Sasuke v.s. Gaara: Who would win?

[PrinceofPeace]

Saskue has not shown the ability to use Izangami or the other one

[Maruko]

Well, he can use it.
Madara wasn't shown using Ningendo, but he can use it.

I mean, if Itachi did all of a sudden, why can't his bor?
He just needs the will to act xD

[PrinceofPeace]

whats Ningendo
Saskue was not taught the jutsu. We have not seem him use it or how well he can use it

[Maruko]

It's the human path granted by Rinnegan, then one when he removes the soul.
Well, how can you teach someone Izanami? You make him use it and go blind in one eye?

[JLI2infinity]

Sasuke's base genjutsu isn't doujutsu. Deidara got caught in it from like 200 meters in the air. On top of that Shee didn't even know where Sasuke was and the next thing he knew he was on his knees struggling to breathe. Bee didn't make noticeable eye contact and was also caught in it.

I don't see how Gaara is gonna survive the entire fight if Sasuke takes to the air on his hawk and starts to fire off Susano'o arrows. Kabuto only managed to react to them with enhanced speed and precog. You can say Gaara's sand is a type of precog but it has a speed threshold that we haven't seen from Sage Mode. All Sasuke has to do is cleverly maneuver around the sky firing off arrows until he creates an opening for genjutsu. Deidara managed to do the same thing with his techniques and he got outsmarted by Sasuke. I also dont see Gaara defending against an Amaterasu sword for very long. If he just makes one mistake, gets caught by one substitution or blown away by one arrow that sword crushes through his guard and ends it.

Anyways the main point of my argument here is that Sasuke has mastered genjutsu that isnt reliant on eye contact which basically gives him the edge here.

[Maruko]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

Sasuke's base genjutsu isn't doujutsu. Deidara got caught in it from like 200 meters in the air. On top of that Shee didn't even know where Sasuke was and the next thing he knew he was on his knees struggling to breathe. Bee didn't make noticeable eye contact and was also caught in it.

I don't see how Gaara is gonna survive the entire fight if Sasuke takes to the air on his hawk and starts to fire off Susano'o arrows. Kabuto only managed to react to them with enhanced speed and precog. You can say Gaara's sand is a type of precog but it has a speed threshold that we haven't seen from Sage Mode. All Sasuke has to do is cleverly maneuver around the sky firing off arrows until he creates an opening for genjutsu. Deidara managed to do the same thing with his techniques and he got outsmarted by Sasuke. I also dont see Gaara defending against an Amaterasu sword for very long. If he just makes one mistake, gets caught by one substitution or blown away by one arrow that sword crushes through his guard and ends it.

Anyways the main point of my argument here is that Sasuke has mastered genjutsu that isnt reliant on eye contact which basically gives him the edge here.

^This.
One eye contact and Gaara is down.
Only if he is able to fight without eye contact he has a chance.

[armaan]

Originally Posted by InnerSakura

Also dont overestimate Sasuke and underestimate Gaara. He is kazekage for a reason. Gaara has went through countless battles without Shukaku's help. He didnt use Shukaku's chakra during his battle with Kimimaro. Yet he still had enough of his own chakra to feed his sand into the ground and create more sand. If Gaara was actually fighting on sandy ground, he would have an even greater chance at beating Sasuke. Sasuke's chakra levels arent extraordinary either. And as demonstrated by Itachi, using Susano'o and the mangekyo sharingan takes up a whole lot of chakra. And if Sasuke's Susano'o became a problem for Gaara, all Gaara would have to do is pull Sasuke out of it. The only real advantage Sasuke would have over Gaara is Sasuke's ability to cast genjutsu on Gaara. But as I said before, Gaara is kazekage. He knows all of Sasuke's abilities. He would not be caught in Sasuke's genjutsu that easily. And if he still had Shukaku, although he doesnt, Shukaku would be able to break Gaara out of the genjutsu. Like Gyuki did for Bee. But since Gaara doesnt have Shukaku anymore, I'm sure he would be very cautious the entire battle not to let Sasuke make eye contact. And even Bee could not block amaterasu. But Gaara can. That makes him awesome enough to beat Sasuke right there.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Try telling that to Madara. You know that Garra pulled Madara out of susanoo wth his sand right?

