Spoiler Rate Tobirama

[Kioroshi.]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

No saskue fan here
And I would not call him awesome. Are you a tobirama fan? How is he so awesome when he feared his villagers and caused distrust and created edo tensi and could not stabilize peace

I only give him credit for establishing like 3 things.... Which was not a major feat

So i asked you are you a sasuke fan and you accused me of being tobirama fan cuz of that,really mature on your part.And no i am not also he did stabilize peace.He created ET for uknown reasons and you should not even talk about it till we get some information on the subject.


Would you rather have an uchiha go on rampage due to their mental disease?Well that would have hundreds of victims,so you decide did tobirama stabilize peace.

[PrinceofPeace]

lol I was just curious. How does that make me immature?

He did not stablize peace. There was war during his reign.
He created ET against Hashirama wishes. If Hashirama did not agree it could not be for good reason

I would rather trust the Uchiha so they have no reason to go on a rampage. I would keep them close than farther to the village to show trust and it would be easier to watch them

what happened to our Kisame vs Oro thread?

[Rikudo-Sennin Kage]

Originally Posted by Kakashi Hatake_Yamato

He's awesome too. A++++++
It's fun to watch him and Hashirama together. One is serious while the other is jocular.

I agree Kakashi-Sensei! He helped to solve some mystery. He also helped with the formation of Konoha.

[PrinceofPeace]

But the Police Force is what caused the distrust! It's not even used anymore

[mizukage_sama]

There is no reason to argue with Prince of peace. He just doesn't want to like Tobirama. He keeps twisting some facts, making ENORMOUS assumptions, and ignoring valid points. If you don't want to like Tobirama, that is definitely your right. But there is no reason to constantly slander the character. I say you just wait for the coming chapters, and we'll all get a better idea about who Tobirama really is.

[Rikudo-Sennin Kage]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

But the Police Force is what caused the distrust! It's not even used anymore

My fault, I should get rid of the Police Force thing in my post.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

I meant to say Tobi and not Tobirama.And NO he was not compelety right about Saskue.


That is why a spy would get the info without being a clan memeber. You have no proof there was another Uchiha spy besides Itachi.


What was the reason to move them in the first place? As stated by Tobi moving the Uchiha made it eaasier to watch them. Tobirama wanted to distance the Uchiha from the governing of the villagers.

And the point about Tobirama essentially saying "figures the Uchiha is with the enemy?" Well, he had his issues with Uchiha, he said that "they almost always turn bad once they unlock the eye/brain powers," and low and behold, he's RIGHT on Sasuke doing harm. Remember Karin? Remember SAsuke's own words about destruction and darkness?
Gaining new eye power does not make them evil.
Itachi, Shishi , and young Saskue are proof of this
Like anybody the Uchiha are provoked to be evil.
Tobirama watching over them provoked them

Sasuke is not proof. He's proof of evil.
PTS Saskue gained new eye powers while losing beloved people but that did not make him evil. The loss of his brother and the truth of him made him evil
Shisui and Itachi you can have. That's why Tobirama said "almost always." My and Tobirama's point still hold true. And no they are not "provoked to be evil (like anybody). They get the eye power through loss of love, that (UNLIKE MOST PEOPLE) leads to hate.
Madara is also an example. Once he lost his brother he was not evil. He stayed the same. The only example of an Uchiha being evil is Saskue atm. Madara did not becoming evil automatically it was a fair proccess of being betrayed
And again, Tobirama claims first hand knowledge. So since you keep backing Hashirama so much, explain why he didn't say Tobirama was wrong about saying they almost always turn evil? Maybe Hashirama wanted to help them overcome their issues, but Tobirama is not interested or obligated. And that is why hashirama says don't talk about them that way. And why Tobirama says he's right.
Tobirama was far weaker and needed to watch the Uchiha. Yes The uchiha are cursed with evil but they do not have to follow that path of evil. They did not while Hashirama was in charge. If Tobirama trusted them their would be no reason for the Uchiha's to be suspsious or hate. Gaining new eye powers does not make one evil nor does losing people but its what happens to one. They are not born evil but are most likely to be evil. Yet treated correctly and that is not an issue.

agreed.


So are you defending ET? How is ET good?


