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Old 03-13-2013, 05:36 PM   #81
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

No.. The meaning is this..

Clay.. It is a pile of clay. It is everything and nothing.

It is everything, because it is with out actull form that can become anything once molded.

It is also nothing as it is not yet molded and is with out its shape besides the pile.

God is nowhere but can become somewhere at any moment.

He is Alpha the leader and can become at any point with his choice the out cast Omaga. It is not contradicting.

Faith? That is a shoice, you always have Logic, but that is somehting you need to do.

As because the God Partical wasn never trully proven to be founded yet that dpes mean nothing and no one knows for sure if God is real.
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The Homecoming King
Spoiler:

You're captain of the football team and are heavily involved in other sports. You actually get pretty decent grades, but most people don't know that. Most girls really really REALLY want to date you, but you don't notice or care for them. They're just fangirls. Like Sasuke.
You have a cool headed manner, and it almost appears as serious. When you're out in the games playing, you're just as serious but extremely aggressive. This is what leads the NDF football team to victory (lol in reality the team would suck ass but lets just imagine it otherwise)
You're popular and a lot of people look up to you and see you as most likely to win "Best All Around" in the yearbook. You walk into a party and everyone shouts "AYYY IT'S COLLIIIIIN" and you get attacked by high fives by your teammates and crew and hugs by desperate females. But most people don't know a lot about you personally because you don't let anyone in a lot.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:40 PM   #82
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

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Originally Posted by -Naruto- View Post
There is no set proof to prove there is or isn't a god. Atheists (if I am not mistaken) exploited this and created a religion that worshiped a flying spaghetti monster (something of the likes) because no one can technically prove that there isn't a possibility for it to exist.

So, what I believe is what I believe, and what you believe is what you believe. My belief has been shaped by my past, and thus I am probably biased. Regardless, I respect all of you guys, and gals, choices.

Have a good day.

Atheist never made it. It was a smart ass remnark. If they actully beleived it then it is a religion and ther for not atheist.

A meaning not and theist God.

Not god as in you do not believe, because you believe you can solve everything with out God.

No one ignored you, you just stated your Opinion. Not facts besides the monster and the wrong of Atheist.

This is a debate in wich you try to use facts not what you beleive and tell us you respect.

Just proof that Gods exist or the concept.

Not say that you are shaped by blah blah blah. But I know what you mean. And good day. Lol
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The Homecoming King
Spoiler:

You're captain of the football team and are heavily involved in other sports. You actually get pretty decent grades, but most people don't know that. Most girls really really REALLY want to date you, but you don't notice or care for them. They're just fangirls. Like Sasuke.
You have a cool headed manner, and it almost appears as serious. When you're out in the games playing, you're just as serious but extremely aggressive. This is what leads the NDF football team to victory (lol in reality the team would suck ass but lets just imagine it otherwise)
You're popular and a lot of people look up to you and see you as most likely to win "Best All Around" in the yearbook. You walk into a party and everyone shouts "AYYY IT'S COLLIIIIIN" and you get attacked by high fives by your teammates and crew and hugs by desperate females. But most people don't know a lot about you personally because you don't let anyone in a lot.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:15 PM   #83
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

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JLI2infinity wrote: It's an attempt at masking people's lack of knowledge about God's nature so that clear contradictions can seem to "make sense." It's another poetic definition that answers nothing. Kind of like "faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things unseen." Things hoped for haven't come to fruition yet so they don't have substance and there isn't evidence for something that doesn't exist in space or time.
i agree. it's a lazy explanation of what and who the christian god is. he is neither good nor evil- alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. clear contradictions but not in the literal sense. it's poetic license to help christians define god as the one and only god who is all things and everything in between. incidentally, christians share this view with other monotheistic religions- the presence of an omnipotent and omniscient god.

in my opinion, humans are just not advanced enough (or far enough in human evolution) to properly conceptualize god. so what do we do? we give god human traits. god knows, god thinks, god judges, god punishes, and god rewards. god also weeps, and speaks. god is also a jealous god and a vengeful god. he is also a forgiving god (as long as you give him gifts). these are human traits that go against the concept of an omniscient god.

