Your opinions about Islam/religion in total.

[kay]

Originally Posted by J-Sun Tasogare

@Whoever said wars were started because of Religion, that's a load of crap. Wars are started by territorial disputes, and greedy men. It has nothing to do with religion.

the crusades-religion based
the early jihads- religion based
the hollacust-religion based
slavery-somewhat religion based {the preachers told the people that the black skin is the mark of cain and so god wants them to be dhumnized.
the intifadas-religion based
9/11 religion based

and thats just of the top of my head

[deidara330]

The view against religion is similar to the view against government, IMO. Goverment is a tool, capable of doing both good and evil depending only on who wields it. Religion is the same way. When religion is used towards a purpose, whatever effect it has is dependent completely on who uses it. Religion has been used to justify war, but it can also do many positive things in people's lives. It can give people hope in a hopeless situation, give people comfort in face of the fear of death, and in some cases the very will to move on in a terrible situation is what allowed someone to survive. It's much a matter of whether or not the follower of a specific belief will use it too often to justify evil behavior that the religion itself and its respective prophet would normally never condone.

If anything, hands are the most basic tool anyone has, and they can kill given the right training. People can misuse their fists and bully others, but if we always cut off everyone's hands for it, society simply couldn't function. Religion can be used for terrible purposes, but it's not like getting rid of religion is going to be the solution to the ultimate problem, which is people who misuse the power they have.

If Islam did nothing but call its followers to violence against any non-Muslims then wars wouldn't ceace until the Muslim religion became entirely extinct, or until everyone was Muslim (which I doubt would last for long, since eliminating an entire belief system like such is pretty difficult/See "Hitler"). It's plainly obvious that no matter how frequently Islam tells its followers to be hateful idiots (which I doubt is as much as it's made out to be) there are a large number of Muslims who don't actively follow that. Besides, it's not like those parts of the Quran are the important parts. In Christianity, I do imagine as long as you don't break any of those ten commandments, and you know love other people like Jesus and stuff, you're as devout as you have to be. Similarly, I imagine the same thing goes for Islam, for which there are five pillars and none of them include "Kill the non-believers".

So basically, the best thing you can hope for if you want a better world is for everyone to stop being dumbasses.

Originally Posted by kay

the crusades-religion based
the early jihads- religion based
the hollacust-religion based
slavery-somewhat religion based {the preachers told the people that the black skin is the mark of cain and so god wants them to be dhumnized.
the intifadas-religion based
9/11 religion based

and thats just of the top of my head

The Spanish Inquisition, Witch Hunts, and a number of mass murders as well.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by sasu_girl

being christian did change who i am. i'm saying that i once was, by your definition, a christian, and now i'm not. "If you are a Christian then you believe that Christ is God. You believe that he is All powerful, All knowing, Almighty. You believe that the Bible is his word and that it too is infallible." i did believe all of that. now i don't. THAT'S how you stop being christian. whether it changed me or not has almost nothing to do with whether i still believe in supernatural things or not.

only if i believe that christ is my savoir. since i no longer partake in such a belief, he has no longer died for my sins.

you see, when your a child you have a very active imagination. i'd rather not go into detail, but i had very interesting views as a young sasu. it was the internet that helped me realize i didn't have to be trapped in the reality my mind had created, that i could be set free. case closed.
(i really don't want to get into an argument over definitions and opinions/personal beliefs =.=)

Whether or not you believe it, Christ has still died for your sins:

1 Corinthians 15: 3-4

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures

The question is why do you think He didn't die for your sins? Are you sinless? Or are you too sinful to be forgiven? Or do you believe that you are in charge of your own destiny?

Originally Posted by sasu_girl

*is going to torn apart by gama*

so is christianity. many wars started over christianity.

Specifics?

