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Old 08-16-2009, 08:01 PM   #41
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Default Re: War

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Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori View Post
You have it all wrong. MOST of the Iraqi's over there are on our side. Hundreds of thousands of them are being trained as their own Security Forces. The terrorists are the ones that do suicide bombings in the cities, killing americans and iraqi's alike. The ones laying IED's on the side of the road, the one's slapping bombs to children.

Most of the Iraqi people love us there. They feel safer. They lived in a constant state of horror with the terrorist cells before.
with that, i wonder why Iraqi people wanted the americans out of their country...i wonder why americans can't really eradicated the so called "terrorists". is it because the Iraqi people are helping them? they we're living peacefully before the americans came in...
and lastly, i wonder who trained the terrorists in the first place? oh! its the Americans! and the "hundreds of thousands" that the americans are training now for their Security force are the next terrorists! they will come handy when the americans needed another war to errupt.
you see, americans needed the "terrorists" for the military industrial complex to prosper and earn billions of dollars! and they needed these "terrorists" to "invade" other countries for their own selfish purposes...oh there is a terrorist cell in Syria launch an all out attack!...*misiles launched!* BOOM! oops that's a school building...SOOWWI...but the "terrorists are using the school as their base - says the man in the white house...booooo!
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Old 08-16-2009, 08:04 PM   #42
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Default Re: War

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with that, i wonder why Iraqi people wanted the americans out of their country...i wonder why americans can't really eradicated the so called "terrorists". is it because the Iraqi people are helping them? they we're living peacefully before the americans came in...
and lastly, i wonder who trained the terrorists in the first place? oh! its the Americans! and the "hundreds of thousands" that the americans are training now for their Security force are the next terrorists! they will come handy when the americans needed another war to errupt.
you see, americans needed the "terrorists" for the military industrial complex to prosper and earn billions of dollars! and they needed these "terrorists" to "invade" other countries for their own selfish purposes...oh there is a terrorist cell in Syria launch an all out attack!...*misiles launched!* BOOM! oops that's a school building...SOOWWI...but the "terrorists are using the school as their base - says the man in the white house...booooo!
wow, just wow. you must be one of those people who think Obama is not an american citizen born in Hawaii
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:35 PM   #43
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Default Re: War

for the record, i'm not against the americans in general. xD. i am against its senseless wars. it just pains me to see brave men and women, soldiers die in these stupid wars.

i lost a cousin in Iraq. he was enlisted in the US Army.

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Old 08-17-2009, 01:31 AM   #44
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Default Re: War

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I lost a cousin in Iraq, he was enlisted in the US Army.
So instead of honoring him by supporting the cause you're ganna b**ch about it? The millitary is an optional thing, ya know, if he didn't want to go he shouldn't of enlisted. I don't mean to be mean, but show some respect.

You notice how we never hear anything good about the war there? You also notice how little we hear at all? You wanna know why we're not hearing alot? We're doing what we went there to do, and it's not news because we do it every day! When things go well you don't hear about them. No news is good news. If we started hearing all about what's happening there it would be a bad sign. Sense the media has time to waste on MJ's death I don't think we're doing bad over there.

If you dislike what we're doing at least show enough respect not to insult those over there. They're doing their jobs. You wanna make a change? Then get into politics and make it happen. Don't say you can't this is American, and that means you can if you try!
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:57 AM   #45
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Default Re: War

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So instead of honoring him by supporting the cause you're ganna b**ch about it? The millitary is an optional thing, ya know, if he didn't want to go he shouldn't of enlisted. I don't mean to be mean, but show some respect.

You notice how we never hear anything good about the war there? You also notice how little we hear at all? You wanna know why we're not hearing alot? We're doing what we went there to do, and it's not news because we do it every day! When things go well you don't hear about them. No news is good news. If we started hearing all about what's happening there it would be a bad sign. Sense the media has time to waste on MJ's death I don't think we're doing bad over there.

