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Omniverse Anything goes in this forum. Any multiverse, any singleverse, any fight. Just know in advance that Kakashi can't beat Superman.

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Old 04-28-2013, 07:38 AM   #21
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

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Originally Posted by The Immortal Watch Dog View Post
base aizen

not condom or butterfly
None of them could really fight condom or butterfly version. Except for Shunsui, Yama, and maybe Unohara.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:51 PM   #22
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

Just letting you all know, there's not enough proof that Ulquiorra is the strongest Espada due to the fact that we know/infer only these things about his Segunda Etapa:
1. Higher reiatsu (We don't know by how much and most of the change in reiatsu is a change in density/nature rather than quantity)
2. Higher durability (based on the fact that he was higher reiatsu, but this is speculative)
3. The ability to generate Lanzas

And that's about it. Although he does have the highest destructive firepower/AoE for all we know, there's nothing suggesting that his reiatsu level surpasses that of Starrk's, or even Baraggan's.
That said, Ulquiorra cannot be on par with base Aizen in terms of reiatsu, which pretty much decides strength in Bleach unless you have the advantage of prep like Urahara or some hax ability.

I doubt that Byakuya will be a factor in this fight, but Kenpachi has the reiatsu/durability and raw power to kill Ulquiorra. The issue is Ulquiorra's flight and speed.

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None of them could really fight condom or butterfly version. Except for Shunsui, Yama, and maybe Unohara.
Shunsui and Unohana will get stomped right off the bat. Yamamoto, though, can do very well.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:06 PM   #23
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

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Originally Posted by Nigoyukai View Post
Just letting you all know, there's not enough proof that Ulquiorra is the strongest Espada due to the fact that we know/infer only these things about his Segunda Etapa:
1. Higher reiatsu (We don't know by how much and most of the change in reiatsu is a change in density/nature rather than quantity)
2. Higher durability (based on the fact that he was higher reiatsu, but this is speculative)
3. The ability to generate Lanzas

And that's about it. Although he does have the highest destructive firepower/AoE for all we know, there's nothing suggesting that his reiatsu level surpasses that of Starrk's, or even Baraggan's.
That said, Ulquiorra cannot be on par with base Aizen in terms of reiatsu, which pretty much decides strength in Bleach unless you have the advantage of prep like Urahara or some hax ability.

I doubt that Byakuya will be a factor in this fight, but Kenpachi has the reiatsu/durability and raw power to kill Ulquiorra. The issue is Ulquiorra's flight and speed.


Shunsui and Unohana will get stomped right off the bat. Yamamoto, though, can do very well.
In the bolded is the only thing that matters. He has shown an attack that casually surpassed anything the other espada has shown. Then add to the fact even before dangai Ichigo was still one of the strongest characters in the series. Unohana sealed it when she was healing his reiatsu and commented on how large his reiatsu was even when he was weak. Ichigos basic reiatsu structure was higher than hers and most likely Shunsui. Ulquiorra's power is higher than Ichigo's hence deus Machina hollow Ichigo fight was initiated. That is why he is the strongest. Casually stomping an opponent who was already more powerful than most of soul society. Including the captains.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

Kenpachi alone would die, because Ulquiorra flyss to high up and spams the crap out of Laz, Kenpachi has not shown any real extream speed feats. He wont dodge them forever.

But yes, because of the mega jump with Vasto lorde Ichigo, he have no real feats on 2nd release.
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You have a cool headed manner, and it almost appears as serious. When you're out in the games playing, you're just as serious but extremely aggressive. This is what leads the NDF football team to victory (lol in reality the team would suck ass but lets just imagine it otherwise)
You're popular and a lot of people look up to you and see you as most likely to win "Best All Around" in the yearbook. You walk into a party and everyone shouts "AYYY IT'S COLLIIIIIN" and you get attacked by high fives by your teammates and crew and hugs by desperate females. But most people don't know a lot about you personally because you don't let anyone in a lot.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:49 PM   #25
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

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Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
In the bolded is the only thing that matters. He has shown an attack that casually surpassed anything the other espada has shown.
But it's still featless. If Ulquiorra's reiatsu is below that of the other top 4 Espada, and they know the attack is coming, they can amp themselves with their reiatsu to withstand the explosion of Lanza.

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Unohana sealed it when she was healing his reiatsu and commented on how large his reiatsu was even when he was weak.
Go on....

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Ichigos basic reiatsu structure was higher than hers and most likely Shunsui.
Absolutely not. Both of them shits on Ichigo in terms of reiatsu. When Unohana realized that Ichigo's reiatsu was only at 50%, she saw Ichigo's potential, not his strength. Which is similar to what Aizen realized (who took an interest in Ichigo not because of his current strength, but because of his potential and growth rate). because he still had his hollow mask upgrades and the fact that his reiatsu fluctuates wildly according to his mindset, she came to the conclusion that Ichigo has enough power to take down Aizen. Couple that with the fact that he hasn't seen his Shikai, and Unohana assumed that Ichigo may be a 'genuine trump card."
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:49 PM   #26
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

He doesn't need feats a weaker attack of his was already powerful. The second form attacks are logically way more powerful. Bleach is all power scaling anyways.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

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Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
He doesn't need feats a weaker attack of his was already powerful. The second form attacks are logically way more powerful. Bleach is all power scaling anyways.
Still subject to the law of reiatsu. No matter what he pimps out, if Ulquiorra's reiatsu is below someone else's, that someone else can take and survive that attack.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:05 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

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But it's still featless. If Ulquiorra's reiatsu is below that of the other top 4 Espada, and they know the attack is coming, they can amp themselves with their reiatsu to withstand the explosion of Lanza.
Yeah none of the four took an attack as powerful as Lanza outside of Ulquiorra. That is feats not speculation.


Quote:
Go on....


