BG Convo #70: Everyone Loves Pies

[Sagepain]

The photographer fainted

[mirai colorles]

talky tkaltykl tlkaty tkalya blabh balhb blabha

hsya

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by Devroux

For the sake of this discussion, I'm going to lump all of the pre- ex-Smods and staff reorganization under "TBC's Days."

You'd be hard pressed to find someone that didn't believe that the staff has had a strong history of favoritism and bullying of regular users back in TBC's Days. Most people that were a part of CBox before the entire staff was added were viewed as the "popular people", which is just another way of viewing them as bullies. Shika's user notes are an example of what they did and I'm not fighting against the fact that that history happened. There's even a post by Rice (I believe it's in KT's "You are not a neutral admin" thread) that even says favoritism happens.

However, these days, the staff has reorganized and the true bullies have left the site. People now are better than people then. Although a few people left on the leader boards are arguable against it, most of the staff has earned their position. Being friends with a Quasi doesn't mean I'm a kiss ass just because I got promoted. I'm damn sure my forum resume is more filled out than most on the site.

People now have earned their seats and treat all users with a little more respect than the staff members we used to have. Lumping us all in together even now is sticking to the old ways and is a close minded, uninformed viewpoint.

Yes, it's unavoidable, but don't lump all the staff together under one roof just because you've had a bad day.

calling it the TBC days implies that was entirely his fault, TBC and Wooster were against that as much as most of us were but given access to the places they had it had to go about it differently than Cop and I did- but I suppose given his "rise" and "fall" encompassed some of the worse eras of this site I guess you could label it thus.

things are in place now that regulate that but its not like all of the old guard are gone nor are the methodology (the awards, Luna's motm and the like) simply put we aren't in the golden age yet.

But the general point you were bringing up is true.. one needs to look overall not all of the staff are the same. you aren't and i'll be damned if I'll let someone lump the mongooses into that.

Originally Posted by Devroux

It may have been a mistake to pin you to that claim personally, but I know for fact that other mods of the section have used that argument before. It's something I can't ever agree with, for as many fights that break out among this place, you're all still pinned to the same Naruto Discussion Forum as every other section on the site, so you should abide by the same rules.

Sometimes I see a lot of opinions and yes, it can be annoying, but for the most part, I know that most of the debaters here use hard facts. But it's always interesting to see someone attempting to counter-debate just for debate's sake.

well it's relative is the BG a special case compared to the debate section? Yeah sure,. over there it's more opinion based someone who thinks Bush is a war criminal and Obama is a Muslim is gonna spew that out..and when challenged it will be by people with different views using what they know to back their beliefs up...the other guys not gonna change his mind (honestly if you believe that nonsense you probably aren't capable of changing your mind )

the difference between there and here though is if someone says "I think Obama is a Muslim" or "Bush is a war criminal" he needs to absolutely prove his claims..if he can't support his views he loses the right to have that view in public but that goes for anyone entering the BG's

actually come to think of it the debate section seems to function the same way maybe the bookstore was a better analogy..you can claim Kishimoto is the greatest writer ever...people will disagree but you can't be in violation of any rule for continuing to voice that view

here you can as long as you are debating it as a matter of fact

as "our debaters need to be treated differently" given special treatments and all that? any debater worth the air he or she breaths doesn't need any special treatment to hold his own..and do so without degenerating into a bully

I hold my people to such a high standard that I'd be very disappointed in them if they wanted a handicap to let them act like pretentious twits.

in fact I'd be so disappointed that I'd set aside my mod powers temporarily and then personally take on the entire BG's and beat sense into their skulls for even daring to ask such a thing

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

Sajuuk got demoted because him and the rest of the staff weren't getting along too well, in short. It wasn't anyone's fault in particular.

I wanna say this..Sajuuk and I clashed something nasty over how he was defending Eagles and KD over in a convo thread.. he was a little rough with Zoro and Sage for being pissed at Scyther

then you guys outed Eagles as a pedo and he immediately changed his tune

it takes a lot of conviction and personal integrity to own up in public the way he did when he had messed up so bad prior.

For that he's got my respect also he did a lot for the BG's guys..so do him a solid and don't go rumor mongering about him aight? let people talk but remember that

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

Also, I'm Lebanese.
My grandmother on my mom's side makes amazing spinach pies. Mmmm.

you guys practice Islam? Or are ya coptic Christians or Jews? Or nothing lol

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

As for the rest of this thread. I don't mind if you people want to voice your opinions in here, and I certainly won't silence you, since it's generally our way to accept people for how they are and call a spade a spade.

I'll also add I wont stop you or let any mongoose stop you from criticizing the staff, whether its us..or the forum at large

but you guys have to have legitimate grievances and it needs to be professional and you have to expect them to be answered by whoever you are calling you

calling a spade a spade goes both ways.