If you dislike what we're doing at least show enough respect not to insult those over there. They're doing their jobs. You wanna make a change? Then get into politics and make it happen. Don't say you can't this is American, and that means you can if you try!
for the record again i have high respects for the brave military men that have fought and died in wars...
what i am against is the stupid "cause" that they fought and died for. Most army men and citizens alike are thought and made to believe that the wars were for justice and freedom. but what i see is the opposite...war brings injustice and made for the benefits of the businessmen in the government.
i am not trying to insult our brave fighters over there...and as for my cousin, we honor him and his courage. he might not like the idea of the war in Iraq but he stood and fought brave for America because he is a good soldier who follows the orders/mission given to him.
as for the news/media, i am actually hearing only the "good news" about it. have you ever heard about how America have bombed civilian shelters? or have you heard about people on the war zones getting abused by military men and terrorists alike? have you heard about women being raped by war freaked soldiers? NO! because the government need to protect us from it..they need to protect us from the reality that that war that is supposed to be against terror is turning into a war of terror. in a sense that "we" became terrorists like our foe!
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:38 AM   #46
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Default Re: War

There is always the risk in any occupasional war that your own people will become the enemy. That's why there have to be rules. Court martials are more common then you might think. Dishonorable discharge is one of the leading reasons we have to keep sending troops. We have to filter out the bad.

It's called war for a reason, it's bad. It's always been bad, it will always be bad. That's what wars are.

Any war reguardless of reason or tactics used is bad, that's the way it works. I'm not saying I support war, or even this war. What I am saying is that not supporting the war in alot of ways means you're hurting our soldiers if in no other way then moral, so keep it to yourself. War is bad, no one really supports them, ever. Saying a specific one is wrong is an insult to the soldiers out there fighting.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:57 AM   #47
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Default Re: War

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Originally Posted by Sabra Kusabana View Post
There is always the risk in any occupasional war that your own people will become the enemy. That's why there have to be rules. Court martials are more common then you might think. Dishonorable discharge is one of the leading reasons we have to keep sending troops. We have to filter out the bad.

It's called war for a reason, it's bad. It's always been bad, it will always be bad. That's what wars are.

Any war reguardless of reason or tactics used is bad, that's the way it works. I'm not saying I support war, or even this war. What I am saying is that not supporting the war in alot of ways means you're hurting our soldiers if in no other way then moral, so keep it to yourself. War is bad, no one really supports them, ever. Saying a specific one is wrong is an insult to the soldiers out there fighting.
i can't keep my opinions to myself for several reasons. one this topic is a bout war so i have to say my piece about it.
about the moral of our soldiers...i think the moral of our soldiers in that war is low enough because of the reality that they have seen (you see by sheltering them from reality aka cheering/sweet creaming it/supporting the stupid war will only hurt them more when later on these same soldiers will find out the senselessness of it in the warzone). i may have caused to hurt it more (if they can read this) but that is not intentional, i am just stating reality. my point is i am trying in my own little way to voice this out so as the next generation soldiers would not be put in the same situation as to what our soldiers are in now. you see i see our brave soldiers here as victims of senseless wars too.
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:25 AM   #48
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Default Re: War

Then our wants are the same, but our methods differ.

I believe that education is the key to prevention of such a repeat of mistakes. Yet, even with such teachings war will happen, it's a sad fact of human reality. I just wish it was for better things.
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:38 AM   #49
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Default Re: War

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Then our wants are the same, but our methods differ.

I believe that education is the key to prevention of such a repeat of mistakes. Yet, even with such teachings war will happen, it's a sad fact of human reality. I just wish it was for better things.
yes it is really a sad reality.

but we all hope for better things. =D
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:16 AM   #50
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Default Re: War

I supose the busineses in the US profiting from the war that they are helpingfundis alot worse than Sadom murdering citizens of Iraq for having family members who disagree with him. You are correct I supose that his secret police forcing the people in Iraq into a constant state of terror was better than the deaths that have resulted from clearing out what nests could be found. I might even be willing to concede that the curds in Northern Iraq that have suffered ethnic cleansing campaings, poison bombings and the like are worse off now that they are having to decide if they want to stay part of Iraq without the threat of obliteration. Wait a minute.... no I don't agree with any of that... Of course some businesses are profiting from the war. That is what happens in war. Of course people die. The US occupational forces and the new Iraqi administrations aren't hunting down every disenter and shooting them, their families and their friends after lengthy torcher sessions.

