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Old 12-25-2012, 11:45 PM   #81
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

I think calling a debate between two or more fictional characters as intelligent is wrong. What the old debates had was fun. Using Chapters and page numbers did somehow make claims more reasonable,but they were and still are based largely on the judgement of the participants in a thread.

Now on to my point. The battlegrounds themselves became less fun when users such as dudemiester started going in threads claiming speed blitz as an answer or the whole culture of, chibaku tensei gg, ruined the fun.
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12:11 PM So you enter the debate with full knowledge that you know nothing of worth on the subject, and then state you will not make an effort to learn. Way to be poster-boy for blight of the forum. Leave discussions of intelligence to those that have it.

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Old 12-26-2012, 03:05 AM   #82
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
wowo the Ao vs Neji thing is a TOTAL JOKE!!!!

Ao is FEATLESS he is all hype and that barley stands to what Neji has shown

People are wanking NEji SOOOO hard. And ppl are giving mere senteces on why he would win

Sorry US (uchiha Sora) for dealing with thier lameness
In a feat based system often not more then one sentence is needed when discussing vs a featless character. As long as it makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
I think calling a debate between two or more fictional characters as intelligent is wrong. What the old debates had was fun. Using Chapters and page numbers did somehow make claims more reasonable,but they were and still are based largely on the judgement of the participants in a thread.

Now on to my point. The battlegrounds themselves became less fun when users such as dudemiester started going in threads claiming speed blitz as an answer or the whole culture of, chibaku tensei gg, ruined the fun.
Isnt that more of the actual mangas fault. I mean lets say in a A vs Sakura thread , what else is there really to say except ''speedblitz GG''. Its simply the most logical outcome.

Same with attacks such as chibaku tensei. When discussing a character which already got taken out by for example gokyaku no jutsu (ok on one gets hit by that but its an example) and has no feats which imply even a possiblity of surviving chibaku tensei '''Chibaku tensei GG'' is pretty much everything there is to say.

Lines like those usually comes in debates where 1 character is clearly outmatched.

What i dont get is people claiming speedblitz when the difference is not significant enough. For example naruto vs A. Or minato vs A while there are speed differences they can still battle and react to each other.

------------------

Also debating is pretty opinion based. You will be always dealing with that.
Offcourse then you have to support that opinion with facts and reasoning(whcih is where things can go wrong) but in the end it will be based on opinion.

one guy (whos name i forgot) once put that nicely ''debating is not the art of being right, but the art of convincing that you are right.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:36 AM   #83
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
I think calling a debate between two or more fictional characters as intelligent is wrong. What the old debates had was fun. Using Chapters and page numbers did somehow make claims more reasonable,but they were and still are based largely on the judgement of the participants in a thread.

Now on to my point. The battlegrounds themselves became less fun when users such as dudemiester started going in threads claiming speed blitz as an answer or the whole culture of, chibaku tensei gg, ruined the fun.
Speedblitz is almost always one of the lamest arguments.

I agree about Chibaku Tensei, too. But that was at a time when Pain Arc ended. Everyone agreed Sage mode Naruto could not beat Pain alone, unless he had unlimited time in Sage mode. The only other character even close, was Jiraiya. So, in a way, Pain was considered the strongest character in Narutoverse. Of course, not counting those without feats or legends.

At that time, he actually was far beyond what others characters were capable of. Naturally, any thread in which Pain was included, was argued in favor of Pain. So, it ecame shortened because people had no interest to debate and just said: "Chibaku Tensei", even though that could sometimes be worse option, not to mention out of character.

In the Kage summit Arc, new high tier characters were introduced but none of them got enough feats or hype to consider them being capable of defeating Pain.

After that, when Naruto got in control of Kyuubi Chakra, he was considered powerful enough but not yet under control.

As War Arc began there were some higher tiers introduced capable of rivaling Pain.

Than Naruto went to battlefield. He has shown he can go into Sage mode almost instantly, which alone gives him the victory over Pain. And he even managed to use Rikudo mode and could control it. At that point it was obvious Naruto stomps Pain. And now even way more powerful characters were introduced.

Very little people now argue for Pain, so you rarely see someone just saying Chibaku Tensei wins!!!
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:12 AM   #84
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
I think calling a debate between two or more fictional characters as intelligent is wrong.
Don't know about you but you can make an intelligent discussion about at least most things.

Its just not everyone can do it. Or doesn't want to it.

In-verse fights like related to one verse fight is certainly heck more debatable

Multiversal is when things get sketchy.
The only way to get around that is feat-based system but its not perfect either. But its the best people have.

Anyway it won't stop people. Peope do it because they enjoy it or like it or such.

Also its wrong to you because you think its largely pointless. Which is fine.


Quote:
What the old debates had was fun. Using Chapters and page numbers did somehow make claims more reasonable,but they were and still are based largely on the judgement of the participants in a thread.
Goes for any debate. In the end of the day it really comes down to how reasonable can you present yourself.

