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View Poll Results: Who would win?
Sasuke 18 51.43%
Gaara 17 48.57%
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:33 PM   #61
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

If Gaara had as much hype as Sasuke does at this point, he would undoubtedly crush him in a match. Lets just face it though, Sasuke is an "Uchiha". He is going to get ridiculous power ups to become the final villain and square off with Naruto. If Sasuke and his justu werent a product of PnJ, we all know Gaara would school him. Hard.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:14 PM   #62
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

Sasuke has shown no Genjutsu capable of effecting people through walls, Gaara sits in his sand dome. And spams all oh his ridiculous sand techniques he has shown not speculated. Sasuke gets swarmed Gaara has grown far from his chunin exam run. Sasuke just hasn't shown enough to validate him beating Gaara at this point, when Sasuke shows a feat like the Totsuka sword he has no chance. Gaara wins this with is he has better flight capabilities Sasuke's Hawks have shown no durability, Meaning Gaara easily takes this fight in the air leaving Sasuke with the ground. From There Its Gaara Play ground He can just spam from flight with the third eye Gaara will never fall prey to a genjutsu. Sasuke loses this, He needs more feats. Gaara is a boss give him his props.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:08 PM   #63
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

It is quite difficult to decide!! but i think sasuke!!
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:57 PM   #64
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
@GodaimeKazekage

When I said it wasn't doujutsu that was a poor choice of words. What I meant to say is that it's doujutsu that's not reliant on eye contact. Sure Sasuke's genjutsu are sharingan based but people don't have to look into his eyes to fall prey to them.

Shee did NOT look Sasuke in the eyes. Yes he was caught under the genjutsu and there he saw the sharingan but prior to that he wasn't even looking in Sasuke's direction. By the time we saw that silhouette he was already under the technique. Meaning Sasuke was able to activate it without Shee looking at him. The drawing of the sharingan is just Kishi's way of demonstrating that the sharingan genjutsu is taking effect. TBH Kishi is really bad when it comes to sharingan related things if we look at his history.

-There are inconsistencies with Sasuke's tomoes early in the series and then with the flashback in shippuden
-He had an unclear explanation about how Shisui's genjutsu worked and which eye was able to use it. He didn't clear that up until several chapters after Itachi broke ET
-Even recently we see that he can't even remember the design for Sasuke's EMS, since he has been drawing MS this entire time, without Itachi's tomoe design.

This isn't directly relevant to the debate but it goes to show Kishi's eye for detail sometimes. Same thing goes for Deidara. He was way out of the range where he could make eye contact. Bee is the only one I might budge on seeing as we can't really prove he didn't make eye contact when he was charging in to perform the Lariat.

As for the speed related debate. That Susano'o arrow from long range arrived faster than Kakashi could even move, and Kakashi's a pretty impressive speedster in the Narutoverse. Kishi also kinda put to rest the whole, Gaara's sand is fast enough to keep up with A thing in the Second Mizukage fight, where Gaara had to set up a sand clone because Jouki Boy was fast enough to get past his guard.

Finally, the Amaterasu sword looked larger and more powerful than the three swords of the Madara clones's Susano'o's that knocked Gaara down but he was distracted trying to save the Mizukage so I guess I can let that one slide.
I still maintain that Sasuke needs eye contact to use genjutsu. If it's activated through sharingan it's logical that eye-contact is needed for it to work. This is supported by the fact that the Uchiha brothers were unable to do anything to Kabuto in terms of genjutsu after he sealed off his vision. Against Deidara it's unknown exactly when Deidara was put under genjutsu (and he was playing along with it in order to trap Sasuke). C noticed something before the silhoutte was shown (I believe this is when eye contact was established) and it can be argued either way if he did or did not make eye-contact-but I'd say the burden of proof lies on you since past precedent and logic dictates that eye-contact is needed. Against Bee, it's clear as day that eye-contact was established. This genjutsu debate is also made irrelevant as Gaara can surround himself in a shell of sand as well and Sasuke can't cast genjutsu on a target he can't see.