Quote:
Kind of like "faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things unseen."
not sure what you meant by this but faith is never used as "evidence of things unseen." i would change this statement to "believing in things unseen."

Quote:
In other words, the word faith is being used as a gap filler for that hole called unknowable. It gives confidence that shouldn't logically exist. The same thing applies to your quote. It basically says God is whatever he needs to be (or whatever his believers need him to be). Thus he can be a God of violence and anger as well as love and kindness. He can exist in the hearts of minds of every creature while not being in our plane of existence. He can be a walking contradiction because he encompasses everything. But of course when someone says "Can God make a rock so heavy he cannot lift it" the common response is that this statement is logically impossible. Yet so is the statement you made.
i think i'd explained in a previous post where in matters of faith, throw logic out of the window. like i said earlier, we define god as an omniscient god. god is supposed to be above and beyond logic. infallible. god doesn't have to process decisions. god wills them, it happens, and it's the right decision. at the same time, we introduce logic to everything god "decides" making god more and more fallible and more and more human. next thing you know, he might have made the wrong decision but we don't question it because he's god. and the more you dig into scriptures, passages, etc., you will find numerous moral and logical contradictions and mishaps.

Quote:
This same statement also opens up the hypocrisy that is everyday "relationships" with God. When it comes to the things that really matter (preventing suffering, protecting innocence, etc.) God's ways are unknowable but we are certain that the things said in the Bible are his divine word.
this i wholeheartedly agree. the term for this is "blind sheep." the funny thing is, you will never see a book in the history of books that has been edited more times by more people than the bible. at one point in time, a select group of people actually got to choose what should be included in the bible for the purpose of painting the rosiest version of god.

Quote:
So as I have said before the Christian God is both contradictory and illogical. I await your response to both my posts.
sorry for responding to your post.. i kinda enjoy deconstructing world views and stuff..
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:32 PM   #84
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

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Shisko Shi wrote: Faith? That is a shoice, you always have Logic, but that is somehting you need to do.
i agree. faith is a choice.

i'm gonna get off track but i want to ask this question, what is your definition of faith? is it believing in the existence of god? or is it believing in the existence of a just god?
i don't think you need to have faith to believe in god's existence. like i said in a previous post, god cannot be proven through science but some people believe that he can be proven through metaphysics and some logic. one logical explanation: "things just don't pop into existence," to which anyone can reply, "then how did god pop into existence?" when it comes to matters of god, overcoming logic is easy.

anyway, faith i think, is a word that should be applied in the belief that god is a just god. god will do right by you- have faith.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:15 PM   #85
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

Faith is neither those, Faith and Logic...

Logic - When used with the CHristianity form it is by your means of using Logic to that as there must be a God. Like looking over a building knowing wehter or not a pool is there before jumping.

Faith - Basicly you do not know, but you choose to beilive so it is like jumping off a building hoping you land safly. Wehter a pool is there or not.


God never 'Pop'! into existince. Life could be Deism where God made the Universe buit left it as not to interfere.

Yea you got atoms and particals and the 'Big bang' (Bull crap) But lets say you use that to say God is fake.. Well for all you know he made that. Maybe God Farted and that is how life was created... We are just one big fart gas.

Also like to point out.. God is not by all means knows everything. You need to use Philosiphy when debating this. A normal Chirstian is to retarted beyond mesure to even talk to. Because I know if God knows everything, then there is no Fre will.

God knows everything > No free will as he knows what we will do, Thus not free will.

God does not knwo everything > Free Will.

God does not knwo everything, just we in his eyes are so predictable that he can guess what we will do. Unless he made us for Shizz and Giggles. XP

Also God can not do ANYTHING he wants.... that is BS. He can only do what in terms that is not Contradicting. As I said above and now...

