Spoiler Naruto 622

[kalmeast]

it looks to me like madara and hashi may have agreed to work together towards peace at a young age but didn't see each other quite some time until they met again...when they met, hashi had become the leader of the senju and Madara the leader of the fanboyz... that's when they had to clash for the sake of their respective clans... then talked later..

I think we'll have a few more flashbacks, and hopefully, hashi touches on the Uzumaki clan too. Minato would be like

we've been seeing fighting for over two human years and i think this flashback is setting a slower tone to the plot now, and it's very appropriate.

Kishi is pulling of the Madara/Hashi relationship very well...impressive!!

[Vivi]

I'm just waiting for it now, Mito appears and Madara becomes jealous turning evil.

[kalmeast]

i'd hit kishi's head wit a shovel if that's the case

[Jutsu Junkie]

Well, considering the revelation of Obito's motivation, I wouldn't be surprised. The character motivations, especially of villains, have devolved over time:

• Sasuke seeks revenge for the murder of his clan (understandable)
• Orochimaru seeks immortality (understandable, though slightly less rational than Sasuke's motive)
• Pain seeks peace through cyclic spasms of global destruction (inherently absurd)
• Obito seeks to destroy the world (yes, destroy, not change, despite his speech) his not-girlfriend sought to defend ... because he lost her? (deeply contradictory, indicative of a compromised mind)
• Madara??? So far hazy, but pattern suggests that it will be even worse than Obito's reasoning. But the means to his end are the same as Obito's which is inherently irrational, since by it's nature a genjutsu is an illusion, so "remaking" the world with it is actually impossible. Rather, they commit genocide for the sake of a temporary illusion, thus contradicting themselves.

I'm happy to argue why a global genjutsu would be tantamount to genocide, but just think about it for a bit...

[scallanan]

Originally Posted by Jutsu Junkie

Well, considering the revelation of Obito's motivation, I wouldn't be surprised. The character motivations, especially of villains, have devolved over time:

• Sasuke seeks revenge for the murder of his clan (understandable)
• Orochimaru seeks immortality (understandable, though slightly less rational than Sasuke's motive)
• Pain seeks peace through cyclic spasms of global destruction (inherently absurd)
• Obito seeks to destroy the world (yes, destroy, not change, despite his speech) his not-girlfriend sought to defend ... because he lost her? (deeply contradictory, indicative of a compromised mind)
• Madara??? So far hazy, but pattern suggests that it will be even worse than Obito's reasoning. But the means to his end are the same as Obito's which is inherently irrational, since by it's nature a genjutsu is an illusion, so "remaking" the world with it is actually impossible. Rather, they commit genocide for the sake of a temporary illusion, thus contradicting themselves.

I'm happy to argue why a global genjutsu would be tantamount to genocide, but just think about it for a bit...

You are right as of now, but I think over the next couple of chapters, we are going to really understand why shinobi of the Uchiha clan always go down the path of evil. We already know it's linked to their strong emotions and the level of power in their sharingan, but I'm certain we'll learn more about it. Can't wait for Kishi's answer!

Edit: Nagato's reason for peace was wrong, but not totally absurd. Esentially what he wanted to do was to have an overall leader of all the countries which controlled the most powerful weapon on the face of the planet. By using this weapon to show them what "pain" feels like, people can sympathize with others because they have gone through the same experience. Also by giving the world a common enemy much more powerful than any one country can handle, it would force them to unite for the good of the world, thus ending the hatred they have with each other.... for a brief time anyway. These are my two-cents on it anyway

[Jutsu Junkie]

Originally Posted by scallanan

You are right as of now, but I think over the next couple of chapters, we are going to really understand why shinobi of the Uchiha clan always go down the path of evil. We already know it's linked to their strong emotions and the level of power in their sharingan, but I'm certain we'll learn more about it. Can't wait for Kishi's answer!

Edit: Nagato's reason for peace was wrong, but not totally absurd. Esentially what he wanted to do was to have an overall leader of all the countries which controlled the most powerful weapon on the face of the planet. By using this weapon to show them what "pain" feels like, people can sympathize with others because they have gone through the same experience. Also by giving the world a common enemy much more powerful than any one country can handle, it would force them to unite for the good of the world, thus ending the hatred they have with each other.... for a brief time anyway. These are my two-cents on it anyway

You may be right, but unfortunately that won't necessitate any strengthening of Obito's motives, and perhaps not even Madara's. No matter how prone to evil by whatever device, some of the villains are weak characters, because their motives are compromised.

As for Nagato, I disagree. He stated that people couldn't understand each other in the first place. He attempted to replace the hope for peace with the reality of mass fear. The thing he intended was a series of cold wars. Such a state of affairs would only be better than the present in that fewer people would die specifically from war, but everyone would live in terror, which is not peace. His position was weak and requires a weak mind to support, which contradicts his other capabilities. That is the central problem with most Naruto villains: they exhibit even mental genius yet cannot reason their way out of a wet paper bag on the central question of their lives.

[Mizukage]

I think Hashirama is an interesting character. He's all confidence and laughter as an adult (which I didn't really expect,) but as a kid he's all oober depressed. It's an interesting personality.

[scallanan]

Originally Posted by Jutsu Junkie

You may be right, but unfortunately that won't necessitate any strengthening of Obito's motives, and perhaps not even Madara's. No matter how prone to evil by whatever device, some of the villains are weak characters, because their motives are compromised.

As for Nagato, I disagree. He stated that people couldn't understand each other in the first place. He attempted to replace the hope for peace with the reality of mass fear. The thing he intended was a series of cold wars. Such a state of affairs would only be better than the present in that fewer people would die specifically from war, but everyone would live in terror, which is not peace. His position was weak and requires a weak mind to support, which contradicts his other capabilities. That is the central problem with most Naruto villains: they exhibit even mental genius yet cannot reason their way out of a wet paper bag on the central question of their lives.

Yes you're right, it doesn't strengthen Obito or Madara's motives. The reasoning behind their actions at the moment are very poor indeed, however it hasn't been fully explained yet. Obito merely stated that it was because Kakashi couldn't save Rin. But honestly, I would throw that out the window straight away. Kishi is generally a good writer, and that's why he's written many popular manga, and if I'm to believe that this is the whole reason why the infinite tsukuyomi plan is going ahead, then I might as well give up on Naruto. I'm sure Kishi will give us a better reason than this.

And about pain, yes it seems you're right. He lost hope that there would ever be peace again, and decided to go down that route

[Madaraslives]

i am glad the dynamics between madara and hashbrowns(hashirama) aren't so similar to naruto and the sauce, its nice to have some different elements/factors.

Hey guys i used to be apart of this forum a long time ago under the name of "madaralives", i remember vivi, Mr.sticky(? cant remember if thats his name lol) zerosamurai and a bunch more, ilikepie had just started out on here too, anyways i am back and i want to be apart of the community again
I also would like to point out i do weekly naruto manga reviews on youtube ,channel name : madaraslives

(i'l probably be posting this below all my comments until i can add a signature)

[Madaraslives]

why does itama look so..zetsu'y O.o
and im hoping the dark half of his hair is brown and not black(like hashbrowns hair)
cause if it is black.. its just more zetsu'y

[scallanan]

Any probable link between zetsu and itama? Maybe itama's cells were used for bringing zetsu to life instead of Hashirama's??