi doesn't show a technique like muu's split for no reason...
that's a good one..

[EvL j3st3r]

bump. sorry, just wanted to allow this to have a few more views.

[kalmeast]

ok... so of course Tobi = Madara cannot be ruled out.

Now if it was a split it would mean that Tobi should be made of the exact same physical composition as Maddy.
so far, tobi is the exact same weight as Izuna but 0.2cm taller. As we know, Izuna and Madara are so much similar so Madara should be around the same weight and height as Izuna and Tobi isn't far from that preposition at all. So i wouldn't discount him.

It seems like Madara has Hashi's Tissue around his chest area (check it out @ chp 561 pg 9) He yanked his shirt to look at his body just after kabuto mentions Hashi's powers... So if that's the case, Tobi must also. that would mean the gooey right arm of tobi isn't the source of hashi's powers then.

Back on topic... if he split himself, that'd mean his soul was split along with it correct? otherwise, Kabuto won't be able to still control Muu if the split half took all the soul along with it? since the ET technique is bound to muu's soul.

Now let's go deep into the case
i. at what point did Madara perform the split...(definitely not against hashirama otherwise he wouldn't have known Nagato).

ii. Did Madara perform the split after awakening the rinnegan, (then shouldn't Tobi automatically have had the Rinnegan too like his other half)?

iii. Could Madara had performed the split before awakening the rinnegan? If he awakened the rinnegan after splitting into two, then his second half (TOBI) should be able to awaken the rinnegan with ease just like the other half did.

what do you think? these are just some questions that popped out, i'm sure u'd have thought of some answers i haven't quite figured out yet but yes, i like this theory.

[Kono Yo no Kyūseishu]

I agree with the iii.

I can say his is not his half,but better a part of him.

Nc theory.

[UchiHa_AsH]

nice theory

[EvL j3st3r]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

ok... so of course Tobi = Madara cannot be ruled out.

Now if it was a split it would mean that Tobi should be made of the exact same physical composition as Maddy.
so far, tobi is the exact same weight as Izuna but 0.2cm taller. As we know, Izuna and Madara are so much similar so Madara should be around the same weight and height as Izuna and Tobi isn't far from that preposition at all. So i wouldn't discount him.

where did this info come from? databook?

It seems like Madara has Hashi's Tissue around his chest area (check it out @ chp 561 pg 9) He yanked his shirt to look at his body just after kabuto mentions Hashi's powers... So if that's the case, Tobi must also. that would mean the gooey right arm of tobi isn't the source of hashi's powers then.

hmmmmmm...... ^ this could mean something.

Back on topic... if he split himself, that'd mean his soul was split along with it correct? otherwise, Kabuto won't be able to still control Muu if the split half took all the soul along with it? since the ET technique is bound to muu's soul.

correct. that is my analysis as well. Also, tobi couldn't have lived on without a soul.

Now let's go deep into the case
i. at what point did Madara perform the split...(definitely not against hashirama otherwise he wouldn't have known Nagato).

This is difficult bc the timeline is so vague. they actually could have split in the fight against Hashirama. Madara admitted he survived that fight so it's not ruled out that the split happened then. He still would have lived on to meet Nagato. It could have happened any time between his first encounter with Muu's technique up to the moment of Madara's death which was sometime during Nagato's life. So that's a pretty broad window.

ii. Did Madara perform the split after awakening the rinnegan, (then shouldn't Tobi automatically have had the Rinnegan too like his other half)?

This is up in the air as well. Muu is our only example. All we know is that the split half of Muu we see currently has less chakra and cannot use dust element. However, we have no evidence to indicate what the other half of Muu could do since he was sealed immediately after splitting. We don't know that the other half can't use dust element. Maybe they can each use different techniques from the other, or maybe it's not a 50/50 split. Could be that one half is simply more powerful than the other. So if Madara had Rinnegan when he split, we have no evidence to suggest that one should be capable of everything the other is.


iii. Could Madara had performed the split before awakening the rinnegan? If he awakened the rinnegan after splitting into two, then his second half (TOBI) should be able to awaken the rinnegan with ease just like the other half did.

Pretty much the same answer as above. Rinnegan may have awakened after the split, but that doesn't have to mean that Tobi is capable of the same thing. There power could be different........hell, their DNA may even be slightly different for all we know. Maybe that's why Muu couldn't use Dust element. Incorrect DNA = no KG.........which come to think of it...........that could also explain why Tobi seemingly can't deactivate his dojutsu. Maybe the half that is Tobi did not have the correct DNA to have the Uchiha's natural dojutsu. When his other half died, and remerging was no longer an option, he had a transplant to reaquire Sharingan. (off subject.......one of those transplanted eyes being Obito's, explaining the similarity in his and Kakashi's S/T Jutsu).

what do you think? these are just some questions that popped out, i'm sure u'd have thought of some answers i haven't quite figured out yet but yes, i like this theory.

/green

[paradigm1977]

If this is the true theory, and I the shell of my former self is a very big booster, the rinnegan was definitely awakened after the split.

Madara said he awakened the rinnegan shortly before his death. His death came after knowing Nagato as a "brat." Nagato is close to but older than Minato. Since Nagato was Jiraiya's first student.

And that of course, was long after the fight with Hashirama.

BUT, while I like the theory, I don't agree with one thing these have in common. Too many people say that the split was vs. Hashirama, really because there are no other good events we know of where he might use it.

But I think it is more logical to not split, because at 100%, you are at your most likely to win. You take aware from yourself and you risk your life. Madara by himself can watch and learn Hashirama's techniques. It's too risky and not worth it. ONLY, if he underestimated Hashirama, would this even be close to reasonable strategy in a serious match against the leader of the Senju.

[JashinSama]

I could definitely see Naruto and Sasuke teaming up to kill Tobi + Madara as their complete self.