Spoiler Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

[Sergoros]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Obito's and Kaksashi's sharigans were connected so when Kakashi killed Rin and kakashi and obito felt the same way since Kakshi gained the MS then Obito did as well because it is connected. chp 397 pg 11. Obito states that Itachi somehow transffered his eye techineues into you. The dearest person to Saskue was Naruto not Itachi so killing Itachi would not have worked...and techinically Saskue did not kill Itachi.Madara killed another not his bro to gain to MS. You are assuming their are multiple ways to gain MS but its just assumign. itachi already told how you got it and so far it has been the only way

Aaaand...transfering via poke? Yep...killing someone dearest or transfering with poke. Common get serious. Thats old info. Thats how this manga works. 1-st we knew, that bijus are demons that wanna destroy the world. Now we know, that they actualy have personality and could be changed to good. Thats how naruto manga works. You can't use old info in arguments. Madara said that itachi transfered techniques. Not ms itself. For techniques to work, you have to be able to use them. Thats same as copying of kakashi. U can copy, but u can't use it unless u have element.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Your the one assuming there was a madara. The way Tobirama said that he was trying to prevent another madara from arising there was no mention of a madara rising or ANBU having to kill you are assuming. Instaead of secretly watching talking to them and becoming allies would have been the better way to prove Madara wrong instead of proving him right.

But u assuming, that everything would be fine without anbu supervision. Thats assumption too. And im showing you another side of it. Right now we can only know, that anbu worked good enough, and thx to them, uchiha rebellion was stopped. What if they all planned to get into some cave and all kill half of the clan? Mby even sasuke was planned for sacrifice? Imagine. Half of the village would get ms. That would have been BAD. What if sasuke father just wanted to get along with sasuke, like sasuke wanted to get along with narutO? To have someone dead to wake up ms.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

really? You just do not believe him now. You are just assuming false info. Your assumption is useless just like mine. There is no proof that Shishi was bad. If we can not trust words then I guess we can not trust anyone's words. Your just making assumptions and excuses to prove ur case correct. Just stick to what has been said and done. This is the record we must go on until there is a change

Told ya already. There is proven words and not proven. Like with tobirama. We see proof on hashirama face. But with shisui... We know nothing. He might have been Good. Like itachi. But still insane. Like itachi.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

3-They obviously did not seen true maddenss when he was actually a spy. He was acting it is what a spy does.
2-His sight was fadding just as bad as Saskue's were. That is why he need new eyes. Itachi caused his own illness to prepare his own death
1-Or love your brother. I would do it for my own brother especially to prevent civil war.

3) There is things u can act, and things u can't. madness is a second. They feel it.
2) Just as bad...not worse. But just as bad. So it wasnt cause of ms backfire. He gotten it for some other reason. And yours could be possible too. It was just assumption. Though...Now u assume, that itachi decided to suicide. So much for him being sane...
1) You only saying it. Go deeper. Saying it and doing it is 2 different things. Your hands just wont move.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Hashirama did talk to the uchiha. The senju went out to the Uchiha to establish peace. What are you tlkaing about bombs?

He knew about them being ill. But never talked with them about their madness illness? U know. It could have been useful to know...if it were true. But no. Its deeper. You can't reason with bomb. It would just explode. No matter what you talk to it.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

I really do starting to not understand you and I cant debate with you if you assume so much....I'm going to bed

U assume no less, U just dont see your words as assumptions )

Still, good night, I hope, after your sleep, ull have more clear head and would understand mine words. I was just showing uchihas as their are. They fine shinobi. But one day they could just explode. Even if u treat them good enough...it still could happen. Cause they unstable.

So...Hashirma way was let them be in village...love them...and hope they wont go nuts.

And tobirama decision was gather all uchihas together and watch over them with anbu. They still can go in ninga academy. They can enter anbu. They can do anything any other shinobi could do. Also, they allways have fixed job as police of konoha, and they loved for being awesome. The only problem here is supervision. But its a little thing, compared to all the benefits they have.

They actualy had no reason for this rebellion. But...eh...thats uchihas. They could get emo on every little thing.

[Harlequin]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Good point...put his eyes are weird they look more like rinnegan due to the sirlz

but what Tobirama said is not entirely true. Afterall look at Itachi and Shishi. I defniently believe what Tobirama said was true yet being one with the uchiha and treating them like they were apart of the village would have lessened the risk.

