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Old 07-14-2013, 11:19 PM   #1
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Default Pain vrs Sasuke

Pain has all six paths and is at full chakra, he also knows about the sharingan(not mangekyo sharingan) abilities.

Sasuke is alone with full chakra, has the mangekyo sharingan, and knows some of the pains powers. He does not know the almighty push, their resurrection ability, or that thier eyesight is linked.

They are in the natural forests in the land of fire.
no external help can come.
Nagato does not come himself.
No escape for either of them till death.

Who wins?
Good reasons based on feats please.
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Last edited by Weekly Disaster; 07-14-2013 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:35 AM   #2
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

It all depends on the order in which Sasuke kills the paths. Since he has no knowledge a large part of his victory would be based on luck since no intel kills against Pain.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:41 AM   #3
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

The only thing Sasuke doesn't know about is the almighty push.the resurrection guy, and the linked eyesight, as stated in the op, so it shouldn't take long for him to notice how they work
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekly Disaster View Post
The only thing Sasuke doesn't know about is the almighty push.the resurrection guy, and the linked eyesight, as stated in the op, so it shouldn't take long for him to notice how they work
Yeah, Sasuke is one of the more analytical characters in the series. In the most recent chapter, Minato says that Sasuke is smart after Sasuke tells Naruto to analyze the fight instead of entering the fight. We can also see Sasuke's analyical skills when he fights Deidara. He was able to figure out how to disarm Deidara's clay bombs in a matter of minutes.

Even with that though, it would be tough. Pain has a lot of powerful abilities. I think it could go either way. It is a very close match.

Sasuke definitely has the ability to destroy the paths of Pain seeing as normal rasengans are capable of destroying them. Amaterasu, Susanoo, Kirin, and any variation of Chidori would be capable of destroying a path of pain, but they are still fairly fast and there are six of them. If Sasuke can destroy the path of pain that absorbs chakra and the path of pain that can revive people, then I think he will win with a Susanoo.

If Sasuke doesn't destroy those paths, then Sasuke will have a very hard time.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

wait so does he have knowledge on the dog summoning? I see him chopping away till there's like 30 of them and they overwhelm him. even if he does though, only his amaterasu counters it, and that hurts him so he would be vulnerable. Im not sure he can beat the animal path let alone all six
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

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Old 07-17-2013, 08:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

Sasukeeeeee wins!!! arigato
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:11 AM   #8
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by superelephant36 View Post
wait so does he have knowledge on the dog summoning? I see him chopping away till there's like 30 of them and they overwhelm him. even if he does though, only his amaterasu counters it, and that hurts him so he would be vulnerable. Im not sure he can beat the animal path let alone all six
Sasuke isn't stupid. We can see that from his fight against Deidara, Gaara, and in the most recent chapter. He is calculative and he studies the battle. In the most recent chapter Minato called him smart for telling Naruto to stop complaining and study the battle between the Hokages and Obito.
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:32 AM   #9
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

So, say that the Resurrection Path stays back, as usual. Sasuke is facing an assualt of
-multiple summons, including one who splits whenever chopped
-invisible Paths (via the chameleon summon)
-a Path that can absorb pretty much anything in Sasuke's arsenal
-a Path with the ability to shoot missiles and lasers
-a Path with the ability to create a miniature moon and level a village
-a 4 man team who can never be caught by surprise.
And even if, IF Sasuke can manage to kill of them, they come back at least once before Sasuke can even figure out what's happening, assume he'll assume correctly on the first time.
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Old 07-20-2013, 03:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangetsu Hozuki View Post
So, say that the Resurrection Path stays back, as usual. Sasuke is facing an assualt of
-multiple summons, including one who splits whenever chopped
-invisible Paths (via the chameleon summon)
-a Path that can absorb pretty much anything in Sasuke's arsenal
-a Path with the ability to shoot missiles and lasers
-a Path with the ability to create a miniature moon and level a village
-a 4 man team who can never be caught by surprise.
And even if, IF Sasuke can manage to kill of them, they come back at least once before Sasuke can even figure out what's happening, assume he'll assume correctly on the first time.
The six paths of pain can be caught by surprise. That is how Naruto was able to take them down one by one, he caught them by surprise using ninja tactics and combos. He caught them by surprise by using a smoke bomb and a clone that jumped into the air. Using just basic ninja tactics and combination moves, people are capable of taking down paths of pain. This would be feasible for Sasuke, seeing as he has been shown to be very good at executing tactical attacks (look at his fight with Deidara and basically all of his fights as a genin e.g. his first day with kakashi and the bell exercise).

