Right to bear arms

[Maruko]

The right to bear arms? You need a right? I better cut my arms off before the cops show up!

I don't know...I don't like guns at all. :/
I like cold weapons more!

[Hakuren]

The world is overpopulated anyway.

All in a serious note: It all depends on the reasoning to bear weapons. Hunting to tone down the population - fine. Sell to strangers for money - no. I could say much more, but I think that is enough.

[TRcommander]

Originally Posted by ObitoUchiha

Yes, this is because of the School Shooting but it has made me think.

Who should be allowed to have guns, and where?

While putting a bunch of guns in schools may seem idiotic, I understand it. I mean, it's not like they are saying, 'Teachers, at the start of each school day, give each kid this loaded pistol, and if....' no.

They are telling teachers that they are allowed to conceal weapons on their person in case of emergency. Children will not be allowed to bring guns, for that would truly be dumb.

I think giving guns to teachers is a terrible idea.

1. How do you know the teacher is responsible enough for that? When I was in middle school, I had a teacher throw a chair at a girl in my class for whispering ~20 minutes after he said not to talk because he had a headache. Luckily it didn't hit her, but I would hate to think of a person like that having access to a gun. Even things like psychiatric exams aren't going to be enough because it's entirely possible for someone to simply reach their breaking point from having one bad class or even a single student that tears away their patience.

2. As a student, I don't think I could ever be comfortable having a reasonable debate or raising an important issue with a teacher knowing that they have a gun sitting right there if they disagree. That would pretty much silence any intellectual discussions.

3. Where is the gun going to be put? If it's locked away somewhere secure then that's not going to be a bit of help when someone barges into the classroom with a weapon. But if it's not locked up then what's keeping a student from simply grabbing it themselves? Or even if it is locked up, a student might still be able to get to it. I know the computer passwords for about half the teachers at the high school I went to from watching them type it over and over again. Watching them open a combination lock or seeing where they keep a key wouldn't be any different. As far as I can tell, a gun in the classroom is either going to be useless or just make it easier for students to get ahold of it.

But let's think on a wider scale. Why not just outlaw guns? Why not stop making guns, and then nothing can happen, right? Well... two things.

One, hunters will be distraught and wouldn't allow this to happen. And if shotguns are allowed, well... crime scenes will be messy.

Hunters can use other weapons.

Two, and much more importantly... think. Who causes crimes, mass killings, etc. Are they your average joe, law abiding citizen performing his/her civic duty to follow the law? No. Outlaws. Think bank robbers, murders, etc. If you outlaw guns, will criminals walk up and freely give their guns to the government?

Yeah, no.

Most crimes aren't premeditated, they're called 'crimes of passion.' If people didn't have weapons in these situations then that would probably go a long way in reducing fatalities. And say a guy walks into a place with a gun, and then several people pull a gun on that guy......if you're a police officer, how do you distinguish between the criminal and the people defending themselves? For that matter, in all that confusion, how would you distinguish them? And what if there's another shooter already in the crowd? How do you tell them apart from everyone else? What happens when several people with guns all start to panic and fight for their lives?

Originally Posted by Hakuren

The world is overpopulated anyway.

All in a serious note: It all depends on the reasoning to bear weapons. Hunting to tone down the population - fine. Sell to strangers for money - no. I could say much more, but I think that is enough.

Besides the lack humor I find in this, it's not true anyways. Overpopulation just came up recently in a different debate, so I'll just copypasta.

Originally Posted by TRcommander

As IWD pointed out, the world is far from being in danger of overpopulation, though I don't think we need to be purposely producing more offspring either. But as it stands, we have more than enough resources to provide every person in the world with the food and water they need to live comfortably. The real problem is a matter of proper distribution and waste. For example, the U.S. currently throws away about 40% of the food it produces. Most other countries have similar problems as well. So it's not a matter of there being too many people for our resources, it's a matter of the resources literally ending up in the garbage instead of where they need to be.

