young obito vs young naruto???

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Heji Oka

One thing current obito was severly outclassing naruto, kakshi, guy and bee until kakashi figured out his secret and even then was still out classing naruto so your point there makes no sense.
i am saying he did not use taijutsu. All tobi did was spam kaumi.... Toni did not do much but was just stalling
Also as shown in chapter 502 page 10 Minato also commented on how he was able to dodge his attack. Also as shown that minato during the fight minato was only able to catch him with FTG version 2. Now since you need that to catch him how will naruto since naruto is nowhere near that fast.
by his barrage of attacks. The clones keep attacking so he does not need to be fast. Plus tobi can not attack in his position

Also it shows in chapter 500 page 13 to 14 that he had enough skill to kill the anbu assigned to protect kushina and minato during her pregnacny so that alone shows he has enogh skill to actually kill naruto.

thatt is hype and obi took them by surprise they were fodder ninja. Naruto is stronger by feats

[Heji Oka]

No it is not hype though we don't see how he killed them it still shows that he killed them.

While we can speculate how strong they may have been anbu by definition are stronger that jonin class ninja and are known as the elite so rather or not they were extremely powerful is debatable hower it doen't change the fact that on chapter 500 pages 13 to 14 it shows obito killing them which means he has enough force to do so.

Also remember naruto's fighting style for your plan to work he would have to continously send in his clones but that isn't how he fights he sends in a group out of his clones and wait's till they are destroyed before sending another group so IC Naruto would be able to pressure Obito since the number being sent in can easily be dodged then destroyed.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Heji Oka

No it is not hype though we don't see how he killed them it still shows that he killed them.
it is hype
-we did not see it
-we do not know their abilities
-naruto can make more clones than there were anbu
-tobi took them by surprise


While we can speculate(you mean ASSUME!! WHich is not allowed in BG)
how strong they may have been anbu by definition are stronger that jonin class ninja and are known as the elite so rather or not they were extremely powerful is debatable hower it doen't change the fact that on chapter 500 pages 13 to 14 it shows obito killing them which means he has enough force to do so.
so how does he fight the bunches of naruto clones?

Also remember naruto's fighting style for your plan to work he would have to continously send in his clones but that isn't how he fights he sends in a group out of his clones and wait's till they are destroyed before sending another group so IC Naruto would be able to pressure Obito since the number being sent in can easily be dodged then destroyed.

and with what feats how will Obito destroyed the clones

*IC for OBito to warp one of them away and if he does that the clones would not be destroyed and can attack him in Kaumiland*

[Heji Oka]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

and with what feats how will Obito destroyed the clones

*IC for OBito to warp one of them away and if he does that the clones would not be destroyed and can attack him in Kaumiland*

No it is not hype, hashirama sealing all the demons is hype, hashirama using advent flower world or wood dragon is hype, kakashi having over a thousand jutsu is hype, guy being able to open all eight gates is hype these are all hype because they have been said to do this yet have never shown proof.

this situation is different you only keep this up because you know I'm right in chapter 500 page 13 though we don't see the killing process we see as evidence not hype that obito killed them when you see him taking his hand from one of their necks. Second he couldn't catch them all by surprise you can tell that by the placement of all of their bodies so no he couldn't catch them all by surprise because that would mean getting them all at once which if you want to argue still shows great skill.

Next while we may not know their abilities it doesn't change the fact that they were anbu, ninja trusted with the task of protecting the hokage no matter how you want to down play them you can't be an anbu without some skill, kakashi and itachi are prime examples of that. Does it mean the anbu are on their level no it doesn't but it does show that not any average ninja can be anbu.

So yes you would have to count it as IC for obito to kill since he has done it already. Next even if you want to argue that obito wouldn't touch naruto he doesn't need to thanks to his MS and speed and react feat he can simply dodge them all till naruto runs out of chakra, with no chakra to sustain the clone they will disperse leaving only the real one to be kamui'd away.