Susano'o arrow doesn't impress me. Danzo was able to stop it at much closer range by growing a tree out of his arm. Gaara's sand is a quasi-precog defense mechanism that can block Ammy. Joki Boi never got past Gaara's guard either. Gaara attacked it initially with desert sand (not the faster gourd sand) which couldn't catch it and then intentionally had a sand clone get caught so he could stop it from exploding with the gold/hail mixture as even if he could catch it with regular sand it wouldn't stop it from exploding. Gaara may not have been able to catch Joki Boi without a trick, but he could still guard against it. I personally have a theory that Gaara's sand is faster when defending than attacking as he doesn't have to consciously control it. Not that his attacking sand is slow by any means.

Finally, we can't really debate with "it looks stronger"; there were actually five Susano'o swords that attacked Gaara, and yeah, he was distracted trying to save Mei.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:36 PM   #65
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post
I still maintain that Sasuke needs eye contact to use genjutsu. If it's activated through sharingan it's logical that eye-contact is needed for it to work. This is supported by the fact that the Uchiha brothers were unable to do anything to Kabuto in terms of genjutsu after he sealed off his vision. Against Deidara it's unknown exactly when Deidara was put under genjutsu (and he was playing along with it in order to trap Sasuke). C noticed something before the silhoutte was shown (I believe this is when eye contact was established) and it can be argued either way if he did or did not make eye-contact-but I'd say the burden of proof lies on you since past precedent and logic dictates that eye-contact is needed. Against Bee, it's clear as day that eye-contact was established. This genjutsu debate is also made irrelevant as Gaara can surround himself in a shell of sand as well and Sasuke can't cast genjutsu on a target he can't see.

Susano'o arrow doesn't impress me. Danzo was able to stop it at much closer range by growing a tree out of his arm. Gaara's sand is a quasi-precog defense mechanism that can block Ammy. Joki Boi never got past Gaara's guard either. Gaara attacked it initially with desert sand (not the faster gourd sand) which couldn't catch it and then intentionally had a sand clone get caught so he could stop it from exploding with the gold/hail mixture as even if he could catch it with regular sand it wouldn't stop it from exploding. Gaara may not have been able to catch Joki Boi without a trick, but he could still guard against it. I personally have a theory that Gaara's sand is faster when defending than attacking as he doesn't have to consciously control it. Not that his attacking sand is slow by any means.

Finally, we can't really debate with "it looks stronger"; there were actually five Susano'o swords that attacked Gaara, and yeah, he was distracted trying to save Mei.
Incorrect. He still fell for Itachi's crow genjutsu my friend. He just was able to sense that it was a fake shortly after but he was caught inside of it. So your entire premise for disproving my argument is faulty. Pretty much the rest of this long response isn't necessary because of this fact.

Doujutsu manipulates the senses that doesn't just mean sight. Even without vision Kabuto was placed under sharingan genjutsu. And for the Shee thing, the burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim. You are claiming that eye contact was established when none was demonstrated. My claim takes into account the obvious evidence at hand at simply restates it, your claim requires an alternative hypothesis.

As for the secondary points, Danzo just barely avoided it by sacrificing an arm, you make it sound like that was effortless. And you can't say that he needs a trick but simultaneously can guard against it, it's one or the other. The clone that Jouki Boy was about to attack was specifically using gourd sand to try to block the attack. Clones have the same reaction time as the originals so that clearly demonstrates the Gaara can't react to things at the speed of Jouki Boy.

For everyone saying that Gaara can just go into his ball and fight I hope you know Gaara still has to expose his "third eye to the battlefield which means he's still sensorily linked to the fight, therefore just as prone to genjutsu as if he were standing there so that strategy does absolutely nothing. The main argument here is whether or not Sasuke can use genjutsu without eye contact, all these other points are moot or just for supplementary conversation.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:44 PM   #66
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
Incorrect. He still fell for Itachi's crow genjutsu my friend. He just was able to sense that it was a fake shortly after but he was caught inside of it. So your entire premise for disproving my argument is faulty. Pretty much the rest of this long response isn't necessary because of this fact.

Doujutsu manipulates the senses that doesn't just mean sight. Even without vision Kabuto was placed under sharingan genjutsu. And for the Shee thing, the burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim. You are claiming that eye contact was established when none was demonstrated. My claim takes into account the obvious evidence at hand at simply restates it, your claim requires an alternative hypothesis.

