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Old 08-30-2013, 08:04 PM   #81
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Default Re: Earth vs Narutoverse around the world race

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So your saying your glad to be in my presence and accept your point of view is wrong. That you shouldn't take fiction so literal. Also pretty big of you to take this loss with no complaints.

DL, everybody loves you on this forum just the way you are. *Hugs DL and pats his head*.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:14 PM   #82
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Default Re: Earth vs Narutoverse around the world race

lol this whole thread is basically Edyl and DL going back and forth with each other.

Everything was tl so I dr.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:16 PM   #83
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:19 PM   #84
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Default Re: Earth vs Narutoverse around the world race

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lol this whole thread is basically Edyl and DL going back and forth with each other.

Everything was tl so I dr.
If you read from post 58 to post 66, you will see a clear winner. After that it is just garbage.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:17 PM   #85
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Default Re: Earth vs Narutoverse around the world race

I feel, bored so I will argue with you both--for a page.
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There isn't any evidence showing that the meteor was moving at the speed actual meteors move at. Not all of Sasuke's lightning style moves move at the speed of actual lightning.

Ohnoki did not have to catch up to the meteor. The meteor was moving straight at him. All he had to do was fly upwards. It does not necessarily mean that he was flying upwards at the same speed that the meteor was moving downward.

Added an addendum to the debate.
Well, there is that fact that it was incredibly huge, but I will get to that later

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Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
Ch 560 pg 16 signs of an object entering the earth at entry speeds. Boom end of subject.


The meteor was moving at a highspeed. The wind pressure was shown constantly. He had to be as fast as said meteor otherwise the meteor would smashed them before they could even react. You are judging the scene because of dull the action was. The feat loses alot of points because of the way it was drawn.That is once again an artist issue though. If you go by facts the feat is insanely fast.
High speed, doesn't mean meteor speed. Even an object of that size moving at terminal velocity would do that. To note, the speeds we are talking about terminal velocity isn't that fast. Meteors can move from 25,000 mph to 160,000mph.

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If it was really moving at the speed of an actual meteor, the meteor would have closed the distance in less than a second. People had plenty of time to talk and say multiple complete sentences.

If a meteor of that size hit the earth at actual meteor speeds, Earth would be blown off its orbit. It clearly was not moving at actual meteor speeds.

In the beginning of chapter 561, by the time Ohnoki reaches the meteor, it is already pretty close to the ground. It is only about 100 meters above everyone. That means he didn't get their instantaneously.
Not neccessarily. It obviously depends on it's size to speed. The meteor filled the sky, meaning it was larger than 6 miles in diameter, assuming a visual distance is 3 miles. Then the question is how close it was to the ground when it filled the sky. That's really hard to say. Onkoki was well above the mountain range. But maybe they were small mountains. All we do know, is that the remains of the meteor cover them all. So this meteor most be 100 miles in diameter. Seems unrealistic, but then again this is Kishi we are talking about. Suffice to say, there would be plenty of time to see this meteor was coming even if moving at 11 km/s.

No, he is definitely higher in the air. Much more than 100 m at least. Again hard to say how high. Could be anything from just 1 km to tens of km. But since we don't really get how long it took him to get there, there can't really be any speed estimate.
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Yeah not even an excuse to downplay a feat. Characters seeing a meteor before it land is common scene in fiction. One piece, one-punchman, Naruto, and many other series have the meteor scenes like that. Which for Naruto and one piece could easily attribute them to being superhuman. One-punchman they had regular humans seeing it. Anyways like I said not really an excuse to downplay a feat.




He still intercepted it. So I don't see your point there. Plus you proved the point of how fast it was practically on them. It started miles away from them in sky.


First of all highspeed objects do that. That only proves it was moving at a fast rate which is my point. Wind pressure is proof of that fact. Who cares if a baseball does it. The point is the meteor was falling fast.

Secondly it was on fire on it's first appearance. I just gave you the ch of it. It later cooled down in the pg after. An object of that size would be hard to stay heated. Not all objects that break the layers when entering the atmosphere stay heated the entire time.
If it is big enough you can bypass that, but there is the "talking takes no time" rule.

