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View Poll Results: Kurenai vs Tayuya
Kurenai 10 47.62%
Tayuya 11 52.38%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-21-2012, 09:33 AM   #221
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha Sora View Post
Please tell me how a genjutsu user can't break out of genjutsu?
I provided a list of genjutsu users who failed to break out of genjutsu
Especially when hers isn't so advanced that you have mental break downs like Itachis or Tayuyas. Genjutsu is controlling another persons chakra flow. You gonna tell me that she can control someone else's but not her own?
For some yes that is the case.... would Tayuya even know it is genjutsu?

Kurenais jutsu also took a long time to actually affect Itachi and Kisame.
so does summoning and for the summonings to react to sound. Plus Tayuya can not do anything while she dissapeared
Itachi was just standing there waiting for it to actually take effect on him. Kisame and Asuma had a little scuffle in between the activation of the jutsu and when it actually effected them. Kurenai also took her sweet time actually emerging from the tree
and how would Tayuya know it is genjutsu? Itachi did have knowledge on her afterall and the battle is in a forest.

All you have to do to escape Kurenai is bite your lip. Inflicting pain on yourself to escape is something Tayuya already knows about.

That is TOTALLY different. Not only was the jutsu's appearnce different but was Kabuto/tayuya who used the jutsu. Not to mention it was a bone flute and the BIGGEST difference is that Kabuto had SAGE CHAKRA enhancing the genjutsu

Oro and Kabuto and Kakashi use genjutsu but they have all falled to genjutsu

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Old 12-21-2012, 09:35 AM   #222
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
That is TOTALLY different. Not only was the jutsu's appearnce different but was Kabuto/tayuya who used the jutsu. Not to mention it was a bone flute and the BIGGEST difference is that Kabuto had SAGE CHAKRA enhancing the genjutsu
Proof that Sage Chakra enhanced anything, and proof that the bone flute made any difference, and proof that Kabuto using it made any difference.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:38 AM   #223
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

Quite funny how the Sound 4 are so underestimated.
They actually got some mad feats, best example would be Jirobo who is still one of the biggest powerhouses in the Manga.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:40 AM   #224
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

He basically squatted giant choji with one hand and then punched him into the air. Yeah.

And Tayuya was stated to be the second strongest member of the 4. Behind Sakon and Ukon. Not including Kimimaro.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:41 AM   #225
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

@Noctris
-sage chakra enhances all jutsu. Did you see the difference in power of Jiryria's hair and fire ninjutsu!!

I like Tayuya the best.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:46 AM   #226
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
@Noctris
-sage chakra enhances all jutsu. Did you see the difference in power of Jiryria's hair and fire ninjutsu!!

I like Tayuya the best.
So you're saying that you're basing this on logic. I don't recall it ever being stated that Kabuto's Sage Chakra enhanced any of his jutsu, especially any of the sound 4's.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:55 AM   #227
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

its on Narutopeida and most other websites... but just for you I will try to find the chp. the male toad sage even says so
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:01 AM   #228
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noctis Arashi View Post
I don't recall it ever being stated that Kabuto's Sage Chakra enhanced any of his jutsu, especially any of the sound 4's.
Kabuto's usage of Jirobo's doton was much stronger than the original one's usage.

Also Tayuya's genjutsu was strong enough to effect Itachi and Sasuke.

Considering their level, I am pretty sure it was enhanced.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:07 AM   #229
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

So this is an assumption based on logic, which is what I've been using for Tayuya time and time again, and was told by PoP that it wasn't valid.

But I see. I see indeed.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:10 AM   #230
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

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Originally Posted by Noctis Arashi View Post
So this is an assumption based on logic, which is what I've been using for Tayuya time and time again, and was told by PoP that it wasn't valid.

But I see. I see indeed.
Well I am not even sure why PoP is bringing in Kabuto in the first place.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:17 AM   #231
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

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I provided a list of genjutsu users who failed to break out of genjutsu
And I'm almost positive that all of those people fell to the same type of genjutsu. Sharingan genjutsu. the most powerful genjutsu in the entire series. Not the same as your everyday genjutsu.

Quote:
For some yes that is the case.... would Tayuya even know it is genjutsu?
A genjutsu user not recognizing genjutsu? Even Genin could do that. The only times people fail to recognize genjutsu is if they have no talent in the area, the genjutsu is very subtle, or it's Kotoammy.

Quote:
so does summoning and for the summonings to react to sound. Plus Tayuya can not do anything while she dissapeared
since when does it take long for them to react to the sound? It's been a long time, enlighten me.
I don't know what your saying in the second part.