Originally Posted by kay

I have a problem with the idea of god, supposedly god created everything heaven and earth man and beast and also decides the fate of all so if thats true why even try? why even try to achive if your life's entire course has been alredy planned before you were even born? why strive to achive when god has alredy determiend who achives and who fails a thousand years ago?
god is an excuse for the lazy and a ledge for the weak god is something the weak grab on to to live through every day hardships in order to survive the illusion of god helps them move foward they belive they will eventually be rewarded 72 virgins , a tempele of gold iternal life and what not and that is why i dispize god becuase 'it' is nothing more then a scam to keep the markets runing and make the rich richer and keep everyone in line

God knows the outcome. The journey and decisions you make are still your own. God is your ultimate creator just like your parents physically created you. Neither your parents nor God is responsible for your actions or your sin.

So I am lazy? I am weak? Why do you think that you are too strong to need God? Last I checked I am in the military going to it's equivalent of an Ivy league school. The Bible advocates humility and being a servant more than anything:

1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you,

James 4:6
But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

Luke 22:26
But not so with you. Rather, let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves.

Philippians 2:5-7
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

Originally Posted by kay

the crusades-religion based
the early jihads- religion based
the hollacust-religion based
slavery-somewhat religion based {the preachers told the people that the black skin is the mark of cain and so god wants them to be dhumnized.
the intifadas-religion based
9/11 religion based

and thats just of the top of my head

Jihads: Can't argue.
Holocaust: Atheism
Slavery: Social crime present in every civilization before the modern era. People tried to justify it with religion.
Crusades: Can't be justified through Christianity. Please try to find where Christ affirms any kind of killing or hate.
Intifada: Which one was religious based?
9/11:Eh debatable but I will give it to you.

Non Religious wars:
"1.) The Seven Years’ War (Britain & France)
2.)The American Revolution
3.)The French Revolution
4.)The Napoleonic Wars (France & Europe)
5.)The Revolutions in the Americas
6.)The Wars to create and preserve the British Empire (Boer War, Irish Revolution, and the Great Game with Russia would all be examples)
7.)The American Civil War
8.)The Crimean War
9.)The Spanish-American War
10.)The Great War, The War to End All Wars, or World War I (whatever you want to call it)
11.)The Italian invasion of Ethiopia
12.)The Spanish Civil War
13.)Stalin’s invasions of Finland, the Baltic states, and Poland
14.)World War II
15.)The Chinese Revolution
16.)The Cold War, including but not limited to the Korean War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Vietnam War, the American intervention in Grenada, and the Soviet campaign in Afghanistan
17.)The Cultural Revolution in China (If you don’t want to call this a war I’ll concede it)
18.)Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge Revolution
19.)The Falklands War
20.)The Persian Gulf War between Iran & Iraq
21.)The Persian Gulf War between the United Nations and Iraq
The Breakup of Yugoslavia (beginning with Slovenia)."

[kay]

the old testement dont remmber the chapter/verse but I remmber the words sort of
" He is your sheperd and you shall follow in the footsteps he leaves for you, for in this day of the days the holy day of judgment the day that I chose to judge my chosen people I shall seal you fate both your ending and your begining both the route you take and the people you shell meet along it"
based on the old testement { same god as the new one} god seals the fate of his people deciding the route fot both and infant and an elder " he is the one that shell choose your journy and your destention" and so i retuarn to my original point if god is real then a person's life are as equaly well spent sitting on the couch waiting for his sealed fate then going to learn medicene and save lives
and I would just like to know how was the hollacust atheist iduced?

[Rasen_Chidori]

Originally Posted by Gamabunta

Most wars have been started over religion? I strongly urge you to justify that claim with concrete evidence. That was perhaps, badly worded, what I should have stated was, religion can be a strong motivation and can be used as a reason start war. Not that most have started over it or it is the main cause.

You feel you don't want religion or God controlling your life? Do you feel like you are in control right now? It's not that I don't want it controlling my life, more that I don't feel the need to have religious beliefs dictating what I should and shouldn't think and tell me how I should live my life. I am able to decide for myself what are and aren't good ways to treat and deal with the world around me.

