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Old 01-13-2013, 07:17 PM   #1
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Default Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

Quote:
knife eater from MangaShare:
Chapters 609 and 610 have challenged the reader's faith in the good guys' ability to triumph. An immortal Madara in possession of Hashirama's power, a warped minded Obito empowered by gifts and conceit of Madara, but most frighteningly, an emerging juubi that while incomplete, has incomprehensible power and is seemingly beyond vulnerability of any conventional attack. To make matters worse, the juubi was called and is bent to the will of Madara and Obito. Good grief!

It seems, though, that the good guys must not simply triumph over impossible odds but that the bad guys must commit error in order to lose!

So, we are sitting on two huge mistakes in Madara's judgement that can come into play at anytime and change the game.

1) Madara does not have a way of gathering or using natural energy on his own. At best he must do it on some level through the juubi itself.

2) He defines and recognizes the tailed beasts as something less than a person and merely a coalescence of chakra that must obey.

These two mistakes, especially when considered together, demonstrate Madara's severe lack of understanding the forces he is trying to control. Even Kabuto recognizes the importance of using natural energy to reach the level of power the rikoudo wielded, Kabuto also learned much of the secret knowledge through hypothesis with Orochimaru that Madara learned in some respects, "effortlessly" through direct contact with the stone tablet.

Naruto not only has a technique for utilizing natural energy but also has given the tailed beasts the recognition and respect as persons that Naruto himself suffered without. Naruto has already with the bijuu come to an understanding of each others side and ended that cycle of hate. When and how that will manifest in the struggle with the juubi is anyone's guess but with such a dramatic amount of natural energy gathered in the juubi, it seems like a blank canvas to me but which of the shinobi is the most qualified artist to give it shape and color?

As amazing as Madara was in getting this far he really screwed the pooch by not fully understanding or recognizing the power he tries to control. Such a disrespectful ambition will cost him dearly no matter if he succeeds in capturing the 8 and 9 tails and completing the juubi.

The mistakes don't end there, his pupil and protoge, Obito, is every second becoming a wild card. A wild card with some of the same crucial powers Madara has.

Madara is arrogantly picking dismissing the traits of defeated shinobi in the idea that winning a fight is the right way to measure power, arrogantly assuming his edo tensei form affords him absolute security (this is admittedly arguable).

For me, it's not a question of how can the good guys win but how much longer can the bad guys go on before that which they overlooked or dismissed comes into play and unravels all their effort. It's just a matter of time and naruto need only survive.

Oh, and as for Sasuke, his Kirin technique was a foreshadowing element of himself and natural energy. Natural energy need not be simply understood as sage chakra but as the raw force in every rock, tree, and river. A gathering storm cloud that offers a lighting strike as Sasuke needs it is clear demonstration that he is capable of a relationship with those forces and the reader can go all day scaling the significance of sasuke 's kirin to possibilities of steering the juubi using the same principles.
Here is my idea... Since in his current state, Madara can only become nothing is by being sealed... I'm betting that he will pull an Aizen and be all like...

UOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
*mind break*
*some form of transformation like Ultimate Susano'o*
*Naruto demonstrates badassery*
*seal*

In my opinion, Madara should use Tajuu Shadow Clone Jutsu what with having unlimited chakra reserve and whatnot, then have them all use Ultimate Susano'o. I mean, come on, he'd have an army of Ultimate Susano'o that not even the Juubi could handle, regardless of having his chakra split up 1000 different ways, because you know, he has unlimited what with being in Edo Tensei... I don't think Madara actually knows what he himself is capable of in Edo Tensei. He doesn't reallyyy need to be fighting them all with the Juubi. I mean come on Madara.

madra, wat r u doin, madra, stahp, dou sumtin als.

Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

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madra, wat r u doin, madra, stahp, dou sumtin als.

Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish.
I told myself that same thing as I read the chapters after the obito flashback xDD I know he wants to test out juubis power and do the despair to the alliance but come on...arnt you overdoing it a little?
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:53 PM   #3
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

well...having unlimited chakra isn't the same as having infinite amount of chakra... The capacity of chakra his body can hold is limited... only his chakra will always be refilled...meaning, he'll never run out...

Example: If say madara has the capacity to hold 10 gallons of chakra, this will mean, at all times, he'd possess 10 gallons of chakra... he cannot make his chakra 1000000...gallons... so if he makes 10 shadow clones, each will have 1 gallon of chakra...which is evident in his fight against the kages... his clones weren't as powerful and the susanoo had less form....