As for the secondary points, Danzo just barely avoided it by sacrificing an arm, you make it sound like that was effortless. And you can't say that he needs a trick but simultaneously can guard against it, it's one or the other. The clone that Jouki Boy was about to attack was specifically using gourd sand to try to block the attack. Clones have the same reaction time as the originals so that clearly demonstrates the Gaara can't react to things at the speed of Jouki Boy.

For everyone saying that Gaara can just go into his ball and fight I hope you know Gaara still has to expose his "third eye to the battlefield which means he's still sensorily linked to the fight, therefore just as prone to genjutsu as if he were standing there so that strategy does absolutely nothing. The main argument here is whether or not Sasuke can use genjutsu without eye contact, all these other points are moot or just for supplementary conversation.
Since when did Sasuke become Itachi you can't just give Sasuke skills Itachi has used. Sasuke has only showed Genjutsu through eye contact otherwise he would have been able to use it against Kabuto quit giving feats to Sasuke via Itachi. Your points are moot, Sasuke needs eye contact. Also Sasuke has to find the third eye to do anything. Sasuke is going to get over whelmed Sasuke isn't going to have any chance in the air and on the ground, Gaara shall spam from the air. I am soory but for now in this fight Sasuke has shown "Itachi feats and thus doesn't have them". So please quit using Itachi as an inhibitor. I am sorry Sasuke will never be as good as Itachi a lot of people wish he was. So Sasuke isnt making eye contact and gets crushed under sand. GG Gaara wins.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:59 PM   #67
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
Incorrect. He still fell for Itachi's crow genjutsu my friend. He just was able to sense that it was a fake shortly after but he was caught inside of it. So your entire premise for disproving my argument is faulty. Pretty much the rest of this long response isn't necessary because of this fact.
I'm pretty sure that was a clone and not a genjutsu since Itachi activated Izanami there and that couldn't happen if it was only happening in Kabuto's head. Kabuto even re-iterates after this encounter that their genjutsu can't work against him, which wouldn't make sense if he had just succumbed to one. Regardless, Sasuke=/=Itachi. As has been stated by multiple people Itachi is much better than Sasuke at genjutsu and has clearly demonstrated non-visual genjutsu (finger pointing genjutsu) which Sasuke has not-Kishi must have forgotten about it in this fight.

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Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
Doujutsu manipulates the senses that doesn't just mean sight. Even without vision Kabuto was placed under sharingan genjutsu. And for the Shee thing, the burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim. You are claiming that eye contact was established when none was demonstrated. My claim takes into account the obvious evidence at hand at simply restates it, your claim requires an alternative hypothesis.
Izanami and Izanagi are the only non eye-contact sharingan genjutsu. They make a big deal out of it in the Kabuto fight with Sasuke asking Itachi how they can put Kabuto under genjutsu if they can't use their dojutsu, after which Itachi talks about the two Uchiha kinjutsu that don't rely on the opponent's senses. You can't just say it's non eye-contact when every other sharingan genjutsu shown before it requires it and it isn't explicitly stated or shown that it wasn't done without eye contact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
As for the secondary points, Danzo just barely avoided it by sacrificing an arm, you make it sound like that was effortless. And you can't say that he needs a trick but simultaneously can guard against it, it's one or the other. The clone that Jouki Boy was about to attack was specifically using gourd sand to try to block the attack. Clones have the same reaction time as the originals so that clearly demonstrates the Gaara can't react to things at the speed of Jouki Boy.
I never said effortless, but the fact remains that he had the time to grow an entire tree out of his arm before the arrow could cross the distance. You can't tell me Gaara's sand can't block in that time when it can stop Amaterasu. Gaara has also essentially instantaneously materialized his sand at distant locations at multiple occasions (saving Sasuke from A and saving Mei from the Susano'os)

It doesn't seem to be getting through that Gaara intentionally had his clone (that was mixed with heavier/slower gold) get hit. He needed to stop Joki Boi from exploding. He faked guarding with the clone since he wanted it to get hit in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
For everyone saying that Gaara can just go into his ball and fight I hope you know Gaara still has to expose his "third eye to the battlefield which means he's still sensorily linked to the fight, therefore just as prone to genjutsu as if he were standing there so that strategy does absolutely nothing. The main argument here is whether or not Sasuke can use genjutsu without eye contact, all these other points are moot or just for supplementary conversation.
Well, genjutsu works by disturbing the opponents chakra and I doubt disturbing the chakra of a floating ball of sand is going to do anything to Gaara even if there is a sensory link. Supposing it does, Gaara still has his sensing sand.