If the village comes first then why treat the Uchiha like they were not apart of the village? If they were left alone none of this would have happened. The Uchiha did not give Tobirama a reason to not trust them

No our situation of terroist and their is totally different because in the manga "terrorists" do not effect us IF WE TRUST THEM
--------------------------------------------------------------------
what facts have I twisted? What assumptions?I give credit to Tobirama for what he desereved for

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

Cornoring The Uchiha is what lead to the Relbellious elements. Tobirama did not give a time period of when they started. Hashirama was outraged Tobirama would do something like that so Hashirma must have not seen these elements. So most likely the rebellious elements came after they were cornoned. Oro or Tobi would have mentioned if the Uchiha did something before even Tobirama should have mentioned it

If that were true than the Uchiha would have helped Madara.Instead they turned their backs to him. There is no proof of the Uchiha doing anything wrong after the Madara attack and before they were conronerd. Their acts were not mentioned to be bad or any actions at all.



Madara returned to attack the Leaf with the Kyuubi, before Tobirama's time as hokage. So immediately and unequivecally disproves your point of Uchiha feeling sorry for madara.
how so?
And rebellious elements means rebels against government or the status quo. That also disproves your point. And you are confusing the "sympathizers," with the "rebellious element." And you are connecting the sympathizers with Madara, when you should be connecting them to supporting the rebel movement since they were pigeon holed into the police force. That was the context given by Orochimaru. the police force does not affect Madara, so a police force promoting sympathizers is about the rebel movement/"elements."
It was not just the police force that promoted the sympathizers. It was how they were conronerd and watched and mistreated like lap dogs. Madara;s predicition came true. And we do not know anyting about the rebellious elements. Tobirama was scared of them afterall so he could have been all in his head. We can not even agree when the elements took place in time.

I know this because Madara was long gone. They would have formed their own leadership within konoha if the rebel movement occured later on, after Tobirama became Hokage. But since they follow Madara's will, an outcast, there you go. Maybe they supported Hashirama in the beginning because he was a nice guy. Seems obvious as to why he was chosen Hokage, given everything we say of him in ch. 619. And maybe they supported him later, because he kept Madara from destroying their homes and village.


So now Hashirama is not smart? Wow please tell me how so! And yes the Uchiha were rebelling because of the mistreatment started of Tobirama

And tried to give them a way to vent, by letting them be a police force and get rough if they need to let it out a little.

The Uchiah did not ask for this. They are not a bloolusted clan. The police had resticitions and they could not be ANBU or persecute ANBU and teh ANBU were the ones watching the Uchiha.

They hid their rebellious elements/movement. Aiding and abetting. Again a clan isn't a race. It is tight-knit, and maybe if the Uchiha clan leader could lead, Tobirama wouldn't have to take those steps. Again they are following the lead/will of Madara, a terrorist.
When did the Uchiha hide thier rebllious movements? Tobirama could not even lead correctly. Again there were not elements before Tobirama created the police force it was AFTER



And a strong police force would promote peace in the village. It's the best decision he thought he could make all around.

Tobirama tried to do the right thing but messed up by keeping tabs on them cuz Tobirama was in fear of the Uchiha. The As Oro said the ones who control crime tend to be disliked and become concieted

No, the Uchiha couldn't police themselves. That's the basis of the PAST AND THE PRESENT. why else do you think Itachi agreed to kill them all, rather than give his clan a fare fight. Your counter would probably be something like, the village would come first and he didnt want all the deaths. Well Itachi thought like a hokage at 7, supposedly. And neither he nor Hiruzen could work out a peaceful compromise? WHY? Why, I ask, WHY? They wanted peace.
Of course the uchiha could not police themseleves. Hiruzen was the only one who wanted peace. Tobirama could not even stablize it. Itachi wanted to keep his bro safe most importantly.

And of course he kept tabs in my opinion because Im going off the rebel presence being present the whole time.
but there was no reason to watch them when they did not do anything wrong. They just ditched their leader and they were fine ever since

hard to keep up with but Im done

I was confused why did you not just quote reguarlly?

The point is the trouble started AFTER Tobirama "tried" to organize them

[Kioroshi.]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

lol I was just curious. How does that make me immature?

He did not stablize peace. There was war during his reign.
He created ET against Hashirama wishes. If Hashirama did not agree it could not be for good reason

I would rather trust the Uchiha so they have no reason to go on a rampage. I would keep them close than farther to the village to show trust and it would be easier to watch them

what happened to our Kisame vs Oro thread?