Again, there difference is the rather slow terminal velocity that would still cover miles rather fast versus miles in a second.

It was moving fast, but was it really moving fast? It was also gigantic.

The problem here is that it should actually get hotter as it approaches the ground. More atmosphere, more heat. You are right in sense, it could cool down ,but that would mean the atmosphere slowing it down to a great extend, contrary to your argument.

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Originally Posted by Edyl View Post
meteorites that hit the earth stay flaming if they maintain a certain speed. The fact that it was no longer flaming means that it lost speed. It also means that by the time it was no longer flaming it was slower than Gai's punches.

The fact that it shows wind pressure but no flames means that it was slower than an actual meteor but at the very least faster than a baseball. The baseball example was explained in order to show that wind pressure does not translate to hypersonic speeds. The pocket of wind pressure created from a baseball can literally fit several baseballs within it, and that is from a 80-90mph ball. From this we know that even if a large pocket of air pressure is formed, we know that the object is not automatically extremely fast.
Perhaps but you have to be careful.

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Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
No my logic is straight to the point. If an object shows entry level traits then it was moving at entry level speeds. Onoki speed would have to be relatively in range to stop it before it hit the planet. Those are the only facts that are needed. This is a comic not a documentary on meteors.


You are only proving your limited knowledge on the subject. A meteor the size of a mountain would not stay heated. It would need a heat alot higher than the ones offered by the entry to maintain heat. Smaller meteor stay lit from entry because of the fact they are small. Lol they are not tbe size of a mountain.
Not really. Again depends on it's size.

Actually bigger than a mountain. I don't think you know what you mean here, but it is sphere.

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Originally Posted by Edyl View Post
Do you not know physics?

No matter what the size is, if the meteor was still moving at entry level speeds it would stay lit. Friction is not related to size at all.

The fact still stands, if Ohnoki was moving at the same speed as the meteor, they would have met at the halfway point. Since they did not meet at the halfway point, he was moving slower than it. If two people were standing 50 meters apart and they ran towards each other at equal speeds, they would collide at the 25-meter point. If one of them was moving at twice the speed of the other, they would meet at the 16.66 meter point.
Friction isn't but heat capacity is. It's like an amoeba. They can only grow so big before their surface area is much smaller than their volume. IF, a big if, the material of the meteor was such that it could dissipate the heat on the surface to the cool center, it is possible in theory to cool itself. Since it is rock, that is not likely, but should be consider
Your point still stands that it must have slowed down. It was on fire and now isn't. Therefore the friction has decreased. QED meteor is slowing down. Of course, the question is how much did it slow down. And at what speed did it start?

That is true, but if the meteor was moving at 72 km/s and Onoki moved at a tenth the speed, he is still faster than any jet.

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No do you. An object of that size would need a way higher heat than what is generated during entry. Furthermore a meteor does lose speed once it gets to certain point. It is still in the 15000 mile mph and greater speed brackett. That also contributes to why a meteor doesn't stay engulfed in flames. Especially again one of that size. Also you made a false statement about all objects showing flames the entire duration of a fall during reentry. That is not true. If so provide proof.

Who said he was moving at the exact speed. Not me he could have started later or earlier during the meteors first showing. No feat is exact but it gives a general idea about said character spee. Again this is not a documentary stop treating it like one
If it is a slow meteor; however, maybe it is just an asteroid? Madara may have just pulled one from the asteroid belt and gently let it fall on them. I will admit, that it would take a great deal of speed to bring it over there, why would Madara then slow it down? Given this is Madara, maybe he just formed rock high in the air. The Hokage did form water from nothing that was a big deal. Might as well do rock too.



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Originally Posted by Edyl View Post
The density of the atmosphere is much higher the closer you go to the surface of Earth. A higher density of air means more molecules which in turn results in more molecular friction. The topics covered hear are basic chemistry and physical science.

If that isn't enough, look at the meteor that brushed bast Russia last year. That thing was still blazing hot. It was so close that the shockwaves it created blew out windows.

