Abortion: Moral or Immoral?

[BMC1994]

Only in case of rape where you truly had no control /way to prevent this situation from happening.

In any other case you reap what you sow simple as that. Im not religious but still you do have a potential human there with an potential future, maybe a potential future president or king, or a doctor which will cure cancer or something.

It feels wrong(to me) to rob the world and its inhabitants from that potential doctor/future president.

Regardless of that if you werent raped it was your own damn fault and you should live with the consequences of being a dumb **** (or just being someone who cant foresee the consequences of what she does).
May the memory of the pain of labour forever remeber you to prevent this from happening ever again by using protection.

If you yourself are unable to take care of the baby there is always adoption as there are a couple hundred childless couples who would love to raise your child.

There a happy couple and the ex-mom learned her lesson.

Although there is a small part of me which says that its kinda okay within the first two weeks or something. When its not really anything yet.(maybe some sort of remove your hand from the fire before its burns mentality idk)

[Shisko Shi]

^ I agree with you on this.

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Only in case of rape where you truly had no control /way to prevent this situation from happening.

In any other case you reap what you sow simple as that. Im not religious but still you do have a potential human there with an potential future, maybe a potential future president or king, or a doctor which will cure cancer or something.

It feels wrong(to me) to rob the world and its inhabitants from that potential doctor/future president.

Or it's next potential psychokiller or drug dealer. And yes I hate making that counter argument but I also hate your original argument. Both are stupid. Do we judge everything by it's potential even if it has demonstrated nothing? Every block of stainless steel is a knife or a bullet. I do not feel comfortable introducing stainless steel to the world, it's a potential weapon with a potential to kill.

Do you understand why this logic doesn't work?

Regardless of that if you werent raped it was your own damn fault and you should live with the consequences of being a dumb **** (or just being someone who cant foresee the consequences of what she does).
May the memory of the pain of labour forever remeber you to prevent this from happening ever again by using protection.

If you yourself are unable to take care of the baby there is always adoption as there are a couple hundred childless couples who would love to raise your child.

I wish everyone understood proportionality as well as you do. You made a mistake (one that didn't harm you or the people around you in a significant way) let's change the course of your entire life.

Maybe if you ever cheat on a test I should cut off the hand you wrote with. That will show you.

Trust me I am in no way defending the stupidity of unprotected sex. But do you really think that those individuals who lacked the judgement to put on a 6 inch piece of latex are fit to raise children?

And you came with the "adoption solves everything" point which is equally naive. Do you know how many children don't get adopted? How about the racial gap between adopting families and the children being chosen? How about the guilt that will follow that man and woman the rest of their life about the child they gave up? How about the hundreds of thousands of older orphans (already among us) that lose out in adoption to younger children and babies?

Yet your goal is to protect an unconscious life so that in can be born into a bad situation in hopes that it will one day develop into a leader in our society.

There a happy couple and the ex-mom learned her lesson.

Yes one of the most painful sensations a human can experience, childbirth, in exchange for unprotected sex (or perhaps condom breakage), along with 9 months of additional discomfort, in addition emotional trauma and strained relationships . That will show her.

Although there is a small part of me which says that its kinda okay within the first two weeks or something. When its not really anything yet.(maybe some sort of remove your hand from the fire before its burns mentality idk)

You do realize that by setting that arbitrary mark you open the debate wide open once again. If two weeks (which is barely enough time for a girl to notice she missed her period let alone mull over a devastating abortion operation) why not four? If four why now 8, if 8 why not 10? If you want to take your stand this probably isn't the way to do it.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

Or it's next potential psychokiller or drug dealer. And yes I hate making that counter argument but I also hate your original argument. Both are stupid. Do we judge everything by it's potential even if it has demonstrated nothing? Every block of stainless steel is a knife or a bullet. I do not feel comfortable introducing stainless steel to the world, it's a potential weapon with a potential to kill.

Do you understand why this logic doesn't work?



I wish everyone understood proportionality as well as you do. You made a mistake (one that didn't harm you or the people around you in a significant way) let's change the course of your entire life.

Maybe if you ever cheat on a test I should cut off the hand you wrote with. That will show you.

Trust me I am in no way defending the stupidity of unprotected sex. But do you really think that those individuals who lacked the judgement to put on a 6 inch piece of latex are fit to raise children?

And you came with the "adoption solves everything" point which is equally naive. Do you know how many children don't get adopted? How about the racial gap between adopting families and the children being chosen? How about the guilt that will follow that man and woman the rest of their life about the child they gave up? How about the hundreds of thousands of older orphans (already among us) that lose out in adoption to younger children and babies?