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

The way I see it, taking them off the streets isn't the bad thing. The problem is, who will have them if we do? I hate guns and I think society is detestable. I think any act of violence out of anger or vengeance is detestable. Guns are dangerous, any weapon that can commit such an atrocious act is dangerous. When you put them in the hands of the degenerate vermin of society, they just become more dangerous.

People should be able to go to school, relax at home, go to work and basically just live, without the constant threat of being murdered at any time on any day. These children's families should not have to go through the pain of losing their children. It pains me to know that any act such as this happens at all.

Humans are selfish creatures, weapons are dangerous. Put the two together and you cross all sorts of problems. The people who commit these acts should not be killed. Death would be a sweet release. Instead, they should be forced to experience the same pain as that of the family and friends who mourn for the loss of their loved ones day after day.

The difficulty of the situation begins with the case of what is deserved versus the results of a decision. I would be glad to say to everyone that weapons are cancer on society or that people should be able to feel safe as they go about daily activities. Will it really take guns off the street though? Will it just make things even more dangerous than they already are?

I for one have lost any faith in society I ever had. Each of these heartless acts that I have heard about over the years have infuriated me boundlessly. I can trust certain people, but society as a whole is filled with these insolent buffoons who have no regard for anyone's life except their own. The tricky part is devising a solution which will be beneficial to society. I liked the idea of having military men at the schools. In the end though, is there a way to benefit society or will one decision make something worse? Decisions, decisions.

C'est la vie.

[Bacon]

Guns are already an integral part of American society like booze and cigarettes. Even if you take away guns from the whole, there's still going to be people who have them/smuggling them in. I'm not saying it's a good thing to have guns,but it's sort of an irreversible problem without taking some serious risks and a huge undertaking.

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

Originally Posted by Bacon

Guns are already an integral part of American society like booze and cigarettes. Even if you take away guns from the whole, there's still going to be people who have them/smuggling them in. I'm not saying it's a good thing to have guns,but it's sort of an irreversible problem without taking some serious risks and a huge undertaking.

My thoughts bring me to the same conclusion. It also makes me wonder how the rest of the world would react if we did.

[Devils Lawyer]

Humans are nothing but intelligent animals. Like the lion violence is in our nature. The difference is we can go beyond just killing for food. The more we learn the more dangerous we got. Guns are just a tool that increased our killing rate. We were slaughtering each other way before it's birth.

[Cloukora]

First off, to those saying it was a dumb right, no it's not. Our forefathers knew that having guns meant we could defend ourselves from a tyrannical government. When they gave it to us, they knew that they helped in the war against the British, and in case the US did what the British had done, we would need something to fight back with. Without guns, and if the government wanted to, they could send soldiers to come into our houses and just kill us all. Of course OUR soldiers would never do that, they'd have to hire mercenaries, but you get my point. I even think it's stated in the Amendment the reason behind it.

Now, my opinion. Banning guns is a bad idea, as well as pointless. As people have said, it's not going to take away the guns from criminals. The only thing keeping criminals from killing everyone, is the possibility their target has a gun. Take away that possibility then what? Criminals now have NO reason to not kill them. So, yes, I agree we should be allowed to carry concealed weapons (in fact I've recently been thinking about trying to get a permit).

I do think the person's mental state needs to be considered when they purchase a gun. They already do background checks, so. I did find out that background checks aren't done at gun shows, that should also be done, as well as the mental state.

Now for those saying they should only be in the hands of police and soldiers, what makes them different from citizens? Training? Yes, that helps, but they still make mistakes at times. You also have dirty cops and cops that end up shooting someone they weren't supposed to. Soldiers and cops are still human, and can still be corrupted and mess up. Plus, if someone breaks into your house, by the time the police arrive (if you even manage to call) you're probably dead.

My biggest point is this: Even if we could magically smelt or destroy EVERY single gun in the world, then what? We still have swords, knives, bows and arrows, and other weapons. Weapons that could be made out of household items! You could kill someone with a lamp for crying out loud! If you ban guns, might as well ban knives and swords.
But then it all boils down to a government takeover. Now you have nothing to defend yourself and fight, thus becoming a slave or dead.