And some people need religion? Why do they need it? Why don't others?
Because some people feel much more comfortable having something to believe in, some people need to believe that the univese is bigger than themselves and their problems and that there are real repercussions for their actions, also there are the people who have had troubled pasts who turn to religion to try find a way to guide themselves back to a more healthy way of life. Others don't need this, some people are able to find what path they want their lives to take on their own, which may or may not include religious beliefs.

There.

Normally, I try not to get into religious debates, for two reasons. First being that religion can be a touchy subject for some people and it is often better to not comment if you don't agree. Second, I think that, as a non-religious person (But not being against religion, I just prefer to live without it as I don't really see the need for it, and as I said before I don't believe in it.), I normally don't find it to be my right to tear apart or comment on, other peoples beliefs, although I don't mind sharing my opinions should someone ask me.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by kay

the old testement dont remmber the chapter/verse but I remmber the words sort of
" He is your sheperd and you shall follow in the footsteps he leaves for you, for in this day of the days the holy day of judgment the day that I chose to judge my chosen people I shall seal you fate both your ending and your begining both the route you take and the people you shell meet along it"
based on the old testement { same god as the new one} god seals the fate of his people deciding the route fot both and infant and an elder " he is the one that shell choose your journy and your destention" and so i retuarn to my original point if god is real then a person's life are as equaly well spent sitting on the couch waiting for his sealed fate then going to learn medicene and save lives
and I would just like to know how was the hollacust atheist iduced?

Please find the exact quote you are trying to reference. I think this might be it anyway which proves everyone chooses their own way:

Isaiah 53:6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,each of us has turned to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.



I would encourage you to read all of Isaiah 56. If God is real:

Isaiah 6 1-5
In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying.3 And they were calling to one another:

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by Rasen_Chidori

That was perhaps, badly worded, what I should have stated was, religion can be a strong motivation and can be used as a reason start war. Not that most have started over it or it is the main cause.

It's not that I don't want it controlling my life, more that I don't feel the need to have religious beliefs dictating what I should and shouldn't think and tell me how I should live my life. I am able to decide for myself what are and aren't good ways to treat and deal with the world around me.


Because some people feel much more comfortable having something to believe in, some people need to believe that the univese is bigger than themselves and their problems and that there are real repercussions for their actions, also there are the people who have had troubled pasts who turn to religion to try find a way to guide themselves back to a more healthy way of life. Others don't need this, some people are able to find what path they want their lives to take on their own, which may or may not include religious beliefs.

There.

Normally, I try not to get into religious debates, for two reasons. First being that religion can be a touchy subject for some people and it is often better to not comment if you don't agree. Second, I think that, as a non-religious person (But not being against religion, I just prefer to live without it as I don't really see the need for it, and as I said before I don't believe in it.), I normally don't find it to be my right to tear apart or comment on, other peoples beliefs, although I don't mind sharing my opinions should someone ask me.

First off I think I have already thoroughly illustrated the grasping at straws the religious war claims is. I ask anyone once again to find me a quote where Christ's words could be interpreted as affirmation of war.

Second you don't want religious beliefs dictating your life? Why? They are the same as all other beliefs. If you choose to believe something then it is not like it is brainwashing or forcing. You have chosen it. If I choose to be vegetarian then I am embracing not eating meat. It's not like because I call myself a vegetarian I can't eat meat, it is an action I do because I want to and I am convicted to. Anyone who has not chosen Christ and to become a Christian is not one:

Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

Romans 10:13
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

As you see it is a very personal choice to call upon God's name. It is a very person, very real action and decision.

So basically what you are saying is that I have chosen religion so that it can lead me down a certain healthy path, to guide me, or so that I don't have to feel responsible for my life? I can let you know my reasons for choosing religion has nothing to do with the religion. I don't like people usually, in or out of church. The only motivation I have had is me actually taking responsibility and recognizing that I am not perfect, that I am a sinner. God is the only one who is perfect, and he even gave us a way off our own stubborn path by paying for our sins in a perfect sacrifice.

Do you feel like you are the sole guiding light in your life? To what degree do you actually believe you are in control over your life and your surroundings?