Yet your goal is to protect an unconscious life so that in can be born into a bad situation in hopes that it will one day develop into a leader in our society.



Yes one of the most painful sensations a human can experience, childbirth, in exchange for unprotected sex (or perhaps condom breakage), along with 9 months of additional discomfort, in addition emotional trauma and strained relationships . That will show her.



You do realize that by setting that arbitrary mark you open the debate wide open once again. If two weeks (which is barely enough time for a girl to notice she missed her period let alone mull over a devastating abortion operation) why not four? If four why now 8, if 8 why not 10? If you want to take your stand this probably isn't the way to do it.

That counter argument doesnt work either because we then might a well murk all babies they all potential murderers anyway.

Your counter argument justifies killing pregnant mothers for hiding murderers.

Do away with all steel. Now from what will you make your support for bridges buildings etc. Wood? Also potential weapon. Lets just suicide because anything can potentially kill us anyway.

Thats a different situation (there were countires where they would cut off your hand if you would steal just fyi).
As an person who beliefs that most of the happens which happen to you is a result of your actions. I belief to grow and learn you must bear the consequences of those actions. If not what prevents this from happening again. She can abort anytime she wants anyway.
My post already made an exception if this occured without having any control over it (which includes condom breakage)

That mistake clearly did harm you otherwise the result wouldnt have to be removed would it? Isnt the father harmed with all his emotion and expectation for the future thrown in a giant rollercoater if the family finds does the same not go for them? Pysically most of them are fine but emotionally there can be alot going on.

The guilt of giving up a child will always be there even if you do abortion. They will be always thinking of that 'what-if'.

I was merely giving my opinion. Its not made up out of 100% fact (as you mostly pointed out). 2 weeks also was not fact. I simply meant until an actual foetus/baby like entity can be seen. As that is for my feeling the boundary for adoption.

This debate is really innately based more on opinion then actual fact. I am not claiming to be 100% factually correct or that my opinion is law. Or even that my opinion is right. I was merely stating my own personal opinion.

[PrinceofPeace]

Adoption is the option for me.

If you don't want your baby give it up.

This is a varying topic. If there are birth defects are rape Or other conditions I could understand

But overall 99% of the time I am anti abortion and I would have the baby

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

That counter argument doesnt work either because we then might a well murk all babies they all potential murderers anyway.

Your counter argument justifies killing pregnant mothers for hiding murderers.

Do away with all steel. Now from what will you make your support for bridges buildings etc. Wood? Also potential weapon. Lets just suicide because anything can potentially kill us anyway.

Thats a different situation (there were countires where they would cut off your hand if you would steal just fyi).
As an person who beliefs that most of the happens which happen to you is a result of your actions. I belief to grow and learn you must bear the consequences of those actions. If not what prevents this from happening again. She can abort anytime she wants anyway.
My post already made an exception if this occured without having any control over it (which includes condom breakage)

That mistake clearly did harm you otherwise the result wouldnt have to be removed would it? Isnt the father harmed with all his emotion and expectation for the future thrown in a giant rollercoater if the family finds does the same not go for them? Pysically most of them are fine but emotionally there can be alot going on.

The guilt of giving up a child will always be there even if you do abortion. They will be always thinking of that 'what-if'.

I was merely giving my opinion. Its not made up out of 100% fact (as you mostly pointed out). 2 weeks also was not fact. I simply meant until an actual foetus/baby like entity can be seen. As that is for my feeling the boundary for adoption.

This debate is really innately based more on opinion then actual fact. I am not claiming to be 100% factually correct or that my opinion is law. Or even that my opinion is right. I was merely stating my own personal opinion.

I think my sarcasm completely flew over your head. I clearly stated that my counterargument DID NOT WORK my point was that I was following the same logic you were.

Again you completely missed the point of my steel example lol. Your correction WAS MY POINT. Judging something by its potential when it hasn't demonstrated anything makes no sense. That's why I said you can't say you're robbing the world of a future doctor or lawyer because I could say ___ (read above).

Yes I'm aware that as a punishment for robbery in certain countries people have their hands amputated (although my African Seminar professor says that Western culture has exaggerated how often that happens under Sharia Law) that was why I made that point. It's about proportionality.

If someone steals an apple to teach them a lesson you don't cut off their hand. If a child disobeys their parents they aren't brutally flogged in front of the entire neighborhood. Childbirth is a life changing event, not some instrument for "teaching some kids a lesson."

