Spoiler WHY Major Character's Must Not Die Yet ; contrary to popular demands (Case For Kishi)

[Rasen_Chidori]

Originally Posted by Flying Fortress Skyfire

Gaara needs to die to stop the Mizukage and to prevent Kishimoto from pulling anymore bullcrap like the sand actually being his mother and not a side-effect of being a demon host.

Besides that, it's obvious he won't be getting any more of what passes for character development in Naruto. Better to quit while he's ahead and have at least one character left with some small shred of dignity.






Do you have anything significant to contribute other than whining because you can't accept the fact that I'm right?

Contribute? Probably not, considering that my main motivation for responding to you in the first place is to brighten up this otherwise exceedingly dull friday morning for a few kicks.

Having said that it's still nice that a few people agree with me regardless

I can't accept that you're right? You're only right in your little narrow minded world not everyone is going to share your view of what makes a good story, just because you say it doesn't make it the ultimate truth

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

Originally Posted by JazzJunkie4

You say "truth" like there is truth in literature.

You say "You say "truth" like there is truth in literature." like there isn't truth in literature.

Truth is some works are terrible and some works are good. If you don't think a plainly good work is good then you're wrong. Like I said, opinions can be wrong. The idea that they can't be was fabricated by idiots who don't want to admit to being wrong.

The fact that you disagree with me itself proves that you are right and I am wrong and just don't want to admit it.

Fixed that for you. No need to thank me.

I also corrected a minor grammar snafu. Again, no need to thank me.

I think plenty of things about naruto that just aren't true.

Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

blahblahblah useless wall of text about opinions

Heard it all before, Sally. It was wrong then and it's wrong now.

[White Zetsu]

but youre saying a work is bad, not good. besides, the short stories they make you read in middle school english are bad. not naruto. its not the best manga ever written, but it is up there.

[Kuromaki]

Originally Posted by Rasen_Chidori

Now you've moved from tosser to dickhead and a presumptuous dickhead at that. I didn't mention anything about being a 'Narutard' I merely pointed out the fact that your moronic sarcasm dissolves much of whatever point you're trying to make

Is that the way a member of the month talks? Lol I'm just saying I'm not trying to start anything here.

Originally Posted by Super Sanin 3

Anyways, which characters do people wish to die in Naruto?

Kakashi and Hinata should've died back when Pain destroyed Konoha, and it was dumb that Kishimoto decided to have Nagato do a heel face turn and revive everyone. Onoki should've been shot for real back when he killed the clam, it's like he got an easy way out -_-

Edit: Wow okay go ahead totally ignore my post just calling you out, just know that you're setting a great example there.

Edit edit: I hate typos.

[Squall]

**eats popcorn**

Is the intermission coming up yet? My debating reading skills are declining....either that or I'm getting less 'intelligenter' by the minute reading Skyfire's essays.

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

Flatterer.

[JazzJunkie4]

Originally Posted by Flying Fortress Skyfire

You say "You say "truth" like there is truth in literature." like there isn't truth in literature.

Truth is some works are terrible and some works are good. If you don't think a plainly good work is good then you're wrong. Like I said, opinions can be wrong. The idea that they can't be was fabricated by idiots who don't want to admit to being wrong.

You don't understand. Fiction is subjective right? Yes. So if I give my opinion on the value of what I may find in such literature than it is not relevant to anything non subjective. Therefore it doesn't have truth. HOWEVER, if you and I are staring at a white wall and one of us says it is white and the other says it is red..... one of our opinions is wrong.

That being said you're opinion on value in subjection is no more right than my opinion on subjection (subjection being content in naruto in this case). In other words you are wrong in assuming that one can have false claims of value or right claims of value in fictional literature. I hope you understand this by now because you're previous posts say otherwise.

EDIT: Really..... you changed what I wrote in you're reply, do you really think that proved you're point ....... I'm not sure how to deal with this level of immaturity to be honest. You have to be trolling (I called it) because I really can't imagine anyone being this foolish.

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

I think the best part of all this is that Team Kishimoto is not actually trying to debate against my point of view, all they're doing is whining about how I'm mean and opinionated.

So when they actually manage to gather together the cojones to try that I'll be happy to oblige unless I just don't feel like it. Until then I'll just watch and laugh.

But before I go:

Originally Posted by JazzJunkie4

Blahblahblah

I refer you to my previous statements and leave you to determine that you are, in fact, wrong. Should you be unwilling to admit it I will completely understand.

[White Zetsu]

SSF you really are a pile of contradictions arent you??

[Wind Style Naruto]

Originally Posted by Flying Fortress Skyfire

Killing villains and fodder is not the same thing as killing main characters. Or even named characters.

Oda and Kubo kill off nameless mooks and Kubo kills off villains left and right but, a failing that all three share, very few good guys have ever died.