Absolutely not. Both of them shits on Ichigo in terms of reiatsu. When Unohana realized that Ichigo's reiatsu was only at 50%, she saw Ichigo's potential, not his strength. Which is similar to what Aizen realized (who took an interest in Ichigo not because of his current strength, but because of his potential and growth rate). because he still had his hollow mask upgrades and the fact that his reiatsu fluctuates wildly according to his mindset, she came to the conclusion that Ichigo has enough power to take down Aizen. Couple that with the fact that he hasn't seen his Shikai, and Unohana assumed that Ichigo may be a 'genuine trump card."
Yeah what manga are you reading. Ichigo even without his mask has been mentioned to have reiatsu on par if not outright surpassing the captains. Outside of Yama none of the other captains reiatsu really stand out. Which is why the story kept repeatedly saying captains level reiatsu. Furthermore Ulquiorra trashed Ichigo with his hollow mask on which vastly surpassed the captains abilities. Feats Ichigo was stronger than all of the captains except Yama at the time. Keep in mind Ulquiorra raped him with his mask on at full power.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:42 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

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Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
Yeah none of the four took an attack as powerful as Lanza outside of Ulquiorra. That is feats not speculation.
YOU are the one speculating. You have no idea how powerful exactly Lanza is. You can't determine anything from its AoE, and something much more powerful than a CO that even a wounded Masked Bankai Ichigo took doesn't proving anything.
Do you even know how Bleach works? Unless you have the advantage of prep like urahara or some hax ability, Bleach battles are battles of reiatsu. Unless you can prove that Ulquiorra's reiatsu is above that of the other top Espada, they can survive the explosion.




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Yeah what manga are you reading. Ichigo even without his mask has been mentioned to have reiatsu on par if not outright surpassing the captains.
Anyone specific or are we using an "average captain" here? Because the average captain is someone with Mayuri-level reiatsu. Not impressive. The only thing we know about Bankai Ichigo, at the highest point of his reiatsu, surpasses that of base Ulquiorra. Again, still nowhere near that of Shunsui's and Ukitake's. With the mask on, his reiatsu level is still on the same level as Released Grimmjow's.



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Outside of Yama none of the other captains reiatsu really stand out.
Stand out for what?

Quote:
Furthermore Ulquiorra trashed Ichigo with his hollow mask on which vastly surpassed the captains abilities.
Lol. Shunsui could do it, Unohana could do it, Yamamoto could do it. Have you forgotten that R1 Ulquiorra's reiatsu is still well below that of Starrk's, someone who's reiatsu Shunsui's is comparable with. You act like Shunsui and the captains above him can't one-up Masked Bankai Ichigo if they want to. and the thing is that Kenpachi after he was defeated by Royd Llyod far surpassed Shunsui's reiatsu level.


Quote:
Feats Ichigo was stronger than all of the captains except Yama at the time.
What the hell are you talking about? So suddenly Released Grimmjow/Nnoitra is above Shunsui and Unohana? Shunsui who took on the Primera Espada? Unohana who casually stomped Kenpachi dozens of times? Kenpachi at that time who's vastly stronger than Nnoitra?

Quote:
Keep in mind Ulquiorra raped him with his mask on at full power.
Which means nothing seeing as he's nowhere near as strong as Kenpachi as he was fighting Yammy.

To even think that R1 Ulquiorra is far above Unohana and Shunsui is completely senile and shows an inadequate comprehension on how Bleach works.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:46 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

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Originally Posted by Nigoyukai View Post
YOU are the one speculating. You have no idea how powerful exactly Lanza is. You can't determine anything from its AoE, and something much more powerful than a CO that even a wounded Masked Bankai Ichigo took doesn't proving anything.
Actually I can aoe and blast makes up 70% of the feats in bleach. Actual destruction is hardly ever shown. That is what makes dangai and Aizen special. They have actual feats vs pretty lights. The other three espada hardly have nothing outside of barragan

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Do you even know how Bleach works? Unless you have the advantage of prep like urahara or some hax ability, Bleach battles are battles of reiatsu. Unless you can prove that Ulquiorra's reiatsu is above that of the other top Espada, they can survive the explosion.
Obviously since I just completely explained why he had a high level of reiatsu. Also so you are saying characters like Toshiro and sui feng can harm two and three but Ulquiorra can't.
Quote:
Anyone specific or are we using an "average captain" here? Because the average captain is someone with Mayuri-level reiatsu. Not impressive. The only thing we know about Bankai Ichigo, at the highest point of his reiatsu, surpasses that of base Ulquiorra. Again, still nowhere near that of Shunsui's and Ukitake's. With the mask on, his reiatsu level is still on the same level as Released Grimmjow's.
Where are you getting your facts from? What manga are you reading. Kenpachi and Byakuya two of the strongest and most noted captains were beaten by Ichigo. Definitely both above Toshiro and Sui-Feng who fought two and three. Shunsui is practically feat less outside of he fought number 1. Further more hollow mask reapers were clearly displayed to be stronger than the captains in general anyways. Making your arguments even weaker. Hence how they came in and won the fights.



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Lol. Shunsui could do it, Unohana could do it, Yamamoto could do it. Have you forgotten that R1 Ulquiorra's reiatsu is still well below that of Starrk's, someone who's reiatsu Shunsui's is comparable with. You act like Shunsui and the captains above him can't one-up Masked Bankai Ichigo if they want to. and the thing is that Kenpachi after he was defeated by Royd Llyod far surpassed Shunsui's reiatsu level.
What are you talking about? There is nothing in this story that supports that fact at all. Especially considering Ichigo was fighting evenly with Aizens top Lieutenant without his mask. The same Lieutenant that would have killed Aizen if not for being a condom.
Quote:
What the hell are you talking about? So suddenly Released Grimmjow/Nnoitra is above Shunsui and Unohana? Shunsui who took on the Primera Espada? Unohana who casually stomped Kenpachi dozens of times? Kenpachi at that time who's vastly stronger than Nnoitra?
Yeah Ichigo got stronger after Grimmjow like he always does....in every single fight....

Nnoitora fought Ichigo when he was hurt. So that is the worst example you came up with.


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Which means nothing seeing as he's nowhere near as strong as Kenpachi as he was fighting Yammy.
Lol yammy also it took kenpachi and Byakuya to defeat him. Furthermore they dusted him off.
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To even think that R1 Ulquiorra is far above Unohana and Shunsui is completely senile and shows an inadequate comprehension on how Bleach works.
I know exactly how it works straight powerscaling. Ichigo being in the lead during the latter half of the espada arc says he is stronger. You came up with your fan fic that the captains were somehow more powerful. Only Yama has clear showing of being stronger. The rest is speculation. Especially considering Ichigo did most of the work during that arc.