Yes, I agree the emotional trauma of an abortion will probably haunt both the potential mother and father for the rest of their lives but it doesn't involve bringing another human being into the chaos and changing the course of the mother and father's lives.

I agree that this debate is mostly opinion based I was just providing some facts that inform my opinion. Both you and Prince have suggested that adoption is some grand solution to the problem and I am telling you it's not. I'll repeat...

-Children of certain races are less likely to get adopted
-The amount of families ready to adopt do not match the number of new children being born and in need of adoption
-Older children and teenagers are much less likely to be passed over for adoption for an infant or toddler.

[TheTrueMasterofIllusions]

Moral. Especially in cases of rape, incest, women in danger, and if they cannot care for the baby. As long as the person getting the abortion or the offender pays for it. I do have problems with the last reason because I feel it's irresponsible.
I think there should be a deadline around the time the baby is viable unless the mother's life is endanger.

[Shisko Shi]

Hey for those who say, "Well the condom broke." Well I don't want to get dirty but Their are other ways to have it. And I am sure you know what I mean. So I don't want to hear well it broke because that is a completely dumb excuse.

[Saiyan]

I don't personally support it but if someone wanted to do it that's on them.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

I think my sarcasm completely flew over your head. I clearly stated that my counterargument DID NOT WORK my point was that I was following the same logic you were.

Again you completely missed the point of my steel example lol. Your correction WAS MY POINT. Judging something by its potential when it hasn't demonstrated anything makes no sense. That's why I said you can't say you're robbing the world of a future doctor or lawyer because I could say ___ (read above).

Yes I'm aware that as a punishment for robbery in certain countries people have their hands amputated (although my African Seminar professor says that Western culture has exaggerated how often that happens under Sharia Law) that was why I made that point. It's about proportionality.

If someone steals an apple to teach them a lesson you don't cut off their hand. If a child disobeys their parents they aren't brutally flogged in front of the entire neighborhood. Childbirth is a life changing event, not some instrument for "teaching some kids a lesson."

Yes, I agree the emotional trauma of an abortion will probably haunt both the potential mother and father for the rest of their lives but it doesn't involve bringing another human being into the chaos and changing the course of the mother and father's lives.

I agree that this debate is mostly opinion based I was just providing some facts that inform my opinion. Both you and Prince have suggested that adoption is some grand solution to the problem and I am telling you it's not. I'll repeat...

-Children of certain races are less likely to get adopted
-The amount of families ready to adopt do not match the number of new children being born and in need of adoption
-Older children and teenagers are much less likely to be passed over for adoption for an infant or toddler.

Meh i had to post something for content

Again i do not have the numbers the i think the chances for the baby to become an actual contributing/just well-functioning member of society are greater then it becoming some murderer/world dominator/criminal. Atleast in the western world. /couldhavementionedthisearlierbutanyway.

My whole opinion is essentially based on the 'you reap what you sow' mentality what i have.

Sure you dont have to cut off the hand of person whole stole but there has to be some kind of consequence to (try) prevent it from happening again.

In my example the babies would be adopted around the time they were born so they wont be that old yet.
Although your other two points still stand.

[InnerSakura]

Its a very difficult concept...If you abort early before the fetus has been formed, then idk if it would still be murder. But even if you abort during the first trimester some people still argue that the life of the baby, and the baby's soul, etc has already been formed from the moment the baby was conceived. But if the woman was raped, well, thats a completely different story too. I can see why there would be a reason not to want a child that you got pregnant with by being raped. But then again, there have been people who have been raped who have still gave birth to their children and still loved them and raised them despite who their father was. I mean, can you really blame a child for who their parents are? We are all individuals. We shouldnt be defined by who was our mother/father. So I guess all in all its just up to the individual if they want to abort or not. And honestly, if the baby already has a soul or whatever from the moment of being conceived, my thoughts are that even if you aborted, technically that baby would go to heaven. Therefor the child wouldnt have to endure life growing up with a parent that doesnt love them and the constant scorn from other people as to who their father was (in the case of rape). And also, no I dont think the father should have any say as to whether a baby can or will be aborted. It should be the female's choice, just like whether they want to have a baby or not in the first place should be the female's choice. Thats just me, personally.

[Saiyan]

Originally Posted by Souret

But medical science has given people away to avoid those consequences imo it perfectly suitable for people to take advantage of that and avoid the consequences of their actions. It's natural for people to find a solution to their problems I see abortion as a solution to the idiocy of man kind.

Sounds more like the final solution too me.