Your argument rests upon Sasuke using non-eye contact genjutsu on a Kage level opponent to find a small opening against him. Despite the fact that this opponent has knowledge on Sasuke's abilities and has an auto-defense mechanism that operates independent of his will whether he's under a genjutsu or not. This of course is assuming Sasuke can use non eye-contact genjutsu which has never been explicitly stated or shown; with past precedence, character statements, and logic dictating that he cannot.

I could even make the assertion that Gaara is immune to genjutsu in the sense that B and Naruto are, because his mom sand would knock him out of it. He's never been shown to be caught in any genjutsu except for the 2nd Miz's which is environmental and continuously reestablishes itself. Of course there has never been a panel explicitly showing his sand waking him from genjutsu, but there hasn't been one showing non eye-contact genjutsu from Sasuke either.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:32 PM   #68
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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I'm pretty sure that was a clone and not a genjutsu since Itachi activated Izanami there and that couldn't happen if it was only happening in Kabuto's head. Kabuto even re-iterates after this encounter that their genjutsu can't work against him, which wouldn't make sense if he had just succumbed to one. Regardless, Sasuke=/=Itachi. As has been stated by multiple people Itachi is much better than Sasuke at genjutsu and has clearly demonstrated non-visual genjutsu (finger pointing genjutsu) which Sasuke has not-Kishi must have forgotten about it in this fight.

It didn't have to be a clone it could've easily just been genjutsu. All Izanami does is make the opponent relive sensory experiences. This was demonstrated by the fact that when the loop began Kabuto noticed the water dropping and the cave returning to it's original state. Kabuto was reiterating this to point out that they couldn't use genjutsu to make him end Edo Tensei. It was directly referring to Tsukuyomi which was Itachi's original plan to end the technique.

I've never suggested Sasuke is as good as Itachi at Mangekyo genjutsu but there's plenty of evidence to suggest that he is at least on par with Itachi with non-Mangekyo genjutsu. He's tricked Deidara who is a Kage level opponent, Danzo who is a Kage level opponent, and Shee who is a jonin genjutsu specialist. Those all pretty much match any of Itachi's non-MS genjutsu related feats. He also beat Itachi in a base sharingan genjutsu duel but of course everyone says that doesn't count because Itachi was weakened. Either way Itachi MS genjutsu =/= Sasuke MS genjutsu but with normal genjutsu you have no evidence to the contrary.

For the last time, you have no clear panel displaying Shee or Deidara making eye contact with Sasuke when he performs his genjutsu. Deidara did look into Sasuke's eyes once early in the fight but Sasuke was not using his genjutsu at that point. He used his genjutsu with Deidara a very significant distance away on his bird trying to activate his nanobombs. Both of these suggest he did not require eye contact.



Izanami and Izanagi are the only non eye-contact sharingan genjutsu. They make a big deal out of it in the Kabuto fight with Sasuke asking Itachi how they can put Kabuto under genjutsu if they can't use their dojutsu, after which Itachi talks about the two Uchiha kinjutsu that don't rely on the opponent's senses. You can't just say it's non eye-contact when every other sharingan genjutsu shown before it requires it and it isn't explicitly stated or shown that it wasn't done without eye contact.

Using genjutsu to create an opening or trick the opponent isn't the same as using it to flat out manipulate them into performing the actions you desire. Sasuke could've easily been referring to how they planned to incapacitate Kabuto if they couldn't use their more powerful sharingan genjutsu which have been shown to require direct eye contact.


I never said effortless, but the fact remains that he had the time to grow an entire tree out of his arm before the arrow could cross the distance. You can't tell me Gaara's sand can't block in that time when it can stop Amaterasu. Gaara has also essentially instantaneously materialized his sand at distant locations at multiple occasions (saving Sasuke from A and saving Mei from the Susano'os)

The tree grew as Danzo was redirecting the attack and it also appeared instantaneously, the arrow was already in Danzo's arm he was just using the tree to direct it away from his body.