I agree with TObirama in saying that the more eye power you gain the more evil you become but none of the Uchiha's were going past 3 tomoe. Madara and Izuan were the only ones to directly kill loved ones. And we do not know how Izuna acted. He may have been good if he was level headed enough to give up his eyes for the sake of his loving brother and village

Tobirama did not know the uchiha as well as he thought he did. Maybe he was right about the war time Uchiha but the village civilized Uchiha are a new era(proof is Itachi and Shishi)

Awaits Seroros's response

Very true.

I don't believe izuna would willingly give up his his eyes just like that to madara especially since gaining the MS turns you insane. Since in the latest chapter hashirama is explaining his past to sasuke, I believe we will soon find out what really happened to izuna. I think madara forcefully took his eyes out.

Also I don't believe killing a loved.one is the only way to gain MS. Check shisui for instance, although it is currently unknown how he gained the MS but he didn't seem to go nuts like other uchiha who gained the MS. He was an uchiha that followed the senju's will of fire. He might've gained the MS a different and clean way.

[mrsticky005]

Yep Tobirama sounded like a wise hokage with his idea of alliance and leaving your emotional baggage at the door. It kinda reminds me of another Hokage namely...

Danzo

[Sergoros]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Yep Tobirama sounded like a wise hokage with his idea of alliance and leaving your emotional baggage at the door. It kinda reminds me of another Hokage namely...

Danzo

True. Still. Danzo was to hot headed. Sounds impossible...but true. He wasnt at tobirama level. He failed so much times... And failed on being emotionless. He let sasuke live. He let itachi live. He was to eager to become hokage. And failed there too. He even didnt help village against pain. His ego was higher then village. Thats Danzo problem.

[Harlequin]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Yep Tobirama sounded like a wise hokage with his idea of alliance and leaving your emotional baggage at the door. It kinda reminds me of another Hokage namely...

Danzo

How is danzo a hokage?

*ahem* candidate *ahem*

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Sergoros

True. Still. Danzo was to hot headed. Sounds impossible...but true. He wasnt at tobirama level. He failed so much times... And failed on being emotionless. He let sasuke live. He let itachi live. He was to eager to become hokage. And failed there too. He even didnt help village against pain. His ego was higher then village. Thats Danzo problem.

Yes and no.

He did fail to be completely emotionless but not from the examples
you stated. Letting Sasuke and Itachi live was most definitely NOT
because Danzo let his emotions get in the way. Sasuke got to live
because he knew nothing of the truth. He was innocent.
Danzo's plan was always to keep Sasuke and Naruto on the short
leash. Itachi was allowed to live because he was the scapegoat
and more importantly the Konoha spy in Akatsuki.

Danzo didn't help the village because it was his plan to get rid of Tsunade.
Danzo knew the village would survive and was willing to make sacrifices.

where he failed to be emotionless was with him trying to outdo Hiruzen.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

How is danzo a hokage?

*ahem* candidate *ahem*

Kakashi called him Hokage.

I believe Kakashi over you.

[Harlequin]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Kakashi called him Hokage.

I believe Kakashi over you.

Yah and sai told anbu root that kakashi is the next hokage before both danzo and kakashi officially took seat as hokage.

If I remember correctly, kakashi was closer than danzo to be appointed as hokage as he was present in the meeting with the konoha council and fire daimyo before tsunade woke up.


I believe the fire daimyo and konoha council over you.

[Sergoros]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Letting Sasuke and Itachi live was most definitely NOT because Danzo let his emotions get in the way. Sasuke got to live because he knew nothing of the truth. He was innocent.
Danzo's plan was always to keep Sasuke and Naruto on the short
leash.

Tobirama would have killed sasuke. Thats it. Uchiha is no more dangerous enemy clan. Only 1 boy and itachi. Not so hard to deal with. And u will get no more evil madaras. Fair deal.

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Itachi was allowed to live because he was the scapegoat and more importantly the Konoha spy in Akatsuki.

Yes and no . yes. He was usefull that way. But tobirama would have killed him. To finish this genocide and close evil uchiha bloodline.

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Danzo didn't help the village because it was his plan to get rid of Tsunade.
Danzo knew the village would survive and was willing to make sacrifices.

Thats a problem. Tobirama wouldn't have sacrificed villagers for his ego. He would have fought with them. He isn't political egoist. His priority is village. Nothing else.