Can can not do everything. How do I know?

Can God lift an unliftable rock?

God creates unliftable rock, Now he can't lift it.

God can't create an unliftable rock, Still the same.

He can do what isn't contradicting but in a base better then humans like create stuff out of mass and atoms not just 'Poof' I have an earth.


Does this make any sense to you? The best thing to understand any of this is to take Faith and Reason in College.
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The Homecoming King
Spoiler:

You're captain of the football team and are heavily involved in other sports. You actually get pretty decent grades, but most people don't know that. Most girls really really REALLY want to date you, but you don't notice or care for them. They're just fangirls. Like Sasuke.
You have a cool headed manner, and it almost appears as serious. When you're out in the games playing, you're just as serious but extremely aggressive. This is what leads the NDF football team to victory (lol in reality the team would suck ass but lets just imagine it otherwise)
You're popular and a lot of people look up to you and see you as most likely to win "Best All Around" in the yearbook. You walk into a party and everyone shouts "AYYY IT'S COLLIIIIIN" and you get attacked by high fives by your teammates and crew and hugs by desperate females. But most people don't know a lot about you personally because you don't let anyone in a lot.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:17 PM   #86
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

Alpha and Omaga everything and nothing.. that is not contridicting. I just explained it. It is comman sense if you know how to read it.

Most of the Bible was writen by people who used Philosophy and other stuff, they were not a bunch of idiots.
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The Homecoming King
Spoiler:

You're captain of the football team and are heavily involved in other sports. You actually get pretty decent grades, but most people don't know that. Most girls really really REALLY want to date you, but you don't notice or care for them. They're just fangirls. Like Sasuke.
You have a cool headed manner, and it almost appears as serious. When you're out in the games playing, you're just as serious but extremely aggressive. This is what leads the NDF football team to victory (lol in reality the team would suck ass but lets just imagine it otherwise)
You're popular and a lot of people look up to you and see you as most likely to win "Best All Around" in the yearbook. You walk into a party and everyone shouts "AYYY IT'S COLLIIIIIN" and you get attacked by high fives by your teammates and crew and hugs by desperate females. But most people don't know a lot about you personally because you don't let anyone in a lot.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:59 PM   #87
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

Quote:
Logic - When used with the CHristianity form it is by your means of using Logic to that as there must be a God. Like looking over a building knowing wehter or not a pool is there before jumping.
i don't think i get your point. you are almost meandering here sorry.
i think using logic to prove god is very problematic. for example, basic logic requires as an antecedent condition the existence of a maker to prove something exists. using this basic logic, who made the maker? the existence of god goes against logic.

Quote:
Faith - Basicly you do not know, but you choose to beilive so it is like jumping off a building hoping you land safly. Wehter a pool is there or not.
faith is the alamo of all explanations. it's lazy but it's all we got.

Quote:
Yea you got atoms and particals and the 'Big bang' (Bull crap) But lets say you use that to say God is fake.. Well for all you know he made that. Maybe God Farted and that is how life was created... We are just one big fart gas.
that's why they call it the god particle

Quote:
Also like to point out.. God is not by all means knows everything. You need to use Philosiphy when debating this. A normal Chirstian is to retarted beyond mesure to even talk to. Because I know if God knows everything, then there is no Fre will.
i'm a christian (catholic) and i don't get your point. anyway, what makes you say god doesn't know everything? the christian dogma says god is all knowing. did you just start a new religion?