Quote:
and how would Tayuya know it is genjutsu? Itachi did have knowledge on her afterall and the battle is in a forest.
she notices a change in her chakra flow? The fact kurenai disappears? Also I'm pretty sure they have basic knowledge of eachother by the default rules.

Quote:
That is TOTALLY different. Not only was the jutsu's appearnce different but was Kabuto/tayuya who used the jutsu. Not to mention it was a bone flute and the BIGGEST difference is that Kabuto had SAGE CHAKRA enhancing the genjutsu
Not really. He had to manifest Tayuya in order to use it. None of the other sound 5 jutsu seemed to be any different from before. And the appearance doesn't matter.. The image can be changed to whatever the user desires, the effect is the same regardless. Take tsukuyomi for example. Kakashi and Sasuke were shown different images but the effect was the same
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:20 AM   #232
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

He's saying when Kurenai goes invisible to get close to the opponent, she's completely invulnerable and can no longer hear sound.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:21 AM   #233
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

After thinking about this topic for a really long time, I'm finally all set on who's the winner; It's clearly Tayuya who I believed was the winner from the very start.

I take back what I said about dropping the assumptions in BG. You cannot simply go by facts to prove something. There has to be some logic in what you're stating; Tayuya CAN break out of genjutsu because she's a GENJUTSU USER and even specializes in it. Going only by logic might not make me the best debater, but I refuse to believe in something that doesn't make any sense.

And you're kind of a hypocrite PrinceofPeace, because you're telling the rest of us to drop our assumptions while YOU can't actually PROVE that Kurenai can break out of sound based genjutsu. You're simply ASSUMING that she can just because you've seen her breaking out of SIGHT based genjutsu, which is clearly not the same. I'm dropping this topic since you're clearly never going to give in anyway.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:24 AM   #234
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

@Sora

what about Bringer of Darkness? Hiruzen was caught in that genjutsu and could not break free. And hiruzen is supposed to know all of Konoha's jutsu which includes genjutsu. WIth Koto Itachi caught himeslf in genjutsu (Naruto's crow)
Pain/Nagato has genjutsu (mental blockades) but still fell to jriryia's genjutsu.

Again we assume that just cuz others knew it was genjutsu that Tayuya would... but in most of those cases the genjutsu was outrageous and unreasonable. Kurani uses forest based genjutsu which in a forest is not so unreasonable.

As soon as Tayuya plays her flute the summonings flinch before moving. What would Tayuya do when Kureani dissapeared?

Truth (about the default knowledge comment)

Overall it was stronger. I already gave the reference below.

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Old 12-21-2012, 12:05 PM   #235
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noctis Arashi View Post
So this is an assumption based on logic, which is what I've been using for Tayuya time and time again, and was told by PoP that it wasn't valid.

But I see. I see indeed.
Chapter 409 pg 11! LOOK IT UP NOCTRIS! I got yer proof. My man the toad sage says the truff

I'm not assuming bro you just had to give me time for me to find the right resources

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Old 12-21-2012, 12:17 PM   #236
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolerThanIce View Post
I take back what I said about dropping the assumptions in BG. You cannot simply go by facts to prove something. There has to be some logic in what you're stating; Tayuya CAN break out of genjutsu because she's a GENJUTSU USER
Just because you use genjutsu does not guarntee you will break out of it.
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Hiruzen master all konoha jutsu (so he had to have genjutsu) yet could not break out of Hashirama's genjutsu.

and even specializes in it.
Not really. She had to go into her strongest mode to use genjutsu. If she specialized in it she would be able to use it in any mode and it would have kept a nube chunnin in genjutsu.
Going only by logic might not make me the best debater, but I refuse to believe in something that doesn't make any sense.
Wow come on guys its not that far fetched

And you're kind of a hypocrite PrinceofPeace, because you're telling the rest of us to drop our assumptions while YOU can't actually PROVE that Kurenai can break out of sound based genjutsu.
lol im a hypocrite. SOUND GENJUTSU IS GENJUTSU!!!! There is no difference in breaking out of it. GENJUTSU IS GENJUTSU. There is no specific difference and releasing it.
You're simply ASSUMING that she can just because you've seen her breaking out of SIGHT based genjutsu, which is clearly not the same.
the only idfference is that one is visual and the other is hearing
I'm dropping this topic since you're clearly never going to give in anyway.
Not by this logic/proof. Especially when people do not know that it is the same thing on how to get on it.
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-not THAT close and Tayuya could not summon it THAT fast

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Old 12-21-2012, 01:19 PM   #237
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

PrinceofPeace: Neither does it guarantee that you can't break out of it.