I hope i am making some sense... so yea, he has unlimited supply of chakra but his body capacity can only hold a limited amount at once...he cannot increase it beyond what he'd natural possess.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalmeast View Post
well...having unlimited chakra isn't the same as having infinite amount of chakra... The capacity of chakra his body can hold is limited... only his chakra will always be refilled...meaning, he'll never run out...

Example: If say madara has the capacity to hold 10 gallons of chakra, this will mean, at all times, he'd possess 10 gallons of chakra... he cannot make his chakra 1000000...gallons... so if he makes 10 shadow clones, each will have 1 gallon of chakra...which is evident in his fight against the kages... his clones weren't as powerful and the susanoo had less form....

I hope i am making some sense... so yea, he has unlimited supply of chakra but his body capacity can only hold a limited amount at once...he cannot increase it beyond what he'd natural possess.

Well, if Kurama can recharge his other half of his chakra that he lost when the 4th sealed him, then Madara's clones can recharge to full Madara Chakra.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

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Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
Well, if Kurama can recharge his other half of his chakra that he lost when the 4th sealed him, then Madara's clones can recharge to full Madara Chakra.
well...that's a very interesting uptake... but it's based on presumption...
Kurama recharging his other yin half is a complete presumption...there are no reference to this at all...

Thus you cannot base your deductions on this premise... although it does sound plausible...

but...the fact that we saw how his clones looked like already when he fought the kages is a greater evidence for argument.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:57 AM   #6
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

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Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
Here is my idea... Since in his current state, Madara can only become nothing is by being sealed...
He doesn't want to destroy the SHinobi Alliance, he wants essentually to rule over them in Tsukuyomi world. And he's already said how he'll be beat, Obito has to resurrect him since he cannot be a jinchurriki while he is Edo-Madara.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:57 AM   #7
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

Infinite vs Unlimited:
9000+ replenishing Kage Bunshins vs 9000+ seconds of continuous Katon.
I say, the second one would be stronger.
Katon: Flamethrower no Jutsu.

(Yeah, "big bosses" are still pretty much UP'ed, despite claiming to be OP'ed...)
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:34 AM   #8
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
Here is my idea... Since in his current state, Madara can only become nothing is by being sealed... I'm betting that he will pull an Aizen and be all like...

UOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
*mind break*
*some form of transformation like Ultimate Susano'o*
*Naruto demonstrates badassery*
*seal*

In my opinion, Madara should use Tajuu Shadow Clone Jutsu what with having unlimited chakra reserve and whatnot, then have them all use Ultimate Susano'o. I mean, come on, he'd have an army of Ultimate Susano'o that not even the Juubi could handle, regardless of having his chakra split up 1000 different ways, because you know, he has unlimited what with being in Edo Tensei... I don't think Madara actually knows what he himself is capable of in Edo Tensei. He doesn't reallyyy need to be fighting them all with the Juubi. I mean come on Madara.

madra, wat r u doin, madra, stahp, dou sumtin als.

Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish.
Dont underastimate Madara. He knows that very well. But. He lived in an era where he was at constant battle with anyone. During the time before the villages and the time when he fought with Hashirama. Yet he has summoned for the first time, Juubi. He, himself, doesnt know what is its full capacity of power, what can it do. So now we can say that he is twaddling around. Nothing more.

If the things were so serious for him why does he keep smiling, telling Obito not to that with "easy" words, without shouting. He doesnt take Naruto and the rest of the alliance seriously. He is Madara Uchiha. He fought Hashirama Senju, the one closest to the SO6P ever. The one who could control several beasts at once, treating them like they are his pets.

Dont expect less from Madara. He is "playing" a little game of chess. Till now he played his game without the queen (Juubi) but now he's started to use it too. He is not serious yet. He was a little bit more serious when he fought the 5 kages.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
Here is my idea... Since in his current state, Madara can only become nothing is by being sealed... I'm betting that he will pull an Aizen and be all like...

UOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
*mind break*
*some form of transformation like Ultimate Susano'o*
*Naruto demonstrates badassery*
*seal*

In my opinion, Madara should use Tajuu Shadow Clone Jutsu what with having unlimited chakra reserve and whatnot, then have them all use Ultimate Susano'o. I mean, come on, he'd have an army of Ultimate Susano'o that not even the Juubi could handle, regardless of having his chakra split up 1000 different ways, because you know, he has unlimited what with being in Edo Tensei... I don't think Madara actually knows what he himself is capable of in Edo Tensei. He doesn't reallyyy need to be fighting them all with the Juubi. I mean come on Madara.

madra, wat r u doin, madra, stahp, dou sumtin als.

Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish.
Not Kage, but Mokuton bunshin.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by and17y1 View Post

Dont expect less from Madara. He is "playing" a little game of chess. Till now he played his game without the queen (Juubi) but now he's started to use it too. He is not serious yet. He was a little bit more serious when he fought the 5 kages.
See, that's the thing. The Juubi isn't his 'queen'. His Edo Tensei form is.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:36 PM   #11
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

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Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
Not Kage, but Mokuton bunshin.
He has a Sharingan, so I'm assuming he has access to all Bunshin.
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:52 PM   #12
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
Here is my idea... Since in his current state, Madara can only become nothing is by being sealed... I'm betting that he will pull an Aizen and be all like...

UOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
*mind break*
*some form of transformation like Ultimate Susano'o*
*Naruto demonstrates badassery*
*seal*

In my opinion, Madara should use Tajuu Shadow Clone Jutsu what with having unlimited chakra reserve and whatnot, then have them all use Ultimate Susano'o. I mean, come on, he'd have an army of Ultimate Susano'o that not even the Juubi could handle, regardless of having his chakra split up 1000 different ways, because you know, he has unlimited what with being in Edo Tensei... I don't think Madara actually knows what he himself is capable of in Edo Tensei. He doesn't reallyyy need to be fighting them all with the Juubi. I mean come on Madara.

madra, wat r u doin, madra, stahp, dou sumtin als.

Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish.
But you don't understand that would kill Tobi(as Tobi never has any ability to avoid attacks) . So Madara must continue to pussyfoot around and lose.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

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But you don't understand that would kill Tobi(as Tobi never has any ability to avoid attacks) . So Madara must continue to pussyfoot around and lose.
As stated, Edo Madara is his queen, not the Juubi.

UNLESS Madara true-heartedly wants to become the jinchuuriki TO put the world under an epic and peaceful Tsukuyomi.

I digress.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:57 AM   #14
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

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He has a Sharingan, so I'm assuming he has access to all Bunshin.
Mokuton is stronger, and they don't 'poof' all the time.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:18 PM   #15
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

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Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
As stated, Edo Madara is his queen, not the Juubi.

UNLESS Madara true-heartedly wants to become the jinchuuriki TO put the world under an epic and peaceful Tsukuyomi.

I digress.
In any case, Tobi has Madara's balls in a vice, and is either too stupid realize he can take a coffee break and let Madara completely obliterate the shinobi alliance(in numerous ways mind you) or is just lying to Madara and seeing how much he can get away with.

Another side note, the Juubi is just a force of nature and has no consciousness. The Sage of Six Paths created the tailed beast and gave them such. Juubi is Before Sage, BS, was, is and ever shall be. :B
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

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In any case, Tobi has Madara's balls in a vice, and is either too stupid realize he can take a coffee break and let Madara completely obliterate the shinobi alliance(in numerous ways mind you) or is just lying to Madara and seeing how much he can get away with.

Another side note, the Juubi is just a force of nature and has no consciousness. The Sage of Six Paths created the tailed beast and gave them such. Juubi is Before Sage, BS, was, is and ever shall be. :B
This I can agree with.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

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In my opinion, Madara should use Tajuu Shadow Clone Jutsu what with having unlimited chakra reserve and whatnot, then have them all use Ultimate Susano'o. I mean, come on, he'd have an army of Ultimate Susano'o that not even the Juubi could handle, regardless of having his chakra split up 1000 different ways, because you know, he has unlimited what with being in Edo Tensei... I don't think Madara actually knows what he himself is capable of in Edo Tensei. He doesn't reallyyy need to be fighting them all with the Juubi. I mean come on Madara.
I guess its possible and all but the thing is Madara is just too damn overconfident. He and Obito want his enemies to suffer. Or at least Obito wants to see them suffer and for now Madara has to listen to Obito if Madra wants to become living flesh again. Plus that would be too quick and it would be OOC for Madra to do that
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

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But you don't understand that would kill Tobi(as Tobi never has any ability to avoid attacks) . So Madara must continue to pussyfoot around and lose.
Plus I don't understand what you mean by "doesn't have the ability to avoid attacks" when he has the ability to dodge everything for 5 minutes.

I mean, hide behind one of the Juubi's tails and go into the dimension so that Kakashi can't interfere.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:30 PM   #19
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

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Plus I don't understand what you mean by "doesn't have the ability to avoid attacks" when he has the ability to dodge everything for 5 minutes.

I mean, hide behind one of the Juubi's tails and go into the dimension so that Kakashi can't interfere.
I don't think he can control the Juubi at the same time as using this jutsu
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:33 PM   #20
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Default Re: Become God, and watch the Shinobi Alliance perish, Madara Uchiha!

^He could do it while controlling Kyuubi.
Why not while controlling Juubi? He has Madara controlling it, too.
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