Once again, size has nothing to do with friction. Factories melt metal pipes together by spinning them against each other. They use this method on pipes ranging from 6 inches in diameter to 2 feet in diameter. Both become red hot and fuse together.
But that doesn't consider cooling and flow dynamics, and baths, and initial temperature. It could be that the meteor was covered in ignitable material and then it burned off, leaving a less flammable, cooler core.

Pipes have empty cores, i.e air, which doesn't transmit heat very well.

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Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
Yeah no you didn't provide proof. You actually went off into left field. The examples you used were irrelevant to the topic. Lol spinning pipe. Two different materials.

First you do know that most meteors burn up in entry. So your statement about all meteors staying engulfed in flames is outrageous because of that fact alone. There is no proof of that. Which is why I ask it to prove you don't know what you are talking about.

Secondly heat had nothing to do with the shockwaves caused by the russian meteor. The speed and force of the object hitting was the cause. Normal supersonic vehicles we make can cause similar shockwaves. If I recall correctly.

Third the russian meteor does not equate to 0.5 of madara's meteor in size or density. It was so huge only the tip was even getting hot as it entered. This is a common fact that such a massive object would be hard to heat. Nothing you are saying is taking away that fact.

It was a meteor get over it. Considering Onoki can manipulate an object the size of an island with little difficulty manipulating himself to those speeds is nothing. Well anyways keep running in circles
That's really the best you are going to get, it terms of heat transmission.

That's a matter of size, not cooling.

To heat heat the entire meteor up, but not the surface. Of course, one could make a drag argument. The tip might push the air out of the way of the rest of the meteor, less air, less heating.

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Originally Posted by Edyl View Post
Meteors burn up because of the friction with the atmosphere. Friction is caused by molecular contact. The closer to the ground the meteor gets, the higher the density of molecules. The higher the density, the more friction. The more friction the more heat. I'm just repeating what I said in a previous post, but i'm breaking it down so it sinks in.

It was seen with the Russian meteor that it was getting hotter and brighter the closer it got to the ground.

I talked about the shockwaves to show how close it was to the ground. Nothing else. Look back at my post if you don't believe me. It just goes to show that even when meteors get close to the ground, they remain hot. In fact, they get hotter.

I talked about the metal pipes to show how the intensity of heat generated by friction is not affected by size. A large object and a small object moving at the same speed will still hit air molecules which will cause friction which will result in heat being produced. A large object will have more mass to heat up, but it will also have a larger surface area to hit more air molecules. The same principle applies to the pipes. The larger pipe has more to heat up, but it also has a larger surface area for more heat to be generated. Size in this case does not affect how hot it will get at the surface.

Stength is not equal to speed in Naruto. This can be seen with Tsunade.
Yes, but less surface area to mass. It only works for pipes, not spheres.
Quote:
Just because the meteor was pulled from father away doesn't mean that it was moving faster than an object that orbits earth. Meteor speeds vary greatly. There are meteors out there floating in space that are barely moving with respect to earth. There are others that are moving at omfgwtf speeds.

The Barringer crater in Arizona, which is 43 miles in diameter, was created by a meteor that was just 50 meters in diameter. Estimates have put the speed of the meteor to be somewhere close to 28,000 mph. Madara's "meteor" was much larger than this meteor, and yet the destructive damage doesn't even compare.

If Madara's meteor was moving at reentry speeds, Narutoverse would have been screwed. Also remember, if you double the diameter of a sphere shaped rock, you multiply its mass by eight. Madara's meteor was could have probably fit over 100 of the barringer meteors into it. Madara's meteor made clouds look small.

Nasa needs several building-sized rockets in order to get a shuttle that is not even 1/1000th the mass of a typical meteor up to orbital speeds, and you think Madara could produce something like that in order to accelerate the meteor towards earth?

Most meteors that are "close" to earth as Near Earth Objects are very far away. A plan that was submitted to NASA for evaluation back in 2010 for sending a probe to a meteor had an estimated travel time of nearly a year. How the ^&*( does Madara pull one in in a matter of seconds?

