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Old 02-27-2013, 12:22 AM   #1
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Default Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

After reading 622, we can clearly see that... Madara is not an evil brat. He has the same desire to end the war as Hashirama. So what could have changed him so much?

As Tobirama stated, Madara loved his brother Izuna... may be even more than Itachi did Sasuke. So this in my mind rules out the Tobi's story of Madara. I don't think he took his brothers eyes while he was still alive, he probably got them from his corpse.(Just like how Sasuke got his EMS)

How did Izuna die? Hashirama killed him. I can't predict how it would happen but in chapter 621 page 11
Hashi: Do you want to destroy all we have done so far? All our efforts?
It is an insult to our brothers and comrades.
Madara: How dare you...

That in my opinion proves... Hashirama did kill Izuna. Also In the previous story we were told that Madara and Hasi were fighting for the title of Hokage. Really? This doesn't look like competition fight but rather a fight for revenge(fight to the death). It would be silly if they would die for the title... besides they both look like the type who wouldn't really care for the title as long as there is peace.

If this is the case for Izuna's death, then I have one small theory. After Hashi tells the story and convinces Sasuke, they would all head out to battlefield and confront Madara and Juubi. Madara will see Sasuke who looks almost the same as Izuna...I know all uchihas look alike but Sasuke and Izuna looks almost like a twin. He will have mixed feelings to whether to end the world. Seeing Sasuke might save him from Uchiha's evil.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

HA.... Seems more like he has anger issuse... Or Bipolor. But yes.

Also is this an opinoin Hashirama killed Izuna? Because That has never been comfermed.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

All, i wanna say is this : Brilliant post!... such great deduction... It doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong... the last paragraph of what's going to happen isn' necessary for such great thread...it rather takes away... i'd leave the 4 paragraphs alone!

I also though, that Madara didn't really take izuna's eyes while he was alive but i couldn't make the connection to chp 621...u did beat me there
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:47 AM   #4
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

Very interesting and plausible.

You did make a nice connection there and the motives behind Madara's action fit perfectly.
But there's only one thing that I'd like to add :

To be honest, I think Hashirama killed Izuna without knowing that he was Izuna, or Madara didn't even tell Hashirama that he had a brother who hasn't died (in today's chapter Madara said I HAD 4 brothers so I was thinking he discluded Izuna and probably didn't want to tell Hashirama for unknown reasons, maybe he wasn't proud of his brother because Izuna didn't like the thought of peace).

Either way I'm sure Hashirama tried to convince Izuna otherwise (if Izuna tried to kill Hashirama).
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:18 AM   #5
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

It seems like Izuna lived for a while, well into when Hashirama and Madara would fight. When Tobi was talking about "his" past, he said he and Izuna took control of the clan after awakning their MS. That seems to imply that he lived for quite a while.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:11 AM   #6
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

What tobi said to saskue was all true besides his identity. Madara revealed to tobi everything. Tobi took the identity of Madara from the info Madara gave him.

I believe izuna and Madara used the MS to much and were becomi blind. Madra was the stronger one so izuna willingly to give up his life. A senju definetly did not kill him.

The fight we saw in he flashback was not for a title it was anger and vengeance.

Madara should have stated dead to be with his precious brother
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

Wasnt it stated that izuna gave madara his eyes?
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:01 AM   #8
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

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Wasnt it stated that izuna gave madara his eyes?
By Tobi. Who knows how accurate that statement was. Itachi said the exact opposite.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:32 AM   #9
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

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All, i wanna say is this : Brilliant post!... such great deduction... It doesn't matter whether you're right or wrong... the last paragraph of what's going to happen isn' necessary for such great thread...it rather takes away... i'd leave the 4 paragraphs alone!

I also though, that Madara didn't really take izuna's eyes while he was alive but i couldn't make the connection to chp 621...u did beat me there
Thanks!...I wasn't actually going to include the last paragraph but i got lazy and didn't want to make a new thread. So I just wrapped it up fast. May be someone else can take over the idea and extend it to a new theory.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:39 AM   #10
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

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Originally Posted by DrKage View Post
By Tobi. Who knows how accurate that statement was. Itachi said the exact opposite.
Itachi was mis informed he did not know Madara as well as tobi.

Madara saved obito and Madara told obito everything. Itachi just said that because he did not want saskue to join him. Itachi was making ish up. Tobi told the entire truth(besides him being Madara).
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:41 AM   #11
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

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Originally Posted by Kyūbi no Yōko View Post
Very interesting and plausible.