So chapter and page to say otherwise because I know for a fact I can support my claims. I am going to leave you with ch 382 pg 4-8. It says it all his reiatsu at half power and damaged was on par with Unoharu. This is a comparison without his hollow powers. Which he couldn't even use. Mind you this information comes straight from her. So less fan fic and straight manga support now.
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:34 PM   #31
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

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Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
Actually I can aoe and blast makes up 70% of the feats in bleach. Actual destruction is hardly ever shown. That is what makes dangai and Aizen special. They have actual feats vs pretty lights. The other three espada hardly have nothing outside of barragan
You pretty much supported my argument.



Quote:
Obviously since I just completely explained why he had a high level of reiatsu. Also so you are saying characters like Toshiro and sui feng can harm two and three but Ulquiorra can't.
No, you didn't. You didn't even mention anything about the reason why Ichigo has high levels of reiatsu.
You see, here's where you've completely misinterpretated what I'm saying. I'm saying that if Hallibel has higher reiatsu than R2 Ulquiorra, then she'll be able to survive Lanza. Not saying that she won't be harmed, but she won't go down to it, just like how Gin was able to harm Mullet Aizen and instances like that. For Hallibel to actually survive Lanza, she has to know that it's coming and prepare herself for it by amping her reiatsu. If Aizen had done that against Gin's KnY, that blade would not have cutted into him.
Toshiro never injured hallibel anyway and Baraggan tanked Soifon's Bankai (but barely).





Quote:
Where are you getting your facts from? What manga are you reading. Kenpachi and Byakuya two of the strongest and most noted captains were beaten by Ichigo.
What manga are you reading? Did you not read the Kenpachi vs Unohana fight where it was explained why Kenpachi lost? Did you not figure out that the Kenpachi that was fighting Yammy was completely different than the Kenpachi that was fighting Ichigo?

Quote:
Definitely both above Toshiro and Sui-Feng who fought two and three.
Byakuya? Obviously not. It took Byakuya high difficulty to beat Zommari, the 7th Espada. How is Byakuya planning to beat someone 3 ranks, or even 4 ranks higher than Zommari? Byakuya will get rofltstomped and blitzed should he fight a serious Hallibel and Ulquiorra.
Soifon + Omaeda may have fought Baraggan, but they didn't stand a chance in putting him down. Baraggan didn't even had to release.
Hitsugaya was getting consistently overpowered by a Hallibel who was taking the entire fight effortlessly. If she was bloodlusted, base Hallibel would have killed Hitsugaya before he even used Tenso Jurin + HH on her.



Quote:
Shunsui is practically feat less outside of he fought number 1.
So what? You act like those feats don't put him at a level far beyond Masked Bankai Ichigo. He still has his fight against Yamamoto and QMQ.


Quote:
Further more hollow mask reapers were clearly displayed to be stronger than the captains in general anyways. Making your arguments even weaker. Hence how they came in and won the fights.
And by captains, I hope you realize you mean anyone who isn't Ukitake, Unohana, Kenpachi, Shunsui, and Yamamoto, right? Because there's a clear-cut disparity in power between Post-Nnoitra Kenpachi, the weakest of the five, and R1 Ulquiorra/Masked Bankai Ichigo.

Oh and btw, only one of those Vizards even won the fights. Love and Rose got stomped by Starrk. Hiyori and Lisa couldn't do anything against Hallibel. Kensei and Mashiro got off-panneled. Shinji didn't beat anyone. The only Vizard that won was Hachigen, and that was due to Baraggan's arrogance.


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What are you talking about? There is nothing in this story that supports that fact at all. Especially considering Ichigo was fighting evenly with Aizens top Lieutenant without his mask. The same Lieutenant that would have killed Aizen if not for being a condom.
Are you talking about Gin? You mean the same Gin who was literally taking the fight casually against Ichigo. Nowhere remotely near serious at all? You mean the same Gin who Ichigo had to put his mask on just to avoid his Buto Renjin? Yeah, using Gin is a poor way to evaluate Ichigo's level.

This is no different from claiming that Urahara + Isshin + Yoruichi fought Condom Aizen pretty evenly, despite the fact that he was taking the fight effortlessly against them.


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Yeah Ichigo got stronger after Grimmjow like he always does....in every single fight....

Nnoitora fought Ichigo when he was hurt. So that is the worst example you came up with.
Omg..... do you even know what you're talking about anymore? Here's what you're saying. You're saying that Ichigo up to the point he fought Ulquiorra was stronger than any captain except for Yamamoto. Despite the fact that this is the same Ichigo who was just a tad bit stronger than Released Grimmjow. Thus, you're claiming that Released Grimmjow is stronger than Shunsui, Ukitake, and Unohana. Do tell me what Ichigo getting stronger than Grimmjow has anything to do with what I said.

Except Nnoitra is a rank above Grimmjow, who is on the same level as Masked Bankai Ichigo. Nnoitra even said that Ichigo barely beated Grimmjow and that he was even stronger than him. So no, I'm not using Nnoitra vs Ichigo as evidence at all.


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Lol yammy also it took kenpachi and Byakuya to defeat him. Furthermore they dusted him off.
Are you denying that Kenpachi, after he fought Nnoitra/while he was fighting Yammy, is far stronger than R1 Ulquiorra, considering how he got from Shikai Ichigo level to Nnoitra-level just after one defeat by Ichigo?



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I know exactly how it works straight powerscaling. Ichigo being in the lead during the latter half of the espada arc says he is stronger.
Stronger than whom?

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You came up with your fan fic that the captains were somehow more powerful.
Lol. The fact that you're denying that the seniors are on a whole other level than Masked Bankai Ichigo tells me that you've not been reading Tite Kubo's canon and read your own fanfiction version. Go read some Bleach and come back when you've got your power tiers straight.

