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Old 02-05-2013, 12:17 PM   #1
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Default A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

So after this last chapter, I couldn't help but go back to the theory that the Senju and Uchiha were in fact gifted with, not the sages but, the Juubi's eyes and body. Here we see something important if we consider the chapter. We are told that when the Uchiha experience that emotional turmoil it unlocks a special chakra (note, special and unknown to the Senju).

I would state that the special chakra they are "unlocking" is in fact the Juubi's chakra, and that is where those eyes come from. It is why (I stated this in a theory prior) the Uchiha's eyes look the way they do! I would also state that, as further evidence, that as we see how the Bijuu react to emotion, how Kurama and even the SHukaku would feed off negative emotions, and drive hatred beyond reasonableness (almost into madness as we saw with Gaara), that the Juubi's inherent will still resides locked away in the Uchiha. The tablet is probably a guide to unlocking that power, and information on how that power is to be controlled properly. It is likely that none have ever achieved that. This could also tie the Uchiha to the younger son, who's philosophy was love and friendship as his most valued criteria. It would then make sense that only the strongest Uchiha would be able to read the tablet, and actually control the power by being moved through love and friendship as opposed to hate. The problem being (as we see) those who unlock the eyes without the adequate power/knowledge go mad! (e.g.. Madara, Obito, Sasuke).

I would then state that the Uzumaki are related to the Sage of Six Paths, but the elder son, who favors Strength and Power! Why? They also possess this special chakra, however (since we don't have as much info) they are not as susceptible to emotions in what they do. They are able to use that special chakra and host the Bijuu so that the Bijuu will not over come them since (as we are told) you have to be filled with love and kindness in order to master their power. This is the reason why the Uzumaki were chosen as the Bijuu host as opposed to the Uchiha, we can imagine since they are as sensitive as we are told, that the Bijuu would go on a rampage and take them over!

Finally, when Tobirama states that the the powers are unknown to the Senju (as I stated above) it makes me wonder if the Senju are actually the direct descendants of the Sage or not! Meaning the Senju were not gifted with anything in particular in terms of the "special chakra" in which we see both the Uzumaki and Uchiha have! I am not positive what their role is then if they are no longer tied to the Sage of Six Paths, but it would be an interesting twist!
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:27 PM   #2
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

Interesting. I'm too lazy to address the whole thing but I can easily see where you're coming from about the Uchiha's relation to Juubi.

It is said Juubi is the source of all chakra, or something like that. So its probably got a deeper, fundamental relationship to shinobi than we know about at the moment.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:33 PM   #3
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

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Interesting. I'm too lazy to address the whole thing but I can easily see where you're coming from about the Uchiha's relation to Juubi.

It is said Juubi is the source of all chakra, or something like that. So its probably got a deeper, fundamental relationship to shinobi than we know about at the moment.
I would actually state that the reason Madara unlocked the Rinnegan was probably a moment of emotional stability. It HAD to have something to do with the Uzumaki and his relationship with them (since he gave his eyes to Nagato, he HAD to have SOME).

It would also explain why Madara was so mellow when he was connected to the Gedo. Its likely that being connected to the Gedo was a way of stabilizing the flow of chakra. Having a larger body and a place for that special chakra to go that isn't destructive would certainly stabilize the anything! This is all theoretical of course.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

This makes sense. Its said all uzamski have incredible amounts of chakra. This makes them perfect host for the bijuu so even if the bijuu drains some of their chakra they are still able to recover quickly and maintain control. As far as the senju being related to so6p I now believe their not. Why cuz ever since naruto could control the nine tail the more control he gets the more he looks like the sage. I believe the Uchiha are also cuz I don't know if anyone noticed itachis necklace but it's the same designe as the so6p. But the senju were never stronger than the Uchiha it's said that they formed a truce. Uchiha were know for being the best clan around. Ok so the top senju who developed a great Hutus beat the top Uchiha who as we know or don't know wasnt even at full potential yet but still have him a run for his money. As far as the uzamaki I can't remember reading anywhere saying that they were even fighters. They were seal artist and that's why they were used.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

Its not that the Senju don't fit a role, in fact they are the prefect rivals for the Uchiha because their specialize wood style is able to suppress the chakra. Its creates an important balancing act, and furthermore solidifies why the Senju and Uzumaki were so closely tied together! one could suppress the bijuu and the other could seal it and contain it within them!