The idea that the meteors are pulled in from deep space is just ridiculous. The only other option though is that Madara summoned it, and that would fail too.

Erm, You just used circular reasoning. I argued that Madara isn't powerful enough to pull in a meteor. You say he is powerful enough because he pulled in two.

Destroying miles of land (miles being less than 10 square miles) is on a whole different level than accelerating a meteor to speeds above orbital speeds. A meteor with a diameter of 50 meters wiped out an area of a diameter of 43 miles. We are talking about the difference between the first nuclear bombs vs current nuclear weapons. We are taking about a difference of over a hundred fold. Cutting a mountain with a susanoo is pathetic in comparison.

You can call me ridiculous and full of crap as much as you want. The fact of the matter is, both of us have already dropped a majority of our previous arguments.
The Chicxulub crater was formed from a meteor of 6 mi in diameter, rater is 110 miles.

We do know that the area the meteor cover was a number of mountain ranges which are all gone. Mountain cover tens of miles. And remember Onoki broke the meteors before they hit, so the crater won't be much more than meteor itself. It has to hit at full speed to make the crater. Onoki stopped it.

Regardless, the meteor must at least be 6 miles in diameter. It filled the sky horizon to horizon.

None of this says the meteor was moving fast, I assume it wasn't. But all this relies on Kishi being physically consistent, which is a big stretch. The easiest estimate is the meteor size >6 miles, but it is inconclusive on Onoki's speed.

Back to the topic at hand. Maybe Naruto if he could keep his top speed, which is a big if. Onoki clearly does not have stamina.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:25 PM   #86
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:46 PM   #87
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Default Re: Earth vs Narutoverse around the world race

@ Wooster.

A lot of what you said was irrelevant.

1. Who cares if the entire meteor was heated up from the surface to the center? If the meteor was moving at reentry level speeds, no matter what, the surface would be on fire. Sure, a meteor 200 miles in diameter might not heat all the way to the core, but it would still be a giant flaming ball if it were moving at reentry level speeds. We don't care about core temperature, we only care about surface temperature.

2. The thing wasn't flaming, so it wasn't at reentry level speeds.

3. If it were taken from the asteroid belt, it would have had to have been moving at insane speeds in order to get back to earth in time. The distance between earth and the asteroid belt is fairly large, and Madara was able to summon the "meteor" in a matter of seconds to a matter of minutes. Bringing up the asteroid belt was pointless.

4. Yep, it had to be summoned, just like how the kage summon things such as water or fire, or brought from an area close to earth which is unlikely seeing as no asteroids of that size orbit close to earth. This was already covered in our posts.

5. you can clearly calculate how far away Ohnoki is from the ground and how large the meteor is. Since we know Ohnoki is around 2-4 feet tall, we can calculate how far he is from the ground. All we need to do is count how many Ohnokis it would take to fill up the space between the meteor and the ground.

6. A meteor of that size moving at actual reentry level speeds would destroy the narutoverse. A 50 meter wide meteor moving at reentry level speeds made a 43 mile wide crater in Arizona. A several mile wide meteor moving at reentry level speeds would be like nuking the narutoverse several times over. If anyone thinks that Ohnoki has that kind of power, the power to stop something that could destroy the entire narutoverse in an instant, then something is seriously wrong.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:46 PM   #88
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I feel, bored so I will argue with you both--for a page. Well, there is that fact that it was incredibly huge, but I will get to that later

High speed, doesn't mean meteor speed. Even an object of that size moving at terminal velocity would do that. To note, the speeds we are talking about terminal velocity isn't that fast. Meteors can move from 25,000 mph to 160,000mph.

Not neccessarily. It obviously depends on it's size to speed. The meteor filled the sky, meaning it was larger than 6 miles in diameter, assuming a visual distance is 3 miles. Then the question is how close it was to the ground when it filled the sky. That's really hard to say. Onkoki was well above the mountain range. But maybe they were small mountains. All we do know, is that the remains of the meteor cover them all. So this meteor most be 100 miles in diameter. Seems unrealistic, but then again this is Kishi we are talking about. Suffice to say, there would be plenty of time to see this meteor was coming even if moving at 11 km/s.