[e710]

It is a lot easier to kill a person with a gun than a lamp. Guns are made to kill lamps are made to light up places. Personally I believe no one except law enforcement should have guns. You don't have to go to a market to buy a gun, you could get it underground. If people to want to have guns than I believe the government should know where they are, what there doing, and what they need it for.

[Twilit Lion (Leo)]

Well, here's my view. I really think guns are too much for the public to handle, but the public views guns too highly. If we outlaw them, they'd complain we were corrupt and they would not be able to defend themselves if we were corrupted. Besides, outlawing guns would only make the situation worst. People smuggle drugs into the country, what says they won't do the same with weapons? Nothing, therefore the desperate ones will still posses a firearm while the some-what innocent ones lose their protection. Everything would just be too much for anyone to handle. The solution? Just deal with human corruption. By the way, how many other children die a day in other countries? Because of our government even? Just putting that out there.

[Crair Uchiha]

Despite me thinking it would be better with self defense, I have to say no. Because everyone can go off the cliff and start a mass murder then.

[Shisko Shi]

Originally Posted by ObitoUchiha

Aha.

This brings me back to the, 'criminals wouldn't follow the rules' category.

Criminals/ Wannabe criminals would simply lie and say they do not own a gun, and would only buy a new one with stolen credit cards/ licences.

Also, there would not be a way to make a law for who to sell a gun to in that manner. You couldn't make a law stating, 'Only clean shaven men who look professional may buy a gun,' as that view may vary between people.

Now, if you were to say that guns may only be sold to those with a clean criminal record, that would be better, but not good enough. Then you would just have many people buying guns and handing them off to friends or being threatened to buy guns for those who wish to use them for harmful intent.

What I mean is they should have anual theraby and the guy and test them to make sure they still can. Other wise it wouldn't matter because ofthe Black Market. Like Cuban Cigars they are illigal but I know people who have it.

[Ninja of Cao]

The right to bear arms in any country that is barbaric enough to enable such a law, is responsible for more than half of all murders. There is no way to defend a right to bear arms, and if you are about to say "we need to defend ourselves against criminals", then answer this: why are criminals dangerous? Because it is legal for them to have guns. I am happy to live in a country that has understood this and completely prohibited the ownership of guns, as it should be everywhere. If you don't have a gun, any criminal won't have a gun either. And if you're still scared, then learn martial arts: guns must be forbidden in every country, as soon as possible, so that no more innocent lives will be lost. It saddens me that some people can still not understand this.

[Shisko Shi]

Well of course you have the right to Bear Arms, Mine are on my wall.I have to brush the coat though every day.

[Jinchiruuki]

Originally Posted by Souret

I'm slightly torn on this topic, I think people like police officials should be able to carry guns. But normal citezens carrying guns seems like an risk we don't need to take. The harder guns are to get hold of the safer people are. Then again I'm not anti-hunting so long as you have qualifications and permission.

Police officials? So in other words you wish to empower the already power hungry government and it's police? Think about it, if you disarm the citizenry, we would be in an official police state, similar to that seen in V for Vendetta.

Originally Posted by megabbaut

I always thought this was a stupid amendment TBH. The only people who should be in possession of a gun are the police, and even then guns shouldn't exist at all because they just make it easier for one person to kill another.

Read my above. Saying guns shouldn't exist is something I agree with, but as long as there are governments and military/agency bodies, guns will exist. Saying we should amp up the arms used by our police is absolute nonsense. SWAT teams are armed like a Navy SEAL squads. If you want to live in a police state then sure go for it, but I for one refuse.

Originally Posted by Shisko Shi

Well This is hard for me to think of, but I say yes. but make it more stricked. YOu own a gun you must have yearly or monthly siciatric apointments to make sure they are stable enought to even have one. I mean would you sell a gun to a guy with heavy clothing a face that looks like he hasn't shaved in a wile but with the look like somthing had been bothering him? You woulnd't now if something was unless a profesional looked him/her over imo. could be wrong through.