In order for naruto to have a chance he has to be fast as or faster than minato since we know he isn't please explain with the battle starting off at the default 50 meters will naruto catch him in this situation.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Heji Oka

No it is not hype, hashirama sealing all the demons is hype, hashirama using advent flower world or wood dragon is hype, kakashi having over a thousand jutsu is hype, guy being able to open all eight gates is hype these are all hype because they have been said to do this yet have never shown proof.
your right not hype. But what obito and HASHIRAMA have in common is that it was not shown how he did it. So we can not debate about it. It's useless. We don't know ANYTHING about the ANBU!!

this situation is different you only keep this up because you know I'm right in chapter 500 page 13 though we don't see the killing process we see as evidence not hype that obito killed them when you see him taking his hand from one of their necks. Second he couldn't catch them all by surprise you can tell that by the placement of all of their bodies so no he couldn't catch them all by surprise because that would mean getting them all at once which if you want to argue still shows great skill.
i most certainly do not think ur right. I will not admit defeat on something off-screen! Big deal obito beat featless ninja. Naruto can make more clones then there were ANBU. And it was by surprise. If it was not then why would the ANBU could have yelled to warn minato.

Next while we may not know their abilities it doesn't change the fact that they were anbu, ninja trusted with the task of protecting the hokage no matter how you want to down play them you can't be an anbu without some skill, kakashi and itachi are prime examples of that. Does it mean the anbu are on their level no it doesn't but it does show that not any average ninja can be anbu.
so how does that feat show how he beats naruto's clones

So yes you would have to count it as IC for obito to kill since he has done it already. Next even if you want to argue that obito wouldn't touch naruto he doesn't need to thanks to his MS and speed and react feat he can simply dodge them all till naruto runs out of chakra, with no chakra to sustain the clone they will disperse leaving only the real one to be kamui'd away.
[B]since when has narruto run out of chAkra to maintain clones. both are capable to kill. base tobi has not shown the speed to run away[\B]

In order for naruto to have a chance he has to be fast as or faster than minato since we know he isn't please explain with the battle starting off at the default 50 meters will naruto catch him in this situation.

How does obito harm naruto when bunches of clones are attackig

[Heji Oka]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

How does obito harm naruto when bunches of clones are attackig

No its not the same for hashirama unlike obito there is no evidence whatsoever, for obito you have that he is standing there after removing his hand from one of their throats showing proof that he can kill anbu level ninja.

As shown in the manga naruto's chakra and stamina while high is not limitless and his clones have never shown any intelligence to be able to deal with an ability like obito. Unlike naruto who has gotten tired from fighting obito has never shown signs of fatigue in using MS so he would just have to time his ability and attacks on the clones until naruto is tired since there is no way for naruto to touch obito. To say naruto in part 1 can touch obito is like saying that he can touch minato who admitted that obito's space time jutsu was more advanced than his.

[Shisko Shi]

So Obito could kill naruto whenhe is in Tail form like when he fought sasuke?

[Heji Oka]

Originally Posted by Shisko Shi

So Obito could kill naruto whenhe is in Tail form like when he fought sasuke?

Honestly no I don't think he could since the cloak seemed to move on its own, but there are requirements for naruto to reach that point which are not present in this match.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Heji Oka

No its not the same for hashirama unlike obito there is no evidence whatsoever, for obito you have that he is standing there after removing his hand from one of their throats showing proof that he can kill anbu level ninja.

As shown in the manga naruto's chakra and stamina while high is not limitless and his clones have never shown any intelligence to be able to deal with an ability like obito. Unlike naruto who has gotten tired from fighting obito has never shown signs of fatigue in using MS so he would just have to time his ability and attacks on the clones until naruto is tired since there is no way for naruto to touch obito. To say naruto in part 1 can touch obito is like saying that he can touch minato who admitted that obito's space time jutsu was more advanced than his.

tell me how Naruto loses in the battle. How do you see it going down

[Heji Oka]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

tell me how Naruto loses in the battle. How do you see it going down

Simple naruto would be kamui'd instantly ending the match

I have two scenarios for you

1. Since it is shown that in the manga naruto needs to be kn1 naruto to create a massive amount of clones this wouldn't happen since obito would have to enraged or make naruto upset to the point to turn kn1.
So without Kn1 naruto he can at best make up to 30 clones which wouldn't be enough since sasuke was able to take on the KN1 clones with only three tomoe while obito has MS and his battle ability and speed from the fight with minato.

So in the end he would destroy each of the clones with ease since its never been shown that it takes much force to destroy his clones then he would kamui the real one away.

Now I know what you are thinking what if naruto used the clone as a feint like he always does this is still countered by obito's speed and will still result in him kamuing naruto.