No, he is definitely higher in the air. Much more than 100 m at least. Again hard to say how high. Could be anything from just 1 km to tens of km. But since we don't really get how long it took him to get there, there can't really be any speed estimate.
If it is big enough you can bypass that, but there is the "talking takes no time" rule.

Again, there difference is the rather slow terminal velocity that would still cover miles rather fast versus miles in a second.

It was moving fast, but was it really moving fast? It was also gigantic.

The problem here is that it should actually get hotter as it approaches the ground. More atmosphere, more heat. You are right in sense, it could cool down ,but that would mean the atmosphere slowing it down to a great extend, contrary to your argument.

Perhaps but you have to be careful.

Not really. Again depends on it's size.

Actually bigger than a mountain. I don't think you know what you mean here, but it is sphere.

Friction isn't but heat capacity is. It's like an amoeba. They can only grow so big before their surface area is much smaller than their volume. IF, a big if, the material of the meteor was such that it could dissipate the heat on the surface to the cool center, it is possible in theory to cool itself. Since it is rock, that is not likely, but should be consider
Your point still stands that it must have slowed down. It was on fire and now isn't. Therefore the friction has decreased. QED meteor is slowing down. Of course, the question is how much did it slow down. And at what speed did it start?

That is true, but if the meteor was moving at 72 km/s and Onoki moved at a tenth the speed, he is still faster than any jet.

If it is a slow meteor; however, maybe it is just an asteroid? Madara may have just pulled one from the asteroid belt and gently let it fall on them. I will admit, that it would take a great deal of speed to bring it over there, why would Madara then slow it down? Given this is Madara, maybe he just formed rock high in the air. The Hokage did form water from nothing that was a big deal. Might as well do rock too.



But that doesn't consider cooling and flow dynamics, and baths, and initial temperature. It could be that the meteor was covered in ignitable material and then it burned off, leaving a less flammable, cooler core.

Pipes have empty cores, i.e air, which doesn't transmit heat very well.

That's really the best you are going to get, it terms of heat transmission.

That's a matter of size, not cooling.

To heat heat the entire meteor up, but not the surface. Of course, one could make a drag argument. The tip might push the air out of the way of the rest of the meteor, less air, less heating.

Yes, but less surface area to mass. It only works for pipes, not spheres. The Chicxulub crater was formed from a meteor of 6 mi in diameter, rater is 110 miles.

We do know that the area the meteor cover was a number of mountain ranges which are all gone. Mountain cover tens of miles. And remember Onoki broke the meteors before they hit, so the crater won't be much more than meteor itself. It has to hit at full speed to make the crater. Onoki stopped it.

Regardless, the meteor must at least be 6 miles in diameter. It filled the sky horizon to horizon.

None of this says the meteor was moving fast, I assume it wasn't. But all this relies on Kishi being physically consistent, which is a big stretch. The easiest estimate is the meteor size >6 miles, but it is inconclusive on Onoki's speed.

Back to the topic at hand. Maybe Naruto if he could keep his top speed, which is a big if. Onoki clearly does not have stamina.
So in conclusion it is a fictional meteor right? Which is why I slowed down on completely comparing it to a real one. The rock itself was actually from space. Given the official description of the jutsu anyways. That means regardless it had to move at insane speed to get there. Most of the time when it would come to a feat like this it will simply be tagged with the object they interacted with. In this case a meteor. The actual mechanics of it all is obviously off. But if you start nitpicking like that fiction becomes massively weaker.

For instance the bullets in op. They are considered bullet timers. Yet the bullets they use can easily be used against them.

As for the size of the rock it was pretty close in size to the drawn mountain that madara sliced. Which is why I say the size of a mountain. I am not actually scaling it to a real mountain

But back to the speed arguement. The jutsu description which suggests he had to pull said rock from a massive distance. Straight up says it had speed on it. But the counter to it is the dramatic scene which puts the feat at odds against itself. So just another fictional scene among many that can be challenged if you want to be literal about this. If you take the regular facts as is and keep the feat simple like it is mean to be Onoki caught a meteor. Which is insane no matter how you look at it.

