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Old 03-04-2013, 05:50 PM   #1
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Default Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

There is much controversy over whether Danzo should be considered
the Sixth Hokage. The answer to this dilemma is yes. Yes he should.

Now most would say that Danzo was only "Hokage Candidate".
But I would counter this by saying it would be more appropriate
to call Danzo something like Hokage Pro Tempore or Acting Hokage
and since Danzo was the Sixth Person to act as Hokage
(Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen, Minato, Tsunade, Danzo)
that would make him the Sixth Hokage at least Sixth Hokage De Facto
but maybe not Sixth Hokage De Jure. In other words in practice
Danzo WAS Hokage but legally speaking it remains indecisive.

The reason why Danzo cannot be only practically speaking
Hokage Candidate is because Danzo held and used the power
of Hokage and furthermore was recognized as Hokage.

1. Danzo issued a legal decree to eliminate Sasuke--

Of course Danzo has tried to kill Sasuke before via Sai Shaft
but that was done "off the record" and quite possibly illegally
though the legal status of The Foundation's actions is shaky ground.
However after Danzo became the Sixth Hokage de facto he gave
orders to Konoha to hunt down and kill Sasuke. This is something
that only a Hokage can do. Therefore Danzo was Hokage.

2. Kakashi warned Naruto not to argue with Danzo about the
decree as Danzo could land Naruto in prison--

This shows that Danzo had the legal power to imprison Naruto.
Again this is a power only the Hokage can truly wield.
That isn't to say there aren't other people enforcing the law
but if Danzo wasn't Hokage there's no way he could imprison
Naruto legally for disagreeing with him. Danzo is therefore Hokage.

3. Kakashi, a jounin, specifically called Danzo Hokage

Kakashi has a lot of say. He's one of the Commanders of the
Shinobi Alliance. If Kakashi calls Danzo Hokage then so do I.

4. The reason Danzo did not imprison Naruto

Was not due to any legal restraints as there were none with
him being Hokage but rather because Naruto was just that
popular. Legally Danzo could restrain Hokage but not practically

5. Naruto leaving the village was Illegal

This is evident from the fact that Kakashi told Sai Shaft to not
report Naruto's absence to the Hokage (Danzo) and Sai Shaft's
hesitation. Of course Sai Shaft is loyal to Danzo but that
wouldn't explain Kakashi's secrecy. Kakashi, Yamato and
Naruto had to be sly about Naruto leaving the village because
technically they were breaking the law. Danzo's law. Hokage law.

6. Omoi, a Cloud Ninja recognized Danzo as Hokage

Omoi is awesome. But he's also an outsider. This shows
that on an international level Danzo was considered Hokage.

7. Danzo legally read Raikage's letter to the Hokage about Sasuke

Danzo could not have done this without being Hokage.
Shizune recognized Danzo as Hokage and had no choice
but to let Danzo not only read but take actions upon it

8. Danzo went to the Kage meeting as Hokage

9. Danzo was recognized by the 4 other Kage as Hokage

10. Akatsuki recognized Danzo as Hokage and Sasuke specifically
targeted the Hokage (Danzo).


Now what about Kakashi?

Kakashi is harder to say because he was never elected Hokage
by the Fire Lord. Kakashi was recognized as Hokage by Gaara
though. However because Kakashi is cool and called Danzo
Hokage I shall refer to Kakashi as the 7th Hokage.

and Danzo as the Sixth.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

I'll specify later but to cut it short
Danzo as the official 6th Hokage?
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

All of your reasons are sound and well argued, but I think the most pressing reason Danzo is hokage is simple. The Fire Daimyo selected Danzo as Hokage. His decision is crucial, the Fire Nation houses Konoha. And clearly pays the bills, just ask the Sand village about military cutbacks. Similar to modern political era, the civilian leadership(daimyo) controls the military(shinobi).

Sure, the jonin had to "vote" for Danzo as of yet, but it was already realized as a strictly formal level(see Sticky's recitation of all the powers already granted to Danzo). Perhaps the jonin coudl have rejected Danzo, but that would be little more than a vote of no confidence and the daimyo could probably reject it if he so chose.

Kakshi on the other hand was never selected by the daimyo-- he almost did, but sadly Tsunade recovered. Kakashi also never handled any real responsibilities. At best Gaara recognized Kakashi as a spokesman for Konoha to convey messages.

Danzo is the sixth hokage. Kakashi was nothing.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

Quote:
Originally Posted by konoha chimp View Post
I'll specify later but to cut it short
Danzo as the official 6th Hokage?
I didn't say official I said de facto. Big difference.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:03 PM   #5
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

Quote:
Originally Posted by konoha chimp View Post
I'll specify later but to cut it short
Danzo as the official 6th Hokage?
#Winning

I still don't consider Danzo a Hokage, even if he was voted in.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

Seems there's more than enough facts to support Danzo as hokage for the purposes of a forum. He sat in the chair, and did all that stuff sticky mentioned.