The fact you don't get what i meant makes you immature


And Kisame vs Oro thread is boring there is wall of text on every post.I don't wanna debate a boring thing,also i stated my points repedeatly and had to repeat and repeat,I don't wanna repeat again.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

hard to keep up with but Im done

I was confused why did you not just quote reguarlly?

The point is the trouble started AFTER Tobirama "tried" to organize them

Because quoting you loses the original statement by me that you were countering. You lose context. And you started first with putting your response within the single quote, rather than multiquoting.

and I'll just comment on two of yours.

Madara returned to attack the Leaf with the Kyuubi, before Tobirama's time as hokage. So immediately and unequivecally disproves your point of Uchiha feeling sorry for madara.
how so?

ehhh, he attacked their town. Why would they feel sorry for him.


So now Hashirama is not smart? Wow please tell me how so! And yes the Uchiha were rebelling because of the mistreatment started of Tobirama

I go by the way Hashirama was drawn. The body language, blurting out between Tobirama and orochimaru. Getting really exciting about the 4th.

[PrinceofPeace]

Oh true well then keep on keeping on thn.

Because madara's out coming came true. Plus Madara did not harm the uchiha themselves. And Madara was still their leader who fought and lead them. The uchiha are not heartless and non forgiving. Madara had a right to be angry and attack especially since his predictions came true.

Lol how does that show stupidity. He just showed a lot of emotion.
If anything he is not a genius not stupid. HASHIRAMA lead a nation and arranged treaties and taught others. He is definetly not stupid. An you should not assume it by body language or first appearances. After all naruto is not stupid maybe silly but he has battle smarts.

[Kioroshi.]

I think you like hashirama way more then tobirama which you hate and are trying to prove that he sucks?thats the whole point i believe.


you are not giving tobirama credit he deserves.

[PrinceofPeace]

Did you read the thread I gave Tobirama creit
-creating Academy
-Creating ANBU
-Chunnin Exams

(Somebdoy would have done the things above eventually but I still give props.)
-Stalled the Kinkau force so others could get away (which any hokage would do)

Do I love hashirama HECK YA!
Do I love Tobirama HECK NO!
But that does not mean I can show my opinon and ask for others. It's not like I am saying false info

Hashirama treated the Uchiha's better than Tobirama. And it is obvious that Hashirama is a better hokage.

Idk why you are coming at my neck and complaining instead of supplying the facts and debating me.

If you want to bring up an agrument fine I will debate you....BUT. If you are going to say I am immature and a hatter and what not then I am not going to respond to you on this thread.

And I address my main point again if you would like to have a disscussion:

Tobirama had NO NEED to watch over and control the Uchiha. The Uchiha did not need a role. They were treated differently for no reason. After all they did not do anything wrong. They even ditched their leader for the village. Why Tobirama!?!? Why do you watch them. Why did you create ET!?!? WHy could you not stablize peace!

[joon61]

He was a better hokage than Tsunade and Danzo. So I like him.

[PrinceofPeace]

Latley I would have to disagree. Tsuande has been a GREAT hokage. People do not give her enough creidt
-She was hokage in a dire state of the leaf
-she established peace with the Sand ninja
-She improved the Medical corps
-she healed VITAL ninja (Kakashi)
-She taught Sakura
-She protected her people during the Pain crisis
-She fought for Naruto's freedom
-She helped rebuild the village ...AGAIN
-She is fighting Madara

And Danzo was NOT a hokage....he was a caniditate

[kalmeast]

apologize to tobirama...this guys chakra alone is tearing the ground apart...

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

apologize to tobirama...this guys chakra alone is tearing the ground apart...

Well, the wall. The floor cracks are coming from Hashirama.

[kalmeast]

ah...i thought that was tobi for a sec...but still...he's super powerful...and needs apology ...

[Kakashi Hatake_Yamato]

I'm still giving Tobirama an A++++++++

[Kioroshi.]

Tobirama had NO NEED to watch over and control the Uchiha. The Uchiha did not need a role. They were treated differently for no reason. After all they did not do anything wrong. They even ditched their leader for the village. Why Tobirama!?!? Why do you watch them. Why did you create ET!?!? WHy could you not stablize peace!

He needed to watch over them in case they went mad and killed hundreds of innocent people in the village.


Btw guys pls stop spoiling i just read one of your comments before reading teh chapter....