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Old 07-21-2011, 02:33 AM   #1
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Default I Think I Figured It Out

ok i have been rereading some and watching some of the anime.

I think i figured out Madara and maybe Zetsu.

Madara fought the 1st and most likely used Izanagi to fake his death and get away with the 1st's cells.

now Madara wants to combine the 1st's cells with his to become greater. i don't see him using himself as a test subject. Zetsu was a test subject. he either used a combine dna cocktail of his and the 1st's or he used his brother and the 1st's dna.

we have seen from Danzo that the 1st's cells can attempt to take over the hosts body. that is what happened to Zetsu. i think under that black cloth /suit we would see seals tattooed on him much like Danzo kept his arm under seals. the B Zetsu is basically the main host and the W Zetsu is the altered combo after the 1st's cells went haywire.( as much as i want to say it is Izuna i am leaning towards a grass ninja since he keeps the headband much like the rest of the Akataski do.) this is why he has some plant affinity from Senju and some type of altered Uchiha traits ( his recording ability and his chakra copying ability ). he has Uchiha / Senju combo dna.

somewhere along the line he met up with Orochimaru. he brought him into the Akataski for his help in research. i am sure this is where Oro got the 1st's dna to experiment with also. maybe the reason behind his experimentation with the babies that created Yamato? seeking a way to stabilize the 1st's dna for Madara, while creating a possible body to take over that had wood style at the same time.

this also could be why Orochimaru wanted a sharingan user. he figured out some of Madara's plans and knew Senju + Uchiha dna was a major enhancement. could be why Akataski wanted to kill Oro, because Madara thought he knew too much. remember Oro gave Danzo his arm and Madara thought since he had Senju + Uchiha he also wanted the 9 tails, and cursed Oro for it.

after Madara worked out the kinks after creating Zetsu he used it on himself. this is where the anime comes in, it helped because its in color. when the Anbu Arubame clan bodyguard infects Madara with the insects he rips his arm off. his arm wasn't bleeding. it had the same white clay-like appearance as Zetsu. i am guessing he can replace his body aparts with Zetsu pieces if need be because of similar dna composition.
( could be when he went after the 9 tails from Naruto's mom. since he had both dna now.)

also i think he couldn't implant the Rinnegan because his dna wasn't really stable enough that it would survive another chakra source. which is why when Kabuto offered to upgrade W Zetsu he let him. he than used that info on himself. this allowed him to implant the Rinnegan.

this part isn't part of the main theory, but a side thought.
a maybe as a payment to Orochimaru, Madara taught him the body switch technique? could an injured and beat up Madara have used it on his brother with his blessing? so it's a Madara body switched into Izuna? that last coffin Kabuto summoned been Madara's real body?

well just some thoughts help it along or trash it
* i want to thank ViVi on her thoughts about B Zetsu gave me some ideas*
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:53 AM   #2
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

Quote:
most likely used Izanagi to fake his death
He did use it to fake his death.
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:56 AM   #3
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

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He did use it to fake his death.
A very vague point.

Izanagi requires Senju + Uchiha DNA.
And we know Madara fought that Battle to obtain Hashirama's.

So unless Madara had a pocket Lab with him to insert them Izanagi is a no-go though it does depend on Kishi.

Anyway.
It's far from certain he used it.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:01 AM   #4
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

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Originally Posted by Vivi View Post
A very vague point.

Izanagi requires Senju + Uchiha DNA.
And we know Madara fought that Battle to obtain Hashirama's.

So unless Madara had a pocket Lab with him to insert them Izanagi is a no-go though it does depend on Kishi.

Anyway.
It's far from certain he used it.
I actualy have a post/thread proving he did use it. So let me get back to you on that because I'm heading off to bed right now.

Plus sense there is no special eye thing for it there is no way to say if he didn't all ready have it or not.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:36 AM   #5
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Exclamation Re: I Think I Figured It Out

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Originally Posted by Phariah824 View Post

Madara fought the 1st and most likely used Izanagi to fake his death and get away with the 1st's cells.

now Madara wants to combine the 1st's cells with his to become greater.


Using Izanagi requires : a sharingan user with the 1st's cells cultured within his body " how come you don't consider that a combination ?!
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:43 AM   #6
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

But since the uchiha and the Senju are relatives, wouldn't that mean he has the DNA already within him?

If anything it's not that hard to get a DNA sample from before the fight. "Hey lemme borrow your coat"

Hair Sample. Especially with the First's lucious locks.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:41 AM   #7
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

Uchiha/Senju arn't related... But we know Uzamaki are related to Senju

Nice Theory :P ****
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:05 AM   #8
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

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Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
Uchiha/Senju arn't related... But we know Uzamaki are related to Senju

Nice Theory :P ****

What?
You know both Clans are descendants of the Sage?

Senju -- Younger Son
Uchiha -- Older Son

Thus they are distantly related.

