Naruto vs Avatar: The Last Airbender

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

And they are still above the earth kingdom benders. This doesn't disprove what I said.

Heck the best Dai agents were able to counter Aang and Toph for at least a time.

Still my point that the regular SOund Chunin or Jounin was moving faster than eye to Sakura's perception.
So even if you want to claim PTS Sakura's was regular human. The regular bender will still get blitzed at close quarters by the same Sound fodder chunin or jounin.

But since you insist, lets do the reverse. What makes you believe they can react at least close quarters?

Of course its wrong but thats not what I am saying. Granted this is when people compare speed feats although its subjective to a major degree. But at least I can support A has shown more impressive speed than Hanataro but in the end. You accept it or not.

All I am saying is this.
PTS Sakura has shown better stuff than a regular fodder bender has ever done in the speed department. That fact actually stands and be backed up.

Everything is plot same with the show. The point is that you cannot dispute is that NAruto fodder can be a little impressive if given the chance and that they could fight with the White Zetsu who were known to be quite durable themselves.

That's relative. In Avatar standards oh heck he is.

An equalist chi blocker lacks Neji's reflexes and movement speed and his strength.

Are you declaring now that an equalist chi blocker with kaiten can take on Kidomaru? No he gets destroyed with impunity.

2 special jounin named but still fodder forced the Sound 4 go to CS2 mode to defeat them.

They leap through trees long periods of time. Thats above "our definition" of peak human.

Also PTS Sakura threw a kunai that pinned Naruto to a giant tree trunk from far away. That requires much strength and precisions and speed above "peak human".

Even the Dosu squad was zipping about in a blur before they attacked Kabuto.

Also regular Jounin ninjas such as Hayate technically moved faster than Neji could attack Hinata.

The anbu are also supposed to be above the regular ninja yet they still are fodder.

I dont see how a 12 year old girls perspective helps your point at all. So now you are comparing atleast top/peakhuman benders with martial arts skills and fire/water/wind/earth powers to a featless 12 year old girl?

Simply because naruto fodder has not shown anything which indicates that they can battle faster and neither did avatar. If they are so obviously faster then show me a panel or explain why.

The original whitezetsu got one-hitted how were they supposed to be durable in any way we have seen?

True but i was using narutoverse standards.

Ill give you that due to lack of byakugan and his idk how many spiders feat.

Named people in general are not fodder. Even if they are very weak.

And how would leaping through tress help in a actual battle? It only shows they have above avarage stamina.

Those 20-30ish meters? Precision sure but not much strenght.

Edit: Sokka throw his boomerang at least that far but no one is cliaming that he is 'superhuman'

Hayate intervened from the outside, he only needed to see the rhytym of the attacks and interrupt it. It shows reaction speed at most.

[321zigzag3]

Originally Posted by Bradley

That is an interesting scan.

Originally Posted by BMC1994

I dont see how a 12 year old girls perspective helps your point at all.

a featless girl? she was reacting to and fighting Zabu. All genin have some type of low level superhuman speed.

I already told you the pinning kunai feat. That's superhuman too. She was almost blitzed.
Avatar bender fodder lack the experience against these at close quarters. They haven't shown the speed to react.

If they are so obviously faster then show me a panel or explain why.

I already did this.

Dosu squad.
That fodder Sound ninja.
Hayate's feat.

You want more?
Neji blitzing through Naruto clones in direct cqc.
Kiba against Naruto.
Sasuke was known to have speed for genin in Land of Waves and overwhelming Haku's base speed.
Rock Lee humiliating Naruto and Sasuke in speed.

All genin ninjas.

The original whitezetsu got one-hitted how were they supposed to be durable in any way we have seen?

Kiba or some character said it.

Also the original one was oneshotted due to Amaterasu Susanoo sword.
Almost anyone would have been oneshotted by that.

True but i was using narutoverse standards.

Then what is the problem.

Ill give you that due to lack of byakugan and his idk how many spiders feat.

He had the reflexes and strength to knock out all the many spiders.
He also had the strength to push Kidomaru and destroy a tree trunk casually with him in it.

When nearly dying he had the sheer will to use his full speed to intercept Kidomaru CS2 when falling more than 50 meters away.

And how would leaping through tress help in a actual battle? It only shows they have above avarage stamina.

That requires consistent at least bare superhuman strength compared to our standards to do it.

Those 20-30ish meters? Precision sure but not much strenght.

Yes strength and speed included because it was able to nullify Naruto's falling speed + his weight and pin him deeply into a tree trunk. You think a regular 12 year old girl even a tip top person can do that?

A grown fit man by our standards as well even a bender can't do that.

The only ones I could say are the Yuan Archers.

Hayate intervened from the outside, he only needed to see the rhytym of the attacks and interrupt it. It shows reaction speed at most.

