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Old 01-14-2013, 01:56 PM   #2361
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

I would like to try (starting with kicking suigetsu out of kage tier heheh) but honestly theres not much change here. Except for maybe 5-ish characters.
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:53 PM   #2362
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

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I would like to try (starting with kicking suigetsu out of kage tier heheh) but honestly theres not much change here. Except for maybe 5-ish characters.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:01 AM   #2363
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

Quick thoughts and take them with a grain of salt because i probably only know a fraction of what a dedicated fan does.
(I also feel we may need more categories because someone like Hinata shouldn't be in the lowest tier, Also i don't believe Sage Mode Jiraiya is in the same class as Might Guy)


Does Might Guy really belong in the legend tier?

Spoiler:
Sage Mode Jiraiya- Possibly should be ranked a little higher, if not for some mental mistakes his battle with the 6 pains could be interesting


Orochimaru- in full health should definitely be placed higher than many of the others in legend tier like Guy, Kisame, and even Kakashi

Kakuzu- could argue he belongs in a higher tier but keeping the tiers there are i say this is about right

Deidara- I think Deidara could be ranked a little higher as well considering how he'd do one on one against most of the characters in the same tier. Without a sharingan he's insanely difficult to beat.

Kimimaro- Too high of a ranking in my opinion although fully healthy i could see the argument

High Tier

Temari-Really?
Hidan- Way too low
Chōji Akimichi
Kankuro-Too high
Asuma Sarutobi- Once again why we could use more tiers, he should be in a higher tier than someone like temari or shoji but not above hidan who defeated him

Hiashi Hyuga-Has neji not surpassed him?

Yamato- entirely too low?
Neji Hyūga- a little too low
Haku- a little high
Sai- Considering he's still talented enough to be an Anbu i'd say this is a little low
Kidomaru-could be lower considering his battle with a young neji

Mid Tier
Kiba Inuzuka- I'm biased about kiba i'd bump him a little higher
Kurenai Yūhi- Way too low in my opinion look to her battle with itachi
Shino Aburame- Easily belongs in the same level as neji, rock and others

Sakura Haruno- Okay now this list must be old or this is insane, Saukura is much higher than this


Low Tier
Hinata Hyūga-Belongs in mid tear at least
Kotetsu Hagane & Izumo Kamizuki- Extremely low for two highly ranked ninja that have survived almost every serious conflict
Konohamaru Sarutobi-Doesn't belong in the same tier as Obito, tented, hinata, etc.

Tenten- Too low considering it's the bottom tier
Ebisu- a little low considering his rank
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:11 PM   #2364
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

^ List hasin't been updated in 3-4 months so its actually fairly up to date based on that alone.

You do realize that Tenten has never won a single fight besides against random zetsu clones and possibly a mask right?

Temari is probably one of the strongest female characters in the series along with Mei, Tsunade, and Konan so yes I think that position is pretty accurate.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:00 PM   #2365
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Didn't even know we actually used anymore

Do Nagato and Pain really count as separate characters? Thats like Tayuya and her doki being separate

Also BMC I agree with moving Suigetsu and Mangetsu below Tsunade but they belong in Kage tier for the reasons i said before.

The Fourth Kazekage could possibly be higher too. I mean if he could quell Shukaku... Don't think he belongs in the bottom half of Kage tier.

Gai had been moved to legend tier after a long quarrel with a Gai fan, not exactly sure why though. But he is still one of the fastest in the verse and his Hirudora/Asakujaki wreck people's crap.

I think I could also move Choji, especially if he starts in giant butterfly mode
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:57 AM   #2366
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

They kinda do count as seperate characters.

And some of their feats are different where as pain paths mostly got blitzed/outspeeded by SM naruto. Nagato(edo) reacted quite casually to both bee and naruto. Nagato himself can also summon the gedo mazo in battle(back while he was alive) while he hasnt show to be able to that with the 6 paths. The paths also fight mostly overwhelming their opponent with numbers and 'the secret' is a big part of their fighting style while nagato doesnt have that going for him.

I get what you mean but the paths/nagato do fight differently and also are slightly different feat wise.

Demonfish has no feats except getting blown up by bee.(no he did not tank it). Nothing personal i just hate suigetsus overrated guts.

With his 'heavier' sand and gaara-esque fighting style he should be atleast above both kimi and chiyo. Maybe also mangetsu he simply drops a pile of gold on him try unliquefying while getting crushed by gold. Tsunade should be way higher just based on her tanking. why is gaara/shukaku in legend tier while the other jinchuriki arent?

Butterfly choji look hes one that should easily make the (low) Kage tier. Didnt he clear most of the battlefield of zetsu in addition to taking on gedo mazo(w/7 beasts)
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
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Originally Posted by Souret
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:06 AM   #2367
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

Yes they do have different feats, but the paths are essentially Nagato's jutsu.