[PrinceofPeace]

It’s TRUE! I am using actual facts. You think someone that Saskue said he hated and killed his clan is who he held dearest? Saskue did not even Kill Itachi. If You got the MS seeing the death of a loved on then Saskue would have gotten the MS when his clan died.MS is a dojutsu it is a tecnquie in itself. You are assuming that Itachi’s death triggered the MS but Itachi gave it to him.
How is it an assumption? If they did not do anything bad under watch when they did not know about it until later so they were being nice and not acting. Nobody tried to get the MS and no emotional issue happened. So how is it diferent if they wre not under watch. You say “what if” but that is assuming. There was no plan to kill half of the clan and you have no proof.
As of right now shisui is a good person. You have NO PROOF that he is not. Until we get information that says differently than Shisui was a good guy. Even Danzo believed that cuz Danzo had to steal his eyes and Shishi gave his other eye to Itachi. That is good action that were proven

3) There is no proof that they said “oh yeah we see your mad” They saw that he killed his own clan and that was Itachi faking his madness. Even in Itachi vs Sasue Itachi was just faking his madness
2) Itachi killed himself so Saskue’s vengeance quest would end and that Saskue would be a hero. Itachi was not insane
1) so you would not kill your own clan to save the lives of the village people?
We do not know when they realized this “mental condition” and Hashirama treated them fine. He did not need to talk with them. He did not organize a new system or keep watch of them. Hashirama knew how to treat them and told Tobirama yet TObirama did not listen and with Tobirama they started to act up. Tobirama cant go behind a bombs back that makes it more likely for it to be explode cuz the bomb has a reason to explode


What have I assumed?
You assume that they were going to kill half of the clan and that Shishi was evil. You say this wtihtou any proof

That one day only happened to Obito. Obito went full on crazy in one day but for Saskue and Madara it was over time. For the rest of the clan that one day never happened.
YOU are wrong. Uchiha’s were not allowed to be in the ANBU. Itachi was the only excpetion cuz he was a spy. Uchiha’s were in charge of the police force and not the ANBU because anbu were watching Uchiha.What benifets? They were distanced from the village and watched over. They were treated as if they were not trusted. There was no love or comprimsie just TObiramam barking orders. Their reason was that their leader was right in what was going to happen there was no trust and the senju belittle them

Sticky and Wooster LOVE themseleves some Danzo...but in reality he was NOT the Hokage (officially) He was just a subsitute

[Harlequin]

I agree that itachi isn't insane but he didn't kill himself L-M-F-A-O!!!

He died through his illness. He survived this long because of the use of medical drugs and sheer willpower till his planned fight with his brother.

[Sergoros]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

You think someone that Saskue said he hated and killed his clan is who he held dearest? Saskue did not even Kill Itachi. If You got the MS seeing the death of a loved on then Saskue would have gotten the MS when his clan died.MS is a dojutsu it is a tecnquie in itself. You are assuming that Itachi’s death triggered the MS but Itachi gave it to him.

Then go and find the proof, that itachi gave MS to sasuke. Nope. Madara said only techniques. So here we go. Whatever you say above that is assumption. Nothing more. And...since you already assume, that there is 1 more way to get ms (via poke...rofl)...we have 1 more way to get ms, that not described in the instruction. So its possible to get it any other random way. Since instruction didnt describe all methods. There might exist thousands other methods. Btw. Here another method. Like itachi put actual ms eye into crow. So here we go with 3-rd method, that wasnt described by your official ms instructions.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

How is it an assumption? If they did not do anything bad under watch when they did not know about it until later so they were being nice and not acting. Nobody tried to get the MS and no emotional issue happened. So how is it diferent if they wre not under watch. You say “what if” but that is assuming. There was no plan to kill half of the clan and you have no proof.

You say, that nothing happened under anbu watch. We have no such info. We have no info of something happening. But we have no info of something NOT happening. So here u go. You assume, that nothing happened under anbu watch. What if they already stopped 10 potential madaras, and we just not informed about it?

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

As of right now shisui is a good person. You have NO PROOF that he is not. Until we get information that says differently than Shisui was a good guy. Even Danzo believed that cuz Danzo had to steal his eyes and Shishi gave his other eye to Itachi. That is good action that were proven

You can be good. But still mad. Like itachi. After all... Shisui worked against his clan. Some people might consider it crazy.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

3)2)1)

3) Eh...You should read your own post about someone others shoes. I think u wont get it untill u feel it. You can't fake such eyes. He is in madnes. And akatsuki can feel it. Cause they mad themselves. He just so good to have some control on it. Thats what makes him look good. He is like doctor from soul eater.
2) Self sacrifice is insanity too. Read some books about it ^^.
1) Again about shoes. 1 thing is thinking about how epic hero you would be. And other thing is actually doing it. Its Waaaay harder, then you imagine it. To hard for sane person.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

We do not know when they realized this “mental condition” and Hashirama treated them fine. He did not need to talk with them.