Quote:
God does not knwo everything, just we in his eyes are so predictable that he can guess what we will do. Unless he made us for Shizz and Giggles. XP
Also God can not do ANYTHING he wants.... that is BS. He can only do what in terms that is not Contradicting. As I said above and now..
Can can not do everything. How do I know?
Can God lift an unliftable rock?
God creates unliftable rock, Now he can't lift it.
God can't create an unliftable rock, Still the same.
He can do what isn't contradicting but in a base better then humans like create stuff out of mass and atoms not just 'Poof' I have an earth.
Does this make any sense to you? The best thing to understand any of this is to take Faith and Reason in College.
were you addressing me or JLI2? just so you know, don't take my posts too literally. i use irony and juxtapositions as a style to prove a point.

good job though! let's keep it going.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:03 PM   #88
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

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Originally Posted by -Naruto- View Post
There is no set proof to prove there is or isn't a god. Atheists (if I am not mistaken) exploited this and created a religion that worshiped a flying spaghetti monster (something of the likes) because no one can technically prove that there isn't a possibility for it to exist.

So, what I believe is what I believe, and what you believe is what you believe. My belief has been shaped by my past, and thus I am probably biased. Regardless, I respect all of you guys, and gals, choices.

Have a good day.
The Pastafarians!

There's also Russell's Celestial Teapot. :3
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:09 PM   #89
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

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The Pastafarians!

There's also Russell's Celestial Teapot. :3
presupposition here is that god is italian one things for sure, atheists have a better sense of humor than fundamentalists.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:24 PM   #90
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

The Bible.. You are not supposed to take it to litarilly.

God can not do everything in the world. That is a contridiction.

God does not know everything, Other wise we do not have free will as he would know it before we make the desicion.

The bible also says he whois with out sin be the one to throw the first stone.

Does this mean if I am a saint I can throw stones? No it means we all humans sin, there for we can't not Judge. The stone means judging.
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The Homecoming King
Spoiler:

You're captain of the football team and are heavily involved in other sports. You actually get pretty decent grades, but most people don't know that. Most girls really really REALLY want to date you, but you don't notice or care for them. They're just fangirls. Like Sasuke.
You have a cool headed manner, and it almost appears as serious. When you're out in the games playing, you're just as serious but extremely aggressive. This is what leads the NDF football team to victory (lol in reality the team would suck ass but lets just imagine it otherwise)
You're popular and a lot of people look up to you and see you as most likely to win "Best All Around" in the yearbook. You walk into a party and everyone shouts "AYYY IT'S COLLIIIIIN" and you get attacked by high fives by your teammates and crew and hugs by desperate females. But most people don't know a lot about you personally because you don't let anyone in a lot.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:59 PM   #91
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

Quote:
God can not do everything in the world. That is a contridiction.
cannot or would not? not making sense..

Quote:
God does not know everything, Other wise we do not have free will as he would know it before we make the desicion.
umm are we talking about the same god? coz' the christian god supposedly knows everything (although according to my theology teacher, god doesn't have access to the inner sanctum. he should know, he's BFF with god).

btw god's omniscience has got nothing to do with one's freewill.

also, you've kinda led me astray. i was responding to JLI's post concerning the concept of the christian god. he pointed to the flaws of the christian argument. my contribution is to kinda explain that the concept of god was born thru humanization-- do you see the irony here? i just explained how god was born! mind officially blown. anyway, the crux of your argument is based on your own beliefs.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:31 AM   #92
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

I'm going to be quite honest.

All of you, quote Version, Book and verse when quoting the Bible

That just automatically makes you hard to listen to.

Thanks Infinity for actually quoting it, not saying I'm on your side, but your argument holds more water.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:16 PM   #93
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

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Originally Posted by Shisko Shi View Post
The Bible.. You are not supposed to take it to litarilly.

God can not do everything in the world. That is a contridiction.
What you do and don't take literally in the bible seems to be pretty self serving. You seem only to 'take it' to support you.

And God 'being able to do everything in the world' sounds more like a meaningless statement than a contradiction .
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:34 PM   #94
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

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Originally Posted by erndogzetroc View Post
i agree. it's a lazy explanation of what and who the christian god is. he is neither good nor evil- alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. clear contradictions but not in the literal sense. it's poetic license to help christians define god as the one and only god who is all things and everything in between. incidentally, christians share this view with other monotheistic religions- the presence of an omnipotent and omniscient god.
Agreed.