You did make a nice connection there and the motives behind Madara's action fit perfectly.
But there's only one thing that I'd like to add :

To be honest, I think Hashirama killed Izuna without knowing that he was Izuna, or Madara didn't even tell Hashirama that he had a brother who hasn't died (in today's chapter Madara said I HAD 4 brothers so I was thinking he discluded Izuna and probably didn't want to tell Hashirama for unknown reasons, maybe he wasn't proud of his brother because Izuna didn't like the thought of peace).

Either way I'm sure Hashirama tried to convince Izuna otherwise (if Izuna tried to kill Hashirama).
I totally agree with what you say. I don't think Hashirama knew who Izuna was. Izuna probably cornered him or threaten to kill his comrades. when the news reached the Uchiha headquarters, that leader of Senju killed Izuna... Madara snapped.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:26 AM   #12
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

Wish they'd revive izuna. He's the only one worth wanting to see revived. Him or the sage of 6 path.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

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Originally Posted by ET Izuna View Post

How did Izuna die? Hashirama killed him. I can't predict how it would happen but in chapter 621 page 11
Hashi: Do you want to destroy all we have done so far? All our efforts?
It is an insult to our [COLOR=Red]brothers[COLOR=Black] [COLOR=Silver]and comrades.
Madara: How dare you...
What Madara said there was also translated as 'you dare patronise me'. Well eitherway it could be a reply in the sense that he doesn't want to get lectured by Hashi...esp when it comes to his brothers n comrades (as he cares & think about them as much as Hashi)


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Originally Posted by ET Izuna View Post
Also In the previous story we were told that Madara and Hasi were fighting for the title of Hokage. Really? This doesn't look like competition fight but rather a fight for revenge(fight to the death). It would be silly if they would die for the title... besides they both look like the type who wouldn't really care for the title as long as there is peace.
It was a fight for what they believed in...believed has the right lead...
It was obvious that the victor of the war of that scale would leave a mark on the shinobi world and eventually come to be its leader because both Hashi and Madara stood at the top .... well this is what I think and so there isn't any contradiction
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

Madara would have mentioned to sad kid that hashirama killed his brother. Plus Madara took his bros eyes right before death. He would have been useless and easily killed without his eyes
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

That self-destructive uchiha love curse.

It strikes again.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:20 PM   #16
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
Itachi was mis informed he did not know Madara as well as tobi.

Madara saved obito and Madara told obito everything. Itachi just said that because he did not want saskue to join him. Itachi was making ish up. Tobi told the entire truth(besides him being Madara).
Yeah you're probably right but you can't prove that Madara told Obito everything I mean can you see Madara Uchiha telling Obito every truthful detail about his life? I cant.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

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Yeah you're probably right but you can't prove that Madara told Obito everything I mean can you see Madara Uchiha telling Obito every truthful detail about his life? I cant.
Yeah I completely agree with you. I'm pretty sure he only let obito know what he needed to know, after all he IS only using him but then again obito right now is also smarter and manipulative compared to when he last saw madara alive.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

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That in my opinion proves... Hashirama did kill Izuna. Also In the previous story we were told that Madara and Hasi were fighting for the title of Hokage. Really? This doesn't look like competition fight but rather a fight for revenge(fight to the death). It would be silly if they would die for the title... besides they both look like the type who wouldn't really care for the title as long as there is peace.
Though I agree with you on every point, this part... This part is odd.

I believe the "Everything we've worked for" is the Village Hidden in the Leaves.

And it does look like a competition, which is why Hashirama was basically telling Madara to be careful when he is using his jutsu because he may take out the civilizations around the land mass they are located upon, for the sake of protecting the village they were trying to basically call 'dibs' on.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

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Originally Posted by konoha chimp View Post
Yeah you're probably right but you can't prove that Madara told Obito everything I mean can you see Madara Uchiha telling Obito every truthful detail about his life? I cant.
Hashirama attacking or killing Madara’s brother is a pretty HUGE detail. We can not prove what Obito told saskue was a lie. Izuna willingly gave up his eyes. And if he fought a senju with no eyes thats just stupid. Hashirama did note ven mention fighting another uchiha besides Hashirama. When Hashirama became the leader of the senju he was very well known So Izuna would have know of him. It’s a nice thoery but its not possible
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: Where it all turned bad (Izuna's death)

Very true! I don't see hashirama the violent sort after seeing him in the latest three chapters. He's sort off like talk first, fight later sort. I doubt he did kill izuna.

Last edited by Harlequin; 02-27-2013 at 08:21 PM.
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