Hashirama knows about mental condition. Since he knows, he learned it when he was alive. So why didnt he tell it to them? Common. I wont even assume anything. YOU explain it to me. Why great Hashirama didnt tell uchiha clan such vital information about their mental health? You assume, that he found a way to treat it. Wrong. If he found - he would tell it tobirama. And tobirama would agreed, cause if its effective > you should use it. Most likely Hashirama said smth like naruto "If we love em enough, they would get good!!!!" or some crap like that. Sure, it wont work. Thats just to stupid. So now again. Explain.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

What have I assumed?
You assume that they were going to kill half of the clan and that Shishi was evil. You say this wtihtou any proof

Read my posts them. I point quite often, what you assume. And i never said, that shisui was evil. Mad, crazy? Yes. Evil? No.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

That one day only happened to Obito. Obito went full on crazy in one day but for Saskue and Madara it was over time. For the rest of the clan that one day never happened.

Obito - one day. Sasuke - "hey! Im sooooo good! Naruto! Go 1v1? Wow!!Im so great....such small hole...rofl...naruto noob! ?!!!!!! HAX!!!! IT ATTKS INSIDE?!!!!! OH nouuu...im weak...need to go to oro and learn."
Madara - we know nothing. Shisui - we know nothing. Itachi - we know nothing. Izuna - we know nothing. We can only assume. And assumption can go both sides.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

YOU are wrong.

Who cares about senju? Their dead. Some more decades and uchiha would pwn all other villagers with their charisma jutsu. Look how all girls was for sasuke. All tribune on the chunnin exam was for sasuke. They already was village favorite. If they had nothing to hide - they shouldnt have problems with supervision.

[PrinceofPeace]

So after learning Itachi was a good guy the whole time saskue got MS. The MS was given to him by Itachi.

It would have been mentioned that something happened by eel tobirama to help prove his point.but it's a stalemate so let's drop this point since both sides assume. Toni or Itachi or saskue's dad or tobirama all had chances of mentiomg an annual killing an uchiha or vice versa but nothing was said about it. Nothing was said that the uchiha have done anything wrong since ,Adana. Your just assuming. Nobody said that madara kissed hashirama so I can assume its true Cruz it has not been denied?????nobody said madara kissed hashirama so it did not happen. Nobody said the uchiha caused trouble since madara so it did not happen. This would have been mentioned

And those some people are wrong. Itachi and shishi went against their clan to keep peace and prevent a civil war. That is a sane way of thinking

3-you are the only one who thinks Itachi is mad. You are assuming he is and that being crazy is a requirement to be in the organization. You have no proof that they saw madness in him
2-so heros like obito would barely had the sharigan are crazy? Every shinobi like that gave up their life like tobirama, hiruzen, 3RK, kakashi, and jiryria are all crazy???
1-I would do anything to prevent war I'm my hometown. Don't tell me what I would not do. I would not let others suffer war. If I could save hundreds of lives and take a few I would.

Hashirama knew the cure was to leave them be which hashirama told tobirama to do but tobirama did not listen and this called problems

How was shishi crazy? Self sacrificing and preventing war is not crazy.

That is not what drove saskue crazy. It was hearing the truth about his brother. Saskue always wanted more power and to kill his brother. Nothing changed he just realized the leaf was not making him stronger. He took advantage if Oro and got him to train himself and then he killed Oro. Saskue was no different from the beginning to your example

Senju are not dead. The supervision broke trust and belittled them

[Sergoros]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

So after learning Itachi was a good guy the whole time saskue got MS. The MS was given to him by Itachi.

U mean...he felt the high pain of knowing what rly happened and gained ms? Ty for agreeing with mine point ^^.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

This would have been mentioned

[sarcasm] There is no mentioning of madara banging any girl. Madara was virgin? What a shame. Mby it made him mad psycho. Especially after hashirama making fun of him all the time. [/sarcasm]
We know nothing about anbu activity with uchiha. So we can't assume anything. But u still trying to push your assumption of uchiha being a good boys this whole time.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

And those some people are wrong. Itachi and shishi went against their clan to keep peace and prevent a civil war. That is a sane way of thinking

Who knows. What u need peace for? For your relatives to live happily. But if u kill them... What would you be left with? All the dearest to you is dead. Even children.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

3-you are the only one who thinks Itachi is mad. You are assuming he is and that being crazy is a requirement to be in the organization. You have no proof that they saw madness in him
2-so heros like obito would barely had the sharigan are crazy? Every shinobi like that gave up their life like tobirama, hiruzen, 3RK, kakashi, and jiryria are all crazy???
1-I would do anything to prevent war I'm my hometown. Don't tell me what I would not do. I would not let others suffer war. If I could save hundreds of lives and take a few I would.