To me this is more of a hobby anyway.

Quote:
Now on to my point. The battlegrounds themselves became less fun when users such as dudemiester started going in threads claiming speed blitz as an answer or the whole culture of, chibaku tensei gg, ruined the fun.

Dudemeister hasn't been here for many months now and he rarely has gone to Narutoverse even before year or so before.

Speedblitz was the old common used argument back in the day not so anymore.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:22 AM   #85
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

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Originally Posted by 321zigzag3 View Post
Don't know about you but you can make an intelligent discussion about at least most things.

Its just not everyone can do it. Or doesn't want to it.

In-verse fights like related to one verse fight is certainly heck more debatable

Multiversal is when things get sketchy.
The only way to get around that is feat-based system but its not perfect either. But its the best people have.
I think he hit it straight on the head.

There's no way to scale what powers would work on who in what verses because they're all different. The inconsistency is off the charts and half of the time it's just a bunch of moron losers debating what they THINK rather than cold hard facts.

This is what IWD is talking about, and that's why PoP was banned.
Does this mean I endorse the course of action he took? Not in the slightest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 321zigzag3 View Post
Anyway it won't stop people. Peope do it because they enjoy it or like it or such.

Also its wrong to you because you think its largely pointless. Which is fine.




Goes for any debate. In the end of the day it really comes down to how reasonable can you present yourself.

To me this is more of a hobby anyway.




Dudemeister hasn't been here for many months now and he rarely has gone to Narutoverse even before year or so before.

Speedblitz was the old common used argument back in the day not so anymore.
Speedblitz is just about the lamest excuse for the downfall of the BG.

The Battlegrounds actually became less fun when we had to start enforcing rules like this place is a concentration camp because even "veterans" can't acculturate to the algorithm we have here, and are otherwise unwilling to without the aid of some cold, hard punishment.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:40 AM   #86
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

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Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara View Post
I think he hit it straight on the head.
Still doesn't change what I said. You can still make an intelligent discussion about most things.
It also doesn't change the fact that "wrong" Bacon is quite somewhat relative too.

I will also say this. Bacon isn't wrong in the making of the valid point for countless cases but to say all of it is? No.

Quote:
There's no way to scale what powers would work on who in what verses because they're all different.
Obviously.

It's also that writers don't intend this to happen but they do have consistencies in what they think.

However, in the end its up to you.

Quote:
The inconsistency is off the charts and half of the time it's just a bunch of moron losers debating what they THINK rather than cold hard facts.
Which is why and I will say it again people who try to make an intelligent discussion often resort to a feat based system within context.

Because its the best thing people have.

Which is why in-verse battles will be easier to do than multiversal.

If you think its pointless, I could care honestly less.
To me its a hobby.



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Speedblitz is just about the lamest excuse for the downfall of the BG.
Easiest lamest excuse one could make.

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The Battlegrounds actually became less fun when we had to start enforcing rules like this place is a concentration camp because even "veterans" can't acculturate to the algorithm we have here, and are otherwise unwilling to without the aid of some cold, hard punishment.
BG is different and I have told this to IWD in the past. Forum "culture" is always different from each other.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:49 AM   #87
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

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How can one save something that has already been saved...?
Eternal vigilance is the price any body pays for peace, whether it's peace of mind, personal peace, peace between his loved ones, peace in a geopolitical context or just peace on an internet forum.

Life's a struggle it's merciless and the moment you become indolent you will be hit with a freight train and knocked down so hard you may never get up again

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Originally Posted by BoxHead View Post
Look, I haven't really BG'd much, and I only do it when I'm extra bored and am too tired of Off-Topic.

However, in my short time BGing I have noticed the trend of people saying their character will win just because they like the character or series or something. I've also seen lots of biased wanking, and I have to say, you BG mods have got more gusto then I'll have for a while because I can't deal with idiocy of that level for too long, let alone be in charge of it.
you and Dev should come by more often I think you guys are awesome posters and you seem to be fine mods

as to the opinion stuff I have been trying very hard to crack down on it..as a general rule Naruto and HST fans don't read house rules..and don't like debating based on facts..curbing that attitude goes hand in hand with curbing their preferences in fiction believe it or not.

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...get away from me... JK

Man, ever since PoP's section ban the BG has been a lot less active.
then go make it active! Have we become so apathetic and lazy that we must depend on one poor inexperienced kid to carry us?