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Try telling that to Madara. You know that Garra pulled Madara out of susanoo wth his sand right?

spoiler spoiler spoiler if that the case garra might win but sasuke can also use kirin

and this might also be the reason why saskey win

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

Sasuke's base genjutsu isn't doujutsu. Deidara got caught in it from like 200 meters in the air. On top of that Shee didn't even know where Sasuke was and the next thing he knew he was on his knees struggling to breathe. Bee didn't make noticeable eye contact and was also caught in it.

I don't see how Gaara is gonna survive the entire fight if Sasuke takes to the air on his hawk and starts to fire off Susano'o arrows. Kabuto only managed to react to them with enhanced speed and precog. You can say Gaara's sand is a type of precog but it has a speed threshold that we haven't seen from Sage Mode. All Sasuke has to do is cleverly maneuver around the sky firing off arrows until he creates an opening for genjutsu. Deidara managed to do the same thing with his techniques and he got outsmarted by Sasuke. I also dont see Gaara defending against an Amaterasu sword for very long. If he just makes one mistake, gets caught by one substitution or blown away by one arrow that sword crushes through his guard and ends it.

Anyways the main point of my argument here is that Sasuke has mastered genjutsu that isnt reliant on eye contact which basically gives him the edge here.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

Sasuke's base genjutsu isn't doujutsu. Deidara got caught in it from like 200 meters in the air. On top of that Shee didn't even know where Sasuke was and the next thing he knew he was on his knees struggling to breathe. Bee didn't make noticeable eye contact and was also caught in it.

I don't see how Gaara is gonna survive the entire fight if Sasuke takes to the air on his hawk and starts to fire off Susano'o arrows. Kabuto only managed to react to them with enhanced speed and precog. You can say Gaara's sand is a type of precog but it has a speed threshold that we haven't seen from Sage Mode. All Sasuke has to do is cleverly maneuver around the sky firing off arrows until he creates an opening for genjutsu. Deidara managed to do the same thing with his techniques and he got outsmarted by Sasuke. I also dont see Gaara defending against an Amaterasu sword for very long. If he just makes one mistake, gets caught by one substitution or blown away by one arrow that sword crushes through his guard and ends it.

Anyways the main point of my argument here is that Sasuke has mastered genjutsu that isnt reliant on eye contact which basically gives him the edge here.

The problem is i cant remember one instance of sasuke using genjutsu without having his sharingan on.

Ok so sharingan is almost his standard battle 'gear' fair enough.

But when he went blind he also didnt use any genjtusu on any of team 7.

Ok he was out of chakra/tired fighting danzo sure but he still had enough for atleast 2 chidoris a genjutsu shouldm easily fit in there and wouldve made thing alot easier for sasuke especially vs naruto.

Ok he was blind he didnt know where he was so he couldnt put him under genjutsu, But still he was able to locate and battle all three members of team 7.

That combined with the fact that sasuke isnt nearly as skilled with genjutsu as itachi is and that sharingan is known for its dangerous genjutsu make the more obvious answer that they are sharingan genjutsu.

Besides that they never gave a range for sharingan genjutsu or genjutsu in general it wouldnt suprise me if the reality bending eyes would have a large reach.

I also fail to see where a normal amaterasu sword would succeed where amaterasu failed.

Gaara had an entire village to protect at the time he fought deidara in addition to battling an unknown enemy with unknown abilities to him. Gaara and sasuke atleast have an general idea of each others powers.

[Junami]

Sasuke easily wins, if this whole thing is based on Gaara's sand. Then Sasuke could simply fire style into the air forming clouds making it rain on the sand, therefore turning it into mud and making it a lot slower. After that, Sasuke's speed (Which has increased since he made his first appearance in Shippuden) is all he needs, the sand's speed would drastically spiral down. Therefore, Sasuke could merely get in Gaara's face, now that the sand couldn't catch a fly, and catch him in a Genjutsu.
Making the winner, Sasuke with two moves. (Three if you count getting in Gaara's face.)

[ino>sakura!]

Originally Posted by Junami

Sasuke easily wins, if this whole thing is based on Gaara's sand. Then Sasuke could simply fire style into the air forming clouds making it rain on the sand, therefore turning it into mud and making it a lot slower. After that, Sasuke's speed (Which has increased since he made his first appearance in Shippuden) is all he needs, the sand's speed would drastically spiral down. Therefore, Sasuke could merely get in Gaara's face, now that the sand couldn't catch a fly, and catch him in a Genjutsu.
Making the winner, Sasuke with two moves. (Three if you count getting in Gaara's face.)