Kishimoto has killed off more good guys than Oda(1, that I can think of off the top of my head) or Kubo(0, zip, nadda) has, but quantity < quality. Whitebeard's death was extremely significant and a major plot point. Everyone in Naruto just died because they were no longer useful to Kishi. Their deaths had no meaning and contributed nothing to the storyline.

Now your just trolling.

If Jiraiya never died then Naruto would've never had fought Pain and that whole moment in the Pain Invasion arc wouldn't mean jack.

If Hiruzen never died Tsunade wouldn't have never become Hokage.

If Chiyo never gave her life, then Gaara would still be dead and everything concerning Gaara would've never had happened.

Whitebeard's death though very impactful and epic didn't change or affect the plot. The Straw Hats are still looking for One Piece regardless Whitebeard died or not or even existed at all the plot is still the same when the series first started but more powerful enemies. Ace's death had more affect than that.

...waiting for an response.

[Vornmusion]

Not that I mind though. Just wanted to post that, been a while.

[White Zetsu]

1 Dice Roll *troller

this guy just is a troller, who doesnt like naruto.

[Rasen_Chidori]

I think the best part of all this is that Team FFS (From here own dubbed 'Team Retard') can't find any other method of debate besides sarcasm and endlessly stating their own opinion like it's the only one that matters

Ok, waiting for a reply now.

Go Team Retard!

[J-Man]

._. so now its okay for me to call people dickheads and retards its official!

[White Zetsu]

funny R_S. true though, he is a narutard. or not actually just a tard.

[JazzJunkie4]

Originally Posted by Flying Fortress Skyfire

I think the best part of all this is that Team Kishimoto is not actually trying to debate against my point of view, all they're doing is whining about how I'm mean and opinionated.

So when they actually manage to gather together the cojones to try that I'll be happy to oblige unless I just don't feel like it. Until then I'll just watch and laugh.

But before I go:



I refer you to my previous statements and leave you to determine that you are, in fact, wrong. Should you be unwilling to admit it I will completely understand.

Well that settles it then, you're just simply an idiot.

[Wind Style Naruto]

Originally Posted by Vornmusion

Not that I mind though. Just wanted to post that, been a while.

Its okay Vorn. You tried to express your own views on something. You just wanted to tell people how you felt but sometimes trolls can ruin everything.

I should be apologizing to Kalmeast though.

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

Originally Posted by Wind Style Naruto

Now your just trolling.

Baseless accusations of trolling. You're not off to a good start.

If Jiraiya never died then Naruto would've never had fought Pain and that whole moment in the Pain Invasion arc wouldn't mean jack.

Yeah because who would honestly expect the bad guy and the good guy to ever meet of the field of battle. That would just be totally ridiculous. Obviously Jiraiya's continued existence was dedicated to keep an impenetrable barrier around Konoha to stop Pain from invading in seach of the nine-tails.

If Hiruzen never died Tsunade wouldn't have never become Hokage.

And that's a bad thing because...

In her tenure as Hokage Tsunade has contributed exactly jack-squat that could not have been accomplished were the Third not still alive. Oh, except for allowing Naruto to manipulate her into not putting a price on Sasuke's head.

If Chiyo never gave her life, then Gaara would still be dead and everything concerning Gaara would've never had happened.

And that's a bad thing because...

Gaara has yet to provide any contribution to the storyline beyond preventing A from killing Sasuke, which would have actually improved it.

Whitebeard's death though very impactful and epic didn't change or affect the plot. The Straw Hats are still looking for One Piece regardless Whitebeard died or not or even existed at all the plot is still the same when the series first started but more powerful enemies. Ace's death had more affect than that.

Plot and synopsis aren't the same thing FYI. "Luffy wants to be the Pirate King" was not affected by Whitebeard's death. That's the basic idea behind the series. But it isn't the plot. The plot was definitely affected. With the death of Whitebeard the entire balance of power in the world has shifted, leaving the World Government to become more proactive in addition to providing a shiny new villain to go up against who may or may not be the big bad, among other miscellaneous concerns.

Also I'm not entirely sure that impactful is a word.:P

[White Zetsu]

1 Dice Roll *FFS a Retard??

Originally Posted by Flying Fortress Skyfire

Baseless accusations of trolling. You're not off to a good start.

Yeah because who would honestly expect the bad guy and the good guy to ever meet of the field of battle. That would just be totally ridiculous. Obviously Jiraiya's continued existence was dedicated to keep an impenetrable barrier around Konoha to stop Pain from invading in seach of the nine-tails.

And that's a bad thing because...

In her tenure as Hokage Tsunade has contributed exactly jack-squat that could not have been accomplished were the Third not still alive.

And that's a bad thing because...

Plot and synopsis aren't the same thing FYI. "Luffy wants to be the Pirate King" was not affected by Whitebeard's death. That's the basic idea behind the series. But it isn't the plot. The plot was definitely affected. With the death of Whitebeard the entire balance of power in the world has shifted, leaving the World Government to become more proactive in addition to providing a shiny new villain to go up against, among other miscellaneous concerns.