Though edyl thinks kishi should have killed everyone in his story to make it true.
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:06 AM   #89
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So in conclusion it is a fictional meteor right? Which is why I slowed down on completely comparing it to a real one. The rock itself was actually from space. Given the official description of the jutsu anyways. That means regardless it had to move at insane speed to get there. Most of the time when it would come to a feat like this it will simply be tagged with the object they interacted with. In this case a meteor. The actual mechanics of it all is obviously off. But if you start nitpicking like that fiction becomes massively weaker.
Says the one who first brought in a scientific page to the thread in an attempt to win the argument. You were the one who started the debate using real world numbers from nasa's shuttle reentry, and you lost in that debate.

Wiki isn't an "official description." Canon manga never says anything about space.

If you take out real world mechanics, then you can never compare it to real world things for a narutoverse Vs Earth race.

Also, in feats-based system, we inevitably have to resort to using real-world mechanics. When a person in an anime breaks a piece of steel and a piece of stone, we need to use real-world mechanics to know that the feat breaking steel was more impressive than the feat breaking stone. Without using real-world mechanics for things like gravity, weight, strength of objects like wood, stone, or ice, we wouldn't know if a feat is impressive or not. E.g. "That person was fast because when he ran he created a lot of high-pressure wind." Without real-world mechanics, we can't make that conclusion. You know your previous argument about wind pressure? You can't make that if you deny real-world mechanics.

Bottom line is, if we use your way of arguing, we basically break the BG. You can't make arguments like "Guy is super fast because his punches go so fast they burn up from friction." Arguments like "He sent the guy flying through a mountain and he survived. He is clearly more durable than a regular human" can't be made.

When the strength of objects, the indicators we use for speed, the mass of objects, the force of objects, and other things are no longer tied down to real world mechanics, you have nothing to work with in the BG.

Remember, you were the one who, in one of my first threads in the BG, whined about how feats are based on what an attack does or what it destroys, not how big or flashy or how hyped up it is. What you are doing now completely contradicts that.

Ammy is said to be as hot as the sun, but because the feats of it, what ammy has seen to do and what ammy has seen to destroy, we know it isn't as hot as the sun. If ammy were really as hot as the sun, everything around ammy would be incinerated in an instant. Because this doesn't happen, we know ammy isn't as hot as the sun. We need to use real-world mechanics in order to reach that conclusion though. The same goes for this meteor.

In addition to this, not all meteors move at shuttle reentry-level speeds. Meteors, by definition, is any object that falls down into earth's atmosphere. Speed is not specified. A meteor, could very well be a large rock that just falls down starting at a speed of zero into earth's atmosphere.

It is obvious Madara didn't pull this from deep space. The amount of strength needed to do that is crazy, way crazier than if an actual meteor hit earth. If he pulled it from deep space, the meteor would have to have gone at near FTL speeds in order to make it to earth by the time Madara sent it down.

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But back to the speed arguement. The jutsu description which suggests he had to pull said rock from a massive distance. Straight up says it had speed on it. But the counter to it is the dramatic scene which puts the feat at odds against itself. So just another fictional scene among many that can be challenged if you want to be literal about this. If you take the regular facts as is and keep the feat simple like it is mean to be Onoki caught a meteor. Which is insane no matter how you look at it.
It was clearly a jutsu where he summoned the rock. People in the narutoverse have been known to create flames, water, earth, etc from nothing by using chakra and jutsu. If Madara pulled it from deep space, the pull would have been something on the scale of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 times stronger than the shinra tensie that leveled Konoha.

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Though edyl thinks kishi should have killed everyone in his story to make it true.
No, it just wasn't going as fast as you think it was.
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:21 AM   #90
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:58 AM   #91
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Agreed it was a fictional meteor. I was just wanted to continue the conversation with you. So I stubbornly refused to accept that fact.
No problem as I said before I know people tend to want to be in presence.
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Old 08-31-2013, 12:42 PM   #92
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No problem as I said before I know people tend to want to be in presence.
It is okay DL to lose some now and then



We in the BG still love you for who you are.