I think your forgetting he can make more sand but I think sasuke wins it gaara has a fair chance though

[Junami]

Originally Posted by ino>sakura!

I think your forgetting he can make more sand but I think sasuke wins it gaara has a fair chance though

More sand out of the wet floor (including minerals in the ground)? It would turn into mud instantly, that and the rain cloud has only shown that it only stops after Sasuke does Kirin, it has not shown limit in time.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Ok, I told myself that I wouldn't get involved in this, due to my bias towards Gaara, but I'll try to just be fair and counter your points through on-panel evidence. P.S. Great arguments in the Bee vs. Pain thread.

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

Sasuke's base genjutsu isn't doujutsu. Deidara got caught in it from like 200 meters in the air. On top of that Shee didn't even know where Sasuke was and the next thing he knew he was on his knees struggling to breathe. Bee didn't make noticeable eye contact and was also caught in it.

Sasuke clearly used sharingan/eye contact in all of these examples.
-Sharingan are drawn in the panel Deidara is put under genjutsu (even though Deidara really saw through it the entire time and just tricked Sasuke into getting caught).
-When C is caught there is a panel with Sasuke's silhouette w/ sharingan activated right in front of C, and then another panel with a close up on one sharingan.
-When B is caught he is shown moving straight towards Sasuke and then there is a panel with just Sasuke's right MS and then a panel with just B's left eye (covered by his sunglasses of course ).

So yeah, there is actually 0 room for doubt that Sasuke needs sharingan to use genjutsu. Not like Genjutsu GG is actually a viable strategy against a Kage level opponent who knows your abilities anyway.

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

I don't see how Gaara is gonna survive the entire fight if Sasuke takes to the air on his hawk and starts to fire off Susano'o arrows. Kabuto only managed to react to them with enhanced speed and precog. You can say Gaara's sand is a type of precog but it has a speed threshold that we haven't seen from Sage Mode. All Sasuke has to do is cleverly maneuver around the sky firing off arrows until he creates an opening for genjutsu. Deidara managed to do the same thing with his techniques and he got outsmarted by Sasuke. I also dont see Gaara defending against an Amaterasu sword for very long. If he just makes one mistake, gets caught by one substitution or blown away by one arrow that sword crushes through his guard and ends it.

Gaara's sand can block Amaterasu, which is nigh instantaneous. So yeah, I think it will do just fine against arrows. Sasuke's hawk has absolutely no precedent for being fast and Gaara really didn't take that long to catch Deidara either-I think people vastly overestimate how long that fight lasted since the Anime really drags it out. Gaara's loss there was also a product of PnJ as he was fated to lose to advance the plot-you can't tell me that Gaara couldn't have easily just snapped Deidara's neck instead of his arm and that Deidara just conveniently had his bomb spiders prepared and placed them in the sand after he was caught by surprise. And even if you think that was all kosher, Deidara still had to resort to attacking the village to get at Gaara and in a 1v1 against Sasuke, Gaara won't have to worry about protecting anyone else.

As for Ammy sword getting through Gaara's defense-Why would you think it could do that? It's essentially featless, and until we get some powered-up panels we rely on past precedence in which Gaara effortlessly stopped Sasuke's Enton.

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

Anyways the main point of my argument here is that Sasuke has mastered genjutsu that isnt reliant on eye contact which basically gives him the edge here.

Yeah...about that...see above.

@Junami: Gaara's sand is unaffected by water (well, at any rate it doesn't turn to mud and he can still manipulate it). Before arguing with me read Chapter 588.

[Uchiha Sora]

Sasuke's genjutsu he used on Cee didn't need eye contact. Cee wasn't looking at Sasuke when he was caught. He was looking into the dust caused by Jugo and A. And Sasuke was up on a ledge somewhere.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by Uchiha Sora

Sasuke's genjutsu he used on Cee didn't need eye contact. Cee wasn't looking at Sasuke when he was caught. He was looking into the dust caused by Jugo and A. And Sasuke was up on a ledge somewhere.

??