They aren't killing anyone that doesn't chear loud enough as the whatever ruling party member walks by. And they aren't a threat to their neighbors anymore either. All of that was accomplished by thie horrible war you are whining about. Of course inocents are dieing with the rest, although not in the same numbers and not intentionally. People die all the time from all kinds of reasons and while it may be regrettable that they are dieing as a result of this war, they would have stood a high chance of being killed by the previous regime too. The country as a whole is not as downtrodden as you seem to think and they have a chance at a future not lived in constant fear.

As for the "terrorists" there will ALWAYS be people that cannot stand that the world is not as THEY think it should be. There will always be idiots that think their holy book is a reason to murder strangers for some misplaced sense of righteousness. And unless every US commander out there grows a degree of Prescience and can magically detect and classify every human and his motivation for being where he is atm they will always be able to hide untill they either act, slip up, or are stumbeled upon by a predator or other kind of patrol.

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Old 08-17-2009, 04:22 AM   #51
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Default Re: War

I am not claiming that the reasons for the war are pristine. I am claiming that Iraq as a whole is better off. As my general opinion of war is listed above, I should point out that I am not some kind of pro-war idiot. I am not for or against the war or any war as I believe they are simply what happens when enough people get pissed off. The more people there are the faster the pissing spreads. Good and evil being relative terms, the upshot is the Iraqi people, even the ones that liked the old regime, get to try again without being under threat of mass murder for disagreeing. If they try to kill people to make a statement they have placed themselves beyond the privelege to continue existing among their victims. That is all there is too it.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:55 AM   #52
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Default Re: War

I can't say much about war, I haven't really experieced it except through stories, media and Hollywood-ized depictions. I know my father wasn't that much of a fan of Vietnam, but I don't see much of a similarity. I think we are doing some good, I mean as a citizen of the United States I think the American Troops are making progress. But I am a naive student and sucker for the patriot card; If Uncle Sam drafted me I am sure I wouldn't have any problems at first.

I do feel uncomfortable though thinking about being 'here' while people are dying over 'there'. I hope this is all resolved soon and we can put it behind use and move on; I have some friends that I wouldn't seeing again, without the thought of them having to fight for their lives. But speaking of the Military I hear they give you this really fun shot before they send you away.
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:23 AM   #53
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Default Re: War

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Simple discussion. I read all these topics and see you guys giving your opinions on the subject.

But seriously, what do you know about war? None of you have ever experienced it first hand. None of you have ever seen how necassary it can be, and how out of hand it can also get.

What makes you think you have the right to question war?
I'm a total pacifist. I really would just love for people to get along. All of us have the right to question whatever we want, it's in the U.S. constitution. But that doesn't mean that questioning it is necessary.

Still, I don't need to experience war to know that it kills people. That alone is enough for me.


However, you make an excellent point. I, at this point in time, know very little about war.

That's why I'm not questioning it. I just don't want to have anything to do with it, and would rather avoid that particular solution to any conflict.



As always, I respect your opinion, and found this discussion very interesting.
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:14 AM   #54
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Default Re: War

ihazcetsup, the end result doesn't justify the means and so does the reasons for it. i am not siding with Saddam or the "terrorists". what i am saying is the reasons why we went to that war wasn't because of bringing justice and freedom to the Iraqis. it was mainly because of oil and to have a better hand/control of the middle east oils and to punish Iraq for not kissing Uncle Sams bu**. we were tricked on believing that there were weapons of mass destruction, and there were terrorist threats on the Iraqis and that they are being senselessly killed by "Saddam and other terrorists organization". (wait doesn't the US also have these problems in their own country and cannot even solve it yet?). now they may have achieved victory over Saddam but was it worth it? thousands of brave soldiers were killed, thousands were tortured and left scarred for a lifetime, thousands of civilians are killed (including women and children), millions of innocent civilians are left homeless and starting life from scratch, not to mention the trauma that they will carry all their life. to the think tanks and benefactors of this war it is worth it. they have gained billions of dollars and the oil is theirs. plus a big fat bonus on reconstruction and rebuilding Iraq and the destruction made by that war.

i say Iran would be next...and the war of greed continues...