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

For me, religion is one of few possibilities that I consider could actually give life meaning. In an empty shell of a world, nothing I do would matter.

[WeezyBaby]

I'm not gonna get into a discussion, i just wanted to drop in and say Islam is the religion that makes the most sense. You guys are all blinded by what you see on t.v etc...
Also i dont understand athiests. How are we here..there has to be meaning to everything in life.

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

There is no "true" religion.

[Bacon]

No religion is more logical than the next weezybaby, it's all based on faith.

Originally Posted by Gamabunta

Religion is a set of traditions and practices. Faith is completely different. How did Jesus change the world? He walked around with 12 dudes he pulled from work and gave people food and healed them. Even if it was the Sabbath and even if they had leprosy, and were considered community outcasts. Everyone is a hypocrite, and everyone is a sinner, those in church and those out of church:

Romans 15:12-21
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God

Romans 3:9-12
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

John 3:19
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

So let's get past looking at other people to explain our problem with God. No one else's actions can justify what you choose to believe or do.

Just a thought, would you chalk up the European and salem witch trials to John 3:19? These people who supposedly smite followed the word of god to kill the witches, aka the devil's accomplices?

[WeezyBaby]

Well ponder this. The reason i say Islam is the right religion is because..Islam has all the religions in it. Muslims believe in Jesus and Moses. They believed the Bible and the Torah came before Prophet Muhammad. So say if Christianity was true..well Muslims believe in Jesus(not as the son of God though but as a Prophet). If Judaism was right? well Muslims believe in Moses...But if Islam is right..yall goin to hell cuz none of you believed in the Last Prophet, Muhammad.

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

There is no such thing. If the higher power accepts your heart as good and pure, it doesn't matter what religion you are. This higher power is not going to not accept someone based on what their religion is. I only believe in a higher power, I believe these stories could have been made as a lesson. That any of them could have or could not have happened but that there ultimate purpose was to send that message. I do not know what happened in the past, I only know that I believe if I follow my beliefs and do not hypocrisize that I am fine no matter what religion. That said, I don't really give myself a religion. I believe in purity of the heart, not always beliefs of the mind.

[WeezyBaby]

Some people know in their hearts that Islam is right...but who wants to pray 5 times a day? who wants to fast one month a year? who wants to memorize the entire Qur'an? who wants to stay away from pork and alcohol and smoking? The only reason im muslim is because i have a strong faith in my religion. It makes sense because Islam makes you a better person. Also you here of jews and christians converting to Islam. But you dont here much about Muslims converting. Once you go Islam, you dont go back. Sorry for the poor punctuation lol, this text mad long.

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

I'm not saying I have anything against Islam, I just don't believe the personification of who you believe in is as an important as what kind of a person you are. I was not around then, so I do not how things went, I just know how I feel is pure in the here and now. Not right or wrong, but pure.

[Bacon]

Personally I don't know whether or not to say anything at this point, what's the point in conversing with a thickheaded person who talks of religion like one can be superior to the other. I might as well say," WELL CHRISTIANITY HAS THE MOST FOLLOWERS IN THE WORLD SO YOU LOSE YOU MUSLIM". Because reasoning that no religion is right or wrong, is futile.

/thread

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

Religion is like game consoles. Some may have more games that are of high quality, but they all have their gems. Even if someone doesn't recognize those gems.

[WeezyBaby]

Lol both of you calm down, i never said anything about being superior to either of you. Yall seem like good people. I dont care what your religion is.

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

I'm calm, as you saw, I said, "I'm not saying I have anything against Islam". Which basically translates to, "I have nothing against Islam". It only makes sense that if there's a religious topic that someone would state their views, correct? :P I was just stating what my beliefs are.

[WeezyBaby]

Haha well calm down was more meant to the other dude. So i dont understand your views? you believe in your own religion..like not your own religion but that there is just a higher being and that you do the right thing for the higher power? Thats respectable, if only more people thought like you. I believe kind of the same thing, i do the right thing for the higher power, but my higher power is specific its God and my religion has a name, Islam.