I wont stop you from having opinions and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let yall baww or be bawwed about without any recourse.

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

What I don't want is for people to come here who generally don't even view the other parts of the BG to come in here just to tell the staff off, which is what I feel is what these convos are becoming, slowly...slowly...slowly. Let's not become a grounds for you guys to bitch about the staff.

I don't want this place to degenerate to a bunch of bickering.

There's this too, you have every right to complain but constructive..contribute or shut up

Originally Posted by Devroux

I remember seeing the Burrow once and one day, I will see it again. My sight yearns to view all corners of this forum and my conquest shan't be achieved until I'm able to express my opinion and aid all sections of the forum to the best of my ability.

I WILL BE A BG'ER!

you want to be a BG'er? Debate..own some trolls

join us as a battle brother!!!

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

If only you could see the Burrow. IWD has had some page long walls of text. xD

There was the one I did four or five months ago.. with that Messiah guy...

and prior to that I think I launched a truly massive one in the mod section and before that when Scyther claimed he could have me heeled at his feet and begging for mercy

Originally Posted by SRhyse

You'd probably think our PMs back and forth together are porn then .

it's nice to be able to make a historical or political analogy out of the blue.. or be incredibly sarcastic and have it understood

Originally Posted by Devroux

I can do anything you can do better.~

so which one of you is the blondie

[Shikamaru Nara]

Only my mom's side is Lebanese. But we don't really practice any religions.
She was raised Catholic.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

Only my mom's side is Lebanese. But we don't really practice any religions.
She was raised Catholic.

There are Christian Lebanese people.

[WishfulFairie]

OMG!
Shika my Lebanese neighbor is Catholic too!!!
*fades away*

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by Wooster

There are Christian Lebanese people.

always wonder why people find this so shocking

its like when you bring up the oldest branches of Christianity and the Jewish faith are tribes in Ethiopia and China (or is it Chinese have "the oldest verifiable branch of Islam?)

[Wooster]

That and the fact that Lebanon is almost right on top of the holy land... News shock people, 10% of Egyptians are Christians.

Pretty sure Islam would be Chinese, there are lots of Muslims in Indo-china

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by Wooster

That and the fact that Lebanon is almost right on top of the holy land... News shock people, 10% of Egyptians are Christians.

The Egyptians Coptic Church has its own pope too and the only one not recognized by Rome as an anti pope

Originally Posted by Wooster

Pretty sure Islam would be Chinese, there are lots of Muslims in Indo-china

Jews too

I think during the Boxer rebellion the Chinese Empress was protecting by redneck Chinese Muslims

[Wooster]

Is close to where the Uighurs live.

[Devroux]

Originally Posted by The Immortal Watch Dog

calling it the TBC days implies that was entirely his fault, TBC and Wooster were against that as much as most of us were but given access to the places they had it had to go about it differently than Cop and I did- but I suppose given his "rise" and "fall" encompassed some of the worse eras of this site I guess you could label it thus.

things are in place now that regulate that but its not like all of the old guard are gone nor are the methodology (the awards, Luna's motm and the like) simply put we aren't in the golden age yet.

But the general point you were bringing up is true.. one needs to look overall not all of the staff are the same. you aren't and i'll be damned if I'll let someone lump the mongooses into that.

[COLOR=black][I]

That's pretty much what I meant. Just that it encompasses the bad, rather than that he was the cause of it. Honestly, half the time I didn't even see the guy, so I couldn't say it if I wanted to.

Nothing is in place that regulates the staff other than the staff themselves holding themselves to a higher standard than those before us. Everyone likes to pick on MotM for being bias or wrong, but people that say that are misinformed or just angry that they no longer have a seat on the council. People may not believe that the winners of the past few months deserved it, but the council does and the council gave their opinions on the people that were voted on. Yes, I would know, I'm in charge.

No, I'm not trying to say that we're in the golden age. That won't be said anytime soon, if ever. But it doesn't mean that we aren't in a better position and some people are just negative and misinformed about the situations they no longer have control over. It's not my place to stop people from complaining, but the least they can do is try to know what they're talking about a little more.

well it's relative is the BG a special case compared to the debate section? Yeah sure,. over there it's more opinion based someone who thinks Bush is a war criminal and Obama is a Muslim is gonna spew that out..and when challenged it will be by people with different views using what they know to back their beliefs up...the other guys not gonna change his mind (honestly if you believe that nonsense you probably aren't capable of changing your mind )

the difference between there and here though is if someone says "I think Obama is a Muslim" or "Bush is a war criminal" he needs to absolutely prove his claims..if he can't support his views he loses the right to have that view in public but that goes for anyone entering the BG's

actually come to think of it the debate section seems to function the same way maybe the bookstore was a better analogy..you can claim Kishimoto is the greatest writer ever...people will disagree but you can't be in violation of any rule for continuing to voice that view

here you can as long as you are debating it as a matter of fact

as "our debaters need to be treated differently" given special treatments and all that? any debater worth the air he or she breaths doesn't need any special treatment to hold his own..and do so without degenerating into a bully