3) ill drop this point. I just can't prove it to you untill u feel it yourself.
2) Thats another way of self sacrifice. They died in the fight. They didnt lose intentionally. They fought to the last bit of their strength left. But dieing without the fight, for some possible idea...its crazy.
1) Again. No reason to argue. You obviously wont understand it untill you feel it. Even killing a crazy murderer you know nothing about is hard. Because you rdy to take his life. And you ready to kill your own mother, that loved you to the last second. For the greater good. Thats not so easy.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Hashirama knew the cure was to leave them be which hashirama told tobirama to do but tobirama did not listen and this called problems

Prove it to me. You assuming here. Your assumptions are bad, and you should feel bad.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

How was shishi crazy? Self sacrificing and preventing war is not crazy.

We know nothing about shisui. Only that he was good shinobi. Like itachi. Itachi was crazy, as i explained. So, trusting tobirama words, that hashirama agreed on, ms makes you go nuts. Here you go. Thats wy I assume, that he had some crazy traits. Like itachi.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

That is not what drove saskue crazy. It was hearing the truth about his brother. Saskue always wanted more power and to kill his brother. Nothing changed he just realized the leaf was not making him stronger. He took advantage if Oro and got him to train himself and then he killed Oro. Saskue was no different from the beginning to your example

Again. Hokage line of sight. We have good shinobi...well...he is uchiha...but he acts fine. Completes missions, fights off evil. He even didnt join orochimaru, when he had chance... and one day...only cause naruto attk was stronger then his....here we go. Sasuke decided to betray village and kiss oro. Sure. Nothing changed. Good old Sasuke.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Senju are not dead. The supervision broke trust and belittled them

Common...whats left of them? Tsunade? She even to old to give birth. A few more years and bb senju.
And about trust...they act like kids or women. Oh noooouuu! My trust is crashed! NOW ILL DESTROY YOU!!!!" Like you said....they could have talked it out. Like..." Hey hokage...we noticed your supevision...its kinda useless and annoying! We are good guys and wont go crazy....so...pls take it off? Pretty pls?". But instead of proving their sanity they acted as a kids and started rebellion. Srly?

[PrinceofPeace]

Agreed, and this is the point Saskue looses it and becomes cra-cra right when he gets MS. He gets a totally new mission and acts differently.

what we know is that the ANBU watched them and the Uchiha found it. So you dont think it is odd that when TObirama and Oro and Obito and Itachi talked about this event they did not say that the Uchiha did anytihng wrong?

Yet the other vilagers got to live! Those were many more lives saved thanks to Itachi.

1-3 Itachi is not insane.Ever since he was little even the 3HK said that he thought like an Hokage. He killed himself so his bro would go back to the leaf and be a hero. He killed his clan so others could live. He joined the akaskui as a spy. If you think Itachi was insane then you dont know Itachi.

The proof is that Hashirama did not mess with them and Tobirama did. Hashirama told Tobirama not to create ET and to provoke the Uchiha. it was chp 619-620

what part of SHishi is crazy? We know a lot about him of how Danzo stole his right eye and Shisi gave his life to stop the coup and gave his other eye to Itachi so he could also stop the coup

What do you mean? Saskue did not kiss oro he KILLED Oro. He did not betray the village he just left to go kill his brother who was an enemy of the leaf. He was level-headed. He knew he could only get stronger with Oro no the leaf.

No Tobirama needed to talk to the Uchiha BEFORE watching them and the police thing. By talking it out and forming a bond they could have prevented all of this from happening. It was not just trust cz Madara's predictions came true and the senju did not treat the Uchiha fairly or equally they were overpowering them

[Sergoros]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

what we know is that the ANBU watched them and the Uchiha found it. So you dont think it is odd that when TObirama and Oro and Obito and Itachi talked about this event they did not say that the Uchiha did anytihng wrong?