As for the "path with the ability to create a miniature moon and level a village," that places a lot of strain on Nagato and tendo has to wait a very long time before using Shinra Tensei if he uses it to its maximum potential. As for the Chibaku tensei "moon," Sasuke has shown the ability to be capable escaping large attacks. During his battle with Deidara, he was able to teleport himself with Manda away from the giant explosion. He could do the same with Chibaku tensei while Pain wastes his chakra.

It wouldn't be an easy fight for Sasuke, but he definitely has a chance of winning.
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:59 AM   #11
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

Well I don't know. I guess I would go with pain...
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:35 AM   #12
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

Pain has never been shown at full power and chakra until when he beat Killer Bee, Kyuubi Naruto, and Itachi until the plot armor was issued. Full chakra with the 6 paths would be overkill. Pain has more chakra than anyone else. He wiped out Konoha and could still do planetary devestation and revive Konoha in a weakened state. Even current Sasuke can't handle this.

Also, knowledge is a HUGE factor against Pain. Naruto or Itachi would not have survived without it. If Sasuke doesn't have FULL knowledge of Pain then this isn't even a debate.

@ also Sasuke cannot analyse better than Jiraiya. He cannot analyse planetary devastation. He would be able to figure out what Jiraiya did at most, but it will be too late.

Last edited by Kananda; 07-27-2013 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:30 AM   #13
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

EMS Sasuke beats Pain at Mid-Diff
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:59 AM   #14
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

Yeah I mean sasuke can't handle pain... He'll put up a great battle, but not as good as naruto did...
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:59 AM   #15
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

i give it to sasuke. He is smart enough to figure out which path is which. Ameratsu takes care of the summonings. Only one I would worry about is the chakra absorbing path. Since susanoo is all chakra.. Genjutsu would probably be extremely helpful in this.
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:09 AM   #16
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekly Disaster View Post
Pain has all six paths and is at full chakra, he also knows about the sharingan(not mangekyo sharingan) abilities.

Sasuke is alone with full chakra, has the mangekyo sharingan, and knows some of the pains powers. He does not know the almighty push, their resurrection ability, or that thier eyesight is linked.

They are in the natural forests in the land of fire.
no external help can come.
Nagato does not come himself.
No escape for either of them till death.

Who wins?
Good reasons based on feats please.
Only Mangekyou? No Eternal? Hmm, he can't spam enton and other haxx that much then.
Pain takes this. I take Pain's side. Come at me!
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:42 AM   #17
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
Only Mangekyou? No Eternal? Hmm, he can't spam enton and other haxx that much then.
Pain takes this. I take Pain's side. Come at me!
*comes at Maruko*

MS sasuke has some decent speed feats. He blitzed yamamoto at the beginning of the time skip and he was able to blitz Tobi before Deidara could even react. MS Sasuke was also able to dodge a point blank raikage punch by extending one of his susanoo arms.

Sasuke doesn't need to spam Enton and other haxx. He could do what Naruto did for 2/3 of the paths, just do sneak attacks and 1 hit ko moves. Naruto did this with Rasengan, Sasuke could do it with chidori and all of his variations of chidori.

Sasuke can 1 hit ko paths with genjutsu and ammaterasu. MS sasuke was able to use genjutsu to incapacitate Shi, a cloud ninja jounin and one of the Raikage;s right hand men, and Kller Bee before he was helped out by the Hachibi. A non-MS sasuke was also able to punk Deidara twice with genjutsu even though Deidara had trained against the Sharingan genjutsu.

ST is overrated. The massive ST that Deva used was a very large AOE attack that didn't have a lot of concentrated power. It left a lot of people standing. Here is a small list of people who survived the massive ST: Kakashi, Choza, Choji, Konohamaru, Sakura, Konohamaru's friends, Ibiki, etc. ---------------> ST massive AOE, but no concentrated power needed to kill non fodders.

Base-level Naruto was also able to tank ST multiple times, and the 5 second minimum cooldown is plenty of time for blitzing.

CT doesn't have a lot of crushing power, it only has a lot of trapping power. The rocks for CT move up pretty slowly which suggests a weak pull on the rocks. Naruto, Bee, and Itachi were able to have a full conversation before they got anywhere close to the center of CT.