Quote:
But since the uchiha and the Senju are relatives, wouldn't that mean he has the DNA already within him?
Younger Son = Physical Energy and and Life Force
Older Son = Spiritual Energy and Eyes.

Izanagi = Yin and Yang.
Yang is the Power that forms the base for physical energy thus giving life.
Yin is the Power that governs Imagination per mental energy.

Basically we can assume that in the Senju and Uchiha hides these 2 types of Energy per DNA.

And as Generations passed their Energy vanished more and more.
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

ok.... people are getting tied up in one line, my use of izagani. fine he used a genjutsu to cover his tracks.

i still don't see why it couldn't have been an Izagani. i like the wiki's description of it tbh. (yes i know wiki isn't canon) that Uchiha could use it only briefly and that Senju dna is needed to make it complete. i mean in chap 478 Madara says it is a Uchiha dojutsu only. yet in chap 510 he says it is the SotSP's ability using both Senju/ Uchiha dna. makes me think there are greater and lesser versions.


@Devy: have a family clan they have green eyes and black hair. 2 brothers leave to form their own clans. down the line 1 clan has black hair and blue eye and the other brown hair and green eyes. they both have the same ancestor and are distantly related but differ. its about dominant and recessive genes within the dna. as to how he collected the dna. maybe he needed living tissue samples blood and such?
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

I don't think he used Izanagi. He said himself that he took Hashirama's DNA from their battle. If he already had it before hand......why would he need to take it again? and Yes, he said it's "Uchiha technique only" but that's bc Senju don't have Dojutsu. The technique does indeed require DNA from BOTH branches of the RS family tree. When he said it's Uchiha only, he was referring to Danzo who had a "mock" imitation of Izanagi at best. Without Senju and Uchiha DNA, there can be no form of Izanagi not even a weaker version bc Madara has already said you need both.
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

like i said in a previous post, there are dominate and recessive gene traits. supose some Uchiha had thier recessive Senju gene trait comes to the forefront. it does happen in real life when people get diseases that are not normally in their genetic tree. 2 people with the same recessive trait marry and have a child that recessive trait becomes pronounced. so now that Uchiha would be able to utilize Izagani in a minor form, but to use it on the level of the Sage he would need a greater Senju dna make-up.

it is feasible. and not beyond belief.

as to why he would than need to take the 1st's dna.
he finds out he has the capability to use Izagani. he feels he is destined for something greater or he read about something on the secret Uchiha tablets, maybe even both. he than starts thinking he is the next true Sage and to achieve that he needs to gain a more compatible senju dna makeup not a shadow of one. so than he comes up with the plan to get living tissue from the 1st and integrate it within himself.
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phariah824 View Post
like i said in a previous post, there are dominate and recessive gene traits. supose some Uchiha had thier recessive Senju gene trait comes to the forefront. it does happen in real life when people get diseases that are not normally in their genetic tree. 2 people with the same recessive trait marry and have a child that recessive trait becomes pronounced. so now that Uchiha would be able to utilize Izagani in a minor form, but to use it on the level of the Sage he would need a greater Senju dna make-up.

it is feasible. and not beyond belief.

as to why he would than need to take the 1st's dna.
he finds out he has the capability to use Izagani. he feels he is destined for something greater or he read about something on the secret Uchiha tablets, maybe even both. he than starts thinking he is the next true Sage and to achieve that he needs to gain a more compatible senju dna makeup not a shadow of one. so than he comes up with the plan to get living tissue from the 1st and integrate it within himself.
I'd be glad if u answered my question , Post #5 .. 'cuz I'm kinda confused.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

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Using Izanagi requires : a sharingan user with the 1st's cells cultured within his body " how come you don't consider that a combination ?!
as i stated in previous posts i believe that some Uchiha were capable of Izanagi to a lesser degree, and that the Izanagi that Madara is talking about is the one the Sage used.

as to your question i don't know what you mean by it to be honest. i never said it wasn't. i was listing a theory and at that point Madara didn't have the cells introduced into himself. i said he used them much later.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

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Originally Posted by Phariah824 View Post
as i stated in previous posts i believe that some Uchiha were capable of Izanagi to a lesser degree, and that the Izanagi that Madara is talking about is the one the Sage used.

as to your question i don't know what you mean by it to be honest. i never said it wasn't. i was listing a theory and at that point Madara didn't have the cells introduced into himself. i said he used them much later.
you said Madara is trying to combine the first's cells with his to become greater , assuming that Madara doesn't have to combine his cells with the first's to execute Izanagi because u believe that some Uchihas were capable of using Izanagi to a lesser degree.

it's originally the sage's technique so to be executed, it requires Senju cells + Uchiha cells
( Sharingan ) and not Uchiha cells only as u believe

However,let's say ur right , how do you explain the process of loosing one sharingan after each use ?

if your assumption was true , Madara would have lost his first EMS long time ago.

he may replace it with a normal sharingan , but that means he lost his 2nd EMS when he fought Konan.

while he has one EMS and one Rinnegan now !