No.
He moved and intercepted Neji's movements before Neji could react. Neji was blitzed technically.

[BMC1994]

But why are you mentioning all these named characters? I was talking about fodder only. Otherwise i could powerscale every earthbender of toph too (also 10-12 ish years old).
Fodder would simply be anbu/nameless army shinobi/maybe zetsus.
Genin =/= fodder mind you that naruto and sasuke both some of the most powerfull characters in the manga are genin. Also rank is not a reliable indicator of strenght or weakness.(so you cant say that all fodder jonin/chuunin should be atleast that strong as gated pts lee most own most of them)
So why mention all these named characters while most of them have shown way more then fodder?

True but my point is zetsu has not shown much in the durability department.

I dont see where strenght comes into play stamina sure but not strenght. I myself can jump a distance of 5 ish meters casually not the dozens of times that they do ofcourse but my point is the strenght required is far from superhuman/ ever seen freerunners jump buildings and such and they are far from superhuman. The only thing the treejumping proves is their enormous stamina but not strenght.

Id still say speed and precision at most as naruto wasnt that far from the trunk.

Neji wasnt even paying attention to hayate thats not a blitz.

[321zigzag3]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

So why mention all these named characters while most of them have shown way more then fodder?

So does fodder chunin and jounin are weaker than genins now?

That fodder sound ninja comes back again and again.

The only thing the treejumping proves is their enormous stamina but not strenght.

YOu still need leg strength to jump that far. Peak humans in our world can't do what the ninjas jump all the time.

Id still say speed and precision at most as naruto wasnt that far from the trunk.

Proves my point either way. Strength as in piercing the trunk deep.
Speed is obvious. They are both superhuman.

Neji wasnt even paying attention to hayate thats not a blitz.

You don't need to pay attention to something to be a blitz. The fact Hayate stopped Neji in front of him makes it more of a blitz.

[e710]

Just thought of putting this point in here. When Naruto was still in the academy he was jumping around far beyond regular human heights, and was jumping around the Hokage
Mt. Rushmore. Not to mention that the teenagers and can throw shuriken and kunai with ease and with precision better than a master thrower.

[Shisko Shi]

I didn't choose the right one, but It could go any way depending on tatics. But Naruto and his friends.

Those little moves to creat a metor of fire or what ever that is easy for most shinobi. Just have naruto and bee go Bijju and Gaara and his sand done.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

So does fodder chunin and jounin are weaker than genins now?

That fodder sound ninja comes back again and again.

YOu still need leg strength to jump that far. Peak humans in our world can't do what the ninjas jump all the time.

Proves my point either way. Strength as in piercing the trunk deep.
Speed is obvious. They are both superhuman.

You don't need to pay attention to something to be a blitz. The fact Hayate stopped Neji in front of him makes it more of a blitz.

So every fodder chunin/jonin are mountain bustin blitzers because they are supposed to be stronger then genins? (cough naruto). Again you are powerscaling of people way more powerfull then chunin/jonin fodder.(hey i dont write the manga) That point doesnt even matter because everyone you have mentioned is not fodder.

If genin were so super human then why would they use all of team 7 too catch a cat.

Tell me something which the actual fodder has done which is impressive. (preferably without 12 year old girls)

Even without that outlier you arent going to tell me that fodder > Gated lee? Atleast thats what i hope.

Normal humans have the leg strenght to jump that far just not the stamina to keep it up. Just look at building jumping free runners (who are not even peak human).

So piercing a trunk with a weapon designed for the purose of piercings things = super human strenght now?

Hayate wasnt even in the fight himself / interrupting from outside is not a blitz.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by Shisko Shi

I didn't choose the right one, but It could go any way depending on tatics. But Naruto and his friends.

Those little moves to creat a metor of fire or what ever that is easy for most shinobi. Just have naruto and bee go Bijju and Gaara and his sand done.

Please explain how Avatarverse defeats the Juubi and the Sage of the Six Paths fighting together (not to mention Madara, Kabuto, the Jinchuuriki, the Kage and all of the other high level ninja, some of which could be argued to solo the Avatarverse)

[321zigzag3]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

So every fodder chunin/jonin are mountain bustin blitzers because they are supposed to be stronger then genins?

Exceeding unnecessary exaggeration of your post aside.

(cough naruto). Again you are powerscaling of people way more powerfull then chunin/jonin fodder.(hey i dont write the manga) That point doesnt even matter because everyone you have mentioned is not fodder.

Which is why I only mentioned genin level ninjas so you would not able to make a counter but since you still object I will put it this way.

Those fodder chunin and jounin had to pass the same test the genin did.
Further more they had years to hone in their skills.
While these named genin are more talented than average those fodder chunin and jounin should be above them at least in speed and strength reflexes unless special situations such as.