Also, if you look at the chapter where Nagato first uses CT against Naruto, you can see that the rocks hitting CT have very small impacts which suggests that they are moving fairly slowly.
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

lol edyl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edyl
MS sasuke has some decent speed feats. He blitzed yamamoto at the beginning of the time skip and he was able to blitz Tobi before Deidara could even react. MS Sasuke was also able to dodge a point blank raikage punch by extending one of his susanoo arms.
Pain was able to keep up with SM Naruto who's I think faster than Sasuke at the beginning of Shippuden.
Also, Sasuke can keep up with Pain, we all know that, but how does he keep up with six Pains? I mean, MS Sasuke couldn't keep up with Bee's swords, I don't think his speed increased that much.

Quote:
Sasuke doesn't need to spam Enton and other haxx. He could do what Naruto did for 2/3 of the paths, just do sneak attacks and 1 hit ko moves. Naruto did this with Rasengan, Sasuke could do it with chidori and all of his variations of chidori.
But Naruto got pinned even with that. Without Sage chakra he would have died, and Naruto fought tired Pain who had just nuked a city and shortened his lifespan. Sasuke in this thread is fighting full power Pain who's > Pain that Naruto fought. And Naruto won because of Kyuubi, Pain even bound it...he bound that power, Sasuke has nothing compared to Kyuubi's destructive power to take down Pain.

Quote:
Sasuke can 1 hit ko paths with genjutsu and ammaterasu. MS sasuke was able to use genjutsu to incapacitate Shi, a cloud ninja jounin and one of the Raikage;s right hand men, and Kller Bee before he was helped out by the Hachibi. A non-MS sasuke was also able to punk Deidara twice with genjutsu even though Deidara had trained against the Sharingan genjutsu.
But still has hard time doing that while being gravity crushed, raped by 5 animals that are big as a building, rocket and laser spammed, soul sucked etc.

Quote:
ST is overrated. The massive ST that Deva used was a very large AOE attack that didn't have a lot of concentrated power. It left a lot of people standing. Here is a small list of people who survived the massive ST: Kakashi, Choza, Choji, Konohamaru, Sakura, Konohamaru's friends, Ibiki, etc. ---------------> ST massive AOE, but no concentrated power needed to kill non fodders.
It's really a very useful move. It can negate Sasuke's second most powerful attack- Amaterasu. And it can probably blow away Susano'o arrows if he reacts on time.
The ST crushed the whole town, those guys surviving is mangaka's stupidity.
And so far only Naruto could tank it, Sasuke can't. I think even his Susano'o would fly away.


Quote:
Base-level Naruto was also able to tank ST multiple times, and the 5 second minimum cooldown is plenty of time for blitzing.
I thought he tanked it with like 200 clones behind him.

Quote:
CT doesn't have a lot of crushing power, it only has a lot of trapping power. The rocks for CT move up pretty slowly which suggests a weak pull on the rocks. Naruto, Bee, and Itachi were able to have a full conversation before they got anywhere close to the center of CT.
That's because it was used on damn Kyuubi. That's why you think it has no crushing power. Sasuke's a man, he'd be squishes. even if he used Susano'o, he'd get pulled up and closed in the core. Gravity would bust him.
And their talk doesn't mean much here, since Sasuke can't do anything to stop the core, no matter how slow it is. BG arena is like 30m wide, so the whole arena would get sucked.

Quote:
Also, if you look at the chapter where Nagato first uses CT against Naruto, you can see that the rocks hitting CT have very small impacts which suggests that they are moving fairly slowly.
^read above

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Old 08-30-2013, 12:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
lol edyl

Pain was able to keep up with SM Naruto who's I think faster than Sasuke at the beginning of Shippuden.
Also, Sasuke can keep up with Pain, we all know that, but how does he keep up with six Pains? I mean, MS Sasuke couldn't keep up with Bee's swords, I don't think his speed increased that much.
Bee was better at swords than Sasuke, that is just about it. It doesn't prove he was faster than Sasuke. Bee's method of sword fighting was highly unusual and unpredictable. Even Suigetsu, one of the best swordmen in the series, said that Bee was ridiculously talented at using swords.

Attack speed and unpredictability play a big part in a battle, but they are not related to overall movement speed. If we look at Kimimaro's fight with Lee, Kimimaro was able to dodge all of Lee's attacks even when he had a gate open. Lee was moving so fast around Kimimaro that he was created a circular shockwave around him. Yet, despite the fact that Kimimaro was clearly faster than Lee, Lee was able to, for a brief moment while he was drunk, pwn kimimaro. Even though Lee's movement speed was slower than Kimimaro's, when Lee became unpredictable he was able to beat the out of him for a little while. This is like a comparison between Mohammad Ali and Usain Bolt. Mohammad Ali could beat the **** out of Usain bolt, but he can't outrun him.

Also, Sasuke was able to dodge Killer B's "killer 8" attack, a move that he said only the Raikage was able to dodge. Be was already harnessing the 8 tails chakra at this point in the game.