Just promise us you won't break the BG with your arguments.
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Old 08-31-2013, 12:50 PM   #93
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12:11 PM So you enter the debate with full knowledge that you know nothing of worth on the subject, and then state you will not make an effort to learn. Way to be poster-boy for blight of the forum. Leave discussions of intelligence to those that have it.

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Old 08-31-2013, 01:03 PM   #94
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GTFO SNORLAX, BABY BOY, MOTHER OF GEORGE, STRIP OF BACON ON WILBUR, AND LYING MAN*****. GOING TO GET RID OF YOUR ENTIRE PEOPLE WITH MY SPIDER ARMY.


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Old 08-31-2013, 01:03 PM   #95
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True you are pretty great. I just want people to notice me so I talk to those that get noticed. I mean my understanding of versus debating is a joke to be honest. I mean I don't even know what WOG is.My entire arguement consist of calling fiction well fiction. I need to do better.
You are right try harder. Though I would really appreciate you stop with this stalkerish fixation you have over me. The is getting weird for real please and thank you.
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:05 PM   #96
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You are right try harder. Though I would really appreciate you stop with this stalkerish fixation you have over me. The is getting weird for real please and thank you.

*pets DL*
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:05 PM   #97
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@ Wooster.

A lot of what you said was irrelevant.

1. Who cares if the entire meteor was heated up from the surface to the center? If the meteor was moving at reentry level speeds, no matter what, the surface would be on fire. Sure, a meteor 200 miles in diameter might not heat all the way to the core, but it would still be a giant flaming ball if it were moving at reentry level speeds. We don't care about core temperature, we only care about surface temperature.

2. The thing wasn't flaming, so it wasn't at reentry level speeds.

3. If it were taken from the asteroid belt, it would have had to have been moving at insane speeds in order to get back to earth in time. The distance between earth and the asteroid belt is fairly large, and Madara was able to summon the "meteor" in a matter of seconds to a matter of minutes. Bringing up the asteroid belt was pointless.

4. Yep, it had to be summoned, just like how the kage summon things such as water or fire, or brought from an area close to earth which is unlikely seeing as no asteroids of that size orbit close to earth. This was already covered in our posts.

5. you can clearly calculate how far away Ohnoki is from the ground and how large the meteor is. Since we know Ohnoki is around 2-4 feet tall, we can calculate how far he is from the ground. All we need to do is count how many Ohnokis it would take to fill up the space between the meteor and the ground.

6. A meteor of that size moving at actual reentry level speeds would destroy the narutoverse. A 50 meter wide meteor moving at reentry level speeds made a 43 mile wide crater in Arizona. A several mile wide meteor moving at reentry level speeds would be like nuking the narutoverse several times over. If anyone thinks that Ohnoki has that kind of power, the power to stop something that could destroy the entire narutoverse in an instant, then something is seriously wrong.
If you have a incurious mind, true.

1. Incorrect. Heat flow.

2.See 1. But there is a difference between possible and likely, which you seem to have not quite grasped. It is subtle, I will grant you .

3. No, there is something called deceleration.

4. Possibly

5. Except the ground is farther away. Which would require knowing how big things are on the ground, we don't. Suffice to say, mountains appear smaller than would appear at a mile height, so your estimate of 100 m is clearly wrong.

6. Silly, small biju bombs are on the order of nukes., they do blow up mountains and multiple mountains. Even the remains of the meteor covered a diameter that easily could be consider on the hundreds of mile scale, all the mountains are gone. That Madara could and Onoki could match that is not unreasonable. Although, I don't think it was moving at high speeds. But using physics is silly, what matters is what Kishi intended, which is size. As an artist, I can image he is familiar with perspective--thus the asteroid is huge and Onoki is somewhere on the order of mile(which can mean anything from nearly a mile to many miles) in the air.
Quote:
So in conclusion it is a fictional meteor right? Which is why I slowed down on completely comparing it to a real one. The rock itself was actually from space. Given the official description of the jutsu anyways. That means regardless it had to move at insane speed to get there. Most of the time when it would come to a feat like this it will simply be tagged with the object they interacted with. In this case a meteor. The actual mechanics of it all is obviously off. But if you start nitpicking like that fiction becomes massively weaker.