2nd scenario that naruto starts out kn1 naruto as shown from his 3 out of 4 times being kn1 naruto he still wouldn't start off using shadow clones as shown in the fight vs neji, haku, and sasuke so this would result in kn1 naruto charging obito since obito has MS and speed faster that kn1 naruto he would be able to dodge then kamui naruto.

heck even a 3rd scenario lets say it starts off in one tail naruto it would start with naruto trying to hit obito with his extending arms which are dodged thanks to obitos speed then you have naruto trying to circle obito to attack with the arms at a closer range but still being ineffective resulting in naruto using the giant arm and obito phasing through it, he then appears behind naruto thanks to his teleporting and kamuis him since naruto has never shown the feat to sense people or to having quick enough reactions to that type of technique.

In the end naruto loses no matter the scenario.

[megabbaut]

Originally Posted by Heji Oka

1. Since it is shown that in the manga naruto needs to be kn1 naruto to create a massive amount of clones

Nooo. This is not true at all. In the first chapter Naruto made a massive amount of clones against Mizuki . And again in the second chapter against Ebisu. Both instances were from waaay early PTS Not to mention it was completely without the help of the Kyuubi.

[Heji Oka]

Originally Posted by megabbaut

Nooo. This is not true at all. In the first chapter Naruto made a massive amount of clones against Mizuki . And again in the second chapter against Ebisu. Both instances were from waaay early PTS Not to mention it was completely without the help of the Kyuubi.

True however lets take these instances of clones in consideration to naruto creating that large of amount in the series without nine tail chakra. The fight vs haku, escaping from the snake in the forest, using clones to fight the genjutsu clones in the forest, his fight with kiba, his fight vs neji and his fight vs sasuke on the roof. Each of these times its shown IC naruto doesn't summon that many clones. Even if you wish to exclude the kiba incident this still leaves naruto 2 out of 7 that hes summoned that large amount of clones in a fight without nine tail chakra, still leaving that him summoning that many would be OOC. Heck I'll even give you the fight vs gaara where he used his ninja handbook techniques, but that still only makes it 3 out of 8 times still leaving it OOC character to do this in general battles without nine tail chakra.

If we were to take account the times naruto summoned that large of amount of clones without being emotionally stressed or emotional about the situation that would leave him with only 1 out of 8 times. Since it would be the time with ebisu unfortunately the emotional factors that allowed him to do it those times without nine tails chakra are not present here

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Heji Oka

True however lets take these instances of clones in consideration to naruto creating that large of amount in the series without nine tail chakra. The fight vs haku, escaping from the snake in the forest, using clones to fight the genjutsu clones in the forest, his fight with kiba, his fight vs neji and his fight vs sasuke on the roof. Each of these times its shown IC naruto doesn't summon that many clones.
those are MORE than enough to take out Obito
Even if you wish to exclude the kiba incident this still leaves naruto 2 out of 7 that hes summoned that large amount of clones in a fight without nine tail chakra, still leaving that him summoning that many would be OOC. Heck I'll even give you the fight vs gaara where he used his ninja handbook techniques, but that still only makes it 3 out of 8 times still leaving it OOC character to do this in general battles without nine tail chakra.

If we were to take account the times naruto summoned that large of amount of clones without being emotionally stressed or emotional about the situation that would leave him with only 1 out of 8 times. Since it would be the time with ebisu unfortunately the emotional factors that allowed him to do it those times without nine tails chakra are not present here

How does Obito defeat the tens of clones?

[Heji Oka]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

How does Obito defeat the tens of clones?

As I posted above your only way to combat this argument is to show that his clones are fast enough to keep up with obito and that the clones have enough taijutsu ability to be a threat to him and MS as he would be able to predict all of them.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Heji Oka

Simple naruto would be kamui'd instantly ending the match

I have two scenarios for you

1. Since it is shown that in the manga naruto needs to be kn1 naruto to create a massive amount of clones this wouldn't happen since obito would have to enraged or make naruto upset to the point to turn kn1.
So without Kn1 naruto he can at best make up to 30 clones which wouldn't be enough since sasuke was able to take on the KN1 clones with only three tomoe while obito has MS and his battle ability and speed from the fight with minato.
I agree on the amount of clones... but just because Saskue did it does not mean Obito can. Saskue taijutsu feats>>>Obito's non-existant

So in the end he would destroy each of the clones with ease since its never been shown that it takes much force to destroy his clones
but HOW would he do it
then he would kamui the real one away.
if he kuami's away a clone (or the real naruto) then that is GAME OVER FOR OBITO! THat way Naruto can attack Obito when he is tangibale or not