Tobirama and oro might have knew nothing. Thats top secret info. Tobirama might have died before it happened, and oro might have never knew it.
Obito is very young. He is kakashi age. And he was as young as sasuke, when he "died". So most of top secret info was hidden from him. Itachi never tells to much. He know many. But he never tells everything.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Yet the other vilagers got to live! Those were many more lives saved thanks to Itachi.

So...basicaly...Tobirama would have been good person, if he killed the whole uchiha clan in his time? U know...many people wouldnt have died cause of it. Today. Like all the war wouldnt have started. Heh. Naruto would still have his family alive...and etc and etc... Or...by your point...Mby itachi should have tryed to talk with other uchihas? You know...you telling me they all sane and logical and would listen. Right?

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

1-3 Itachi is not insane.Ever since he was little even the 3HK said that he thought like an Hokage. He killed himself so his bro would go back to the leaf and be a hero. He killed his clan so others could live. He joined the akaskui as a spy. If you think Itachi was insane then you dont know Itachi.

Id say You dont know itachi. You know his easy outer side. Hero like deeds and etc. But you dont know whats inside his head. How much evil he should ward off every day. How much though comes through his mind... He is insane. But his mind is stronger, then his emotions. And...as i remember...he gotten sharingan at very young age? Mayby same day he started to act like grown up? Who knows. Sasuke trauma kicked off only few years later and he gained sharingan at fight with haku. So..if itachi gained sharingan at your age...how much younger he was, when he get his trauma? Ill even assume here, that its possible, that some person, dear to him, gone insane and was killed by anbu. Why not? It would explain many things.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

The proof is that Hashirama did not mess with them and Tobirama did. Hashirama told Tobirama not to create ET and to provoke the Uchiha. it was chp 619-620

It doesnt mean. That he knew cure to their illness. He might as well just decided to ignore it. Naruto would do the same. "hey raikage. Pretty pls dont kill sasuke! I gay love him!"

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

what part of SHishi is crazy? We know a lot about him of how Danzo stole his right eye and Shisi gave his life to stop the coup and gave his other eye to Itachi so he could also stop the coup

Also we knew, that madara killed his brother. Then we knew, that izuna willingly gave his eyes. Story depends on storyteller. If madara won the battle against hashirama, we would have story about evil hashirama trying to take over the world. Untill we see flashbacks with shisui backstory...we can't assume anything about him.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

What do you mean? Saskue did not kiss oro he KILLED Oro. He did not betray the village he just left to go kill his brother who was an enemy of the leaf. He was level-headed. He knew he could only get stronger with Oro no the leaf.

On the way of leaving village....he nearly killed naruto...because it could have made him stronger. He even could have done it...if not for naruto regenerative powers. After all....he made a big hole in naruto. Sure. That was his masterplan.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

No Tobirama needed to talk to the Uchiha BEFORE watching them and the police thing. By talking it out and forming a bond they could have prevented all of this from happening. It was not just trust cz Madara's predictions came true and the senju did not treat the Uchiha fairly or equally they were overpowering them

Why uchihas can't talk? Their ability to talk was sealed forever? Why its so bad of tobirama, to take some defensive measures without telling them? in case, of madara emergency. But its fine to organize emo rebellion without any talk for uchihas?

[PrinceofPeace]

Madara knows everything about obito and the uchiha. Madara would have told obito who would tell saskue. The uchiha did not do anything wrong

Your joking. Tobirama could not kill all of the uchiha. Even if he did the hokages would look bad. It was not the uchihas who needed a talking to. It was both konoha and the uchiha. Danzo forced Itachi to either kill his clam or be killed with his clam.

Itachi was born in a time if war so with the tragedy of war he got to sharigan early. You say you know Itachi yet you have no proof.what was inside his head was to protect the village and his brother. You assume too much. Everything Itachi did was to help saskue and the village.

As long ad you live and peace and don't provoke the uchiha from the beginning then everything is okay. They would not get MS and fall to futher evil

Read chp 590 that is the truth if shishi and madara did not kill his brother. Itachi does not know madara's story only madara does

No naruto got in the way. Saskue was going to kill him and get MS but saskue changed his mind. He choose not to walk on that path of evil

There was no madara if they just talked

[Sergoros]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Madara knows everything about obito and the uchiha. Madara would have told obito who would tell saskue. The uchiha did not do anything wrong

Madara knows many. yes. He have zetsu spyes everywhere. Yes. But it doesnt mean he spyed on uchihas and what happened with his old clan. Also its still possible, that he missed it. He is not omniscient. So its still possible he didnt know. Also its still possible, even if he knew, he didnt tell it to obito. Because he seen no need for it. Obito already was in his grasp. Obito is just a puppet. Puppet doesnt need to know everything.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Your joking. Tobirama could not kill all of the uchiha. Even if he did the hokages would look bad. It was not the uchihas who needed a talking to. It was both konoha and the uchiha. Danzo forced Itachi to either kill his clan or be killed with his clan.