Making laws more strict will do nothing except hurt the law abiding citizen who is exercising his or her 2nd amendment right.

Do you all really think criminals will adhere to these laws and rules? No. Hence the issue we've had for decades.

How about you all check this out:


http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/n...n/index_1.html

Due to armed CITIZENS, that piece of sh!t was stopped from murdering more people.

Or how about this? : http://www.theblaze.com/stories/14-y...gs-in-phoenix/

By taking our guns away, you not only invite burglars, rapists, and serial killers into your home, you also invite the tyrannical government to hold all sovereign over you and your loved ones. Wake up.

Originally Posted by Bacon

Guns are already an integral part of American society like booze and cigarettes. Even if you take away guns from the whole, there's still going to be people who have them/smuggling them in. I'm not saying it's a good thing to have guns,but it's sort of an irreversible problem without taking some serious risks and a huge undertaking.

The first undertaking would be rebuilding our government. Which who knows if that will ever happen.

[Shikamaru Nara]

The fact of the matter is that as long as guns are being manufactured, people are going to be obtaining them regardless of legal permits.

This would probably brush the side of Prohibition, because it's the first thing that came to mind. If you take away someone's "protection," and people who are trying to hurt them still have guns, you're making the situation worse than before. There are gun dealers, and regardless of whether or not people are allowed to even make them in the US, there is a black market, and if I recall correctly, guns, drugs and animals are at the top of the list for the size of the market.

However, I don't agree with the idea of having school teachers have guns in school. The only people who should have guns in schools are security guards and cops. I don't believe that there is a need to have a gun for a teacher if there is discussion of outlawing guns...

[Jinchiruuki]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

However, I don't agree with the idea of having school teachers have guns in school. The only people who should have guns in schools are security guards and cops. I don't believe that there is a need to have a gun for a teacher if there is discussion of outlawing guns...

If a teacher having a gun means stopping a massacre of 20+ rugrats then I am all for it.

Again, stop putting your absolute trust in cops. It takes a minimum of 15 minutes for a cop to get to a location for a call. A lot can happen in that time. Not to mention there are cops who abuse their power just like those who sit in political seats.

People need to realize they can take care of themselves rather than rely on someone else especially the government. The sooner we as a country do that, the better off we are.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Originally Posted by Jinchiruuki

If a teacher having a gun means stopping a massacre of 20+ rugrats then I am all for it.

Again, stop putting your absolute trust in cops. It takes a minimum of 15 minutes for a cop to get to a location for a call. A lot can happen in that time. Not to mention there are cops who abuse their power just like those who sit in political seats.

People need to realize they can take care of themselves rather than rely on someone else especially the government. The sooner we as a country do that, the better off we are.

How the hell is it smart to let people have guns in a school when someone just came and shot up that school? God forbid a kid sees the gun. I'm sure that would go over like a ton of freaking bricks.

I meant security guards/cops that are in the school. Although I have a relatively big school with over 2k kids, so it's a possibility that it's just my school and that's not a normal thing. And you don't think that some teachers would also abuse their power if they had guns? There's a reason why there are "No Weapons" rules in schools.

I'm completely in agreement with your last statement, because in my opinion, the government is still corrupt and full of shit.

[Cyl]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

How the hell is it smart to let people have guns in a school when someone just came and shot up that school? God forbid a kid sees the gun. I'm sure that would go over like a ton of freaking bricks.

I meant security guards/cops that are in the school. Although I have a relatively big school with over 2k kids, so it's a possibility that it's just my school and that's not a normal thing. And you don't think that some teachers would also abuse their power if they had guns? There's a reason why there are "No Weapons" rules in schools.

I'm completely in agreement with your last statement, because in my opinion, the government is still corrupt and full of shit.

I know plenty of Highschools in Chicago with security and cops in them...including my own.

[joon61]

Guns are used by cowards or people who simply cannot get their way. The best thing to use in self-defense,is your fists. What i don't understand is,why are guns still in this world if the law forbids you to have them?