So conclusion: Sasuke is worse at swords than Killer B but is not necessarily slower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
But Naruto got pinned even with that. Without Sage chakra he would have died, and Naruto fought tired Pain who had just nuked a city and shortened his lifespan. Sasuke in this thread is fighting full power Pain who's > Pain that Naruto fought. And Naruto won because of Kyuubi, Pain even bound it...he bound that power, Sasuke has nothing compared to Kyuubi's destructive power to take down Pain.
CT didn't contain Kyuubi Naruto. If you go back to the chapter where he unleashes CT, there is a panel in the bottom left of one of the pages where Deva path is saying "this is unbelievable." The very next page, an 8 tailed naruto is already free.

As for getting pinned, Naruto wasn't paying attention and was screwed because of that. He messed up. Naruto still had plenty of fight left in him. He had 2 sage clones left to use by the time he was pinned.

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Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
But still has hard time doing that while being gravity crushed, raped by 5 animals that are big as a building, rocket and laser spammed, soul sucked etc.
Naruto was able to take out over half of those on mid difficulty. They are pretty easy to isolate and destroy by using simple diversionary tactics. Sasuke is better than Naruto at using diversionary tactics. He's been using them since his genin-bell test with Kakashi. The paths of pain are fairly easy to fool.

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Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
It's really a very useful move. It can negate Sasuke's second most powerful attack- Amaterasu. And it can probably blow away Susano'o arrows if he reacts on time.
If you look at Nagato's fight again'st Naruto, Bee, and Itachi, Nagato was already half-burned away before he shinra tenseied amaterasu away. Also, nagato's base-level Shinra tensei, the one that has a 5 second cooldown, isn't large enough to sweep away large spams of ammy. Itachi, who is worse than Sasuke at ammy, was able to ammy spam away Nagato's summons.

In one of the more recent chapters, we saw that the susanoo arrows are faster than FRS. Sasuke shot one of his susanoo arrows at Naruto's FRS , and it was able to catch up before it hit the Juubi.

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Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
The ST crushed the whole town, those guys surviving is mangaka's stupidity.
And so far only Naruto could tank it, Sasuke can't. I think even his Susano'o would fly away.
Mangaka stupidity=Can't counter it with a logical response. ST, for the most part, has been shown to be a massively AOE attack with little to no concentrated power;. That is just a fact. When it came to busting the city, the main thing that it destroyed was wood. A bunch of people survived the blast. I can say the same thing for a hurricane. A hurricane can produce a very large amount of destruction over a large area, but people can still survive it. It is very impressive, I won't argue that it isn't, but it won't do to much against more powerful enemies that have defenses like Sasuke.

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Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
I thought he tanked it with like 200 clones behind him.
There are other times where he tanked it without clones.

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Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
That's because it was used on damn Kyuubi. That's why you think it has no crushing power. Sasuke's a man, he'd be squishes. even if he used Susano'o, he'd get pulled up and closed in the core. Gravity would bust him.
And their talk doesn't mean much here, since Sasuke can't do anything to stop the core, no matter how slow it is. BG arena is like 30m wide, so the whole arena would get sucked.
We really don't know what is needed to stop the core. Itachi, Naruto, and Bee shot at the core with everything they had just to be safe. We don't know how stable the core is or how much it can tank. It could be well under what Itachi, Naruto, and Bee sent at it.

Naruto said that it is difficult to escape it, not that they would die from CT.

Slow moving rocks with small impacts say otherwise about the crushing power. The impacts that they created were smaller than the impacts of most kicks and punches in the series.



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Originally Posted by Maruko View Post


As I said above, I don't think it would be a certain win for Sasuke, or even an easy win, but he definitely has a chance.
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:47 PM   #20
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Default Re: Pain vrs Sasuke

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Bee was better at swords than Sasuke, that is just about it. It doesn't prove he was faster than Sasuke. Bee's method of sword fighting was highly unusual and unpredictable. Even Suigetsu, one of the best swordmen in the series, said that Bee was ridiculously talented at using swords.
It was clearly shown that even with Sharingan precog Sasuke had no way of avoiding Bee, who wasn't even moving so fast and was in base form.
That's just reaction speed though, but still, he coudn't move at speeds that were shown agaisnt Yamato.
It was just to show that Sasuke's original speed in Shippuden, which was RIDICULOUSLY OVERHYPED at the beginning is not what it seems to be. Sasuke back in the day basically teleported around lolz