I hold my people to such a high standard that I'd be very disappointed in them if they wanted a handicap to let them act like pretentious twits.

in fact I'd be so disappointed that I'd set aside my mod powers temporarily and then personally take on the entire BG's and beat sense into their skulls for even daring to ask such a thing

I agree. The difference between this section and the other debate section is that this is based off of actual anime/manga feats that took place. The rules set on that is what bars opinions, or attempts to. The debate section is for opinions.

However, that's not what I was really trying to grasp at. It's more seen in the staff section, or used to, that some of the mods were trying to say that the BGs were a special case and that mods got to be assholes just because they were BG mods. I disagree with that completely.

I know for a fact that when acting my part as staff, I am unbias. When it comes to the way people have been treated, I won't give mods that extra grace just because they're staff. I haven't abused my powers before, so if I see it fit to warn a mod based on their actions, then I'm pretty damn sure it's deserving.

For instance, that Eagle shat you know I was so very against won't fly. As much as it was deserving, those actions were unbecoming of staff and are a prime example of why we haven't reached that golden age. I'm sorry, but that's just my thoughts. I won't let it happen again.

you want to be a BG'er? Debate..own some trolls

join us as a battle brother!!!

I appreciate the BG more when it comes to One Piece. I don't know enough about anything else to really debate, which is why I don't express my opinion in most other threads. I don't care about Naruto enough to try, even though I keep up with the manga too.

But rest assured, if Whitebeard is mentioned, I'll make my appearance!

[Noctis Arashi]

Inb4 Whitebeard vs Whitebeard thread.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by Noctis Arashi

Inb4 Whitebeard vs Whitebeard thread.

How does that even.....

[setsun]

Are you sure you want to know? Cuz I'm pretty sure it involves lotion and lots of tissues

[Roronoa Zoro]

Why is it that every time IWD greets me, im not online and vice versa =/

[setsun]

Bilderburg........................................ ....... that's how

[Devroux]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

How does that even.....

Prime Whitebeard vs. Old Whitebeard.
*nods*

[Roronoa Zoro]

I made a thread. Tell me if its ok

http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125658

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by Devroux

That's pretty much what I meant. Just that it encompasses the bad, rather than that he was the cause of it. Honestly, half the time I didn't even see the guy, so I couldn't say it if I wanted to.

Nothing is in place that regulates the staff other than the staff themselves holding themselves to a higher standard than those before us. Everyone likes to pick on MotM for being bias or wrong, but people that say that are misinformed or just angry that they no longer have a seat on the council. People may not believe that the winners of the past few months deserved it, but the council does and the council gave their opinions on the people that were voted on. Yes, I would know, I'm in charge.

my only issue with that is..MOTM smells like roses until you guys had that Luna fiasco..it smelled like someone was doing a favor for Toma's buddy and the way Toma defended her (and to be fair I probably would have reacted the same way) confirmed that and when I say confirm that I mean regardless of how legit you guys are Viz took one look at that and the users were all "oh dangit! Yall see dem suckas rigg'n!!"

member perception takes precedent over what we do behind the scenes..it's a reality of any type of politics even insignificant online e politicking

I'm not justifying it but we need to be aware of it and understand it- for my part why I'm so friendly with the Bg'ers (apart from the fact that they all earned my respect) is because if something goes down the chances of rumor mongering erasing what actually is.

Nobody can accuse you of abuse when your people know how you operate.

I'm sure my way has its flaws though but I will say for my part it seems like we've had less drama for it

Originally Posted by Devroux

No, I'm not trying to say that we're in the golden age. That won't be said anytime soon, if ever. But it doesn't mean that we aren't in a better position and some people are just negative and misinformed about the situations they no longer have control over. It's not my place to stop people from complaining, but the least they can do is try to know what they're talking about a little more.

we wont be in the golden age ever- being in the golden age requires that we as a forum compete with the major sites out there, sites like CBR, or NF, or Gamefaqs or hell even Movie codec AV and CV

all of these forums have hundreds of thousands of members a far less PG atmosphere zero censorship on profanity..and a very pro internet piracy stance (well no CBR and GF seem to lack this) the average user on those major forums also tends to be kind of "an " by the average Viz debaters standards

so there maybe a conscience decision to never reach those levels

incidentally I think spacebattles and Stardestroyer.net just turned 20 - how those two forums survived this long is beyond

especially SdN where flaming is okay as long as you have a valid point..and repporting "legal" flaming gets you temp banned and a user title with the words "cry baby" in it

those sites are relics..of a crazier age I guess

Originally Posted by Devroux

I agree. The difference between this section and the other debate section is that this is based off of actual anime/manga feats that took place. The rules set on that is what bars opinions, or attempts to. The debate section is for opinions.

can I ask you a question? What's the debate section like now? I remember it being almost as hostile as the BG's about a year or two back then it sorta just relaxed

I guess its because Gamabunta was the sec mod and CoP was a regular there and both had..rather, ermm charming personalities is the polite word for it?