The Uchiha could also contain or control the Bijuu (outside of their body) but they were not able to have it sealed! They could use it by directing it from outside. Its why I think if Madara were to actually become the Juubi host, the Juubi would run rampant and devour him, leaving the Juubi and Naruto.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

Sry I wasn't saying they didn't have a role just that I agree with the fact that the uzamaki not the senju were related. We here the story of the 2 brothers from an Uchiha so how accurate can it be. That all I'm saying I mean without the senju the Uchiha would probally rule the shinobi world but their too violent so like u said the senju are their to put them in their place. And btw only 1 senju had the wood style until Yamato came about
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

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Sry I wasn't saying they didn't have a role just that I agree with the fact that the uzamaki not the senju were related. We here the story of the 2 brothers from an Uchiha so how accurate can it be. That all I'm saying I mean without the senju the Uchiha would probally rule the shinobi world but their too violent so like u said the senju are their to put them in their place. And btw only 1 senju had the wood style until Yamato came about
Agreed, Hashirama was a very unique individual! We don't know a whole lot about who had the wood technique, in fact we are only privy to know about 3 Senju (Hashirama, Tobirama and Tsunade..not counting Nawaki). So we really have no idea how many were able to master the KG, its pretty well know that not every clan member is blessed with the ability to utilize it, but Hashirama was definitely the most powerful user.

Yamato wasn't actually a Senju (far as we know), he was the surviving result of Orochimaru messing around with genetics on the leaf children. He survived and ended up with it!
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:19 PM   #8
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

We could imagine that the uzumaki were the link between the clans. Descending originally from the Uchiha, but the sprouts were not on the brain or that part of the brain, but elsewhere. And they were almost the senju's hope at peace. They could lock away their negative emotions and still develop power. and so were they were naturally gifted with seals too. Maybe they were the original Uchiha who wanted peace with the senju. And they defected rather than war. And they were the brothers the senju wish they could be related too. So they developed a bond and the senju adopted their patch for konoha.

Or

There was a Uchiha and a Senju who defected from their clans to form a family and the chakras blended together like yin/yang or say a uzumaki swirl. And the uzumaki clan was born. They were good with seals. Like sealing things together. Containing things. Like being the ultimate carriers of chakra.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:43 AM   #9
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

Hmm. This just triggered a really interesting thought. What if we've had it all wrong this whole time? The two sides are in fact Uchiha vs. Uzumaki , and the Senju act as the balance of power....
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:25 AM   #10
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

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Originally Posted by SilentBlade View Post
So after this last chapter, I couldn't help but go back to the theory that the Senju and Uchiha were in fact gifted with, not the sages but, the Juubi's eyes and body. Here we see something important if we consider the chapter. We are told that when the Uchiha experience that emotional turmoil it unlocks a special chakra (note, special and unknown to the Senju).
hmmm... I agree

I would state that the special chakra they are "unlocking" is in fact the Juubi's chakra, and that is where those eyes come from.
Excellent

It is why (I stated this in a theory prior) the Uchiha's eyes look the way they do! I would also state that, as further evidence, that as we see how the Bijuu react to emotion, how Kurama and even the SHukaku would feed off negative emotions, and drive hatred beyond reasonableness (almost into madness as we saw with Gaara), that the Juubi's inherent will still resides locked away in the Uchiha.
ok...makes sense

The tablet is probably a guide to unlocking that power, and information on how that power is to be controlled properly. It is likely that none have ever achieved that.

This could also tie the Uchiha to the younger son, who's philosophy was love and friendship as his most valued criteria.
As descendants of the younger son? that'd contradict variables given in the facts...without those fact's we don't have reason for theory and re-writing the fact to give meaning to the theory isn't as legit. i'd stick to the given facts...that uchiha are descendants of the older son. The fact that he believes in war doesn't make him love-less and the fact that he has even greater love, doesn't make his the younger son.