Also as for the "instant materialization" in the Mei scenario the answer is simple, Gaara had the advantage of the terrain, the battlefield was a desert so he didn't have to materialize anything the sand could've come from the ground nearby and Gaara's sand surely has the speed to react to a Susano'o strike.

For the A scenario, I have a few alternative theories: (1) Gaara could have arrived on the scene and had his sand out to stop the fight without anyone noticing and (2) A wasn't using his normal attack speed rather he was falling down and only moving at the speed at which he could fall which would also explain why Sasuke was suddenly able to react and manipulate his Amaterasu flames when seconds earlier he couldn't even see where A was going.


It doesn't seem to be getting through that Gaara intentionally had his clone (that was mixed with heavier/slower gold) get hit. He needed to stop Joki Boi from exploding. He faked guarding with the clone since he wanted it to get hit in the first place.

I understand this point completely but why would Gaara set it up that way if his gourd sand was fast enough to catch Jouki Boy in the first place. The only logical explanation is that he wasn't fast enough to do it himself and so he had to set up a trap.

Well, genjutsu works by disturbing the opponents chakra and I doubt disturbing the chakra of a floating ball of sand is going to do anything to Gaara even if there is a sensory link. Supposing it does, Gaara still has his sensing sand.

The third eye is obviously a ninja technique meaning it requires chakra and it was explained back in part 1 that the chakra network is finely intertwined with the human anatomy. Gaara says when he uses his third eye he connects the optic nerve which would mean he is also connecting the chakra network that flows around it.

Your argument rests upon Sasuke using non-eye contact genjutsu on a Kage level opponent to find a small opening against him. Despite the fact that this opponent has knowledge on Sasuke's abilities and has an auto-defense mechanism that operates independent of his will whether he's under a genjutsu or not. This of course is assuming Sasuke can use non eye-contact genjutsu which has never been explicitly stated or shown; with past precedence, character statements, and logic dictating that he cannot.

I have given examples of where he has you are the one trying to explain why those examples don't work so I do in fact have past precedence.

I could even make the assertion that Gaara is immune to genjutsu in the sense that B and Naruto are, because his mom sand would knock him out of it. He's never been shown to be caught in any genjutsu except for the 2nd Miz's which is environmental and continuously reestablishes itself. Of course there has never been a panel explicitly showing his sand waking him from genjutsu, but there hasn't been one showing non eye-contact genjutsu from Sasuke either.


I keep telling you that there is no clear panel of Shee establishing eye contact with Sasuke. Shee was completely focused on A and Juugo's battle he had lost track of Sasuke. Sasuke was seen up on a wall gathering chakra and the next thing Shee knew he was paralyzed. He didn't know when it even happened this is the perfect example of sharingan genjutsu without eye contact. And it was strong enough to paralyze someone who had trained in genjutsu their whole life meaning Gaara who's had no training in it would be very susceptible to being incapacitated, even with an indomitable will and huge chakra supplies genjutsu from a skilled sharingan user can still have that effect as we've seen both Naruto and A freeze under it. So Gaara being intelligent, strong willed, and Kage level will mean nothing.

Also, your theory of Gaara's sand breaking him out doesn't work because it would require that the sand not only has it's own chakra (which I might find believable based on what we've seen from Minato and Kushina) but that it can insert that chakra into other humans and disrupt their chakra networks, that's something that doesn't just require chakra but chakra control and that's where I'd say you're theory falls apart.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:06 PM   #69
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

Sasuke could do not put get Kabuto in a genjutsu with his eye sealed. which proves he need eye contact. Gaara nothing wins this Sasuke has nothing to stop from being caught crushed and seld under a sand tsunami. Sasuke isn't using Genjutsu on Gaara
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:47 PM   #70
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

What can get past Garr's sand dome shield? ( the thing he used against dediara)

Garra does not have to use his 3rd eye cuz it's risky eye contact. Instead garra can use sand sensing to avoid genjutsu!!!!!!!!!