Didn't the fish knock back Gyuki? And there's not much most Shinobi can do to him in that's state

Yes that's exactly what I was thinking. And despite the weight of the gold, it seems it didnt have a problem keeping up with Gaara's sand.Makes me wish We could've seen the third kazekage fight with his iron sand.

Pretty sure this list was made before the jinchuuriki made their appearance. they were still pretty featless. but Gaara Himself should be superior to Them without anything past V1. Tsunade can just run through everything, on top of that she has katsuyu.

I'll edit it when I get back later.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:45 AM   #2368
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

Its more kind of pains 'prep' then a true mid - battle viable jutsu.

This list goes by BG default which mean no lake which mean suigetsu out of kage tier (i did mention that i hate him right :P )

Since we only have their edo feats and thus can fully transform they should be above gaara. But i agree that gaara in base is superior.

Yeah, we need some flashbacks of badass kages /young chiyo soloing a castle and especially a hiruzen,the god of shinobi flashback. Those are the flashbacks i wanna see not yaoi-esque naruSasu moments.

Edit: Gonna make some quick changes for now as my bed is calling me. :P
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Souret
Yes

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Old 01-20-2013, 03:27 PM   #2369
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

So you've already been appointed? I ha a feeling you would be before I got back Welcome to the squad

Still not back home actually I will respond when I do or sometime tomorrow.

But Did you put kitsuchi in Kage tier?
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:39 PM   #2370
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

To Summarize:

Promoted Chouji to kage tier.
Promoted Tsuande to Legend
Various changes in the order of the legend tier.
Promoted all Jinuchuriki to legend tier , assuming edo tensei+ full control off beasts
Added Kitsuchi to the list in Kage tier, based on the huge scale of his sandowich jutsu , his status as leader of a division and punching V2 gin/kin(dont really care)kaku, and also his grand volcano -ish jutsu in a combo with kurotsuchi(ill add her later)

Feel free to tell me if anyone should go/up/down/sideways.

Also added some color.

Made some other changes in the lower tiers. This is just a general idea/direction for now.
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Souret
Yes

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Old 01-20-2013, 04:00 PM   #2371
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

Hmm, if the tailed beasts are all edo Tensei shouldn't they be higher? Otherwise Madara could actually be moved down since without edo Tensei he's much much weaker. They would actually be top of the legend tier under Naruto.

I was just checking with Kitsuchi cuz I didn't see him there before.

It a pain to edit this myself on my phone
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:46 PM   #2372
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

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Hmm, if the tailed beasts are all edo Tensei shouldn't they be higher? Otherwise Madara could actually be moved down since without edo Tensei he's much much weaker. They would actually be top of the legend tier under Naruto.

I was just checking with Kitsuchi cuz I didn't see him there before.

It a pain to edit this myself on my phone
No, Edo Tensei is not considered when it is used for control. Hashirama Senju and Tobirama Senju are not Edo Tensei by default. Because it is not them actually, they are controlled.

Madara on the other hand is himself with the benefits and downsides Edo Tensei have. Nobody controls him.

Itachi is a different story. While regaining his will, it is not clear how much free will Shisui's Genjutsu allowed him. In other words, Itachi is controlled in terms of not having choice to attack Konoha. Basically, he is under control of Kabuto, only that enemy's Jutsu "confused" him. And he really cannot do as he'd like because he is and was a subject to Kabuto cancelling all Edo Tensei, something that doesn't work on Madara!!!
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:36 PM   #2373
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

My point was Madara has an infinite pool of chakra now and he can't die. If he wasn't an edo Tensei the chances of him pulling out meteors, various forms of Susanoo, etc wouldn't be possible.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:09 PM   #2374
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMC1994 View Post
To Summarize:

Promoted Chouji to kage tier.
I have to say that I feel Chouji is very overrated. He can only use Butterfly Mode once per couple of months and even then all we saw was him getting owned by Gedo Maza (understandable, but still)
Promoted Tsuande to Legend
Various changes in the order of the legend tier.
Promoted all Jinuchuriki to legend tier , assuming edo tensei+ full control off beasts
I have a big problem with this. None of the Jinchuriki besides Naruto, Bee, and Yagura had perfect control of their beasts and besides them only Gaara and Yugito were known to be able to go through transformations. We can't give them Edo feats (besides the stuff they were showing before transforming) since Obito was controlling them (they weren't going into full transformations and using TBB's on their own).
Added Kitsuchi to the list in Kage tier, based on the huge scale of his sandowich jutsu , his status as leader of a division and punching V2 gin/kin(dont really care)kaku, and also his grand volcano -ish jutsu in a combo with kurotsuchi(ill add her later)

Feel free to tell me if anyone should go/up/down/sideways.

Also added some color.

Made some other changes in the lower tiers. This is just a general idea/direction for now.
Well I guess I'll actually look over the tiers now and give you my input.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:14 PM   #2375
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

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My point was Madara has an infinite pool of chakra now and he can't die. If he wasn't an edo Tensei the chances of him pulling out meteors, various forms of Susanoo, etc wouldn't be possible.
That doesn't change anything. Is he stronger with Edo Tensei? Yes, but that is the way it is.

