Spoiler WHY Major Character's Must Not Die Yet ; contrary to popular demands (Case For Kishi)

[Super Sanin 3]

I'm sure Kishi was trying to point out Kakashi's skills, but to Pre-Skip characters too
Don't really like the "Naruto said it but he doesn't know anything" logic, he's just trying to show us through Naruto

[Wind Style Naruto]

Originally Posted by J-Sun Tasogare

Nope he said he was smarter than Shikamaru.

Gaara does have the strongest shield.

Yeah by the same guy who thought using Rasengan on Nagato who he knew can absorb Ninjutsu was a good idea.

Gaara?? He has the best shield IMO but not the strongest....With ultimate defenses like Itachi's Yata Mirror and the 3rd Raikage's Raiton Armor reinforced iron body.

[White Zetsu]

read my comment j-son

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Originally Posted by Wind Style Naruto

Yeah by the same guy who thought using Rasengan on Nagato who he knew can absorb Ninjutsu was a good idea.

That was for comic relief. Naruto found out how to find Nagato, kill the 3rd Raikage, and get past Pain's five sec interval.

Edit: I edited my post.

[Wind Style Naruto]

Originally Posted by J-Sun Tasogare

That was for comic relief. Naruto found out how to find Nagato, kill the 3rd Raikage, and get past Pain's five sec interval.

Edit: I edited my post.

Point but Naruto is battle smart but that smart.

Plus that was from Naruto's perspective. If Kakashi was so smart he should've been the one who came up with a plan to defeat Hidan and Kakuzu not Shikamaru(who did it by himself while playing a game of Japanese chess) hell even Shikamaru was able to make last minute adjustments with Kakashi joining their team.

[Super Sanin 3]

The comparisons are all Pre-Skip

[Squall]

Originally Posted by Squall

**eats popcorn**

Is the intermission coming up yet? My debating reading skills are declining....either that or I'm getting less 'intelligenter' by the minute reading Skyfire's essays.

Originally Posted by Wind Style Naruto

*Grabs popcorn*

Man this is mad fun to watch. Both sides are getting nowhere. I pulled out long ago. Team Kishimoto should just pull out too and let FFS just wallow in his ego and broken pride and troll logic.

Get your own popcorn thief! ^^ Sheesh!

[Wind Style Naruto]

Originally Posted by Super Sanin 3

The comparisons are all Pre-Skip

Naruto even said Kakashi had a better sense of smell over Kiba although Naruto never seen Kiba in action after the Time skip yet and over the time skip Kiba's sense of smell improved the point that he has a better nose than any ninja hound in existence(maybe Kiba was just getting cocky but Kakashi did say like Shino, Kiba is a child prodigy of his clan).

Originally Posted by Squall

Get your own popcorn thief! ^^ Sheesh!

Sorry

[Super Sanin 3]

Naruto even said Kakashi had a better sense of smell over Kiba although Naruto seen Kiba in action after the Time skip and over the time skip Kiba's sense of smell improved the point that he has a better nose than any ninja hound in existence(maybe Kiba was just getting cocky but Kakashi did say like Shino, Kiba is a child prodigy of his clan)

Didn't he meet with Kakashi before Post-Skip Kiba? Remember kid Kakashi still used his smell

[Wind Style Naruto]

Originally Posted by Super Sanin 3

Didn't he meet with Kakashi before Post-Skip Kiba? Remember kid Kakashi still used his smell

Sorry mistake. I fixed it now.

[Super Sanin 3]

oh okay :o

Plus look at 271/18 Kakashi says himself he has a brain like Shikimaru :P

[J-Man]

Originally Posted by Flying Fortress Skyfire

Yeah, that's what I thought. Too scared, I suppose.

This conversation is now about Jiraiya's superiority to every other Konoha-ite.

How superior is he? Let me count the ways.

He's plainly smarter than Shikamaru. In his fight against Pain he was able to deduce Pain's abilities and fight effectively against multiple Paths, even if it was all for naught. And when he died, he left a secret message for Naruto and Konoha to help the fight against Pain. So he's so smart he contributes from beyond the grave.

He's rich, on account of writing the Icha Icha series. Probably more so than the Hyuugas.

He's got more skeelz than even Kakashi can shake a stick at.

And of course, he's got the most experience, saving Tsunade. Though probably even her since he probably stayed in the ninja biz longer than her.

He can summon the great Gamabunta, pimpingest of all toads.