Garra will be hard to hit in the air
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:33 PM   #71
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

honesty this is a hard battle, i think sasuke takes this by the skin of his teeth, if sasuke looks directly at him n casts amaterasu its wraps, but gaara was strong enough to pull madara out of his susanoo, this 1 is tough
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:28 PM   #72
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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honesty this is a hard battle, i think sasuke takes this by the skin of his teeth, if sasuke looks directly at him n casts amaterasu its wraps, but gaara was strong enough to pull madara out of his susanoo, this 1 is tough
Gaara has already proven he can outspeed amaterasu with his Sand Gaara Gets in the air and spans down sasuke is getting crushed
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:20 AM   #73
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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Originally Posted by ko lee View Post
Sasuke could do not put get Kabuto in a genjutsu with his eye sealed. which proves he need eye contact. Gaara nothing wins this Sasuke has nothing to stop from being caught crushed and seld under a sand tsunami. Sasuke isn't using Genjutsu on Gaara
Please read the comment right above this one explaining why that's wrong.

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
What can get past Garr's sand dome shield? ( the thing he used against dediara)

Garra does not have to use his 3rd eye cuz it's risky eye contact. Instead garra can use sand sensing to avoid genjutsu!!!!!!!!!

Garra will be hard to hit in the air
So he's going to be in his dome without vision of his opponent using the sand to sense his movements? What if Sasuke gets on his hawk? Then Gaara's basically blind and open to any of Sasuke's attacks.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:37 AM   #74
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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Please read the comment right above this one explaining why that's wrong.



So he's going to be in his dome without vision of his opponent using the sand to sense his movements? What if Sasuke gets on his hawk? Then Gaara's basically blind and open to any of Sasuke's attacks.
You are going on an assumption backed up only by what you perceive, the kabuto fight disproves any of your theories. Techniques are depicted with names especially new jutsu we haven't seen. Unless its already been shown the fact no new name was release leaves me to believe it was the same sharingan bs we have always seen. Even Itachi's finger pointing genjutsu had a name. If Sasuke takes this to flight he is an idiot Gaara quicky flanks him with sand, his hawk has shown nothing to leave me to believe he can out maneuver it. Sasuke loses Gaara has shown verified feats we can utilize to make this argument. While you are running only on speculation over an unverified panel which is obviously a use of eyes to activate a genjutsu. Gaara wins this fight, your speculation isn't going to stop that.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:16 PM   #75
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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More sand out of the wet floor (including minerals in the ground)? It would turn into mud instantly, that and the rain cloud has only shown that it only stops after Sasuke does Kirin, it has not shown limit in time.
if he can save just a little bit of sand then the floor being wet wont matter because he can go deeper in the ground
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:15 PM   #76
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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You are going on an assumption backed up only by what you perceive, the kabuto fight disproves any of your theories. Techniques are depicted with names especially new jutsu we haven't seen. Unless its already been shown the fact no new name was release leaves me to believe it was the same sharingan bs we have always seen. Even Itachi's finger pointing genjutsu had a name. If Sasuke takes this to flight he is an idiot Gaara quicky flanks him with sand, his hawk has shown nothing to leave me to believe he can out maneuver it. Sasuke loses Gaara has shown verified feats we can utilize to make this argument. While you are running only on speculation over an unverified panel which is obviously a use of eyes to activate a genjutsu. Gaara wins this fight, your speculation isn't going to stop that.
It's not speculation. It is a verified feat, Sasuke uses his eyes for the genjutsu but that does NOT mean his genjutsu requires eye contact. Thus your premise is flawed. And btw "speculation based on what I perceive" that's half of what we do in the BGs we interpret panels as evidence for our arguments. In both the Deidara fight and the Shee fight we had no eye contact being established and genjutsu being used. It is VERY clear (now that I look back at the panels) that Shee had no idea where Sasuke was, he had completely lost track of him as I've said numerous times. You can't make eye contact with someone you can't even see. Until you can verify that Deidara or Shee made eye contact do not try to keep shifting the burden of proof onto me.