It's my opinion that the only people that would be against giving Danzo general hokage rep is if they simply don't want to think of him as such.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

Wooo! Kakashi #7~!
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
There is much controversy over whether Danzo should be considered
the Sixth Hokage. The answer to this dilemma is yes. Yes he should.

Now most would say that Danzo was only "Hokage Candidate".
But I would counter this by saying it would be more appropriate
to call Danzo something like Hokage Pro Tempore or Acting Hokage
and since Danzo was the Sixth Person to act as Hokage
(Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen, Minato, Tsunade, Danzo)
that would make him the Sixth Hokage at least Sixth Hokage De Facto
but maybe not Sixth Hokage De Jure. In other words in practice
Danzo WAS Hokage but legally speaking it remains indecisive.

The reason why Danzo cannot be only practically speaking
Hokage Candidate is because Danzo held and used the power
of Hokage and furthermore was recognized as Hokage.

1. Danzo issued a legal decree to eliminate Sasuke--

Of course Danzo has tried to kill Sasuke before via Sai Shaft
but that was done "off the record" and quite possibly illegally
though the legal status of The Foundation's actions is shaky ground.
However after Danzo became the Sixth Hokage de facto he gave
orders to Konoha to hunt down and kill Sasuke. This is something
that only a Hokage can do. Therefore Danzo was Hokage.

2. Kakashi warned Naruto not to argue with Danzo about the
decree as Danzo could land Naruto in prison--

This shows that Danzo had the legal power to imprison Naruto.
Again this is a power only the Hokage can truly wield.
That isn't to say there aren't other people enforcing the law
but if Danzo wasn't Hokage there's no way he could imprison
Naruto legally for disagreeing with him. Danzo is therefore Hokage.

3. Kakashi, a jounin, specifically called Danzo Hokage

Kakashi has a lot of say. He's one of the Commanders of the
Shinobi Alliance. If Kakashi calls Danzo Hokage then so do I.

4. The reason Danzo did not imprison Naruto

Was not due to any legal restraints as there were none with
him being Hokage but rather because Naruto was just that
popular. Legally Danzo could restrain Hokage but not practically

5. Naruto leaving the village was Illegal

This is evident from the fact that Kakashi told Sai Shaft to not
report Naruto's absence to the Hokage (Danzo) and Sai Shaft's
hesitation. Of course Sai Shaft is loyal to Danzo but that
wouldn't explain Kakashi's secrecy. Kakashi, Yamato and
Naruto had to be sly about Naruto leaving the village because
technically they were breaking the law. Danzo's law. Hokage law.

6. Omoi, a Cloud Ninja recognized Danzo as Hokage

Omoi is awesome. But he's also an outsider. This shows
that on an international level Danzo was considered Hokage.

7. Danzo legally read Raikage's letter to the Hokage about Sasuke

Danzo could not have done this without being Hokage.
Shizune recognized Danzo as Hokage and had no choice
but to let Danzo not only read but take actions upon it

8. Danzo went to the Kage meeting as Hokage

9. Danzo was recognized by the 4 other Kage as Hokage

10. Akatsuki recognized Danzo as Hokage and Sasuke specifically
targeted the Hokage (Danzo).


Now what about Kakashi?

Kakashi is harder to say because he was never elected Hokage
by the Fire Lord. Kakashi was recognized as Hokage by Gaara
though. However because Kakashi is cool and called Danzo
Hokage I shall refer to Kakashi as the 7th Hokage.

and Danzo as the Sixth.
That's just you thinking danzo is 6th hokage. If you want to see him as the sixth, go for it. You making this thread is like a religion debate, you forcing your beliefs on another who has other beliefs like I believe in Catholic and you forcing Christianity on me.

But anyway I am glad he isn't considered a kage(GJ Kishi). Bottomline is he isn't officially a hokage but just a candidate and even naruto wikia says it oh and the anime too lol.

You highlighting the [READ ME] makes it obvious you want people to see the thread and force them to recognize danzo as the sixth. Grow up

Last edited by Harlequin; 03-04-2013 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

What chp did Kakashi call him the hokage?

Danzo was not hokage but he had hokage like abilities. The perfect way to describe his is as a substitute teacher. Tey are not as good as the original and are not the real things yet they can still give homework and send you out

Danzo is not and will never be an official hokage
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

I like how people mention "He's not the Official" when Sticky himself said he isn't.