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Only Yama has clear showing of being stronger. The rest is speculation. Especially considering Ichigo did most of the work during that arc.
You're blatantly denying statements, feats, hype, and logic. Shunsui and Unohana has displayed far better feats than Vizard Ichigo did. Why you're denying this despite the fact that I've listed their feats is completely unknown to me.

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So chapter and page to say otherwise because I know for a fact I can support my claims. I am going to leave you with ch 382 pg 4-8. It says it all his reiatsu at half power and damaged was on par with Unoharu.
Except it doesn't. You made that all up. Nothing even remotely implied that Unohana thought that Ichigo's reiatsu was at least twice hers. I like how you blame others for making up fanfic when you're making a fanfiction of Bleach yourself. Read my first reply to you regarding what Unohana actually thought when she noticed that Ichigo's reaitsu was at half of its maximum. Cause that's what she actaully thought. To peg Unohana at simply average captain reiatsu level despite her feats have shown much better is completely senile.

- Show me the statement where it was stated that Ichigo was above all of the captains except for Yamamoto.
- Deny the fact that Kenpachi is far stronger than Ulquiorra despite the gap of how much his subconscious restraints are unshackled.
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:01 PM   #32
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

Ichigo + Bankai + Hollowfication mask, should be faster than Byakuya and Kenpachi. Ulquiorra was faster than that. And R2 was way faster. Full hollow Ichigo was slightly faster than R2 so Ulquiorra should speedblize.
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:02 PM   #33
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

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Originally Posted by Nigoyukai View Post
You pretty much supported my argument.
How so Ulquiorra has the strongest attack on panel.




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No, you didn't. You didn't even mention anything about the reason why Ichigo has high levels of reiatsu.
Lol Ichigo has high levels because of plot powers. You know the hollow mask he fought with for multiple arcs. He was one of the only few who could even fight an espada when they appeared.
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You see, here's where you've completely misinterpretated what I'm saying. I'm saying that if Hallibel has higher reiatsu than R2 Ulquiorra, then she'll be able to survive Lanza. Not saying that she won't be harmed, but she won't go down to it, just like how Gin was able to harm Mullet Aizen and instances like that. For Hallibel to actually survive Lanza, she has to know that it's coming and prepare herself for it by amping her reiatsu. If Aizen had done that against Gin's KnY, that blade would not have cutted into him.
Yeah what fight has this happen in besides a kenpachi one.Also again nothing supports her having a higher reiatsu which is the whole debate.
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Toshiro never injured hallibel anyway and Baraggan tanked Soifon's Bankai (but barely).
He still kept up with her same goes for Soifon. Their speed also correlates to their reiatsu not just attacks and durabilty. Which also relatively held up against them. Ulquiorra straight up ganked Ichigo without trying. Those two had to struggle a bit.



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What manga are you reading? Did you not read the Kenpachi vs Unohana fight where it was explained why Kenpachi lost? Did you not figure out that the Kenpachi that was fighting Yammy was completely different than the Kenpachi that was fighting Ichigo?
Which is how high compared to who. Furthermore he is way stronger than unohana unrestricted. So that doesn't even say how strong she is but more an indication of him.
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Byakuya? Obviously not. It took Byakuya high difficulty to beat Zommari, the 7th Espada. How is Byakuya planning to beat someone 3 ranks, or even 4 ranks higher than Zommari? Byakuya will get rofltstomped and blitzed should he fight a serious Hallibel and Ulquiorra.
First of all he got held up by haxx not actually a power. Second he was still relatively okay once he killed him. Also again you fail to accept the fact the captains reiatsu levels are relatively close to eachother. They didn't actually choose a number you do realize that right. They just chose opponents on the fly. Meaning if it came down to it anyone of them could have ended up with stark. It is called plot.
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Soifon + Omaeda may have fought Baraggan, but they didn't stand a chance in putting him down. Baraggan didn't even had to release.
Hitsugaya was getting consistently overpowered by a Hallibel who was taking the entire fight effortlessly. If she was bloodlusted, base Hallibel would have killed Hitsugaya before he even used Tenso Jurin + HH on her.
Don't try to say they were holding back. They were stronger but at the same time the reapers were evading and surviving barely albeit. But none the less surviving. Also I thank you for supporting my argument. Ichigo fought all of his opponents alone Toshiro and Soifon needed back up to save them. That goes for shunsui too. Though I admit he did better than Ichigo. Who had to go beserk to win. But none the less it shows you their standings.




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So what? You act like those feats don't put him at a level far beyond Masked Bankai Ichigo. He still has his fight against Yamamoto and QMQ.
They do but barely. Mind you R2 went against Vasto lord Ichigo. He even took that blast which was the strongest attack in the arc until dangai. After taking said attack he hit Ichigo with Lanza and turned him back to normal. Stark doesn't have a showing nowhere close to that. Nor an attack that comes close to lanza.
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And by captains, I hope you realize you mean anyone who isn't Ukitake, Unohana, Kenpachi, Shunsui, and Yamamoto, right? Because there's a clear-cut disparity in power between Post-Nnoitra Kenpachi, the weakest of the five, and R1 Ulquiorra/Masked Bankai Ichigo
Everyone you named is featless and has speculation on their power outside of Yamamoto.
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Oh and btw, only one of those Vizards even won the fights. Love and Rose got stomped by Starrk. Hiyori and Lisa couldn't do anything against Hallibel. Kensei and Mashiro got off-panneled. Shinji didn't beat anyone. The only Vizard that won was Hachigen, and that was due to Baraggan's arrogance.
Yeah again you are supporting my statement. The only one to actually fight one of the four and win was Ichigo. Albeit he flipped out. So you are only going against yourself mentioning that fact.


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Are you talking about Gin? You mean the same Gin who was literally taking the fight casual. Nowhere remotely near serious at all? You mean the same Gin who Ichigo had to put his mask on just to avoid his Buto Renjin? Yeah, using Gin is a poor way to evaluate Ichigo's level.
Lol proof that Gin wasn't serious he is always smiling so you can't gauge his mind. Furthermore he has no hollow powers so his powers were already on full blast. So what you just said was your opinion.