Rock Lee's movements such as in gates.
Or Neji's hand reflex speed.
Gaara's sand speed.

If genin were so super human then why would they use all of team 7 too catch a cat.

Its a job designed for reading humor and to also test the Team 7 genin's teamwork skill.

Not meant to be taken that seriously.

Tell me something which the actual fodder has done which is impressive. (preferably without 12 year old girls)

You do realize you still have yet to counter what I actually said? Panels don't lie.

It also doesn't change the fact regular benders don't operate at that level of speed in close quarters at least.

Notice I am using the phrase "close quarters" on purpose for worst case scenario.
Unless you think fodder can't run faster the olympic level athletes or move faster than supreme martial artists in our world in reflexes.

Even without that outlier you arent going to tell me that fodder > Gated lee? Atleast thats what i hope.

Of course not. PTS Gated Lee is already jounin level or above.

Normal humans have the leg strenght to jump that far just not the stamina to keep it up. Just look at building jumping free runners (who are not even peak human).

So piercing a trunk with a weapon designed for the purose of piercings things = super human strenght now?

Can you name any other 12 year old girl who has the speed, arm strength, and precision who can do that at several dozen meters?

Hayate wasnt even in the fight himself / interrupting from outside is not a blitz.

Hayate moved and stopped in front of Neji intercepting his attack.

Maybe you think blitz differently. But it doesn't change Neji couldn't react.

[Devils Lawyer]

You do know BMC in chapter 1 Naruto was jumping off a cliff and zipping around the entire village casually. FYI at that point in time he was considered a garbage genin. Genins are clearly superhuman.

[Shisko Shi]

Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage

Please explain how Avatarverse defeats the Juubi and the Sage of the Six Paths fighting together (not to mention Madara, Kabuto, the Jinchuuriki, the Kage and all of the other high level ninja, some of which could be argued to solo the Avatarverse)

What? No I said Naruto wins lol.

[BMC1994]

@zigzag

Merely using the same logic you did. All those fodder/genin had to pass the test naruto did and had years to hone their skills.

Is there any valid reason they should be above the current genins speed? Again rank is not a valid indicator of strenght. Examples like naruto, pts lee, neji (jonin while not significantly stronger then for example chuunin rock lee). With the whole new generation surpassing old vibe in the mabga its easily possible all these genin were actually faster then jonin/chuunin fodder.

You arent even opposing my point. I say that avatarfodder has a good chance of winning of narutofodder based on their own feats.

Then you name named characters (some quite powerfull) and say that the fodder/chuunin should be atleast that strong because of rank. Which doesnt have to be case. Also note that the k11 have had some of the most powerfulls senseis in naruto (atleast mid - to top tier) like kakashi, asuma, kurenai(going by hype) , gai. While on the other hand konohamarus team got stuck with ebisu. I cant imagine that all fodder shinobi had a teacher as powerfull as kakashi or gai.


Examples like rock lee(base)/genin > iruka/chuunin , And Hinata(feat wise)/chuunin > Ebisu/jonin come to mind. Your logic is flawed.

Its impressive for her age but when grown(not even adult men) men can throw larger projectile nearly twice that distance i cant call it super human. (check out javelin throwing and other sports) so again speed and precision are beyond normal but strenght isnt.

So in that case naruto blitzed mizuki in chapter a chuunin who should be 'above him in terms of speed strenght reflexes' ?
The very first chapter already shows that your logic is flawed.

Edit: The chuunin exams isnt even about psycical feats like speed or strenght. Powerfull people like gaara and lee who moved faster then the human can track were failed the first time while shikamaru having shown nothing psysically impressive passed the test and became chuunin before all of the k11.

@devils

The zipping is in the anime only, it just skips to naruto being in class in the manga.

Keyword is considered i wouldnt call the guy who mastered rasengan in a week and mastered kage bunshin(not that common even among jonins) garbage.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by Shisko Shi

What? No I said Naruto wins lol.

VV

Originally Posted by Shisko Shi

I didn't choose the right one, but It could go any way depending on tatics.

...?

Did you mean the Narutoverse has many different ways to win?

[Shisko Shi]

Imo Naruto's world wins, but it could always go diffrent if their is a really good stratigy. I picked tie and I din't want that. I changed my mind.

[321zigzag3]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Is there any valid reason they should be above the current genins speed?

Its simply powerscaling logic and common sense.

Even two regular named chunin had fought and went easy on them before the actual tournament and after the forest of death.

With the whole new generation surpassing old vibe in the mabga its easily possible all these genin were actually faster then jonin/chuunin fodder.

Which was not done very well.

You arent even opposing my point. I say that avatarfodder has a good chance of winning of narutofodder based on their own feats.

My only point was this that close quarters naruto fodder could have great chance to blitz.

Anyway naruto fodder feats in the water and against Jubi has shown to be more than what the regular benders could have done.