The hawk strategy wasn't directed towards you that was at whoever said Gaara can just enter his sand sphere and not use the third eye and can attack by sensing. So yeah.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:20 PM   #77
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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It's not speculation. It is a verified feat, Sasuke uses his eyes for the genjutsu but that does NOT mean his genjutsu requires eye contact. Thus your premise is flawed. And btw "speculation based on what I perceive" that's half of what we do in the BGs we interpret panels as evidence for our arguments. In both the Deidara fight and the Shee fight we had no eye contact being established and genjutsu being used. It is VERY clear (now that I look back at the panels) that Shee had no idea where Sasuke was, he had completely lost track of him as I've said numerous times. You can't make eye contact with someone you can't even see. Until you can verify that Deidara or Shee made eye contact do not try to keep shifting the burden of proof onto me.

The hawk strategy wasn't directed towards you that was at whoever said Gaara can just enter his sand sphere and not use the third eye and can attack by sensing. So yeah.
Chapter 359 page 5 - Chapter 360 pg 15 discredits your whole argument on Deidara not only does he STARE into Sasuke's eyes HE TALKS ABOUT THEM causing a flash back of Itachi THEN ENDS UP IN A GENJUTSU. So your point is completely dis-proven. Go back and re-read you need too, eye contact was made.

Chapter 462 page 5 Shows Cee look directly into Sasuke's eyes there is no other way to decipher that so once again your point is invalid now please stop with your pointless argument it has been dis-proven as of now even with pages. Your speculation is flawed in this one re-read, and try again in some other thread. Your argument holds no ground at all anymore.

Sasuke needs eye contact to cast his genjutsu so GG, Gaara wins this fight. Good try

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Old 02-17-2013, 05:25 PM   #78
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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Chapter 359 page 5 - Chapter 360 pg 15 discredits your whole argument on Deidara not only does he STARE into Sasuke's eyes HE TALKS ABOUT THEM causing a flash back of Itachi THEN ENDS UP IN A GENJUTSU. So your point is completely dis-proven. Go back and re-read you need too, eye contact was made.

Chapter 462 page 5 Shows Cee look directly into Sasuke's eyes there is no other way to decipher that so once again your point is invalid now please stop with your pointless argument it has been dis-proven as of now even with pages. Your speculation is flawed in this one re-read, and try again in some other thread. Your argument holds no ground at all anymore.

Sasuke needs eye contact to cast his genjutsu so GG, Gaara wins this fight. Good try
LOL You're not bringing up anything new . I already addressed these points in previous posts. Go back and reread, you need to.

Deidara did comment on the eyes but that was a significant time before genjutsu was activated. Sasuke didn't use genjutsu until much later in the fight. First he had to use his sharingan to figure out how the nanobombs worked and then he had to use the right genjutsu for the situation. There was no way he activated a genjutsu before he even knew what was about to happen or what he would need it for. The more logical explanation is that once he used his sharingan to figure out how the nanobombs worked he used genjutsu (that didn't require eye contact) to trick Deidara into thinking he'd died.

Moreover, Godaime already brought up that point you are trying to make about Shee, . The silhouette with the sharingan eyes that appears in Shee's face WAS the genjutsu. It was the sign that Shee had already gotten trapped that wasn't Sasuke making eye contact, it was just the symbol that he was in sharingan genjutsu. After Shee gets incapacitated you see Sasuke a significant distance away holding his left eye. He was nowhere near Shee he was just looking at him from far away to activate his technique.

Did you honestly think I would make these arguments without looking up the panels that I'm using for my claims? You've gone back after the fact to try to do what a previous member did and made I response I'd already expected. It's ok though...

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Old 02-17-2013, 05:51 PM   #79
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

Whatever. I don't agree and I won't. Enjoy it bro, I mean you are the only person that believes what your saying have a nice day.

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Old 02-17-2013, 05:56 PM   #80
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Default Re: Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

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So he's going to be in his dome without vision of his opponent using the sand to sense his movements? What if Sasuke gets on his hawk? Then Gaara's basically blind and open to any of Sasuke's attacks.


Yeps. Well sand sensing can sense wherever and whatever he does. Even if he gets on his hawk a sand hail/shower will easily hit saskue. Plus it will be hard to get though Garra's defensives . Susanoo arrow would be his only chance but the hawk would not support Susanoo
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