But if rebellion was stopped, there would be no need for genocide. Just go talk with them. And here we go. Hey Sandaime! Everything fine! Uchiha ready to talk! Itachi knew, that talking with uchiha is useless. Same as Tobirama knew it.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Itachi was born in a time if war so with the tragedy of war he got to sharigan early. You say you know Itachi yet you have no proof.what was inside his head was to protect the village and his brother. You assume too much. Everything Itachi did was to help saskue and the village.

But not his own clan. Only his little brother. Not all children of uchiha. Only his brother. Thats not very sane person decision. Mby adult was already in darkness. Ok. But all uchiha children too? No hero would kill children so easy. No sane hero. At least.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

As long ad you live and peace and don't provoke the uchiha from the beginning then everything is okay. They would not get MS and fall to futher evil

Told ya already. There is no way they wont be provoked. Their emo state is children like. They would explode on every little thing. Like I already implied, you can't live in a real world, if after every provocation you go insane. Thats not right.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Read chp 590 that is the truth if shishi and madara did not kill his brother. Itachi does not know madara's story only madara does

Ty for chapter. I remember now. Now try to gouge your own eye, with your own hand, out of socket and give it to someone. Thats insane!

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

No naruto got in the way. Saskue was going to kill him and get MS but saskue changed his mind. He choose not to walk on that path of evil

But first he made Big Death Hole in naruto chest. Sure. If not for fox, naruto would be dead already. Sure. Not betrayal. Also...changed his mind. Yep...so uchiha like... "Im good...No! KIll HIM!!! I NEED MY PRECIOUS!!! No! Let him live! Im good! PReCIOUS!!! KILL!!!"

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

There was no madara if they just talked

U still didnt answer my quiestion there. Why its cool for uchiha to organise rebellion, without talking, but not fine with tobirama, to organise defensive measures, without talking, agaisnt obviously unstable part of his village?

[PrinceofPeace]

Of course Madara spied on his clan/village. How else would Obito or Madara know about what happened with their village during the reign of Tobirama and the other hokages. YOU ARE ASSUMING WAY TO MUCH. You assume even when there is already proof. Of course Madara knew about and spied on his clan. Obito did not just fall into his lap he knew of him and the situation of the clan. So your saying that Madara the leader of the uchiha and Obito and a zetsu that was the best at getting info would not know that the Uchiha did something bad? That is a huge assumption. That is HIGHLY unlikely.Even if he knew or did not tell anyone so what? Itachi and Saskue and Tobirama and Hiruzen still had their chance to say the Uchiha did something bad. You can just assume it did not happen just because it was not said to make you seem reight. UCHIAH DOING SOMETHING BAD IS VITAL INFORMATION THAT WOULD NOT BE LEFT OUT. TObirama would have used it to show Saskue how bad they were. Your assumption is not a good one. It was not mentioned so you can not assume it happened. THat is THAT

Yes talking to the Uchiha was useless then because they were already provoke which is why shishi (A SANE PERSON) wanted to use koto on them so they would calm down yet Danzo an INSANE person without a sharigan ruined that plan. Itachi not only could not talk with the uchiha to clam them down but he could not talk with Danzo or the other elders to calm them down. Hiruzen was the ONLY person that would listen and comprimise with Itachi. Tobirama needed to talk with them from the GET-GO

So I guess your calling Danzo insane! It was Danzo who commanded Itachi to either die with his clan and risk causing a war or killing everyone Except his beloved brother. Yes I agree Danzo was co-co bananas! Itachi was the puppet being used. He killed his clan and spared his brother to spare the lives of thousands and prevent war. HE IS A HERO! By killing his own clan the Leaf village surivied. Other villages did not have the chance to attack the leaf. Itachi saved his village from others experieincing civil war. Itachi also had help killing his clan. obito helped him out so it was not just Itachi.