Originally Posted by Devroux

However, that's not what I was really trying to grasp at. It's more seen in the staff section, or used to, that some of the mods were trying to say that the BGs were a special case and that mods got to be assholes just because they were BG mods. I disagree with that completely.

Originally Posted by Devroux

that was directed more towards TBC and myself as Shika and US are usually the good cops. For TBC it's likely because he was a veteran debater from the larger forums and was primarily a dbz debater..the bigger sites are incredibly hostile whether its profane flaming like MVC does, or creative insults like NF and SB does, or just blanket very brutal non insulting attacking the way they do it on the comic book sites..it's also very intense in the DBZ fandom where they tend to be abnormally hostyile

TBC likely held those ways close to home and debated in a very watered down but still aggressive form.

it's not uncommon for a moderator especially a high ranking one or a veteran one to be incredibly verbally abusive towards forum trolls or fanboys..in the larger forums I recall on one site I was on our boss Watcher had an official seal of fail "You are now, hence forth and forever wrong on all assertions you have made in this thread, further more you lack the mental ability to make coherent and objective views on this topic, there fore you are forever banned from debating your favorite series failure to adhere to my ban will result in my deleting your account and permanently IP banning you" or something

and yeah I was on the receiving end more than a few of those speeches when I was a newb, they pissed me off as much as I imagine PoP may get some times.

it made sense in that context for TBC to do that, ask any poster who debates here but regs on a site like NF or SB about how if you are caught out of line you're going to get ripped apart and if not by the staff by the memberbase while the staff temporarily allows some slack- it's a tough love policy

a lot of the early BG staffers, myself and Shika as well came from that type of environment TBC and a lot of his people and us as well have tried to adopt a watered down less abusive version of this

for my part I've always as a member and a moderator tried to channel my wrath so to speak to people who deserve it- to stay within the confines of the rules of this site- and I think that's my speeches are seen as something of a crowning moment of awesome as opposed to mindless flaming

I'm not defending it I know that none of us have carte blanch on anything and thus special treatment is idiotic- I do things a certain way that's different but I' make damn sure to stay within the rules otherwise you're no better than the dregs you police basically.


[

Originally Posted by Devroux

I know for a fact that when acting my part as staff, I am unbias. When it comes to the way people have been treated, I won't give mods that extra grace just because they're staff. I haven't abused my powers before, so if I see it fit to warn a mod based on their actions, then I'm pretty damn sure it's deserving.

I've never seen you mod before but from what I have seen of you just interacting with you I doubt that's an inaccurate character assessment

Originally Posted by Devroux

For instance, that Eagle shat you know I was so very against won't fly. As much as it was deserving, those actions were unbecoming of staff and are a prime example of why we haven't reached that golden age. I'm sorry, but that's just my thoughts. I won't let it happen again.

This is the only place where we're going to disagree I wasn't being a douche to Eagles because I enjoyed screwing with him I was being that way because he's a pedophile

a person like that should be abused, mistreated and bullied every second of his life should be made a living hell online and in real life

I consider it a civic obligation and a moral duty to do that, and if I was his neighbor I'd make his personal life impossible I'd out him to the community and turn the entire neighborhood into one frenzied lynch mob against him because he is a dangerous, unstable and depraved predator and he doesn't belong in any community.

I'm also an adult in charge of minors in the sense that as a mod I've got to think of the safety of the debaters I have that are underage- I think in that case I'm obligated to do everything in my power to keep him as far away from kids as possible- I think that's something we can both agree on yes?

in that I have no regrets-I wont compromise my principles either

Originally Posted by Devroux

I appreciate the BG more when it comes to One Piece. I don't know enough about anything else to really debate, which is why I don't express my opinion in most other threads. I don't care about Naruto enough to try, even though I keep up with the manga too.

But rest assured, if Whitebeard is mentioned, I'll make my appearance!

Whitebeard is awesome, people keep putting him in fights he's destined to get slaughtered in though which makes me kinda sad- I understand doing it to a guy like Sasuke or those hypocrites in the world government..but Newgates too awesome

[Sagepain]

I think Dev's side of the pedo issue is that its online and really.........what can Eagle do thats over the top harmful and dangerous besides mentally abuse someone with porn pics?

Not sure though