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Old 02-28-2013, 02:19 AM   #1
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Default Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

I know there are some Tobirama haters...Not that he was my favorite either but today after reading chp 622, I got respect for that little boy! At 7 or 8 he was already thinking like a wise hokage... I'll just put up that quote

Tobirama: "Grown ups are idiots, if they really want to bring an end to this endless fighting, they need to sit down with one another and reach a truce"...

"....we're in this mess because shinobi keep seeking vengeance... what shinobi needs to do is form some standard... some code of conduct... only then will these senseless killings come to an end.."

I believe that Tobirama might be the more intelligent one while Hashirama is the strongest... Tobirama must have helped hashi a lot in establishing the Leaf Village... This idea of alliance is Tobirama's idea before Hashi thought about kinship aka clans to begin with... and for that, I respect him even more!

Has anyone else's perspective changed about Tobirama?
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:55 AM   #2
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

I've liked him from the beginning, but it does really amaze me how he thinks. He is wise.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:43 AM   #3
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Originally Posted by kalmeast View Post
I know there are some Tobirama haters...Not that he was my favorite either but today after reading chp 622, I got respect for that little boy! At 7 or 8 he was already thinking like a wise hokage... I'll just put up that quote

Tobirama: "Grown ups are idiots, if they really want to bring an end to this endless fighting, they need to sit down with one another and reach a truce"...
Like all characters tobirama was not a a completely a bully. I do give him props for protecting HASHIRAMA. But he obivously hanged his way of thinking. Like all naive kids he thinks grown ups are stupid and peace should be so easy. But look at him now. He did not sit down and talk with the uichihas.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

It's sad that they didn't enjoy childhood....they were thinking like grown ups from day one.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

And it's very telling of how his current attitude came about. He had ideas for peace and the Uchiha basically smashed those.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:21 AM   #6
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

It was not just the uchiha
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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It was not just the uchiha
That goes for other clans as well during their era.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

seems to me that uchiha are the main stumbling block to a true Truce... I even think his plan with the uchiha was a "success" since there wasn't any problem from his time, through hiruzen's time, through Minato's Time, back to Hiruzen's time with Itachi before we say something ugly from the Fanboyz...

Imagine if the police force idea was never established,,,,there would have been an uchiha pandemic outbreak way before itachi.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
Like all characters tobirama was not a a completely a bully. I do give him props for protecting HASHIRAMA. But he obivously hanged his way of thinking. Like all naive kids he thinks grown ups are stupid and peace should be so easy. But look at him now. He did not sit down and talk with the uichihas.


Uchiha are evil clan with mental problems,if they lose someone they could awaken sharingan and kill countless of innocent villagers,they deserved to die and im gratefull tobirama outcasted them.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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seems to me that uchiha are the main stumbling block to a true Truce... I even think his plan with the uchiha was a "success" since there wasn't any problem from his time, through hiruzen's time, through Minato's Time, back to Hiruzen's time with Itachi before we say something ugly from the Fanboyz...

Imagine if the police force idea was never established,,,,there would have been an uchiha pandemic outbreak way before itachi.
The police force was not the only issue it was the fact that he used the ANBU to watch over him out of distrust.

How do you know that without te police force the uchiha would have caused trouble? Without it Madara would not have left.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:43 AM   #11
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Has anyone else's perspective changed about Tobirama?
Good thread. Well I never had any doubts about Tobirama. He did what he thought was best for the village in the given circumstances. The young Tobirama saying this just shows that he started off as a person who believed that matters could be resolved with negotiation rather than fighting but then with time ...the reality told him otherwise! (like how we wish for the Israel-palestine conflict to be resolved with peace talks...but it's not so simple!).
If anything this last chapter has showed me that he indeed was wise and not someone who has a blind grudge against the Uchiha. And I am sure that Hashirama did not achieve everything on his own and Tobirama must have influenced him...

And things are not always as they seem as I wonder if there were triggers other than just the police force that made the Uchiha rebel...
Also Itachi blamed the clan for their way of thinking too (chapter 222) when he says 'I've lost all hope for this pathetic clan'...
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

I never didn't like Tobirama but that extract did increase my respect for him and the fact that at seven he could think that clearly is cool.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Originally Posted by Fighting_dreamer View Post
Good thread. Well I never had any doubts about Tobirama. He did what he thought was best for the village in the given circumstances. The young Tobirama saying this just shows that he started off as a person who believed that matters could be resolved with negotiation rather than fighting but then with time ...the reality told him otherwise! (like how we wish for the Israel-palestine conflict to be resolved with peace talks...but it's not so simple!).
If anything this last chapter has showed me that he indeed was wise and not someone who has a blind grudge against the Uchiha. And I am sure that Hashirama did not achieve everything on his own and Tobirama must have influenced him...

And things are not always as they seem as I wonder if there were triggers other than just the police force that made the Uchiha rebel...
Also Itachi blamed the clan for their way of thinking too (chapter 222) when he says 'I've lost all hope for this pathetic clan'...
Perhaps sitting down and talking works for everyone except the Uchiha... so if tobirama's value of peace is not reached, it's not his fault, it's the Uchiha, who think they're so special... I doubt his way of thinking ever changed... why did you think he and the 2nd Raikage came to a truce...it's through his effort i'm sure. He's simply awesome in my book.


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Like all characters tobirama was not a a completely a bully. I do give him props for protecting HASHIRAMA. But he obivously hanged his way of thinking. Like all naive kids he thinks grown ups are stupid and peace should be so easy. But look at him now. He did not sit down and talk with the uichihas.
lol...this what i mean by tobirama hating! it's so obvious now

tobirama wasn't naive, if he were, his thoughts as a child wouldn't have been the same solution Hashi and Madara took... it wouldn't have been Hiruzen's 70 yrs old way of thinking...

secondly, to say he did not sit down to talk with the uchiha is more naive than a child thinking grown ups are stupid...