It would then make sense that only the strongest Uchiha would be able to read the tablet, and actually control the power by being moved through love and friendship as opposed to hate. The problem being (as we see) those who unlock the eyes without the adequate power/knowledge go mad! (e.g.. Madara, Obito, Sasuke).
are you insinuating that if they can control that hate and overcome it with love, then their strength would be even greater?

and what do you mean by only the strongest uchiha? haven't those with just sharingan been able to read part of the table? and those with MS even more?
why'd you say, Madara doesn't have the adequate power...what power are you speaking about?



I would then state that the Uzumaki are related to the Sage of Six Paths, but the elder son, who favors Strength and Power! Why? They also possess this special chakra, however (since we don't have as much info) they are not as susceptible to emotions in what they do. They are able to use that special chakra and host the Bijuu so that the Bijuu will not over come them since (as we are told) you have to be filled with love and kindness in order to master their power. This is the reason why the Uzumaki were chosen as the Bijuu host as opposed to the Uchiha, we can imagine since they are as sensitive as we are told, that the Bijuu would go on a rampage and take them over!

well...the bolded underlined sentences are a contradiction... you liken the uzumaki to the elder son who favors strength and power yet you conclude by saying you have to be filled by love and friendship (attribute of the younger son) in order to be the bijuu host, thus uzumaki were chosen... explain, how they could be both?

But the explanation why the Uchiha cannot be hosts of bijuu is adorable...


Finally, when Tobirama states that the the powers are unknown to the Senju (as I stated above) it makes me wonder if the Senju are actually the direct descendants of the Sage or not! Meaning the Senju were not gifted with anything in particular in terms of the "special chakra" in which we see both the Uzumaki and Uchiha have! I am not positive what their role is then if they are no longer tied to the Sage of Six Paths, but it would be an interesting twist!

well...why'd you expect the senju to have any sort of special chakra? didn't you already speculate that, that special chakra is from the juubi...so why would the lack of special chakra question their relation to the sage.

Besides, if you question that, then you're linking special chakra as attribute to both the sage and the juubi which would affect the cohesiveness of your earlier hypothesis of the uchiha...


Also, the sage doesn't only have special chakra to offer...he also has Life-force and Physical Energy which is clearly evident among the Senju... So the idea that they're not related to the sage because they don't have special chakra is like me saying Uchiha are not related to the sage because they don't have life-force. The reasoning is too stretched.
I like the Uchiha part of the theory the most. More plausible and interesting.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:34 AM   #11
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

Interesting theory. Something just came to mind. You know how the original dojutsu of the so6p was supposed to be a swirl? Well the uzumaki symbol is a swirl. Coincidence, or not? Also, naruto has the same necklace and cloak as the sage in his current kyuubi form. He also reminds all the bijuu of the sage, and is now defending the world from the ten-tails. Is it all tied or linked together, or is this all just coincidence?
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:07 AM   #12
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

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I like the Uchiha part of the theory the most. More plausible and interesting.
ok, so to address some of these issues! The reason I state that the younger son is related to the Uchiha is from what we learn about the Uchiha recently. That they place Love and Friendship above all (that includes power and strength). That basic fact and the fact that through that they have the ability to awaken incredible power is something that needs to be addressed. Its not that they can release their ultimate power through strength and power, but through love and friendship! It is why it is the younger son's creed (likely) and how it relates them.

yes, I am hinting at, if they can control their hate and overwhelm it with love their power will be even greater. Controlling emotions is not an easy thing, but from what we have seen, its inherent in their max power to have emotions, so to master them is the only way to maximize their power and keep rational control over themselves. What I am getting at here is that Madara, Obito and Sasuke did not have the ability to control their emotions, thus they had the power but were irrational! That being said, it likely messed with them!

Just unlocking the Sharingan (I believe) comes from the feeling of friendship! we saw it with Obito and Sasuke, they unlocked it just in time to help their friend. The MS likely comes from either a feeling of great love or despair as we saw also with Obito, Sasuke, Itachi and potentially Shisu (we don't know, but my guess is this works on both ends of the emotional spectrum). The reason the normal Sharingan is not as unstable is because the emotion of friendship isn't as volatile an emotion as love/despair!