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This is no different from claiming that Urahara + Isshin + Yoruichi fought Condom Aizen pretty evenly, despite the fact that he was taking the fight effortlessly against them
.
How is that the same when Ichigo fought Gin one on one. Like always forever and a day.



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Omg..... do you even know what you're talking about anymore? Here's what you're saying. You're saying that Ichigo up to the point he fought Ulquiorra was stronger than any captain except for Yamamoto. Despite the fact that this is the same Ichigo who was just a tad bit stronger than Released Grimmjow. Thus, you're claiming that Released Grimmjow is stronger than Shunsui, Ukitake, and Unohana. Do tell me what Ichigo getting stronger than Grimmjow has anything to do with what I said.
Based on feats at the time period he was. Especially considering he could flip out and use his hollow powers at any given times. You do know I was including that fact right?
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Except Nnoitra is a rank above Grimmjow, who is on the same level as Masked Bankai Ichigo. Nnoitra even said that Ichigo barely beated Grimmjow and that he was even stronger than him. So no, I'm not using Nnoitra vs Ichigo as evidence at all.
Again ever since the soul society Ichigo gradually gets stronger after each fight. This has been apart of the story consistently. Like all shounen protagonist.



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Are you denying that Kenpachi, after he fought Nnoitra/while he was fighting Yammy, is far stronger than R1 Ulquiorra, considering how he got from Shikai Ichigo level to Nnoitra-level just after one defeat by Ichigo?
Kenpachi stronger than R1 at that time period is a no. Number one he is too slow. Basically now you are trying to put Nnoitra on par with Ulquiorra now.





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Lol. The fact that you're denying that the seniors are on a whole other level than Masked Bankai Ichigo tells me that you've not been reading Tite Kubo's canon and read your own fanfiction version. Go read some Bleach and come back when you've got your power tiers straight.
Nope I have I read the part where Ichigo flipped out and raped the out of there fourth strongest. So tell me what have you been reading.


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You're blatantly denying statements, feats, hype, and logic. Shunsui and Unohana has displayed far better feats than Vizard Ichigo did. Why you're denying this despite the fact that I've listed their feats is completely unknown to me.
What feats Unohana had a fight with a stronger kenpachi. How strong he was who knows. So straight hype. Furthermore when you include Ichigo's reiatsu you include his hollow powers which craps all over them.

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Except it doesn't. You made that all up. Nothing even remotely implied that Unohana thought that Ichigo's reiatsu was at least twice hers. I like how you blame others for making up fanfic when you're making a fanfiction of Bleach yourself. Read my first reply to you regarding what Unohana actually thought when she noticed that Ichigo's reaitsu was at half of its maximum. Cause that's what she actaully thought. To peg Unohana at simply average captain reiatsu level despite her feats have shown much better is completely senile.

- Show me the statement where it was stated that Ichigo was above all of the captains except for Yamamoto.
- Deny the fact that Kenpachi is far stronger than Ulquiorra despite the gap of how much his subconscious restraints are unshackled.
Lol I made it up. Bro you just straight ignored chapter and pages of her comparing Ichigo's power to the captains in general. Which would include herself. He was only at 50% when she made that call. Mind you at the time. Nevermind the big ass surprise face when she found it was only 50%. Meaning she thought his power was high. Statements like this is why I give you the fan fic tag. Everything you named is hype. Come talk when they actually show something. Vasto lord Ichigo created one of the most powerful attack in the series. Also probably contributed to a portion of dangai Ichigo power. R2 took his strongest attack and still fought back. Lanza even blasted his mask off. So come with feats instead of hype.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:08 PM   #34
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

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Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
How so Ulquiorra has the strongest attack on panel.
No, he doesn't. He has the largest attack on-panel. Nice try, tho.




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Lol Ichigo has high levels because of plot powers. You know the hollow mask he fought with for multiple arcs. He was one of the only few who could even fight an espada when they appeared.
So, not only did you not stated the reason for Ichigo's high reiatsu levels earlier like you claimed, you stated the wrong reason. But nvm that.



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Yeah what fight has this happen in besides a kenpachi one.Also again nothing supports her having a higher reiatsu which is the whole debate.
Aizen vs Kenpachi + Love.
Yamamoto vs Ennetsu Jigoku
Stated by Kenpachi, indirectly stated by Aizen twice.
It's fine if Hallibel doesn't have higher reiatsu than Ulquiorra. Idc. But it's undeniable that Unpatched Kenpachi by the time he fought Yammy had higher reiatsu than R2 Ulquiorra. And it's because of that, that Kenpachi can tank Ulquiorra's lances and Cos. Lanza? Not an option? Ulquiorra isn't so keen on killing himself. he has no intention nor reason to resort to using Lanza.


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He still kept up with her same goes for Soifon. Their speed also correlates to their reiatsu not just attacks and durabilty. Which also relatively held up against them. Ulquiorra straight up ganked Ichigo without trying. Those two had to struggle a bit.
Kept up with her? Toshiro was barely reacting to a non-serious Hallibel in CQC. His only speed feat in that fight was dodging her Cero.
Ummm.... except Soifon got blitzed.
Speed has no correlation to reiatsu. This has never been stated, shown, or implied; in fact, there are many contradictions to the notion that speed correlates to reiatsu. Such as the Espada (basic example is Zommari being faster than Nnoitra), Mashiro and Wonderweiss (mashiro kept up with WW, same one that blitzed Ukitake/Shunsui, senior captains that vastly surpasses a masked Lieutenant's reiatsu), and speedsters like Yoruichi, Urahara, and Soifon themselves all contradict that notion.


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Which is how high compared to who. Furthermore he is way stronger than unohana unrestricted. So that doesn't even say how strong she is but more an indication of him.
Jesus christ. Lemme sum it down for you, since you're not getting this. Kenpachi after he defeated Nnoitra and Yammy - by the end of the HM arc, had a reiatsu level higher than that of any of the Espada. Supported by the fact that his reiatsu surpasses that of yammy's, the Espada with the highest reiatsu. On that level, he can easily roflstomp the same Ichigo that fought Ulquiorra. THEN, after he was defeated by Royd Llyod, his power rose to a level very close to Royd Llyod's. Unohana stomped a Kenpachi who was nearly as strong as Royd Llyod, DOZENS OF TIMES. That's a solid indication of not only her power, but also her reiatsu, which can be easily determined from simple sword to sword fights. An unrestricted Kenpachi became stronger than both Unohana and Royd Llyod, essentially putting his reiatsu, striking/cutting power and strength, and most likely durability, stamina, and endurance at least equal to base Aizen's. Same base Aizen who I've stated is on a level beyond R2 Ulquiorra.