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Attack speed and unpredictability play a big part in a battle, but they are not related to overall movement speed. If we look at Kimimaro's fight with Lee, Kimimaro was able to dodge all of Lee's attacks even when he had a gate open. Lee was moving so fast around Kimimaro that he was created a circular shockwave around him. Yet, despite the fact that Kimimaro was clearly faster than Lee, Lee was able to, for a brief moment while he was drunk, pwn kimimaro. Even though Lee's movement speed was slower than Kimimaro's, when Lee became unpredictable he was able to beat the out of him for a little while. This is like a comparison between Mohammad Ali and Usain Bolt. Mohammad Ali could beat the **** out of Usain bolt, but he can't outrun him.
Lee was able to land a hit because his movements were unpredictable and Kimimaro did not kn ow where the hit was gonna land, before that, he had no problem dodging the same speed. Speed did not affect Kimimaro, it was Lee's change in movement style, as you said.

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CT didn't contain Kyuubi Naruto. If you go back to the chapter where he unleashes CT, there is a panel in the bottom left of one of the pages where Deva path is saying "this is unbelievable." The very next page, an 8 tailed naruto is already free.

As for getting pinned, Naruto wasn't paying attention and was screwed because of that. He messed up. Naruto still had plenty of fight left in him. He had 2 sage clones left to use by the time he was pinned.
Didn't Pain use CT to get six tailed Naruto off his dick? Then in the CT naruto went 8 tails. And 8 tailed Kyuubi broke free. ..almost.
Also, changes nothing, CT has huge AOE, dozens of times bigger than the arena of the BG. If he pulls CT it's all over.

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Naruto was able to take out over half of those on mid difficulty. They are pretty easy to isolate and destroy by using simple diversionary tactics. Sasuke is better than Naruto at using diversionary tactics. He's been using them since his genin-bell test with Kakashi. The paths of pain are fairly easy to fool.
He had sensing of nature all around, he had an army of frogs, and two frogs on his shoulders, all of which Sasuke lacks.
Sasuke also has Idk how many times less chakra than Naruto, and he can't really keep up with all that.

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If you look at Nagato's fight again'st Naruto, Bee, and Itachi, Nagato was already half-burned away before he shinra tenseied amaterasu away. Also, nagato's base-level Shinra tensei, the one that has a 5 second cooldown, isn't large enough to sweep away large spams of ammy. Itachi, who is worse than Sasuke at ammy, was able to ammy spam away Nagato's summons.

In one of the more recent chapters, we saw that the susanoo arrows are faster than FRS. Sasuke shot one of his susanoo arrows at Naruto's FRS , and it was able to catch up before it hit the Juubi.
That's crippled Nagato using his crippled body. This is Pain, Nagato's puppet corpse that has healthy body, unlike Nagato who could barely walk.
I said maybe, never said it could.

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Mangaka stupidity=Can't counter it with a logical response. ST, for the most part, has been shown to be a massively AOE attack with little to no concentrated power;. That is just a fact. When it came to busting the city, the main thing that it destroyed was wood. A bunch of people survived the blast. I can say the same thing for a hurricane. A hurricane can produce a very large amount of destruction over a large area, but people can still survive it. It is very impressive, I won't argue that it isn't, but it won't do to much against more powerful enemies that have defenses like Sasuke.
It relally is Mangaka induced stupidity, was just stating that. I mean, ppl die after being kunaid, but no...they survive a town nuke. Legit, KIshi.

The last time I checked...buildings, temples, houses etc. had more durability than humans. I don't know how they bodies were not pushed to the edges of Konoha like buildings were. Suddenly! they're all in ruins of stuff, but a second ago, Konoha was just a flat waste. It is mangaka stupidity, Kishi is a hack. :3
Power or not, the gravity is enough to suck Sasuke, he can't stop the core and has nowhere to run.
That's off topic tho.

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There are other times where he tanked it without clones.
He did? I know he did in anime with Kyuubi 6 tails. Not sure he did without clones in canon.
But Naruto has Senju blood.

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We really don't know what is needed to stop the core. Itachi, Naruto, and Bee shot at the core with everything they had just to be safe. We don't know how stable the core is or how much it can tank. It could be well under what Itachi, Naruto, and Bee sent at it.

Naruto said that it is difficult to escape it, not that they would die from CT.

Slow moving rocks with small impacts say otherwise about the crushing power. The impacts that they created were smaller than the impacts of most kicks and punches in the series.
If Itachi was able to bust it with Susano'o he would have done it, he wouldn't have wasted time chatting with those two, therefore: Susano'o ain't enough.

Last edited by Maruko; 08-30-2013 at 01:29 PM.
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