Addressing the Uzumaki being filled with love and that making them the ultimate host, yet having them be related to the elder son isn't to difficult. Its not that they cannot feel or be filled with love and friendship, it is that they are not ruled by it! love, friendship, despair and betrayal are all facts of life, but it takes greater strength and power to fight the negative emotions while embracing the positive ones. That said, we see during Naruto's Bijuu training and during his time with Nagato, that he had the power and strength to restrain himself, to fight his negative emotions, and not be swayed. Thus my conclusion here is it takes the elder son's strength and power to control ones emotions, and not be ruled by irrational actions due to that.

The reason I refer to this special chakra, and then to the Senju not being related is that "something" was left to his sons. They say the eyes and the body of the sage were left to the elder and younger son respectively. With that said, we see something the Uzumaki and the Uchiha have that are inexplicable to the Senju, because the Senju apparently do not have it. That means that either the Senju alone are related to the younger son and the Uzumaki/Uchiha to the elder or vice versa! meaning the Uzumaki and Uchiha used to be a single clan that split! Either way something unique ties the Uchiha and Uzumaki together more closely than the Uzumaki and Senju.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:34 AM   #13
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

I think it is quite clear that the Senju do possess some sort of special chakra whatsoever, since their medical skills are brilliant, it seems as if their body is really something amazing (meaning they did inherit the Sage's body).

Their bodies are very durable and their medical skills are exceptional. This has been witnessed in Tsunade (during the battle with Madara) and in some flashbacks in Hashirama.

//

Regarding the inheritance of Rikudo and how his both sons might have inherited the Juubi's chakra and not Rikudo's, I have made a thread that might relate. It is about Juubi's creation, how it might've been created by Rikudo himself (possibly using his own DNA) and having it created for other reasons and ironically it happened that the Juubi did the opposite of what it was supposed to do.

So, if the Juubi has Rikudo's DNA and Rikudo's sons have his DNA as well, it might be that the physical traits they inherited were possibly similar to the Juubi thus making your theory true.

(here is the thread : Juubi's Creation ; it lacks a lot of details, I was waiting to have a discussion with you, kalmeast and other great debaters but unfortunately I had no attention to the thread by any of you thus making it a scrapped idea)

//

Also, it is interesting how the Senju were actually gifted with the Sage's body, yet we haven't witnessed a Senju jinchuriki yet but we have witnessed several Uzumaki jinchuriki.

I'm thinking that both the Uzumaki and Senju have the Sage's body and his power, but those powers were split, maybe the body power (perhaps its spiritual durability since they are able to manipulate chakra in order to heal themselves) went to the Senju and the body (physical durability) went to the Uzumaki.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyūbi no Yōko View Post
I think it is quite clear that the Senju do possess some sort of special chakra whatsoever, since their medical skills are brilliant, it seems as if their body is really something amazing (meaning they did inherit the Sage's body).

Their bodies are very durable and their medical skills are exceptional. This has been witnessed in Tsunade (during the battle with Madara) and in some flashbacks in Hashirama.

//

Regarding the inheritance of Rikudo and how his both sons might have inherited the Juubi's chakra and not Rikudo's, I have made a thread that might relate. It is about Juubi's creation, how it might've been created by Rikudo himself (possibly using his own DNA) and having it created for other reasons and ironically it happened that the Juubi did the opposite of what it was supposed to do.

So, if the Juubi has Rikudo's DNA and Rikudo's sons have his DNA as well, it might be that the physical traits they inherited were possibly similar to the Juubi thus making your theory true.

(here is the thread : Juubi's Creation ; it lacks a lot of details, I was waiting to have a discussion with you, kalmeast and other great debaters but unfortunately I had no attention to the thread by any of you thus making it a scrapped idea)

//

Also, it is interesting how the Senju were actually gifted with the Sage's body, yet we haven't witnessed a Senju jinchuriki yet but we have witnessed several Uzumaki jinchuriki.