Now I know what you are thinking what if naruto used the clone as a feint like he always does this is still countered by obito's speed and will still result in him kamuing naruto.
what speed? He has no base speed he just warps which takes time

2nd scenario that naruto starts out kn1 naruto as shown from his 3 out of 4 times being kn1 naruto he still wouldn't start off using shadow clones as shown in the fight vs neji, haku, and sasuke so this would result in kn1 naruto charging obito since obito has MS and speed faster that kn1 naruto he would be able to dodge then kamui naruto.

heck even a 3rd scenario lets say it starts off in one tail naruto it would start with naruto trying to hit obito with his extending arms which are dodged thanks to obitos speed then you have naruto trying to circle obito to attack with the arms at a closer range but still being ineffective resulting in naruto using the giant arm and obito phasing through it, he then appears behind naruto thanks to his teleporting and kamuis him since naruto has never shown the feat to sense people or to having quick enough reactions to that type of technique.

In the end naruto loses no matter the scenario.

No Kyubbi needed

prove Obito is fast

[Heji Oka]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

No Kyubbi needed

prove Obito is fast

His MS and react feats along with his paper bombs is how he can destroy the clones.

This is based on what that IC pts naruto would be in the same spot after being kamui'd no IC naruto would and try to find an way out which would result in nothing meaning obito has nothing to fear unless you can prove that naruto would be smart enough to stay in that one spot.

While he may not have base speed his teleporting speed is not slow as mentioned by minato that it was more advanced than his.

I've given you how they would battle each other IC with proof from the manga to support it you have provided none so Obito wins.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Heji Oka

His MS and react feats
along with his paper bombs is how he can destroy the clones.
chp plz I honestly do not know what your talking about

This is based on what that IC pts naruto would be in the same spot after being kamui'd no IC naruto would and try to find an way out which would result in nothing meaning obito has nothing to fear unless you can prove that naruto would be smart enough to stay in that one spot.
are you saying that Obito would warp away the real one right away or would accidently warp awa a clone?

While he may not have base speed his teleporting speed is not slow as mentioned by minato that it was more advanced than his.
he can not blitz every clone that way though. The clones are usually close together and when he is warping away he is still tangible so the clones can still attack. As konan proved ti takes tobi a bit longer to warp away himself

I've given you how they would battle each other IC with proof from the manga to support it you have provided none so Obito wins.

So have I

[Heji Oka]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

So have I

First as shown in chapter 501 page 3 to 4 it is shown that obito carries a kunai and paper bombs which he can use instead of his fists on naruto.
Chapter 502 page 8 to 10 that minto who wasn't surprised by obito appearing behind him was surprised by the fact obito was able to react to him.

Doesn't matter neither the clone nor the real naruto have shown intelligence to act in a way that would harm tobi if he did so.

Yes that the teleporting was slow in the face of 60 billion paper bombs show naruto pull this off with his clones then you have something

You still have yet to show proof to support narutos win, obito still wins.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Heji Oka

First as shown in chapter 501 page 3 to 4 it is shown that obito carries a kunai and paper bombs which he can use instead of his fists on naruto.
naruto carries the same which he can either dodge or use his own weapons to clash/counter it
Chapter 502 page 8 to 10 that minto who wasn't surprised by obito appearing behind him was surprised by the fact obito was able to react to him.
so? with all of the clones around Naruto would be able to see Obito from where he is attacking so Naruto will not be taken by surprise

Doesn't matter neither the clone nor the real naruto have shown intelligence to act in a way that would harm tobi if he did so.
Come on Now naruto is not that slow. It does not take a genuis to hit the enemy if you see him. The clone would not be destroyed and would hit Tobi in kaumiland. Naruto would attack recklessly like always but he would not think of the plan it would just be instinct

Yes that the teleporting was slow in the face of 60 billion paper bombs show naruto pull this off with his clones then you have something
that is a totally different sceniro. That is like saying how can Obito defeat Garra and turn him good. But Naruto could Summong Gama and Gama would throw him to safety.

You still have yet to show proof to support narutos win, obito still wins.

Ight since my "proof" is not working lets try something different. I will tell you what Naruto does then you respond with what Obito would do next. This will be a short sentence kay?

I'll start.
-----------
Naruto is reckless and physicall so he would summon about 30 clones right off the bat. and Let's say 7 of them charge in for an attack with fist.

SO what does Obito do then?

[Shikamaru Nara]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

It's oOC for Ovito to spam fireballs. The only thing he can do would be intangible

They're ICTK, not IC.