Spoiler An OverView Of Naruto Villains/Kishi Writing in the Corner

[mrsticky005]

We're basically at the climax of this war (I hope so at least) and it's looking
like Kishimoto has written himself into a corner and getting out will be ugly.

Here's what I mean:


Many often cite Orochimaru as the first villain/antagonist in Naruto.

He wasn't.

Nine Tails was.

Nine Tails went from

Villain Antagonist (destroyed Konoha and is the obstacle to Naruto's goal)

to

Enemy Mine (still an obstacle but also the means to defeating itself)

to

Symbiotic Possession (Naruto and Nine Tails are opposed but have same goals which is defeating the bigger bad)

Fire Forged Friends

(Naruto and Nine Tails work together and respect one another)


Well that's fine and dandy since Naruto has basically proved himself top dog back when Kushina came to visit. So Naruto won and as a result
he has earned a Fire Forged Friend.

Next is

Mizuki

Mizuki was obviously short lived as a villain but that's kind of the point.

Mizuki wanted some magical forbidden scroll and blame it on Naruto.
In short his plan failed. This was one of the first steps to Naruto's goal
as it shows Naruto isn't a push over who just lets people walk over him.

Mizuki was a stepping stone to defeating the final villain.

Next is Gato/Kakuzu

One might think what about Zabuza? But remember that Gato/Kakuzu
was really the one in charge. Naruto defeats Gato via brainwashing Zabuza. This is one of the first Talk No Jutsu. Gato was an impersonal
villain as Naruto was literally just doing his job.

Zabuza was a stepping stone to defeating the final villain.

Next is Orochimaru and Itachi

This will probably bother a lot of people. But both Orochimaru and Itachi
have always been stepping stones to defeating the final villain. Why?

Orochimaru could never be the final villain since even from the very
beginning it was abundantly clear that there was someone stronger:

Itachi.

Now while you don't necessarily have to be the strongest to be the
final villain, it wouldn't do well for the final fight to be upstaged.

Speaking of which Itachi. Itachi can't be the final villain because
he was always more of Sasuke's villain. Arguably so is Orochimaru.

Neither was personal enough to be Naruto's final villain

Both are stepping stones to the inevitable rivalry and the final villain.

Akatsuki

Finally we get a personal villain for Naruto since Nine Tails and Mizuki.

Akatsuki wants to for the sake of simplicity kill Naruto and steal 9 tails.

Obviously that's a problem.

The questions is why? What is their goal? And who is in charge?

We get many false positives with that.

First being

The Akatsuki Leader (Pain)

Pain is a red herring in more ways than one. First off we only see him
as a hologram. Then we only see him as a corpse puppet. Finally
we see him as Nagato---a puppet of Tobi.

As the Akatsuki Leader he wanted Nine Tails. His goal? World Domination.

As Pain this would then turn into World Domination for the sake of peace.

Naruto defeats Pain by argument. Pain's idea of peace was wrong.

Pain accepts his defeat by redeeming himself and betraying Tobi.

Pain was a stepping stone to the final villain. A false positive
to finding out who the final villain was. And a Misunderstood Frenemy.

Next

Tobi=Madara

Tobi=Madara was the true leader of Akatsuki. He has plans of his own.
Tobi=Madara was the villain who ties Naruto and Sasuke's story together.
Tobi=Madara wants to manipulate Sasuke for his goal and killing Naruto is a means to that goal. Tobi=Madara's goal is world domination not for peace
but for the sake of proving Madara is the best and that Uchiha > Senju.
However this is all a false positive. Tobi isn't Madara and he doesn't
really care about the Uchiha Clan. He just wants to brain wash Sasuke.
Tobi's goal then becomes world domination for the sake of peace.
But again this is a false positive which I will discuss later.

Next Danzo

Danzo starts off as the quiet threat at home. He wants to take over
Konoha and is opposed to the will of fire. Since Naruto believes in
the will of fire there is a brewing ideological battle going on.
Danzo becomes Hokage but decides to broaden his horizons.
Danzo wants World Domination--for the sake of peace.
Danzo evolves into a Anti Hero and ends up sacrificing himself in vain
to stop the advent of Evil Sauce.

Danzo was a misunderstood Antagonist and a stepping stone for the final villain to hype itself.

Next is Kabuto Yakushi

Kabuto wants revenge against Naruto and Sasuke and he teams up with Tobi but has plans of his own. He is defeated by Itachi and Sasuke.