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Old 08-17-2009, 11:39 AM   #55
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Default Re: War

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You have it all wrong. MOST of the Iraqi's over there are on our side. Hundreds of thousands of them are being trained as their own Security Forces. The terrorists are the ones that do suicide bombings in the cities, killing americans and iraqi's alike. The ones laying IED's on the side of the road, the one's slapping bombs to children.

Most of the Iraqi people love us there. They feel safer. They lived in a constant state of horror with the terrorist cells before.
well my friend let me make some points clear :
first as a general rule most of the Iraqis do not love you also they do not hate you. they want you out of their country.
seconds there where battles in Baghdad in the west in the south so the idea of few renegades does not fit
third there could be more peaceful ways to change Saddam or his system but it was not used
fourth many Iraqis killed in the time of Saddam and many killed after the difference is the cause in saddams time the cause could be saying bad things about him, but later the cause could be your name, yes your name believe it or not many people had to lie when to asked about their names because the name may reveal their ethnic group. both are bad things.

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Old 08-17-2009, 12:36 PM   #56
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Default Re: War

Love is a strong word, yes.

But you'd be surprised how many people have thanked the soldiers, from the bottom of their hearts, thanked them over there.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:42 PM   #57
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Default Re: War

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Love is a strong word, yes.
You always say Love is a strong term...

It's just four letters, how scary can it be?
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:50 PM   #58
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Default Re: War

sure many people where happy by the removal of Saddam, but many others ( whom them-self where persecuted by him are now asking are thing better ) in fact i cant answer.
i dont blame the American soldiers they obay commands some friendly some are not but its his duty to obey commands but the country is run in a very stupid way millions where forced to leave their homes and many new terms are heared after 2003 ( suicidal bombing, terror, even drug dictions ) millions of dollars are stolen regularly from iraq and till now there is no proper electricity sanitized water nor there is proper educations thousands of doctors and professors left the country for their life and many others killed and those are from all religions and ethnic group in the north and south
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:29 PM   #59
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Default Re: War

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sure many people where happy by the removal of Saddam, but many others ( whom them-self where persecuted by him are now asking are thing better ) in fact i cant answer.
i dont blame the American soldiers they obay commands some friendly some are not but its his duty to obey commands but the country is run in a very stupid way millions where forced to leave their homes and many new terms are heared after 2003 ( suicidal bombing, terror, even drug dictions ) millions of dollars are stolen regularly from iraq and till now there is no proper electricity sanitized water nor there is proper educations thousands of doctors and professors left the country for their life and many others killed and those are from all religions and ethnic group in the north and south
I really wish I could say what I wanted to say about this subject.

But all I can do for the next few years is refer you to Public Affairs.
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:48 PM   #60
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Default Re: War

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ihazcetsup, the end result doesn't justify the means and so does the reasons for it. i am not siding with Saddam or the "terrorists". what i am saying is the reasons why we went to that war wasn't because of bringing justice and freedom to the Iraqis. it was mainly because of oil and to have a better hand/control of the middle east oils and to punish Iraq for not kissing Uncle Sams bu**. we were tricked on believing that there were weapons of mass destruction, and there were terrorist threats on the Iraqis and that they are being senselessly killed by "Saddam and other terrorists organization". (wait doesn't the US also have these problems in their own country and cannot even solve it yet?). now they may have achieved victory over Saddam but was it worth it? thousands of brave soldiers were killed, thousands were tortured and left scarred for a lifetime, thousands of civilians are killed (including women and children), millions of innocent civilians are left homeless and starting life from scratch, not to mention the trauma that they will carry all their life. to the think tanks and benefactors of this war it is worth it. they have gained billions of dollars and the oil is theirs. plus a big fat bonus on reconstruction and rebuilding Iraq and the destruction made by that war.

i say Iran would be next...and the war of greed continues...
Ends and means? Justification is for people that believe there is justice. What does happen is the only possible way it could ever have happened given the cirumstances. Looking for justification is pointless. The world is what it is regardless of permission or an ok from those in it.
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