Read the thread before posting, Sticky didn't say he's the official one.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:53 PM   #11
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi View Post
I like how people mention "He's not the Official" when Sticky himself said he isn't.

Read the thread before posting, Sticky didn't say he's the official one.
Even if he mentions this, he is still considers danzo the 6th hokage(I dont care this part is.fine), though he is forcing this to others and makes an attention wh0re thread(derp)
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

Technically speaking Danzo was partially the 6th... What makes it hard to officially give him the title is that the Jonins never got to vote...

His short term rein doesn't disqualify him, afterall, president william henry harrison only lasted 23 days as the 9th president of the US...but was still considered the ninth..

As long as Danzo's face isn't engrafted amongst the 5 hokage moment of Konoha, he is not quite... but for all reasons Sticky gave, he can be addressed as the 6th Kokage.

All things being equal... that is, if he didn't "shisui" mifune, that responsibility of 6th wouldn't have been taken away from him even with the revival of tsunade.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:19 AM   #13
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

Danzo The 6th?I approve.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:23 AM   #14
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

No he wasn't the 6th Hokage. He was the one running things but not actually the kage yet. Everyone just assumed he would be the Hokage so they treated him as such, they didn't know he would die. The steps to actually being the Hokage are pretty clearly defined:
1. Be put forth by the daimyo.
2. Get votes of approval from the jonin.

Did Danzo finish both of those steps? No. Pretty cut and dried.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:27 AM   #15
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

You don't get your face on the wall, you're nothing at all. Yeah!
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:57 AM   #16
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

Lol I l
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:37 AM   #17
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Michael View Post
#Winning

I still don't consider Danzo a Hokage, even if he was voted in.
Hatred is not a good argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm1977 View Post
Seems there's more than enough facts to support Danzo as hokage for the purposes of a forum. He sat in the chair, and did all that stuff sticky mentioned.

It's my opinion that the only people that would be against giving Danzo general hokage rep is if they simply don't want to think of him as such.
You know it would have been interesting to see what would
have happened had Danzo not died before Tsunade woke back up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakashi Hatake_Yamato View Post
Wooo! Kakashi #7~!
It suits him well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
That's just you thinking danzo is 6th hokage. If you want to see him as the sixth, go for it. You making this thread is like a religion debate, you forcing your beliefs on another who has other beliefs like I believe in Catholic and you forcing Christianity on me.

But anyway I am glad he isn't considered a kage(GJ Kishi). Bottomline is he isn't officially a hokage but just a candidate and even naruto wikia says it oh and the anime too lol.

You highlighting the [READ ME] makes it obvious you want people to see the thread and force them to recognize danzo as the sixth. Grow up
Highlighting the READ ME was an accident.
Honestly I didn't notice that until you mentioned it.

But really if anyone needs to grow up it's you. Your comparison of me "forcing my beliefs" on others is I'm sorry but downright stupid. All
I'm doing is presenting my argument for why Danzo is the Sixth
Hokage De Facto. I have in no way used any force or threat
to "make" people agree with me as you are suggesting.
You didn't HAVE to read this thread (even if I did mistakenly
put down READ ME I don't think you'd have to be a genius
to see it's not a thread that is mandatory reading like
the thread rules or something like that. )

Danzo WAS considered Hokage by several parties in the manga itself.
I demonstrated this already in my opening post. Naruto wikia is a
generally good source but it's not official. And the anime--
you know they had a non-filler episode called DANZO THE SIXTH HOKAGE.
Also there was an entire filler episode (if we are gonna bring up the anime)
about the sculptors gonna sculpt Danzo's mug onto Hokage Monument.
Though sadly they never got to it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
What chp did Kakashi call him the hokage?

Danzo was not hokage but he had hokage like abilities. The perfect way to describe his is as a substitute teacher. Tey are not as good as the original and are not the real things yet they can still give homework and send you out

Danzo is not and will never be an official hokage
Kakashi called Danzo Hokage a few times. Volume 49.

I already said he was Hokage De Facto or Hokage Pro Tempore.

I never said he was OFFICIALLY Hokage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi View Post
I like how people mention "He's not the Official" when Sticky himself said he isn't.

Read the thread before posting, Sticky didn't say he's the official one.
Thank you, Vivi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
Even if he mentions this, he is still considers danzo the 6th hokage(I dont care this part is.fine), though he is forcing this to others and makes an attention wh0re thread(derp)
No, I'm not forcing anyone to read the thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kalmeast View Post
Technically speaking Danzo was partially the 6th... What makes it hard to officially give him the title is that the Jonins never got to vote...

His short term rein doesn't disqualify him, afterall, president william henry harrison only lasted 23 days as the 9th president of the US...but was still considered the ninth..