How can a hokage make the uchiha the police force and have them at such top military position without sitting down first...is it a responsibility you can shove on someone's throat? absolutely not... they had to sit and talk first.



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Do you Think Tobirama Would have agreed to the Uchiha Massacre? What would he have done?
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Perhaps sitting down and talking works for everyone except the Uchiha... so if tobirama's value of peace is not reached, it's not his fault, it's the Uchiha, who think they're so special... I doubt his way of thinking ever changed... why did you think he and the 2nd Raikage came to a truce...it's through his effort i'm sure. He's simply awesome in my book.
No disagreement there; that's a good point about the 2nd Raikage. Yes Uchiha were an exception... that outburst of Itachi (at the uchiha police who came to question him) really showed the frustration he felt because it was clearly the Uchiha who were at fault...
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

^ and not forgetting Shisui... the First Uchiha with the WILL of FIRE...

how did shisui turn out to be like that...i wanna know more about him than anybody..
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:45 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

Of course tobirama would agree to the uchiha massacre
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Of course tobirama would agree to the uchiha massacre
That is your assumption. It is true that in the end even Hiruzen agreed. And Tobirama would probably as well.

But during his time, Tobirama didn't seem to try to kill them. Just keep an eye on them!!!
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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lol...this what i mean by tobirama hating! it's so obvious now
Ah here we go again.
Well I hope you use proof this time and not assume

tobirama wasn't naive, if he were, his thoughts as a child wouldn't have been the same solution Hashi and Madara took... it wouldn't have been Hiruzen's 70 yrs old way of thinking...
Honestly this was my kind a thinking as a kid. I said naive because it is the ideal way yet impractical and far fetched and not likely to happen. This is my favorite solution but it is harder to do than say. It's not so simple.

secondly, to say he did not sit down to talk with the uchiha is more naive than a child thinking grown ups are stupid...

How can a hokage make the uchiha the police force and have them at such top military position without sitting down first...is it a responsibility you can shove on someone's throat? absolutely not... they had to sit and talk first.
Nobody said anything about Tobirama and the Uchiha's sitting down and talking. Even if they did not which is very unlikely then it was not a good talk. Tobirama was not honest. The Uchiha did not agree to be watched over by ANBU.You ASSUM that they had a talk. Tobirama obviously had a hidden agenda. He should have talked to out with the Uchiha if so he would have knew they could have been trusted. Thus no sit down and talk was orgainzed.
@UC
-I guess your right but MOST LIKELY (I am almost certain) Tobirama would have wanted death! Afterall Danzo was a student of Toirama so they are likely to share the same ideas. Plus Tobirama did not talk with them before or have much trust nor faith in them. And after the kyubi attack Tobirama would have even less trust. They made a thread to the village (when actuallity it was OBITO)/. Plus Tobirama tried to attack Saskue. Tobirama is not the most understanding nor patient.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
@UC
-I guess your right but MOST LIKELY (I am almost certain) Tobirama would have wanted death! Afterall Danzo was a student of Toirama so they are likely to share the same ideas. Plus Tobirama did not talk with them before or have much trust nor faith in them. And after the kyubi attack Tobirama would have even less trust. They made a thread to the village (when actuallity it was OBITO)/. Plus Tobirama tried to attack Saskue. Tobirama is not the most understanding nor patient.
This chapter proves Tobirama doesn't want to kill because he is simply bloodlust and likes to kill.

Also, I don't think Danzo was direct student of Tobirama. Team Tobirama was made of Tobirama, Hiruzen, Homura and Koharu.

Well, it seems Tobirama didn't trust Uchiha. But it seems we will learn more about that. We see Itama was killed by Uchiha. Perhaps this made Tobirama suspicious.

Tobirama attacked Sasuke. But you are forgetting Sasuke is the bad guy, or at least he appears to be one. If it was some other Uchiha who was innocent, you would be right. But you can't really blame Tobirama for attacking Sasuke. Sasuke is still treated as criminal.

-He is together with Orochimaru
-He attacked Killer Bee and other Kage
-He tried to kill candidate Hokage
-He tried to kill Sakura
-He tried to kill Kakashi
-He threatens to destroy the village (and told Naruto or Kakashi he would kill everyone)
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

Oh yeah I totally agree with that even before this chap

Oh yeah I forget but he was still the hokage and he did go on the mission of Tobirama's death

Agreed!But most improtantly I want to see this "good reason" for creating ET

I agree 100% Saskue is the bad guy but Tobirama is still rash. Saskue just wanted to talk and find an answer and if he did not get one (or a correct one) then and only then he would attack the Leaf.....strange eh? Why would Tobirama not want to talk first? Tobirama used to want to talk. Saskue jsut confessed his soul. Tobirama heard his heartbreack of how his dear brother sacrificed himself and did all of this incrediable stuff but Tobirama still wants to fight. He can not even take the time to help answer a question. This is why Tobirama just erks me. AND NOTICE HOW I ONLY USED PROOF AND FEATS! I am NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT. A tobirama hater I am just telling it how it is. I am not assuming nor inferencing. Go re-read it for yourself chp 619-620 pg 5. Tobirama could have fought him at any time or AFTER they talked but instead Tobirama goes off the bat and attacks.

Also I doubt Tobirama would have been a good person to talk to when he just curses the Uchiha.
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