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[Bacon]

God all the good topics are about naruto. ._.

Guess I'll peruse this when I have time. I was merely compelled to post this because it seems far too deep to be about naruto. I mean, what exactly has occurred in the last two years that has surprised anyone?

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

There's no real depth unless you count the depths of Jiraiya's badassedness.

[LMAO]

Originally Posted by Vornmusion

Forgoing depth and emotional value for the sake of "art" and overly grandiose romanticizing of character death is what happens when writers of talent forget to check their ego. A good writer doesn't need to force the emotion on the reader. A good writer provokes the emotion from the reader. It's also tied in with a concept Kishi has very little understanding of--subtlety.

And no one is impatient. Naruto has been going on for 12 years and not one of the main cast has died. The closest person to being a main character that died was the J-Man. Not killing important people off creates emotional detachment to their relevance. Kishi has already ruined himself by waiting this long, anything now is simply last minute patches, and not killing any of the main cast off will look just as bad. J.K fell into this trap with her final book when she killed off a large portion of the main cast simply because she didn't have the spine to do it before. Critically this was frowned down upon, it's an insult to the reader and the story.

It's all really irrelevant anyways, Naruto isn't special and has left no impact because Kishi lacks the ability to write his manga in that fashion. In 20 years it will not be remembered as a timeless classic like Akira or any other legend of manga is. Classics have depth and emotional meaning, they almost universally talk of the nature of humanity and many of what it encompasses. Most of the time, it's simply the writer using art as the medium in which to send their message about some issue with humanity, be it culturally or socially. Classics set themselves apart by doing it with class and emotion that the reader can connect too, especially with relevance to the real world.
All Naruto does is preach about unrealistic friendship with unrealistic people having unrealistic emotions. With a dash of free will Vs. fate thrown in, which carries no weight whatsoever since Kishi completely destroyed anything and everything about that when he made the prophecy child plot device.

Naruto is average at best, as is Kishi. There's nothing wrong with that since the standard for manga is already bottom tier in the literary world. Let's not even try and pretend Naruto is something special in the medium of literary art though. And as far as visual art goes, Naruto is one of the poorest manga I've seen. Hint to Kishi: shading and depth perception, learn it.

Are you a real fan of Naruto?

I mean you must not read/watch much if you're saying something like that...

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

I'm not seeing how having read Naruto somehow prevents one from forming a negative opinion of it. Either way, we're discussing Jiraiya's superiority to every other Konoha-ite, especially Shikamaru, not whatever Vornmusion was talking about.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Flying Fortress Skyfire

Danzo was one-dimensional, but his desire to kill Sasuke does exclude him from being trash in my book. :P

Danzo actually was an interesting character. His desire to protect Konoha, even if that doesn't necessarily extend to the people in it, was far more interesting than Madara's I WANNA RULE THE WORLD! plot-line. But then at the last second Kishimoto had him act out of character and be unwilling to sacrifice himself in spite of his previously held views so that he could make Sasuke look better.

Danzo isn't one dimensional.

Danzo starts off as being this mysterious figure who opposes the First Hokage, The Third Hokage and Tsunade. Danzo is a militant who thinks
those three are pacifists.

Danzo's talk with Sai Shaft shows that he thinks emotions cause conflict.

Danzo sends Sai Shaft on a (fake) mission to team up with Orochimaru.
Yamato and friends suspect that Danzo is trying to destroy the village
and then take over. Later Jirayia also expects a coup d'etat from Danzo.

Sai Shaft's true mission is to kill Sasuke. Sasuke is a threat to the village and needs to be destroyed. Danzo is cruel but it's for the good of the village.

Pain Invasion. Danzo kills the messenger frog so Naruto isn't recalled
and captured. (Of course Naruto arrives anyways. ) Danzo is calculated.
Danzo does not hope that Naruto will have learned Sage Mode and be
able to beat Pain like Tsunade does. Also during Pain Invasion Danzo
hides underground and tells Foundation not to help so that Tsunade
will exhaust herself trying to protect the village. Danzo explains
that Tsunade will save the majority but that there will be sacrifices.
These sacrifices are necessary for Danzo to become Hokage.
Danzo is power hungry and he doesn't seem to care much for the
individual.