I'm thinking that both the Uzumaki and Senju have the Sage's body and his power, but those powers were split, maybe the body power (perhaps its spiritual durability since they are able to manipulate chakra in order to heal themselves) went to the Senju and the body (physical durability) went to the Uzumaki.
Its not that I completely discount the Senju, but lets face it, their abilities and KG are great! but we have seen quite a few people through the series with impressive KG's! Only Hashirama was actually ever able to use the KG as far as we know (probably more, but it was never noted). Tobirama states that the Uchiha have a special chakra that is unfamilar to them, and we know that the Uzumaki were chosen for their special chakra when it came to being Jinchuriki. Perhaps its speculation in the wrong direction, but something ties the Uzumaki and Uchiha closer than the Senju and Uzumaki. There are missing facts some where, and the fact that the Senju are all but gone, leaving Tsunade! Lets also consider that Sakura (her student) has been doing pretty much the same thing Tsunade has, with some exceptions (like manipulating appearance etc..).
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

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Originally Posted by Kyūbi no Yōko View Post
Also, it is interesting how the Senju were actually gifted with the Sage's body, yet we haven't witnessed a Senju jinchuriki yet but we have witnessed several Uzumaki jinchuriki.
It seems the senju feats favor the external aspect of the body. Strength, durability, healing.

maybe stamina, but that's assumed.

The Uzumaki feats favor the body too, but the internal body. Stamina, generating chakra, life force. Body wise, Nagato and Naruto are not that impressive for taijutsu, (no power-ups).

Uzumaki dominate in the areas of internal strain. The senju dominate external strain. That is why Uzumaki's make the best jinchurike.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:34 AM   #16
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

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It seems the senju feats favor the external aspect of the body. Strength, durability, healing.

maybe stamina, but that's assumed.

The Uzumaki feats favor the body too, but the internal body. Stamina, generating chakra, life force. Body wise, Nagato and Naruto are not that impressive for taijutsu, (no power-ups).

Uzumaki dominate in the areas of internal strain. The senju dominate external strain. That is why Uzumaki's make the best jinchurike.
What makes Hashirama special from the other Senju? Maybe its because his wife is an Uzumaki.. If we go by deductions.. Its only Hashirama have had this special relationship with a member of the Uzumaki clan.. Maybe Mito did something to Hashirama. Mito was able to fill the hole of being jinchuriki because of Hashirama's love but what Mito did to Hashirama in return? If we look at Minato.. He said he became hokage because of Kushina. I am speculation Mito might be the key why Hashirama is special among the Senju.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

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Originally Posted by SilentBlade View Post
Its not that I completely discount the Senju, but lets face it, their abilities and KG are great! but we have seen quite a few people through the series with impressive KG's! Only Hashirama was actually ever able to use the KG as far as we know (probably more, but it was never noted). Tobirama states that the Uchiha have a special chakra that is unfamilar to them, and we know that the Uzumaki were chosen for their special chakra when it came to being Jinchuriki. Perhaps its speculation in the wrong direction, but something ties the Uzumaki and Uchiha closer than the Senju and Uzumaki. There are missing facts some where, and the fact that the Senju are all but gone, leaving Tsunade! Lets also consider that Sakura (her student) has been doing pretty much the same thing Tsunade has, with some exceptions (like manipulating appearance etc..).

We need more facts to come to a conclusion otherwise all we make are just speculations and it's hard to come to deductions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm1977 View Post
It seems the senju feats favor the external aspect of the body. Strength, durability, healing.

maybe stamina, but that's assumed.

The Uzumaki feats favor the body too, but the internal body. Stamina, generating chakra, life force. Body wise, Nagato and Naruto are not that impressive for taijutsu, (no power-ups).

Uzumaki dominate in the areas of internal strain. The senju dominate external strain. That is why Uzumaki's make the best jinchurike.
Yes I said that too in the post.

_____________________________________________

@Rikudo:

Hashirama acquired Mito's DNA. That's the only reasonable thing to cause a power-up in this case and it's what usually happens in Naruto so yeah.

I don't believe in stuff like : she did magic whatsoever to him ; mixing Mito's blood with his is probably what caused Hashirama to be so powerful.

I was thinking :

Senju DNA + Uzumaki DNA = the real DNA of the Senju Ancestor --- > which in turn made Hashirama really powerful.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

Uchiha power up is much easier.
Be an emo and voila.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

Well, technically yeah. :P
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: A prospective look at the Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki

Hey, I can act like an EMO.

Can I be a godbuster too?
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