I don't know how Kishimoto can make it more obvious that it was a sharingan genjutsu than how he did. He shows Sasuke's silhouette with sharingan activated and then does a close up panel on just the sharingan to show that he used the sharingan for the genjutsu. When he's under the genjutsu, C says something like, "He used his buddy's attack as a distraction" -C knew not to look into his eyes, but Sasuke was hiding behind the flashbang/dust and as it was clearing he established eye-contact. After C falls down from the genjutsu we get panels of Sasuke again looking down with Sharingan activated. All sharingan genjutsu that we've seen requires eye-contact as well, which makes sense since the genjutsu is coming from their eyes. Hence why the Super Uchiha Bros. couldn't do anything to Kabuto after he blocked his vision.

[PrinceofPeace]

Isn't it basic knowledge for Garra not to look into saskue's eyes? Saskue can summon a sand dome and go into the sky to dodge attacks with ease

Chp462 pg5
Eye contAct of genjutsu

[ko lee]

Originally Posted by Maruko

Well, he can use it.
Madara wasn't shown using Ningendo, but he can use it.

I mean, if Itachi did all of a sudden, why can't his bor?
He just needs the will to act xD

I don't plan to get into this fight, I will say Gaara has shown feats that far surpass anything Sasuke has shown. But I just wanted to clear up Izanagi and Izanami.
-Izanagi:I just want to say Sasuke does not have the Senju cells to cast Izanagi, go re-read the Danzo,Sasuke fight you need both to use Izanagi. Only People shown to use this technique are Danzo, Tobito, Both have both have sharingan and Senju cells. Plus let it be noted it also comes with a sacrifice of a sharingan eye.
-Izanami: is a technique that is only Itachi has been shown to know you can't just say because he is an Uchiha, he gets to use everything any, and every techinique a sharingan user has cast. Only Itachi has been shown to know how to use this technique only after deep research re-read the Uchiha brothers vs Kabuto fight,
Know your stuff never assume please Thank you.

[Shisko Shi]

What is Sasuke going to do? Sassuno? Umm yea he is still atatckble on the bottem. Boom baby Sasuke still sucks monkey butt!

[InnerSakura]

It doesnt matter if Sasuke has the ability to trap Gaara in genjutsu. If this is an argument about Sasuke making eye contact, well has everyone forgotten that Gaara could just encase himself completely in sand, and use the third eye to see? That way he wouldnt have to look at Sasuke at all.

In other words...Sasuke would get chumped by Gaara.

[PrinceofPeace]

The speed and power of Garra's sand can tank anything Saskue thows out

[JLI2infinity]

@GodaimeKazekage

When I said it wasn't doujutsu that was a poor choice of words. What I meant to say is that it's doujutsu that's not reliant on eye contact. Sure Sasuke's genjutsu are sharingan based but people don't have to look into his eyes to fall prey to them.

Shee did NOT look Sasuke in the eyes. Yes he was caught under the genjutsu and there he saw the sharingan but prior to that he wasn't even looking in Sasuke's direction. By the time we saw that silhouette he was already under the technique. Meaning Sasuke was able to activate it without Shee looking at him. The drawing of the sharingan is just Kishi's way of demonstrating that the sharingan genjutsu is taking effect. TBH Kishi is really bad when it comes to sharingan related things if we look at his history.

-There are inconsistencies with Sasuke's tomoes early in the series and then with the flashback in shippuden
-He had an unclear explanation about how Shisui's genjutsu worked and which eye was able to use it. He didn't clear that up until several chapters after Itachi broke ET
-Even recently we see that he can't even remember the design for Sasuke's EMS, since he has been drawing MS this entire time, without Itachi's tomoe design.

This isn't directly relevant to the debate but it goes to show Kishi's eye for detail sometimes. Same thing goes for Deidara. He was way out of the range where he could make eye contact. Bee is the only one I might budge on seeing as we can't really prove he didn't make eye contact when he was charging in to perform the Lariat.

As for the speed related debate. That Susano'o arrow from long range arrived faster than Kakashi could even move, and Kakashi's a pretty impressive speedster in the Narutoverse. Kishi also kinda put to rest the whole, Gaara's sand is fast enough to keep up with A thing in the Second Mizukage fight, where Gaara had to set up a sand clone because Jouki Boy was fast enough to get past his guard.

Finally, the Amaterasu sword looked larger and more powerful than the three swords of the Madara clones's Susano'o's that knocked Gaara down but he was distracted trying to save the Mizukage so I guess I can let that one slide.