No Wonder why PoP fought this so hard..the pressures all on him? How the hell is that fair..all of you have brains..all of you have the capacity to type..none of this should be happening

as to the culture discussion.. this place had an original and unique culture all of its own..that made it objectively worse than Moviecodec..that spurned larger forums to invade only to bully and make fun of the memberbase

simply put..the culture was subject to some..revisions..I don't think anyone regrets that

and my rules are not lovecraftian or nazi like..at all they are the same rules that Govern Naruto Forums, Killer Movies, Comic Book rumbles and Star Destroyer.net

the rules that have kept SDN and CBR alive for almost two thirty years in various forms..and the same system that has lead the obd and the rumbles section to create over a quarter of a million member strong parent forum

they're easy to follow and not abhorrent
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:58 AM   #88
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

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Originally Posted by The Immortal Watch Dog View Post
forcing tiers on everyone..forcing tier debaters to debate only those in their ranks..the fact that the last time Shika and the prior mods put posters in high tiers who were basically the worse posters I have ever seen on any vs forum and good debaters on a lower rank..for no apparent reason leads me to believe this is a bad idea

how about we delete all the other old rule threads..force everyone to read the house rules at least once..start gathering precedent with every debate and actually start enforcing the house standards

oh and..whenever we see a bad debater we jump him..I'm dead serious about my crusade idea..

nothing a good ass whooping can't cure
Hey now...
I was in high tier.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:14 PM   #89
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

yes you were

and so was that one girl that claimed jiraiya could Rasengan Mon El to death

one of these things is not like the other..one of these things just isn't the same
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:21 PM   #90
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

I have no clue why Frost was in the high tier.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:24 PM   #91
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

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Originally Posted by 321zigzag3 View Post
Multiversal is when things get sketchy.
The only way to get around that is feat-based system but its not perfect either. But its the best people have.
there actually is a better way than the strictly feat based system of going about multiversal discussion (unfortunately this more ideal style is not practiced in its honest, true, and skillful form all that prevalently...yet); however due to how widespread the strict feat based system is on some well known and longstanding debating sites, combined with how retarded it makes the opinionated "i like this guy so he wins" style that is common throughout much of the internet, well its not surprising that a strict feat based system would thrive. however it does get out of hand, especially with the pixel scaling, strict tier brackets and such, and various forms of strict numbers calculations. also things are commonly taken way out of context with the strict feats system, and respect threads that are often out of context and sometimes straight up biased can thrive. also the feat based system commonly mixes together things combat related, with things non-combat related, and often does not distinguish between things such as 'combat speed' and 'travel speed', or the difference between random weightlifting feats, and actual combat showings. oh and also the feat system tends to gawk at AOE far, far to much, and disregards all the other aspects of combat, but a quick example: which is more powerful, a hill busting attack from vegito, or a moon busting attack from raditz? but anyways the strict feat based system has plenty of flaws. oh and power scaling is trash, yet still gets way overdone. so that is by no means the alternative
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:59 PM   #92
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

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-snip-
Shouldn't you be banned?
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:30 PM   #93
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

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Shouldn't you be banned?
I regret to say..progress on removing this one has been painfully slow
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:33 PM   #94
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

Reverse Darwinism: Survival of the most idiotic.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:21 PM   #95
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

so it seems you are doubting the existence of a more ideal manner of looking at these sorts of things? and it goes beyond just multiversal discussion; as far as the way beings that look at things in the way that humans and such tend to look at things, a smoother method in its natural self seems ideal
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:55 AM   #96
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

Quote:
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so it seems you are doubting the existence of a more ideal manner of looking at these sorts of things? and it goes beyond just multiversal discussion; as far as the way beings that look at things in the way that humans and such tend to look at things, a smoother method in its natural self seems ideal

"It seems"? "As far as the way beings that look at things in a way that humans and such tend to look at things, a smoother method in it's natural self seems ideal." What? I don't even know what to say to what you just said.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:02 AM   #97
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

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well its not surprising that a strict feat based system would thrive. however it does get out of hand, especially with the pixel scaling, strict tier brackets and such, and various forms of strict numbers calculations.

The biggest offender is speed calculating. Now its not impossible but you shouldn't in general I think unless you really can back it up.


Quote:
but anyways the strict feat based system has plenty of flaws. oh and power scaling is trash, yet still gets way overdone. so that is by no means the alternative
Of course it has plenty of flaws but the other methods are subject to more abuse often.

Ideally calculations are nice but they show the same opinionated flaws as anything.

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Reverse Darwinism: Survival of the most idiotic.
That is kind of the case today.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:02 AM   #98
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

colorless is on every drug conceivable..just let it talk let it proselytize Obito

also Ziggy hit the nail on the head
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:53 AM   #99
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

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colorless is on every drug conceivable..just let it talk let it proselytize Obito

also Ziggy hit the nail on the head
that doesnt have anything to do with anything

what matters is that you are using (or at least pondering using) what others have done, against me in an attempt to discredit what i am bringing to the table

i gues thats why nothing really happens through words

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Old 12-31-2012, 04:20 PM   #100
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Default Re: Lowered the bar.

Actions prove louder than words. But people prefer words in general.

It's contradicting.


As for the feat based thing, what shall you do about it?.
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