Kabuto starts off as Questionable Ally
goes to Traitor
then Sleeping with the Enemy
then Enemy Sidekick
then Double Agent

Kabuto could have been the final villain but he was more there to
make us wonder who's side he really was on. Unforunately Kishi
basically dropped the ball on that one and just had Itachi erase
him out of the story.

Evil Sauce

Starts off as the rival
becomes the jerk
then he is the macguffin
then he becomes The Dragon

it is unknown what will become of Sasuke yet.

Tobi=Obito

Tobi's true identity is revealed he is Obito Uchiha and his goal is revenge
for Rin. Yes he talks about peace and all that but face it the only reason
why he wants everyone to suffer despair is because of how Rin died.

Strangely enough while Obito is similar to Naruto he DOESN'T fit
as a personal villain. Obito is Kakashi's villain in their sorta secret past.

Obito is the Type 2 Antivillain: The Woobie Villain.

Obito is Naruto gone bad.

Is he the final villain?

Not anymore.

Why?

Because

Madara does Not Equal Tobi

The real Madara is Obito's boss. Now is Madara the final villain remains
unknown but he is one of the last candidates for the job. Madara
is a Well Intentioned Extremist. Remember that the Moon's Eye Plan
is his idea.

and then Sasuke

there's a small chance of him being the final villain but I doubt it.


So what's the matter?

The problem is that in spite of all the hype all of these characters
will end up not quite working as the final villain. Here's why.

Nine Tails is fire forged friend.

Mizuki is too weak.
Gato/Kakuzu is dead.
Orochimaru is too weak.
Itachi is too non-personal. Plus Itachi Twist.
Pain was a red herring.
Kabuto was the wild card
Danzo was misunderstood


Obito can't be the final villain because he is the Dragon.
Now while Obito could pull a Kefka it wouldn't work here
as Obito would lose his Woobie status.
Obito is a tragic antihero and will either have a heel face turn
and become good again (live or die) or he will be "the lesson".
Naruto is what happens when you follow the lesson Obito is when you
don't. The question is Obito past the point of no return

Madara could be the final villain and probably will be
but he is in a strange way severely underhyped.
No I don't mean power wise. But rather how all
we learned about him---90% was from an unreliable narrator: Obito.

When Tobi "was" Madara the Moon Eye Plan made sense.
It was all Tobi=Madara's scheme for World Domination for POWAH and
everything else was a distraction.

However with Tobi=Obito

We see that wasn't the case.

the real Madara wants World Domination for peace
but there really isn't much reason for us to believe that.
Yet at the same time there's no reason to believe it's just a ploy.

Madara is a reverse side kick. While he's in charge we're really focusing on Obito. Madara has basically fulfilled his role of fooling the audience
and now he's basically there to look intimidating.

Finally Sasuke

Sasuke was the Dragon

now he's the Dragon Gone Rogue

If Sasuke turns good then the hype was basically for nothing.
By that I mean this war. We're all wondering what is Sasuke going to do.
Sasuke says he wants to kill everyone (basically) but given Ten Tails
he's not really much of a threat anymore but more a nuisance.


What about Ten Tails? Could it be the final villain?

Hm. I suppose it could. But it would be getting into Captain Planet territory it seems. I don't exactly want a "NOOOO! IT'S OUTTA CONTROL. QUICK
WE MUST COMBINE OUR POWERS TO DEFEAT IT!!"

Actually I dunno if that ever happened in Captain Planet but it seems like it would.

Well if nothing else you should all have the Captain Planet theme song
stuck in your heads.

[PrinceofPeace]

This is long

[TastyRamen]

and pointless

[The Forgotten One]

I disagree with TastyRamen. Sticky makes some very good points. Looking at how you've broken it down, it just makes me even more sure that there will be at least one more major arc after the War.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by The Forgotten One

I disagree with TastyRamen. Sticky makes some very good points. Looking at how you've broken it down, it just makes me even more sure that there will be at least one more major arc after the War.

As much as I hate the idea it might be what Naruto needs.

But it depends on how Kishimoto plays it out.

[PrinceofPeace]

can you elaborate on the Kakazu/Gato thing. I did not know Kakazu was involved

[Jakropha]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

can you elaborate on the Kakazu/Gato thing. I did not know Kakazu was involved

Just roll with it

I didn't like how you only gave Danzo one paragraph.

The entire thing should be about Danzo.

Also, Juubi will be the final villain.

Soon, it will become God, and Obito=Zetsoom will be realized!
Obito will be the true mastermind, and he will reveal that his entire life was a ploy to release Zetsoom, the true prophet of Juubi!
And him and the Juubi shall make beautiful babies with the planet earth, and that's how the moon was born!