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in my opinion, humans are just not advanced enough (or far enough in human evolution) to properly conceptualize god. so what do we do? we give god human traits. god knows, god thinks, god judges, god punishes, and god rewards. god also weeps, and speaks. god is also a jealous god and a vengeful god. he is also a forgiving god (as long as you give him gifts). these are human traits that go against the concept of an omniscient god.
Ok then let me ask you this. What is the difference between this omniscient God that can't be conceptualized and the universe itself? We aren't even close to completely understanding the universe. There is so much information, so many processes that science has yet to shed light on. Like let's say 95% of the matter in the universe. So why can't this all be a part of a vast, dynamic universe filled with uncertainty. Why must there be a deity. I may be mistaken but if I'm getting the right vibe from this paragraph it seems you believe in a non-interventionist God. As an agnostic atheist I have completely come to terms with the fact that one might very well exist but in regards to the human condition (worship, services, other religious practices and cultural influence) what purpose would bringing that God up serve. As far as we're concerned he's like the sun or the stars he's just there, nothing we can do about it. And that's probably not the best example because stars affect our physical reality.


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not sure what you meant by this but faith is never used as "evidence of things unseen." i would change this statement to "believing in things unseen."
That was a scriptural quote not my own words. It's something I've heard thrown around in my church quite often as the cure-all to when there is no explanation to a question.

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i think i'd explained in a previous post where in matters of faith, throw logic out of the window. like i said earlier, we define god as an omniscient god. god is supposed to be above and beyond logic. infallible. god doesn't have to process decisions. god wills them, it happens, and it's the right decision. at the same time, we introduce logic to everything god "decides" making god more and more fallible and more and more human. next thing you know, he might have made the wrong decision but we don't question it because he's god. and the more you dig into scriptures, passages, etc., you will find numerous moral and logical contradictions and mishaps.
Ok? How does this weaken my argument about the CHRISTIAN God. The Christian God, according to the Bible, very explicitly details his nature, commands, and emotions to his followers. My qualms were with the existence of the God of Abraham I'm not debating this philosophical concept of God you are referring to. That's the first thing I said when this argument began.

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this i wholeheartedly agree. the term for this is "blind sheep." the funny thing is, you will never see a book in the history of books that has been edited more times by more people than the bible. at one point in time, a select group of people actually got to choose what should be included in the bible for the purpose of painting the rosiest version of god.
Yeah I never took a book on Biblical history but my friend goes to Boston College and he had to, he would always tell me how his professor would point out all the inconsistencies and historical mishaps with the Bible and laugh. Like I said before Christian God is all I'm concerned with. The Bible is supposed to be the direct words of that God so that's what I've been debating with.

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sorry for responding to your post.. i kinda enjoy deconstructing world views and stuff..
Not sure what you mean by "deconstructing world views" but it's no problem with me man. Fire away.


Quote:
What you do and don't take literally in the bible seems to be pretty self serving. You seem only to 'take it' to support you.
@Srhyse Yeah I've said this at least 10 times to various people in threads like these.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:59 PM   #95
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

Quote:
Ok then let me ask you this. What is the difference between this omniscient God that can't be conceptualized and the universe itself? We aren't even close to completely understanding the universe. There is so much information, so many processes that science has yet to shed light on. Like let's say 95% of the matter in the universe. So why can't this all be a part of a vast, dynamic universe filled with uncertainty. Why must there be a deity. I may be mistaken but if I'm getting the right vibe from this paragraph it seems you believe in a non-interventionist God. As an agnostic atheist I have completely come to terms with the fact that one might very well exist but in regards to the human condition (worship, services, other religious practices and cultural influence) what purpose would bringing that God up serve. As far as we're concerned he's like the sun or the stars he's just there, nothing we can do about it. And that's probably not the best example because stars affect our physical reality.
yeah, the universe is just one giant big ball of mystery huh? i just read this morning on yahoo that the higgs boson was just found. so give humanity some credit man. newton found gravity, einstein found relativity and a shrinking universe, hubble found an expanding universe, bugsy found las vegas. we are getting there. i just hope we don't get hit by a meteor before we get there.