Also I'm not entirely sure that impactful is a word.:P

gaaras death wouldve totally changed the story, naruto getting really angry and going four tails, at which point noone wouldve been able to stop him, because it took yamato one time, and his fathers back up another. besides, gaara is one of the main side characters, besides sasuke that has alot of impact on naruto.

[kalmeast]

@JazzJunkie4...i applaud thee...i have always found you to have understanding and put things in perspective...

@ WindstyleNaruto... good point there...

Originally Posted by Vornmusion

Forgoing depth and emotional value for the sake of "art" and overly grandiose romanticizing of character death is what happens when writers of talent forget to check their ego. A good writer doesn't need to force the emotion on the reader. A good writer provokes the emotion from the reader. It's also tied in with a concept Kishi has very little understanding of--subtlety.

First of all, you're wrong about subtlety... if kishi lacked in the concept of subtlety whether in speech, or action, we wouldn't have that much debates created out of the least hints we get.

And you wanna talk about art and emotions and depth? Art is the strongest form of conveying emotion and depth. Yes, "for the sake of art"...
(eg... Beethoven is said to be the most influential composer in history and has defined music as it is today... you know why, because unlike his predecessors, he was able to bring emotions and depth into music thus the driving force for romantic music. Think about Gothic architecture...full of emotion and depth and thus the highest form of buildings. This is Art".

FYI most classics are re-evaluated after many decades since their creation...Classics dont start out classics ok. Now, to claim kishi forces emotion on readers couldn't be more untrue...can you actually convince me that jiraiya's death and Hiruzen's sacrifice and emotions from both the series itself and the readers was forced? No, it was meaningful and provocative. "it's only in protecting something that one holds dear, that true strength is attained" is a great philosophy ok.


And no one is impatient. Naruto has been going on for 12 years and not one of the main cast has died. The closest person to being a main character that died was the J-Man. Not killing important people off creates emotional detachment to their relevance. Kishi has already ruined himself by waiting this long, anything now is simply last minute patches, and not killing any of the main cast off will look just as bad. J.K fell into this trap with her final book when she killed off a large portion of the main cast simply because she didn't have the spine to do it before. Critically this was frowned down upon, it's an insult to the reader and the story.

This is an understatement...Hiruzen was a major character...so was Jiraiya, Orochimaru (whether sealed or dead is gone). Itachi...yes he died. Bringing him back was a creative act ok... kishi ate his cake and had it back...brilliant...

It's all really irrelevant anyways, Naruto isn't special and has left no impact because Kishi lacks the ability to write his manga in that fashion. In 20 years it will not be remembered as a timeless classic like Akira or any other legend of manga is. Classics have depth and emotional meaning, they almost universally talk of the nature of humanity and many of what it encompasses. Most of the time, it's simply the writer using art as the medium in which to send their message about some issue with humanity, be it culturally or socially. Classics set themselves apart by doing it with class and emotion that the reader can connect too, especially with relevance to the real world.
All Naruto does is preach about unrealistic friendship with unrealistic people having unrealistic emotions. With a dash of free will Vs. fate thrown in, which carries no weight whatsoever since Kishi completely destroyed anything and everything about that when he made the prophecy child plot device.

To say Naruto manga doesn't have depth nor talk about the nature of humanity is such a false representation that I'd leave this for you to rectify yourself someday; seeing that Naruto was inspired by Kishi's (a realistic being), whom no one payed attention to growing up and had to work his way for acknowledgement. There couldn't be a better evidence...

You're just unsatisfied because it's not going your way...You are not the artist. Artist carry out whatever imagination to wherever it takes them...that's what makes them artists. To succumb to fan's demand, of whom most represent the mob about 86% at any given moment is the roadway to mediocrity and failure. Too bad, your way of understanding is too common.

Naruto is average at best, as is Kishi. There's nothing wrong with that since the standard for manga is already bottom tier in the literary world. Let's not even try and pretend Naruto is something special in the medium of literary art though. And as far as visual art goes, Naruto is one of the poorest manga I've seen. Hint to Kishi: shading and depth perception, learn it.

And you say Naruto will not be remember...that's very funny because it's even setting standards already...can you show me any contemporary ACTION series that has this much mystery, secrets and creative techniques like this? Has so much order (like clans, villages, types of techniques, nature type, etc...not even x-men has this much variety of techniques).


Oh, btw, i learned a lot from Naruto... if it didn't connect directly to you, you're the guy with the problem not Kishi... Now listen, I'm an architect, I work from 8 to 5...but from the rock lee episode, I understood something very important...that the most valuable part of my day is not the time I spend in office but the time I spend after work, alone, in secret, honing my skills and practicing...learning new software, drawings and such..why? because i want to be the best ok...Any great person would tell you that's what they did...
I'm not an anime watcher, but truly Naruto got me hooked, because it makes me think.