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First of all he got held up by haxx not actually a power. Second he was still relatively okay once he killed him. Also again you fail to accept the fact the captains reiatsu levels are relatively close to eachother. They didn't actually choose a number you do realize that right. They just chose opponents on the fly. Meaning if it came down to it anyone of them could have ended up with stark. It is called plot.
1. Doesn't matter. Amor can be resisted by reiatsu and willpower.
2. After losing an arm and a leg. The reason why Byakuya even won that fight was because Zommari was not bloodlusted.
3. Except their reiatsu levels are not relatively close to each other. Nothing resembling that has been stated, shown, or implied in the manga. I assume that that's part of the fanfiction that you made up in your mind as you were 'reading" Bleach. Prove that all of the captains' reiatsu are close to each other, and I'll concede.
4. Yet those opponents proved to be on a comparable level to the captains who faced them. Let's say Byakuya, Toshiro, or Soifon went up against Starrk. Would they have fared as well against him than their respective Espadas? Of course not. They'd either get blitzed or stomped.


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Don't try to say they were holding back. They were stronger but at the same time the reapers were evading and surviving barely albeit. But none the less surviving.
They were holding back. Barragan's arrogance and tendency to play around with his opponents proves that. Him not killing Omaeda right off the bat proves that. Him letting Soifon prepare her Bankai proves that.
Hallibel going easy on Toshiro is evident, seeing as this is the same Toshiro that coudln't even beat a Released Luppi, someone three ranks below Hallibel.

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Also I thank you for supporting my argument. Ichigo fought all of his opponents alone Toshiro and Soifon needed back up to save them. That goes for shunsui too. Though I admit he did better than Ichigo. Who had to go beserk to win. But none the less it shows you their standings.
That's your argument? That because Ichigo fought alone whereas other captains fought against people stronger than the people Ichigo were fighting together means that Ichigo is stronger than them? Yep. Thanks for proving my point. That you're applying a very basic and narrow perspective to a singleverse-based match.
Ichigo had no chance whatsoever against R1 Ulquiorra, until plotkai came in. The only person he bested alone was against R1 Grimmjow, and that was because he had Orihime and Nel to give him a reason to win.
Whereas Soifon actually harmed Baraggan. Whereas Toshiro actually had a way to beat Hallibel. Whereas Shunsui beated Starrk. The captains fared better against the members of the top 4 Espada than Ichigo did. Do you deny this?



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They do but barely. Mind you R2 went against Vasto lord Ichigo.
No on no. Correction. He got blitzed-stomped by H2 Ichigo.

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He even took that blast which was the strongest attack in the arc until dangai.
You mean the blast that obliterated more than half his body? Nothing impressive other than his regeneration. Which led to his death either way. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

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After taking said attack he hit Ichigo with Lanza and turned him back to normal. Stark doesn't have a showing nowhere close to that. Nor an attack that comes close to lanza.
You mean after H2 Ichigo tried to kill Ishida with a Cero, thus blindsiding himself? Not to mention that H2 forgot all about Ulquiorra, believing that he had disposed of the trash? H2 Ichigo reverted to normal because the Cero exploded right in his face, not because Ulquiorra hit him.

Showing? you act like cutting off H2's horn is impressive. Moreover, you act like that's a feat. news flash! it's not....



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Yeah again you are supporting my statement. The only one to actually fight one of the four and win was Ichigo. Albeit he flipped out. So you are only going against yourself mentioning that fact.
1. forgetting that Shunsui won against Starrk
2. Forgetting that Ichigo lost to Ulquiorra, and it was his hollow that actually beated Ulquiorra. Ichigo merely survived the fight. I don't even know why you stated that Ichigo was the only one who won against the top 4.
3. Forgetting that Shunsui beated Starrk who's 3 goddamn ranks above R1 Ulquiorra, same R1 Ulquiorra that like you said, trashed masked Bankai Ichigo.




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Lol proof that Gin wasn't serious he is always smiling so you can't gauge his mind. Furthermore he has no hollow powers so his powers were already on full blast. So what you just said was your opinion.
Let's see....
1. Lack of reading comprehension
2. Lack of character analysis
3. This post is not a rebuttal. Revise and try again.



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How is that the same when Ichigo fought Gin one on one. Like always forever and a day.
Also a lack of reading comprehension. Gin vs Ichigo is analogous to Aizen vs FKT Trio, because Aizen and Gin were not taking the fight seriously, while the other side was going full blast.



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Based on feats at the time period he was. Especially considering he could flip out and use his hollow powers at any given times. You do know I was including that fact right?
Then you're completely senile to even include H2 Ichigo as part of pre-timeskip ichigo's individual power. You're literally comparing two completely different characters.
There is no feat, hype, or statement that suggests that the Ichigo that was fighting Ulquiorra or Grimmjow is above the senior captains in terms of reiatsu. There is also none of that suggesting it for Released Grimmjow or Nnoitra. The moment you even admitted it shows that your Bleach rankings and analysis is completely over. Literally Shunsui's feat of beating Starrk... puts him above Grimmjow and Nnoitra by a vast margin. I assume that you thinking otherwise as part of the fanfiction continuity you created.



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Again ever since the soul society Ichigo gradually gets stronger after each fight. This has been apart of the story consistently. Like all shounen protagonist.
He has, but you're wanking him. There is no growth where pre-timeskip Ichigo got on the senior captains' level.