If Spiderman wasn't bitten by a spider, he wouldn't have his super powers. If Naruto didn't have Kurama sealed inside him, he wouldn't have his Bijuu mode.

The fact is, Madara has these powers. How he got them doesn't matter. We don't have a rule saying, if a character has this power, he must not be treated as having it by default.

The only reason why we exclude Hashirama, Tobirama and everyone else summoned by Kabuto (except Madara) is because they are not themselves when being Edo Tensei. They are just bodies with that power. They are controlled. They are weapons.

Madara is in control. Edo Tensei is just a state in which he is and it should be acknowledged and accepted as such!!!
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:47 PM   #2376
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

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I guess I'm mostly confused about what the ratio of feats to hype to general applicability of abilities are in determining the tier ranking. For instance, Tsume and Hana are placed above Kiba in the Mid tier which makes sense according to hype, but is wrong when it comes to feats and by the reverse Kiba is placed above Kurenai, which makes sense in terms of feats, but is totally wrong in terms of hype.

Also is ranking determined by who would win in a 1v1 fight or who is more versatile/ overall powerful?
Can I finally get these questions answered?

Okay here are my points: Minato should be moved above 3rd Raikage. Not only would he win against him 1v1 (could easily use the same trick Naruto did w/ his intelligence and reaction speed) he is also more versatile (aside from FTG he has the frogs, ST barrier, sealing techs).

Gaara is way too low on the list. He's stronger than both A and Tsunade. Tons of stamina, Absolute Defense, intelligent and he even gets Shukaku here. Despite having only sand jutsu he is also amazingly versatile (defensive barriers, AoE attacks, projectiles, flight, sensing, sealing) You could make a case for how A beats Gaara, but how the hell does Tsunade win against him?

A should also be knocked down a few places (below Onoki), Suigetsu is still too high and Temari should be moved up a bit.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:13 PM   #2377
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

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Originally Posted by Ultimate combatant View Post
That doesn't change anything. Is he stronger with Edo Tensei? Yes, but that is the way it is.

If Spiderman wasn't bitten by a spider, he wouldn't have his super powers. If Naruto didn't have Kurama sealed inside him, he wouldn't have his Bijuu mode.

The fact is, Madara has these powers. How he got them doesn't matter. We don't have a rule saying, if a character has this power, he must not be treated as having it by default.

The only reason why we exclude Hashirama, Tobirama and everyone else summoned by Kabuto (except Madara) is because they are not themselves when being Edo Tensei. They are just bodies with that power. They are controlled. They are weapons.

Madara is in control. Edo Tensei is just a state in which he is and it should be acknowledged and accepted as such!!!
Yes... I never disagreed to a any of this. My point was that if the Jinchuuriki were edo tensei on the list then they should be moved higher. I was simply using Maddy as an example
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:37 PM   #2378
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

@Godaime

The characters here are at full power which mean buttrfly form for chouji.

The problem that arises her is that for most we have ONLY their edo tensei feats. There were are 'supposedly' powerfull shinobi in their life but its hard to judge by what we havent seen. So i thought taking their edo tensei forms would be easier for the list.

Hes only in low kage tier. Just the size alone would pwn most people below him.

Looking into the rest.

@US

Isnt it alot easier to use the version we fully know for the list. I just moved the jinchurki a tier above no particular order yet.
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:48 PM   #2379
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

Changes:

Placed the jinchuriki below nagato as they are still vulnerable to soul pulling and below Itachi /totsuka.

Placed minato namikaze above the 3rd Raikage.

Moved Gaara/w Shukaku above Sasuke Uchiha.

@Godaime

I am kinda using kakashi as a parameter so the character would need to be fast/numerous/powerfull enough to either escape,prevent or straight up kill before he uses kamui.

A meets the requirement which is why i put him above kakashi.
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:19 AM   #2380
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Default Re: Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

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guess I'm mostly confused about what the ratio of feats to hype to general applicability of abilities are in determining the tier ranking. For instance, Tsume and Hana are placed above Kiba in the Mid tier which makes sense according to hype, but is wrong when it comes to feats and by the reverse Kiba is placed above Kurenai, which makes sense in terms of feats, but is totally wrong in terms of hype.
Hype and feats are both taken into account. Hana and Tsume should be above Kiba. Tsume is a jonin and fights essentially the same way as Kiba so shes higher. Kurenai's hype lies in her genjutsu skill alone, her other feats are kinda low-end

Although Hana could go either way.

Kiba has two headed wolf, but it's an Inuzuka technique, not just his. so it's safe to say Tsume knows it as well

@BMC THen we should move the edo Kage up, because they still can't die Edo throws things off IMO. Should we take it as if they can die?
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