Which is still nice because at least bender and ninja fodder can fight if they are given the opportunity.

Then you name named characters (some quite powerfull) and say that the fodder/chuunin should be atleast that strong because of rank.

I guess my argument does make it sound like that but my point is this simple.

Chunin and Jounin of fodder should at least be generally above the genin we saw back then in Part 1.

Why is this hard to believe? Why does this bother you?

You saw how Shikamaru and the gang who chased Sasuke and Gaara crap their pants when they realized 10 fodder chunin and jounin chased them.

Examples like rock lee(base)/genin > iruka/chuunin , And Hinata(feat wise)/chuunin > Ebisu/jonin come to mind.

We never even saw Ebisu fight. Also you are using poor example.
Ebisu is known to be a skilled trainer of ninja arts. So why are you using him?

What you are doing this you are taking this feat thing too strictly for your good.

but when grown(not even adult men) men can throw larger projectile nearly twice that distance i cant call it super human.

Something about this feat really seems to bother you doesn't it?

Its very superhuman clearly by 12 year old standards at least. Why

She can clearly compete with the grown men and women by your logic.

So in that case naruto blitzed mizuki

What are you talking about?

The chuunin exams isnt even about psycical feats like speed or strenght.

Its an accumulation. But Shikamaru's intelligence stood out far most.

while shikamaru having shown nothing psysically impressive passed the test and became chuunin before all of the k11.

He was fast enough to fight Tayuya and her summons later.
He could fight Temari and dodge needles from the Sound girl.


I get it. I don't have feats strictly for you. Which bothers you so much. But I am using more of a logical powerscaling within the manga bounds that seems very quite plausible.

[BMC1994]

Dont understand me wrong i do get your point as the whole shinobi system would be pathetic if genin could outdo most if not all jonin. But they just have shown so little that its hard for me to imagine them being on a higher level.

I guess your right being bend on feats in this case isnt really good for this situation.

Personally being forced out of abc logic being used into beginning into this feat-system kinda makes it hard for me to accept powersclaing logic even if it in cases such as these would be reasonable.

How would she compete with grown men which can throw larger proctile twice the distance she did?

Naruto in the first chapter interrupted mizukis attack before he could hit iruka/react.

But all the **** aside. I think that from a fair distance like 50 meters the benders have a good chance (as opposed to how much the avatar top tiers would get crushed by naruto top tiers).

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by Shisko Shi

Imo Naruto's world wins, but it could always go diffrent if their is a really good stratigy. I picked tie and I din't want that. I changed my mind.

Normally I am a huge proponent of the more intelligent fighter with a better battle strategy winning, but in this case the Avatarverse just plain loses, good strategy or not. The Narutoverse is so much more powerful than the Avatarverse that it would take not only the Avatarverse using a genius level-flawlessly coordinated and executed strategy, but all of the Narutoverse acting like complete idiots and not countering anything what so ever, which just isn't going to happen with the degree of coordination the nations have shown in the manga and the level of intelligence demonstrated by characters like Shikaku, Kabuto, etc.

[321zigzag3]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Dont understand me wrong i do get your point as the whole shinobi system would be pathetic if genin could outdo most if not all jonin. But they just have shown so little that its hard for me to imagine them being on a higher level.

Well if it makes you feel better fodder benders follow the same route.
But we are comparing them.

Personally being forced out of abc logic being used into beginning into this feat-system kinda makes it hard for me to accept powersclaing logic even if it in cases such as these would be reasonable.

Then lets take it slower shall we?

How would she compete with grown men which can throw larger proctile twice the distance she did?

Can they? Considering I haven't updated myself on this for a while.
Perhaps we can look at this together.

Naruto in the first chapter interrupted mizukis attack before he could hit iruka/react.

Well we don't know when Naruto moved but it does show he wasn't slow but speedy enough.

I know what you are going to say.
"How is this different from Hayate's situations?"

But all the **** aside. I think that from a fair distance like 50 meters the benders have a good chance (as opposed to how much the avatar top tiers would get crushed by naruto top tiers).

Benders do have the advantage at large distance especially with suitable element at their disposal.

[BMC1994]

I was comparing with javelin throwers. The best women could throw it 60-70 ish meters. Men 80-90ish

[321zigzag3]

There seems to be some differences.

First they were running to gain momentum.
Second they threw it up high to gain the farthest distance.
It still has strength all over it but they can't even pierce the grass field deeply let alone a trunk if they tried.

Its a javelin.

Now tell me if I make at least some type of decent criticism here.

Sakura threw a kunai casually.
It is in naruto chapter 49 pages 8-9

Speed and precision with strength to intercept Naruto and pierce the tree trunk.

Maybe peak humans in our world can do it. I don't know, I will have to check up on knife throwing.