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Kenpachi stronger than R1 at that time period is a no. Number one he is too slow. Basically now you are trying to put Nnoitra on par with Ulquiorra now.
1. Except I'm talking about reiatsu.
2. Alas. concrete evidence that you do not read the bleach manga and that your comprehension of it is piss-poor
Do me a favor. Re-read the entire Unohana vs Kenpachi fight dozens of times, and then came back to debate with me. because right now you have no idea where post-Yammy Kenpachi's tier level is.



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Nope I have I read the part where Ichigo flipped out and raped the out of there fourth strongest. So tell me what have you been reading.
Tell me what you've been thinking when you decided to make H2 Ichigo and Masked Bankai Ichigo synonymous.


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What feats Unohana had a fight with a stronger kenpachi. How strong he was who knows. So straight hype. Furthermore when you include Ichigo's reiatsu you include his hollow powers which craps all over them.
1. Already explained. Unohana was roughly equal with base Aizen in reiatsu. Kenpachi surpasses Unohana's reiatsu.
2. Oh.... DL. Completely terrible of you to include H2 Ichigo as part of Ichigo's arsenal. You're trying too hard. But I do admit that H2 Ichigo's reiatsu craps all over the seniors, except for Unohana and Yamamoto.


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Lol I made it up. Bro you just straight ignored chapter and pages of her comparing Ichigo's power to the captains in general. Which would include herself. He was only at 50% when she made that call. Mind you at the time. Nevermind the big ass surprise face when she found it was only 50%. Meaning she thought his power was high. Statements like this is why I give you the fan fic tag. Everything you named is hype. Come talk when they actually show something. Vasto lord Ichigo created one of the most powerful attack in the series. Also probably contributed to a portion of dangai Ichigo power. R2 took his strongest attack and still fought back. Lanza even blasted his mask off. So come with feats instead of hype.
1. She did not compare Ichigo's reiatsu to the captains in general. She merely stated that his reiatsu was on par with a captain's reiatsu. The reiatsu required for the average captain.
I'm not even going to elaborate any further. It's clear that you'll always stick to your own interpretation of what Unohana meant (which anyone who has a decent understanding of Bleachverse will rofl at) and not be swayed. Furthermore, you've even took what's supposed to be an Ulquiorra vs Byakuya and Kenpachi to something that's unrelated.

Either you show me proof for:
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- Show me the statement where it was stated that Ichigo was above all of the captains except for Yamamoto.
- Deny the fact that Kenpachi is far stronger than Ulquiorra despite the gap of how much his subconscious restraints are unshackled.
or concede. Because making out blatant fanfic lies and jesus mixing H2 Ichigo with Masked Bankai Ichigo (terrible decision) = a crappy, tl;dr argument.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:56 PM   #35
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

Both of you shut up and do Ulquiorra vs the two captians not Ichigo and others.
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You're captain of the football team and are heavily involved in other sports. You actually get pretty decent grades, but most people don't know that. Most girls really really REALLY want to date you, but you don't notice or care for them. They're just fangirls. Like Sasuke.
You have a cool headed manner, and it almost appears as serious. When you're out in the games playing, you're just as serious but extremely aggressive. This is what leads the NDF football team to victory (lol in reality the team would suck ass but lets just imagine it otherwise)
You're popular and a lot of people look up to you and see you as most likely to win "Best All Around" in the yearbook. You walk into a party and everyone shouts "AYYY IT'S COLLIIIIIN" and you get attacked by high fives by your teammates and crew and hugs by desperate females. But most people don't know a lot about you personally because you don't let anyone in a lot.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:39 PM   #36
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

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Originally Posted by Nigoyukai View Post
No, he doesn't. He has the largest attack on-panel. Nice try, tho.





So, not only did you not stated the reason for Ichigo's high reiatsu levels earlier like you claimed, you stated the wrong reason. But nvm that.




Aizen vs Kenpachi + Love.
Yamamoto vs Ennetsu Jigoku
Stated by Kenpachi, indirectly stated by Aizen twice.
It's fine if Hallibel doesn't have higher reiatsu than Ulquiorra. Idc. But it's undeniable that Unpatched Kenpachi by the time he fought Yammy had higher reiatsu than R2 Ulquiorra. And it's because of that, that Kenpachi can tank Ulquiorra's lances and Cos. Lanza? Not an option? Ulquiorra isn't so keen on killing himself. he has no intention nor reason to resort to using Lanza.



Kept up with her? Toshiro was barely reacting to a non-serious Hallibel in CQC. His only speed feat in that fight was dodging her Cero.
Ummm.... except Soifon got blitzed.
Speed has no correlation to reiatsu. This has never been stated, shown, or implied; in fact, there are many contradictions to the notion that speed correlates to reiatsu. Such as the Espada (basic example is Zommari being faster than Nnoitra), Mashiro and Wonderweiss (mashiro kept up with WW, same one that blitzed Ukitake/Shunsui, senior captains that vastly surpasses a masked Lieutenant's reiatsu), and speedsters like Yoruichi, Urahara, and Soifon themselves all contradict that notion.



Jesus christ. Lemme sum it down for you, since you're not getting this. Kenpachi after he defeated Nnoitra and Yammy - by the end of the HM arc, had a reiatsu level higher than that of any of the Espada. Supported by the fact that his reiatsu surpasses that of yammy's, the Espada with the highest reiatsu. On that level, he can easily roflstomp the same Ichigo that fought Ulquiorra. THEN, after he was defeated by Royd Llyod, his power rose to a level very close to Royd Llyod's. Unohana stomped a Kenpachi who was nearly as strong as Royd Llyod, DOZENS OF TIMES. That's a solid indication of not only her power, but also her reiatsu, which can be easily determined from simple sword to sword fights. An unrestricted Kenpachi became stronger than both Unohana and Royd Llyod, essentially putting his reiatsu, striking/cutting power and strength, and most likely durability, stamina, and endurance at least equal to base Aizen's. Same base Aizen who I've stated is on a level beyond R2 Ulquiorra.