Sound based and sight based genjutsu may be the same in essence, but they affect you differently which means that you've got to use different methods to break out of them. Breaking out of a genjutsu that travels through sound waves and one that makes you see things that aren't real are hardly the same.

You're also forgetting that Tayuya is a long range fighter. I never specified the distance because it was meant that they were going to run into each other in the forest. If Tayuya catches sight of Kurenai who doesn't sense her prescence, it's checkmate. Tayuya has time to prepare going into her strongest mode and can hide behind a tree while she uses her genjutsu.
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:35 PM   #238
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolerThanIce View Post
PrinceofPeace: Neither does it guarantee that you can't break out of it.
do you mean there is no guarntee taht Kureani can break out of sound genjutsu? Well lets not say sound cuz its genjutsu none the less. But Kureani has proven to break out of genjutsu. Also we are getting ahead of ourselves. Can you put up a sceniro where Tayuya would even bother to go CS2?

Sound based and sight based genjutsu may be the same in essence, but they affect you differently which means that you've got to use different methods to break out of them. Breaking out of a genjutsu that travels through sound waves and one that makes you see things that aren't real are hardly the same.
prove Tayyuya would make it that far to go CS2

You're also forgetting that Tayuya is a long range fighter.
Not really did you see my post #215 thread #11
I never specified the distance because it was meant that they were going to run into each other in the forest.
well you should say that... in essence this gives Kureani a BIGGER advantage since Kureani knows the area better plus the sound can not travel that far
If Tayuya catches sight of Kurenai who doesn't sense her prescence, it's checkmate.
That is a BIG IF
think about it! Tayuya would be found first. Due to the large summonings bashing around and the sound of her flute Tayuya would be EASY to find. Kureani knows the area better as well. And Tayuya may run into foreign animals or set off a trap. SO Kurenai would find Tayuya first and sneak up on her then use genjutsu on Tayuya
Tayuya has time to prepare going into sage mode(lol SM huh?) and can hide behind a tree while she uses her genjutsu.
OOC for Tayuya to hide and then use genjutsu.
If Tayuya does not know where Kureani is Tayuya is at a BIGGER disadvantage
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:58 PM   #239
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

Originally Posted by CoolerThanIce
PrinceofPeace: Neither does it guarantee that you can't break out of it.
do you mean there is no guarntee taht Kureani can break out of sound genjutsu? Well lets not say sound cuz its genjutsu none the less. But Kureani has proven to break out of genjutsu. Also we are getting ahead of ourselves. Can you put up a sceniro where Tayuya would even bother to go CS2? No, I meant that there's no guarantee that Tayuya CAN'T break out of genjutsu. You're assuming that she can't just because you haven't seen her doing it.

Sound based and sight based genjutsu may be the same in essence, but they affect you differently which means that you've got to use different methods to break out of them. Breaking out of a genjutsu that travels through sound waves and one that makes you see things that aren't real are hardly the same.
prove Tayyuya would make it that far to go CS2



You're also forgetting that Tayuya is a long range fighter.
Not really did you see my post #215 thread #11
I never specified the distance because it was meant that they were going to run into each other in the forest.
well you should say that... in essence this gives Kureani a BIGGER advantage since Kureani knows the area better plus the sound can not travel that far. And how would you know?
If Tayuya catches sight of Kurenai who doesn't sense her prescence, it's checkmate.
That is a BIG IF
think about it! Tayuya would be found first. Due to the large summonings bashing around and the sound of her flute Tayuya would be EASY to find. Kureani knows the area better as well. And Tayuya may run into foreign animals or set off a trap. SO Kurenai would find Tayuya first and sneak up on her then use genjutsu on Tayuya. That is also a BIG IF.
Tayuya has time to prepare going into sage mode(lol SM huh?) and can hide behind a tree while she uses her genjutsu. I meant STRONGEST MODE (jeez, excuse me for typing down one little mistake)
OOC for Tayuya to hide and then use genjutsu.

Just because she she acts like a fool doesn't mean that she's actually stupid.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:03 PM   #240
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Default Re: Kurenai vs Tayuya

Okay... but most likey she would not be able to.
Prove she would know its genjutsu

How would I know what?
-she participated in the FOD
-she was a jonnin who watched ovet the FOD
-she is from the land of where the animals live in the FOD
-her students used the animals to their advantage
-the sound and bashing is simple logic

what if? that she would get caught or.....

Naw it was just funny

but that is her character. Not a fool but Overconfident
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