you are right though. it's wrecking my brain trying to come up with difference between a god that can't be conceptualized and a universe that is shrouded in mystery. one difference that is glaring to me though is the fact that parts of the universe has been explained by science while god has been proven to be impossibly illusive. maybe that's why we created theology as a separate discipline from science.

i applaud you though for coming to terms with the fact that one can come to existence without divine assistance. it takes balls and some intellectual gravitas.

Quote:
Ok? How does this weaken my argument about the CHRISTIAN God. The Christian God, according to the Bible, very explicitly details his nature, commands, and emotions to his followers. My qualms were with the existence of the God of Abraham I'm not debating this philosophical concept of God you are referring to. That's the first thing I said when this argument began.
it doesn't weaken your argument. i actually agree with most of what you said. i'm just trying to explain how we humans gave birth to god. naturally, we don't like the unknown, hence the creation of an old familiar god. a god with a quick temper who would smite anyone who defy him. as times changed, we decided to soften his image and created a caring god as described in the new testament. therefore i agree with you that the christian god as you described is full of contradictions.

Quote:
Not sure what you mean by "deconstructing world views" but it's no problem with me man. Fire away.
what i meant is just that.. it rubs my buddha deconstructing popular views and cultural norms.. that's just me firing away
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:25 PM   #96
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

Clearly the Jew and Christian and also Muslim God is the same and gave free will.

If he knows everything and what we will do. It is not free will.

Can can not do everything. That makes sense as it is simply said right there. The reason he cannot is because ask this.

Can God create a Unliftable rock that he can not lift?
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:57 AM   #97
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

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Originally Posted by Shisko Shi View Post
Clearly the Jew and Christian and also Muslim God is the same and gave free will.

If he knows everything and what we will do. It is not free will.

Can can not do everything. That makes sense as it is simply said right there. The reason he cannot is because ask this.

Can God create a Unliftable rock that he can not lift?
You present premises, but you do not prove them. The former is easy, and what's already been done. The latter is what has value in doing.

Regarding 'free will' - you seem to be equating being able to know and explain something with controlling it. Is that wise or justified?


Regarding God and a rock - I would also be wary of using paradoxes to 'prove' anything in and of themselves but problems of language in how they're stated. If you're a 'student of philosophy' as you say, I'd read some of Lyotard's work on that.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:59 AM   #98
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

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yeah, the universe is just one giant big ball of mystery huh? i just read this morning on yahoo that the higgs boson was just found. so give humanity some credit man. newton found gravity, einstein found relativity and a shrinking universe, hubble found an expanding universe, bugsy found las vegas. we are getting there. i just hope we don't get hit by a meteor before we get there.
That's just a small slice of the pie my friend. Like I said an explanation of 95% of the matter in the universe is still up for grabs. As well as understanding the link some of the complex fields of physics like quantum mechanics and relativity. Which better help us understand the large scale universe as a whole. You don't have to convince me that science is progressive or amazing trust me, but yes there is a lot about the universe we don't understand and even with things we do understand there are things we can't predict (e.g. the fate of the universe based on the Omega value). So yes the universe is in fact a big ball of mystery.


Quote:
you are right though. it's wrecking my brain trying to come up with difference between a god that can't be conceptualized and a universe that is shrouded in mystery. one difference that is glaring to me though is the fact that parts of the universe has been explained by science while god has been proven to be impossibly illusive. maybe that's why we created theology as a separate discipline from science.
Sounds like god of the gaps argument to me.