[Bacon]

Evenn though this is about naruto, it was a good and interesting summary of the story.
*Thought obito was tobi...........

[and17y1]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

....

one question bro: why are you wearing out for nothing.. its useless to write such huge textwalls for nothing. Well i understand its not for nothing u are a big fan probably and things arent going out for ya but face it this is the reality, there is no need to argue for such unimportant details. I dont want and mean to offend you but keep quiet and enjoy the.. "manga".

This is to all unsatisfied Naruto "fans".

Actually this is just an advice but i advise you its useless to wear out for nothing Do whatever you want Y PEACE Y

[WishfulFairie]

Madara better have something up his sleeve because I don't believe he want peace, one bit.
We need a final and awesome villain
We need more plot twists without getting plot holes

[BMC1994]

Just saying but pains goal wasnt world domination of any kind. It was creating peace thorugh fear for pain.(by rofl nuking every country who disagrees but still).

Danzo never aimed for world domination. Hes the typical 'its a dirty job but someone must do it' guy. He pretty much didnt care about anything but hiruzen and konoha.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

can you elaborate on the Kakazu/Gato thing. I did not know Kakazu was involved

^answers^

[paradigm1977]

I don't want to quote the OP, but I got how Kakuzu is meant to be Zabuza.

But what did I miss about "The dragon." Sasuke becomes "The dragon," and Obito "is the dragon."

is this an EMS power level reference you made up? Or is there something in the story I missed?

Anyway. Madara can't be the final villian because he is ash and offers very little personal conflict for the protagonists that is rooted in the past. His enemies are dead and he's just a powerful entity.

It is possible, though unlikely, that Sasuke is outsmarted by orochimaru and then Oro takes possession of his body.

Oro/Sasuke would have tons of tension for Naruto. EMS, high intelligence, vast knowledge of jutsu, and Naruto wants to save Sasuke.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

can you elaborate on the Kakazu/Gato thing. I did not know Kakazu was involved

I'd like to explain but top secret forum keep from doing so.

Originally Posted by Jakropha

Just roll with it

I didn't like how you only gave Danzo one paragraph.

The entire thing should be about Danzo.

Also, Juubi will be the final villain.

Soon, it will become God, and Obito=Zetsoom will be realized!
Obito will be the true mastermind, and he will reveal that his entire life was a ploy to release Zetsoom, the true prophet of Juubi!
And him and the Juubi shall make beautiful babies with the planet earth, and that's how the moon was born!

If you play the message backwards it is a chant to the glory of Danzo.

I hope you are right because as absurd as that all is it's sounding
a lot more entertaining than what we got thus far.

Originally Posted by Bacon

Evenn though this is about naruto, it was a good and interesting summary of the story.
*Thought obito was tobi...........

Obito is Tobi. But I said Tobi=Madara because before the reveal that
was our (false) reality. However it was not the actuality. The problem is
the false reality was better written than the actuality.

Originally Posted by and17y1

one question bro: why are you wearing out for nothing.. its useless to write such huge textwalls for nothing. Well i understand its not for nothing u are a big fan probably and things arent going out for ya but face it this is the reality, there is no need to argue for such unimportant details. I dont want and mean to offend you but keep quiet and enjoy the.. "manga".

This is to all unsatisfied Naruto "fans".

Actually this is just an advice but i advise you its useless to wear out for nothing Do whatever you want Y PEACE Y

I'm not wearing out. Writing huge wall of text is more of a bad habit for me. Unimportant details? Depends on your frame of reference. Because
I would say the final villain is pretty important story wise. Of course
with all the rumors this isn't the end maybe I'm jumping the gun.

Originally Posted by WishfulFairie

Madara better have something up his sleeve because I don't believe he want peace, one bit.
We need a final and awesome villain
We need more plot twists without getting plot holes

And yet that is the story we are being told...Kinda.

Actually am I the only one getting confused as to exactly WHAT
Kishimoto is trying to say?

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Just saying but pains goal wasnt world domination of any kind. It was creating peace thorugh fear for pain.(by rofl nuking every country who disagrees but still).

Danzo never aimed for world domination. Hes the typical 'its a dirty job but someone must do it' guy. He pretty much didnt care about anything but hiruzen and konoha.

No, both were world domination. Pain even said WORLD DOMINATION.
Then it was made more clear into the WORLD SHALL KNOW PAIN.

Danzo wanted world domination because it was his idea for the alliance.