1. Doesn't matter. Amor can be resisted by reiatsu and willpower.
2. After losing an arm and a leg. The reason why Byakuya even won that fight was because Zommari was not bloodlusted.
3. Except their reiatsu levels are not relatively close to each other. Nothing resembling that has been stated, shown, or implied in the manga. I assume that that's part of the fanfiction that you made up in your mind as you were 'reading" Bleach. Prove that all of the captains' reiatsu are close to each other, and I'll concede.
4. Yet those opponents proved to be on a comparable level to the captains who faced them. Let's say Byakuya, Toshiro, or Soifon went up against Starrk. Would they have fared as well against him than their respective Espadas? Of course not. They'd either get blitzed or stomped.



They were holding back. Barragan's arrogance and tendency to play around with his opponents proves that. Him not killing Omaeda right off the bat proves that. Him letting Soifon prepare her Bankai proves that.
Hallibel going easy on Toshiro is evident, seeing as this is the same Toshiro that coudln't even beat a Released Luppi, someone three ranks below Hallibel.


That's your argument? That because Ichigo fought alone whereas other captains fought against people stronger than the people Ichigo were fighting together means that Ichigo is stronger than them? Yep. Thanks for proving my point. That you're applying a very basic and narrow perspective to a singleverse-based match.
Ichigo had no chance whatsoever against R1 Ulquiorra, until plotkai came in. The only person he bested alone was against R1 Grimmjow, and that was because he had Orihime and Nel to give him a reason to win.
Whereas Soifon actually harmed Baraggan. Whereas Toshiro actually had a way to beat Hallibel. Whereas Shunsui beated Starrk. The captains fared better against the members of the top 4 Espada than Ichigo did. Do you deny this?




No on no. Correction. He got blitzed-stomped by H2 Ichigo.


You mean the blast that obliterated more than half his body? Nothing impressive other than his regeneration. Which led to his death either way. I'm not sure where you're going with this.


You mean after H2 Ichigo tried to kill Ishida with a Cero, thus blindsiding himself? Not to mention that H2 forgot all about Ulquiorra, believing that he had disposed of the trash? H2 Ichigo reverted to normal because the Cero exploded right in his face, not because Ulquiorra hit him.

Showing? you act like cutting off H2's horn is impressive. Moreover, you act like that's a feat. news flash! it's not....




1. forgetting that Shunsui won against Starrk
2. Forgetting that Ichigo lost to Ulquiorra, and it was his hollow that actually beated Ulquiorra. Ichigo merely survived the fight. I don't even know why you stated that Ichigo was the only one who won against the top 4.
3. Forgetting that Shunsui beated Starrk who's 3 goddamn ranks above R1 Ulquiorra, same R1 Ulquiorra that like you said, trashed masked Bankai Ichigo.





Let's see....
1. Lack of reading comprehension
2. Lack of character analysis
3. This post is not a rebuttal. Revise and try again.




Also a lack of reading comprehension. Gin vs Ichigo is analogous to Aizen vs FKT Trio, because Aizen and Gin were not taking the fight seriously, while the other side was going full blast.




Then you're completely senile to even include H2 Ichigo as part of pre-timeskip ichigo's individual power. You're literally comparing two completely different characters.
There is no feat, hype, or statement that suggests that the Ichigo that was fighting Ulquiorra or Grimmjow is above the senior captains in terms of reiatsu. There is also none of that suggesting it for Released Grimmjow or Nnoitra. The moment you even admitted it shows that your Bleach rankings and analysis is completely over. Literally Shunsui's feat of beating Starrk... puts him above Grimmjow and Nnoitra by a vast margin. I assume that you thinking otherwise as part of the fanfiction continuity you created.




He has, but you're wanking him. There is no growth where pre-timeskip Ichigo got on the senior captains' level.




1. Except I'm talking about reiatsu.
2. Alas. concrete evidence that you do not read the bleach manga and that your comprehension of it is piss-poor
Do me a favor. Re-read the entire Unohana vs Kenpachi fight dozens of times, and then came back to debate with me. because right now you have no idea where post-Yammy Kenpachi's tier level is.




Tell me what you've been thinking when you decided to make H2 Ichigo and Masked Bankai Ichigo synonymous.



1. Already explained. Unohana was roughly equal with base Aizen in reiatsu. Kenpachi surpasses Unohana's reiatsu.
2. Oh.... DL. Completely terrible of you to include H2 Ichigo as part of Ichigo's arsenal. You're trying too hard. But I do admit that H2 Ichigo's reiatsu craps all over the seniors, except for Unohana and Yamamoto.



1. She did not compare Ichigo's reiatsu to the captains in general. She merely stated that his reiatsu was on par with a captain's reiatsu. The reiatsu required for the average captain.
I'm not even going to elaborate any further. It's clear that you'll always stick to your own interpretation of what Unohana meant (which anyone who has a decent understanding of Bleachverse will rofl at) and not be swayed. Furthermore, you've even took what's supposed to be an Ulquiorra vs Byakuya and Kenpachi to something that's unrelated.

Either you show me proof for:

or concede. Because making out blatant fanfic lies and jesus mixing H2 Ichigo with Masked Bankai Ichigo (terrible decision) = a crappy, tl;dr argument.
Lol I am not going over all of this. Most of this is you just ignoring points and talking crap. Waste of time to answer trash. Two facts Ulquiorra had enough reiatsu to survive that cero at point blank from H2 Ichigo. He even had it in him to attack after the fact. Even wounding hm. Point blank none of the other espada has shown close to that level of durability. Nor an attack on the scale of Lanza/. All that other off tangent hype you were going over doesn't even matter. Why because this on panel evidence not an endless bs list of powerscaling.

Fact number two. Ichigo highest peak in his reiatsu is H2. Prove the captains had reiatsu on that level. If you can't this conversation is over. Life is two short to hear you spouting the fanboyism of yours about the captains.

As for this threads Ulquiorra rapes until feats prove otherwise.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:06 PM   #37
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

I'm pretty sure 2nd state Ulquiorra wrecks both of them. Bayakuya is taken out quickly. It's hard to guage Kenpachi's strength but I believe Ulquiorra's 2nd state should be way more powerful than current Kenpachi. Ulquiorra has town busters, I can't see Kenpachi dodging forever.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:12 PM   #38
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Default Re: Ulquiorra vs Byakuya & Kenpachi

Dodge? Zaraki will try to tank it stupidly and die.
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