Kage Summit. Danzo becomes Hokage and we see a more impatient
side from Danzo when Danzo explains that all the previous Hokages
were the cause of the mess and actually they were. Danzo
is an opportunist. He became Hokage because Tsunade screwed up.
Though that's probably the only way he could become Hokage since
someone like him who as Sai Shaft says protects the village using
heavy handed methods would not be very popular.

After Danzo reveals his Shisui Sharingan he eliminates some assassin
ninjas from the Woods Country. Danzo explains that in the past it
was a honor to not be known. But now times are changing and it
is important to control both the underworld and the seen world.

At the Kage Summit Danzo uses Shisui's eye on Mifune to unite
the Ninja World. Danzo's reasoning is that the end justifies the means
and that there's no time for debate. Note that while the Kages disagreed
with Danzo they ended up agreeing to his plan once Madara appeared.

Danzo vs Sasuke. Danzo says that he has to live because he thinks
he is the only one who can protect the ninja world. It makes him
sound a bit arrogant. But later Danzo sacrifices himself to try and
stop Sasuke and Madara once and for all. Although Danzo fails it
shows that Danzo does indeed practice what he preaches about
self sacrifice.

Danzo is far from being one dimensional.

[UchiHa_AsH]

Originally Posted by Flying Fortress Skyfire

Then he's doing a piss-poor job of it. Jiraiya's death? Not emotional. Minato and Kushina's deaths? Not emotional. Hiruzen's was kinda emotional(key word kinda) if you squint a little, but that was probably more by accident than design.

Itachi's death was complete horseshit.




None of whom are even remotely close to major characters outside of Jiraiya who is the J-man. They were shallow, one-dimensional garbage that Kishi made no real attempt to flesh out.



If you can't recognize quality like DB, you'll never see that Kishimoto's a hack so you might as well stop now.

And yet, still better than Naruto. Fancy that.

No, they emphasize the parts of society where you can accomplish anything as long as you're related to famous people and/or good looking.

Overcoming obstacles and having everything handed to you on a silver platter are not the same thing.



No it doesn't. 99% of the villains in Naruto are evil because they want to be, not because "MY PARENTS ARE DEAD BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW"

Orochimaru and Nagato leaned in the direction you're suggesting at first, but when push came to shove they both failed to pass the buck and Kishimoto immediately killed them off in a completely absurd way.

Sir the ammount of stupidity you have spoken in that post is over 9000... my knowledge of Naruto has drasticly dropped and you should seriously read the post below |
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ˇ

Originally Posted by Rasen_Chidori

Congratulations, you've just earnt the award for sarcastic tosser of the day. Any valid point you might have made will be out and out ignored because anyone reading your post will dismiss you as the rampant knob you are and would be forgiven for wanting to powerbomb your face into the nearest bollard.

This post has made my day... thousand fold... epic.. =D

Originally Posted by Vornmusion

Not that I mind though. Just wanted to post that, been a while.

Indeed.

[Bacon]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

We have a lot of people complaining about why Kishi isn't killing off major characters...
well, i wonder how many artist there are among "you"...to understand what it means to create something as valuable and destroying it without much of a substantial reasoning... doing it for the sake of requirement (in this case WAR) won't suffice.
Before reading, Keep in mind that Naruto Manga is an "art work" - a masterpiece!


* Yes! in a war, there should be major casualties. I agree. But this impatience is unjustified, especially since we don't know how many more chapters there are.
Whether a Major character dies now or later is absolutely relative - In a war requiring say 150 more chapters (3 years from today's chp 557), verses that requiring say 50 more chapters would have different approaches to the frequency of major deaths, correct...?

** The Death Of a major Character Needs just as much development as the intro to the characters when we first met them
The Major Naruto character's have been so highly developed that killing them off would require just as much effort as creating them - A fare-well should be presented in the highest order of creativity that should carry both nostalgia and an endless feeling of sadness and distraught...in the likes of Asuma, Hiruzen, Jiraiya, and sometimes Nagato and Deva Pein. Such feats are difficult to accomplish and needs time to develop. NOT in the current moment of war when there's too many DIFFERENT battles happening at once. An attempt to do so in the mist of this chaos would create an imbalance in harmony and pace - possibly leading to sloppiness and misfeasance. The many DIFFERENT battles need to narrow down first.