Are you kidding they are not childiren that go off so your saying everytime they gained a ew sharigan power it was childish?
Saskue
-protecting Naruto to get 2 tomoe
-friends at risk against Oro so Saskue so uses 2 tomoe
-Saskue is enraged by Naruto;s talk trying to relate to him and is enraged as past Saskue's pain emotions resurface
-Saskue's brother dies and realize he was good

Obito
-friends are at risk of death to get 2 tomoe
-sees best friend break promise and kill potential girl friend to go 3 tomoe and MS

Izuna-unknown
Itachi-kill his best friend to get MS
Madara and Izuna-kill their loved ones

^these are not simple childish events. These are rare and emotional stress that would make anyone go insane. Yet people like Izuna, Shishi, and Itachi stayed sane. And Obito, Saskue,Madara stayed sane until MS^

I agree it is insane for Danzo to stop peace by stealing Shishi's eye! Shishi gouged out his own eye and gave it to Itachi so he could stop war and protect the leaf which was HEROIC not insane. Do you at least agree that it was sane for Shishi to attempt to use Koto to brain wash the Uchiha to not want to start a war??Do you think it was sane for Danzo to steal shsihi's eye??Shishi is compared to Naruto so do you think Naruto is insane?!

Saskue wanted to become stronger. His goal was still only one person who deserved it which was Itachi not everyone Itachi knew. Saskue would do whatever he had to. Plus naruto was not going to let Saskue leave unless Naruto was K.O or dead. It is what Saskue had to do. Plus Saskue had curse mark on him which made him crazy. Everyone with the CS went insane and bloodlusted. Saskue was corrupted by the vessel it was not his uchiha genes or his sharigan it was the CS and being in that mystical barrier ma-bob to make him not regular Calmer Saskue.


Tobirama is the HOKAGE! He is the one who is suposed to be the leader and the bigger person. He is supposed to be fair and equal with everyone and do the right thing. Uchiha are outraged! They ditched their leader for the leaf. Madara predicted this would happen and it did!!!! The uchiha feel guitly and they are now emotionally disturbed and their illness are kicking in. Tobirama was full aware of the illness so he should have talked to them from the begining.Talking would be useless now because the Uchiha have done nothing wrong but the senju still messed with them.

I did not assume at all so please can you do the same. If something was not stated you can not fill in the blanks especially when their have been opportunities for others to bring it up

[Sergoros]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

I did not assume at all so please can you do the same. If something was not stated you can not fill in the blanks especially when their have been opportunities for others to bring it up

As I already stated....You just not see your words as assumptions.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Your assumption is not a good one. It was not mentioned so you can not assume it happened. THat is THAT

Thats still assumption. Even if it is likely, its still assumption, before you can prove otherwise. Might have told. Should have told. Thats not for you to decide.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Yes talking to the Uchiha was useless then because they were already provoke which is why shishi (A SANE PERSON) wanted to use koto on them so they would calm down yet Danzo an INSANE person without a sharigan ruined that plan. Itachi not only could not talk with the uchiha to clam them down but he could not talk with Danzo or the other elders to calm them down. Hiruzen was the ONLY person that would listen and comprimise with Itachi. Tobirama needed to talk with them from the GET-GO

Danzo is rly not sane person. I wont even argue about that. But is it sane to keep silent and never tell it to hirusen? U know. Danzo isnt hokage. Hirusen is. So if itachi talked with uchihas 1-st. If they would be sane enough, they would have listened. Then he would have talked with hirusen. Then hirusen would have explained everything to elders and they would have kicked danzo out. Cause he was scheming behind their back.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

...HE IS A HERO! By killing his own clan....

Sounds nice. heh. Joke. I understand what you mean. But he shouldnt have listened to danzo in the 1-st place. He should have started working with hirusen.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Are you kidding they are not childiren that go off so your saying everytime they gained a ew sharigan power it was childish?

Wrong. Im talking about their rebellion right now. It was childish. They should have talked it out.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Do you at least agree that it was sane for Shishi to attempt to use Koto to brain wash the Uchiha to not want to start a war??Do you think it was sane for Danzo to steal shsihi's eye??Shishi is compared to Naruto so do you think Naruto is insane?!

I showed you act of insanity. Gouging his own eye. It doesnt matter why. Sane person would have at least asked someone else to do it, like obito. Gouging it yourself is insane.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Saskue wanted to become stronger.

He betrayed his village for his goals. No matter how you look at it. He joined with enemy and even let enemy do some tricky stuff with his body.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Tobirama is the HOKAGE! He is the one who is suposed to be the leader and the bigger person. He is supposed to be fair and equal with everyone and do the right thing.

And he did right thing. Like hashirama never told uchihas about their mental illnes, Tobirama just made hashirama childish wishes real. He added a control system for uchiha madnes. So they would be better integrated into village.