As long as Danzo's face isn't engrafted amongst the 5 hokage moment of Konoha, he is not quite... but for all reasons Sticky gave, he can be addressed as the 6th Kokage.

All things being equal... that is, if he didn't "shisui" mifune, that responsibility of 6th wouldn't have been taken away from him even with the revival of tsunade.
Again that's why I say De Facto and not De Jure.

He still had the responsibility of Hokage then just not
the international recognition though the other Kages
always had beef with Danzo. Especially the Raikage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kioroshi. View Post
Danzo The 6th?I approve.
Awesome

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKage View Post
No he wasn't the 6th Hokage. He was the one running things but not actually the kage yet. Everyone just assumed he would be the Hokage so they treated him as such, they didn't know he would die. The steps to actually being the Hokage are pretty clearly defined:
1. Be put forth by the daimyo.
2. Get votes of approval from the jonin.

Did Danzo finish both of those steps? No. Pretty cut and dried.
Again the argument is for Danzo being the Sixth Hokage De Facto
or in PRACTICE. Not Danzo being the OFFICIAL Sixth Hokage.

The reason why Danzo was Sixth Hokage De Facto was because
he exercised the power of Hokage. Danzo would be like
Manuel Noriega who was the De Facto ruler of Panama from '83-'89.

My problem with Danzo as just Hokage "Candidate" is that
a candidate does not hold the power of office but Danzo did.
In normal circumstances after Danzo was appointed Sixth
Hokage they would go straight to the Jonin Vote however
because Konoha was technically at war with Akatsuki then
Danzo was granted emergency Hokage powers thus
making him the Sixth Hokage De Facto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joon61 View Post
You don't get your face on the wall, you're nothing at all. Yeah!
Danzo's Monument is still in production

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
Lol I l
??

ALL HAIL DANZO THE SIXTH HOKAGE (DE FACTO)

Fixed the tag thing so it doesn't say read me now.
So now Harlequin won't have to feel 'forced' into reading this.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

so whats the poin? yeah he was a subsitue Hokage but he was not a full on Hokage...that is what we all knew

and so what ONLY kakashi called him hokage. But the jonin still needed to vote and give their opinons. SO Kakashi was jus given espect and did not want to get in trouble

so are we disccussing if he was a canate or a sub?
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:38 AM   #19
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
Again the argument is for Danzo being the Sixth Hokage De Facto
or in PRACTICE. Not Danzo being the OFFICIAL Sixth Hokage.

The reason why Danzo was Sixth Hokage De Facto was because
he exercised the power of Hokage. Danzo would be like
Manuel Noriega who was the De Facto ruler of Panama from '83-'89.

My problem with Danzo as just Hokage "Candidate" is that
a candidate does not hold the power of office but Danzo did.
In normal circumstances after Danzo was appointed Sixth
Hokage they would go straight to the Jonin Vote however
because Konoha was technically at war with Akatsuki then
Danzo was granted emergency Hokage powers thus
making him the Sixth Hokage De Facto.
Or he was just the man in charge simply by virtue of being one of the village elders who had wielded considerable power and authority for years, but just happened to wearing the Hokage garb waiting for the whole process to play out.

Kakashi, while being respectful, didn't act like Danzo was the Hokage, especially with how he handled Naruto and everything leading up to the Kage summit and immediately after the battle.

And who cares what other, non-Konoha people thought about anything since they have no insight as to what's happening within the village. A kage meeting get's called and Danzo shows up, with no Hokage available, he is actually the most logical choice in the village to go.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:00 PM   #20
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Default Re: Danzo The Sixth Hokage De Facto. Or Hokage Pro Tempore

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
so whats the poin? yeah he was a subsitue Hokage but he was not a full on Hokage...that is what we all knew

and so what ONLY kakashi called him hokage. But the jonin still needed to vote and give their opinons. SO Kakashi was jus given espect and did not want to get in trouble

so are we disccussing if he was a canate or a sub?

The general consensus is that Danzo was Hokage Candidate.
My argument is that while this is true it is also incomplete
and it is more accurate to call Danzo The Sixth Hokage
De Facto, that is Hokage in practice as that is what he was.

It's like this, I can say Manuel Noriega wasn't OFFICIALLY
the leader of Panama but for all intents and purposes he was.

So when I say Danzo was the Sixth Hokage I mean Danzo
was the sixth person to be given, to hold, to use the
powers of Hokage and be recognized as Hokage by
both National and International opinions.

And it wasn't ONLY Kakashi.

They may not have all said blatantly DANZO IS HOKAGE
there have been many who at the very least acted as that was the case.
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