***The Death of any major character equals an end to a piece of "artwork".
Understanding what it means to create and destroy would bring anyone into terms with Kishi's current decisions. Kishi like any great artist places fans and patrons (in Kishi's case, Editors) as secondary (as he was even shocked Naruto was popular in North America).
Kishi isn't doing this for you or me but for himself. He is creating a masterpiece that will be unparalleled now and eternally to any manga of its kind - in terms of intensity, plot and massiveness of content. Creating plot for a war with so many known shinobi and variety of jutsu that are all explained is no joke. He is insane already for attempting this. With all this comes amazing characters with their individual personality, back stories and above all unique jutsu. Killing off even one of them must be painful indeed...so much that he sometimes has to bring them back. For this matter, consider the artist and understand that it has to take a little more than a mere consequence of war to destroy one of these "art pieces"... I don't oppose killing them off - it's necessary - but it must be done in a majestic/effect manner, not what some people are proposing.

****Too Many knots to tie; Little time for Death development of Major Characters at this moment.
The Pace as which Kishi is working is incredible. It could break down most people... This war needs to come into focus and all the different subject of the series need to be harmonize... Let me remind us about the different subjects of the series of which taking ONLY one of these would be enough to make a successful manga in itself.
- There's Uchiha Massacre with Itachi/Sasuke & hate, intertwined with Naruto trying to save his friend who's gone rogue.
- There's the Rikoudo Sage who's decision has "spawn" rivalry between two groups, Uchiha and Senju of which two best friends belong to either of the two sides
- There's the Kuubi, (evil) sealed within a guy who wants to be acknowledged and overcome difficult huddles to accomplish this.
- There's the guy usurping (or not) someone else's character who was once despised by his own and has supposedly lived over hundred years and seeks revenge on the world...(this too is a fine story on it's own).
- And many more...
But no, kishi is combining all these into one story and when it's getting to the peak of it, instead of harmonizing all these different issues, some people are only concerned with "Major" death counts.
(see, i'm not taking shots at any body)

Let's appreciate the work rather than throwing off mindless opinions like "ordinary" people do. And have faith in the artist rather than the art...knowing that he wont disappoint us...So yes, killing off major characters is inevitable and important but must be done in the artists' own time...

First purple point:So there isn't enough time to create a death scene for a major character? I agree you with on that point, killing them off with such a rapid pace would indeed seem like faulty writing. But over the years, kishi has had more than enough times to decimate the main cast. Decimate doesn't mean to utterly destroy,but rather pick off a certain percentage of them.

Mind you,there were so many times some of the memorable characters could have died. I find it rather foolish to think asuma died to hidan because no one helped him in that one instance, yet for 9 out 10 situations someone always comes to the rescue of another.

• Sakura could have died in 484
• Shikamaru could have died when he fought hidan/ kukazu the second time
• Rock lee could have died when he fought kimmimaro in the first part of naruto
• Naruto could have died when he fought sasuke(WHAT? LET THE BAD GUY WIN AND LEAVE THE PLOT UP IN THE AIR?)
• Heck, he could have left konoha dead after shinra Tensei,but he just had to make nagato(Or whatever his name was) a god of sorts.

Second point: This should have gone hand in hand with the first.

Third point:I'd have to disagree with you on your third point, there are hardly any characters with much depth. As my English teacher once told me about Shakespearean characters, there are flat and round ones. Flat characters are single minded, lacking depth and round are more relateable because they seem more alive, with their depth.

When it comes to the naruto series, hardly anyone has depth. Even the main character, who the world revolves around has very little to his personality. IF he was truly a round character, he would have changed his stance on sasuke, instead of being a foolhardy ninny looking to save him. Especially when sasuke not only tried to kill sakura, but he has committed many acts of treason as well. This goes without saying, but besides naruto there is virtually no development of any other character.

There were hints of it for certain people,but they disappeared. In fact, it was the chunin exams which really defined the series. It was where the series really won me with such a colorful and varied cast. But most of the appeal was shallow and short lived because they floated away with the wind,never to be developed upon again. I'd love to learn more about shikamaru,choji,hinata,lee in a good way. But sadly that is an impossibility.

But more to the point, my take on killing off characters is above.^^^ I just wanted to point out how there is no depth in his characters.

Last point: More pieces to the puzzle doesn't make the series better. IN this case, I'd take quality over quantity. Sure he's made a pretty elaborate story,but his execution is too long winded and pretty faulty for that matter.

[JashinSama]

Originally Posted by Jakropha

Sadly, I agree with Vorn more than Kalmeast

Kishi has blown this off for too long.
And he just ruined it basically.

It hasn't even been 2 days in the war.