Ok, they're not world domination in the sense of BOW BEFORE ME
but both of them are huge proponents of their own kind of social justice

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

^answers^

questions

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

I don't want to quote the OP, but I got how Kakuzu is meant to be Zabuza.

But what did I miss about "The dragon." Sasuke becomes "The dragon," and Obito "is the dragon."

is this an EMS power level reference you made up? Or is there something in the story I missed?

Anyway. Madara can't be the final villian because he is ash and offers very little personal conflict for the protagonists that is rooted in the past. His enemies are dead and he's just a powerful entity.

It is possible, though unlikely, that Sasuke is outsmarted by orochimaru and then Oro takes possession of his body.

Oro/Sasuke would have tons of tension for Naruto. EMS, high intelligence, vast knowledge of jutsu, and Naruto wants to save Sasuke.

Zabuza isn't Kakuzu. Gato is Kakuzu. Don't ask. Just know.

If you don't know what the dragon is go to tv tropes.com and look it up.

But in short it's like you have the big bad and then the guy actually
doing stuff who is the dragon. Before the Madara is dead reveal it was

Tobi=Madara is the Big Bad
Sasuke is the Dragon

now it's a bit more confusing because Madara (the real one) is the BIGGER Bad and Sasuke has gone rogue.

And yet right now he is.

Oro/Sasuke isn't happening. It would be cool. But it's not gonna happen.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Zabuza isn't Kakuzu. Gato is Kakuzu. Don't ask. Just know.

agree to disagree

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Oro/Sasuke isn't happening. It would be cool. But it's not gonna happen.

Yeah, it would be crazy. What ever Kishi decides, and it won't be this (he's not brave enough), it would make a great alternate final arc to naruto. Just in case the ending doesn't offer all the drama. Not saying better necessarily, but for some, darker and more enjoyable.

And Naruto fights Sasuke while saving him. Then Sasuke can soften up and thank Naruto for saving his life, and they are like brothers again, and hug and kiss.

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

If you don't know what the dragon is go to tv tropes.com and look it up.

But in short it's like you have the big bad and then the guy actually
doing stuff who is the dragon. Before the Madara is dead reveal it was

ok, I looked it up. I know now. And yes, Tobi is the dragon. But no Sasuke is not and will not be the dragon.

Dragon isn't just the next toughest antagonist in the story. The Dragon is essentially "#2" to the big bad. You have to be in the same crew to be a dragon, or at least, take direct orders from him in a non-crew.

Sasuke leads his own crew, so he is lateral to Tobi and akatsuki. Tobi told him what to do, but Sasuke teamed up for his benefit. He owes nothing and is not an employee or someone simply taking orders from the big bad, or in this case the official dragon of the story.

Sasuke has too much ego to take orders from anyone.

I read the related dragon tropes as well. A couple sound close to Sasuke's possible development, but you have to be a dragon at some point to fit any of them.

[LilHinataGirl]

I can agree it seems intentionally correct ... Hope Kishimoto thinks it thoroughly !

[PrinceofPeace]

So you really do not have an answer for the Kabuto/gato thing

[e710]

Zetsu can be the final villain.

[Wooster]

Silly Sticky, we all know the finally enemy will be Hidan's brain ala Metroid.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

agree to disagree



Yeah, it would be crazy. What ever Kishi decides, and it won't be this (he's not brave enough), it would make a great alternate final arc to naruto. Just in case the ending doesn't offer all the drama. Not saying better necessarily, but for some, darker and more enjoyable.

And Naruto fights Sasuke while saving him. Then Sasuke can soften up and thank Naruto for saving his life, and they are like brothers again, and hug and kiss.



ok, I looked it up. I know now. And yes, Tobi is the dragon. But no Sasuke is not and will not be the dragon.

Dragon isn't just the next toughest antagonist in the story. The Dragon is essentially "#2" to the big bad. You have to be in the same crew to be a dragon, or at least, take direct orders from him in a non-crew.

Sasuke leads his own crew, so he is lateral to Tobi and akatsuki. Tobi told him what to do, but Sasuke teamed up for his benefit. He owes nothing and is not an employee or someone simply taking orders from the big bad, or in this case the official dragon of the story.

Sasuke has too much ego to take orders from anyone.

I read the related dragon tropes as well. A couple sound close to Sasuke's possible development, but you have to be a dragon at some point to fit any of them.

Yeah I don't think Sasuke is the dragon now.
But he was shaping up to be in vol 44-51.
Since ego or not he was doing exactly as Tobi wanted.
But you're right though I'm not sure what to call Sasuke