Quote:
i applaud you though for coming to terms with the fact that one can come to existence without divine assistance. it takes balls and some intellectual gravitas.
Thanks, I appreciate the compliment but I didn't think it took all that much just some reflection, reading, and an open mind. I feel like if more people were exposed to scientific discussion and didn't have their own personal vices forcing their conclusion in a certain direction, this would be a more common occurence.

Quote:
it doesn't weaken your argument. i actually agree with most of what you said. i'm just trying to explain how we humans gave birth to god. naturally, we don't like the unknown, hence the creation of an old familiar god. a god with a quick temper who would smite anyone who defy him. as times changed, we decided to soften his image and created a caring god as described in the new testament. therefore i agree with you that the christian god as you described is full of contradictions.
Cool with me.

Quote:
what i meant is just that.. it rubs my buddha deconstructing popular views and cultural norms.. that's just me firing away
I didn't think my view was very popular, unless you are referring to someone else or just this discussion in general, that's why I asked why you said that.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:15 AM   #99
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

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That's just a small slice of the pie my friend. Like I said an explanation of 95% of the matter in the universe is still up for grabs. As well as understanding the link some of the complex fields of physics like quantum mechanics and relativity. Which better help us understand the large scale universe as a whole. You don't have to convince me that science is progressive or amazing trust me, but yes there is a lot about the universe we don't understand and even with things we do understand there are things we can't predict (e.g. the fate of the universe based on the Omega value). So yes the universe is in fact a big ball of mystery.
well relativity was a roaring start for human kind, and here's hoping higgs boson will get us closer to the truth. i know much of the universe is made of "stuff" that cannot be quantified with mathematics- "stuff" that skewers every measuring tool that is available to mankind. even when armed with the laws of physics, the universe just keeps going on its own as if powered by it's own motor. i'm not sure if we have the intellectual capacity to really fully know the universe but i'm hopeful. like i said in a previous post, i just hope we don't get hit by a meteor before we get there.

Quote:
Sounds like god of the gaps argument to me.
nah. god of gaps has as much scientific basis as faith. and when you put the two together in a room, play a little barry white in the background, what you get is it's bastard child. intelligent design.

i'm actually a catholic so i should believe in the christian god. problem is, it goes against every fiber of my being to believe in flights of fancy and praying for rain. i want to believe.

Quote:
Thanks, I appreciate the compliment but I didn't think it took all that much just some reflection, reading, and an open mind. I feel like if more people were exposed to scientific discussion and didn't have their own personal vices forcing their conclusion in a certain direction, this would be a more common occurence.
are you in college and working part time? i'm surprised you have much time for introspection

anyway, i should probably change my avatar because we obviously think alike. i wish i was more like PrinceofPeace: god has no mokuton feats therefore he didn't create the earth.

Quote:
I didn't think my view was very popular, unless you are referring to someone else or just this discussion in general, that's why I asked why you said that.
it's 2013. it's not popular yet but as science progresses and rightwing nuts are getting exposed, you will see more and more younger kids adapting the same approach.

my deconstructing world view comment is just me being hasty. i didn't really follow the whole thread and assumed most would be drinking the jesus juice.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:17 PM   #100
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Default Re: Debate the Concept of God, itself.

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Originally Posted by Shisko Shi View Post
Clearly the Jew and Christian and also Muslim God is the same and gave free will.
If he knows everything and what we will do. It is not free will.
Can can not do everything. That makes sense as it is simply said right there. The reason he cannot is because ask this.

Can God create a Unliftable rock that he can not lift?
isn't freewill the ability to make choices on your own? we were just talking about god "knowing" to which i replied in a previous post, god being all knowing has got nothing to do with being able choose on your own.

and then you added this qualifier to your previous statement: "what we will do." so the subject went from simply freewill to destiny.

so is this the question you were trying to pose: if every human has a predetermined destiny assigned by God, do humans have free will?

from which you deduced: since humans have free will, God "doesn't know everything."

that is defining God by paradox. you are not the first to adapt this type of thinking. just turn on foxnews and you'll find kindred spirits there
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