For instance the bullets in op. They are considered bullet timers. Yet the bullets they use can easily be used against them.

As for the size of the rock it was pretty close in size to the drawn mountain that madara sliced. Which is why I say the size of a mountain. I am not actually scaling it to a real mountain

But back to the speed arguement. The jutsu description which suggests he had to pull said rock from a massive distance. Straight up says it had speed on it. But the counter to it is the dramatic scene which puts the feat at odds against itself. So just another fictional scene among many that can be challenged if you want to be literal about this. If you take the regular facts as is and keep the feat simple like it is mean to be Onoki caught a meteor. Which is insane no matter how you look at it.

Though edyl thinks kishi should have killed everyone in his story to make it true.
I doubt it was from space. For one reason only, it wasn't moving fast. Fun fact, slow moving asteroids(relative to the earth's velocity) will not strike the earth. Why? Because they will never find each other. If it was meteor, it was moving fast. That brings up a fun fact. How did Madara do this. Maybe he just slightly moved meteor that were near miss and brought them over. This would not require that much energy relatively speaking speaking and there are many many near misses.
I would say you have to think about the author's intent? Does Kishi know anything about meteors? Probably not. But since you two wanted to sound like you knew physics, I thought I argue that instead

I'd say it was much larger than a mountain. Just to note, even a mountain would not fill the entire sky--even at relatively small distances.

I don't think that means anything about Onoki's speed, strength undoubtedly.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:08 PM   #98
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:12 PM   #99
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So, who am I?
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:21 PM   #100
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If you have a incurious mind, true.

1. Incorrect. Heat flow.

2.See 1. But there is a difference between possible and likely, which you seem to have not quite grasped. It is subtle, I will grant you .

3. No, there is something called deceleration.

4. Possibly

5. Except the ground is farther away. Which would require knowing how big things are on the ground, we don't. Suffice to say, mountains appear smaller than would appear at a mile height, so your estimate of 100 m is clearly wrong.

6. Silly, small biju bombs are on the order of nukes., they do blow up mountains and multiple mountains. Even the remains of the meteor covered a diameter that easily could be consider on the hundreds of mile scale, all the mountains are gone. That Madara could and Onoki could match that is not unreasonable. Although, I don't think it was moving at high speeds. But using physics is silly, what matters is what Kishi intended, which is size. As an artist, I can image he is familiar with perspective--thus the asteroid is huge and Onoki is somewhere on the order of mile(which can mean anything from nearly a mile to many miles) in the air.
1. You don't seem to understand the idea that, not matter the size, the surface would have ignited. The CENTER may have remained cold, but the surface would not have. This is chem 101. If it were moving fast, the amount of heat generated from the air molecules bouncing off the SURFACE of the rock would have caused flames.

2. see 1.

3. I didn't even bring up how fast it would be after it entered the atmosphere. I was only stating that, in order for it to come from deep space to earth in a matter of minutes, it would need to move at near FTL speeds. The closest asteroids to earth are fairly far away, and Madara summoned the rock in a matter of moments.

4. stop being the devils advocate. Pick a side and stick to it.

5. chapter 560, pg. 3, bottom left panel, you can see how tall those pillars are in relation to the ninja. Assuming they are around 5-6 feet tall, we can get rough estimates on how tall those stone pillars are. Beginning of Chapter 561, you can see Ohnoki as a small figure under the meteor. and we can see how above Ohnoki is to the top of those stone pillars. Stop playing the devil's advocate. It is clear that we can get some pretty decent ball-park estimates on how far up Ohnoki is.

6. 1, Bijuu bombs are not comparable to nukes. 2. a several mile wide meteor moving at speeds of excess 17,000mph would have destroyed the narutoverse seeing as a 50 meter wide meteor moving at comparable speeds made a 43 mile crater in Arizona.
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