I'm sorry .. but your theory ain't convincible
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:42 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Phariah824 View Post
like i said in a previous post, there are dominate and recessive gene traits. supose some Uchiha had thier recessive Senju gene trait comes to the forefront. it does happen in real life when people get diseases that are not normally in their genetic tree. 2 people with the same recessive trait marry and have a child that recessive trait becomes pronounced. so now that Uchiha would be able to utilize Izagani in a minor form, but to use it on the level of the Sage he would need a greater Senju dna make-up.

it is feasible. and not beyond belief.

as to why he would than need to take the 1st's dna.
he finds out he has the capability to use Izagani. he feels he is destined for something greater or he read about something on the secret Uchiha tablets, maybe even both. he than starts thinking he is the next true Sage and to achieve that he needs to gain a more compatible senju dna makeup not a shadow of one. so than he comes up with the plan to get living tissue from the 1st and integrate it within himself.
regardless, he still wouldn't have needed that DNA from Hashirama if he already had Senju DNA which he would have needed to perform Izanagi to fake his death.

and yes, I understand the concept of dominant and recessive genes. But it doesn't work that way in this story. Kishi has divided the two clans genetically. I mean you may as well say you think we'll find that someone in the Senju clan spontaneously manifested Sharingan. The power of one is not naturally available to the other.
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Old 07-21-2011, 07:34 PM   #16
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

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you said Madara is trying to combine the first's cells with his to become greater , assuming that Madara doesn't have to combine his cells with the first's to execute Izanagi because u believe that some Uchihas were capable of using Izanagi to a lesser degree.

it's originally the sage's technique so to be executed, it requires Senju cells + Uchiha cells
( Sharingan ) and not Uchiha cells only as u believe

However,let's say ur right , how do you explain the process of loosing one sharingan after each use ?

if your assumption was true , Madara would have lost his first EMS long time ago.

he may replace it with a normal sharingan , but that means he lost his 2nd EMS when he fought Konan.

while he has one EMS and one Rinnegan now !

I'm sorry .. but your theory ain't convincible
Izagani doesn't need ems eyes. Danzo used regular sharingan eyes.
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Old 07-21-2011, 08:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

Pure Izanagi is that you could create anything from imagination and make it into a reality. Ie; Thinking of a ball, you could create a ball *poof* just like that. (without losing eyesight)

All the Izanagi we have seen in the manga & anime is an incomplete form. It still makes the user invinsible for one minute, and makes the eye lose it's light immediately. This is incomplete.

SOTSP used the real Izanagi to create pretty much every jutsu, anything you can think of in the Ninja world really. he did it with his imagination.

I thought any sharingan user could use this, it's just a forbidden jutsu. It doesn't need to be with senju DNA or a MS or EMS, it's just a sharingan.

I like your thoughts Phariah, Zetsu may be heavily involved more than we think. Oro, Akatsuki, madara, even Itachi may have known...... and in the next chapter we might even learn something in addition to support people's claim..... or maybe in the next 2-3 as there is a TONNE to explain. Well done, rep upped.

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Old 07-22-2011, 04:49 AM   #18
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Post Re: I Think I Figured It Out

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Izagani doesn't need ems eyes. Danzo used regular sharingan eyes.
I dunno if u r aware of this or not but Madara starts his dojutsu attack with the regular sharingan and then he turns it to EMS ... it's the same eye but has 3 stages ,begin with the regular sharingan end with EMS.

the moral is , the EMS is not an independent eye as u think.
remember when Sasuke earned the MS .. he didn't lose the regular Sharingan.

Madara's Moon eye plan requires EMS to be executed.
so he won't waste it by using Izanagi more than one time, if he did he'd lose everything.

also I don't think that Madara has planted many regular sharingan eyes in his body like danzo did 'cuz he doesn't have to since he had the powerful EMS.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:01 AM   #19
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

Zetsu is no more than an abnormal creature. If he was a combination of Senju and Uchiha's DNA and taken over by the 1st's cell then where did his cannibalism come from? I see no connection between these details. Zetsu's being like plant may only be a coincidence.
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Old 07-22-2011, 09:45 AM   #20
THE X UCHIHA
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Default Re: I Think I Figured It Out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku.Soso View Post
Zetsu is no more than an abnormal creature. If he was a combination of Senju and Uchiha's DNA and taken over by the 1st's cell then where did his cannibalism come from? I see no connection between these details. Zetsu's being like plant may only be a coincidence.
agreed.

it's the same reason of Kisame's being a shark.
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Last edited by THE X UCHIHA; 07-22-2011 at 10:04 AM.
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