Legal Action

[Vicis]

I am here on these forums today to beseech the people responsible for the licencing and distribution of the Naruto manga and anime in North America to take legal action against a website that has been illegally profiteering off the online distribution of the aforementioned products for years.

I will not directly mention the name of the website in this post as to avoid issues with the moderators but I am confident that the management at Viz is well aware of this website as Viz acquired said websites former domain name roughly 2 years ago.

The owner of this website (henceforth referred to as T) has, over the course of operating it for nearly 10 years, profited off of a number mangas and animes currently licensed to Viz. T offers users a premium service at the cost of 15$ a month. This premium service provides ad-free access to the website along with faster download speeds. Needless to say, T profits off of non paying members through advertising as well.

T's website sees thousands of unique visitors daily and at the time of this posting his forum has roughly 7x more registered users online and 2x more guests online than these forums. T does not employ his own translators and uses content available for free on the internet. This content is inherently illegal in the first place but is distributed for free in good will.

Hundreds of anime and manga fans have purchased memberships on T's website. Through minimal effort of his own T is not only profiteering off of content to which he owns no rights but off of the labour of scanlators and web subbing groups who explicitly state that they do not want anyone making money off their work. In this way T's website negatively impacts all aspects of the North American anime and manga community.

Not a single person responsible for the creation and distribution of the products offered on his site sees a single dime of the profits made by T. Being one of the largest online Naruto communities T's website only encourages further profiteering off the work of others. Most disappointing of all is that the money given to T almost certainly does not work its way back into anime and manga community in any shape way or form other than hosting the servers for his website. In that sense T's website can be regarded as a black hole for money that should, instead, be placed into the hands of the wonderful people responsible for bringing us shows like Naruto.

As the current licensee of both the Naruto manga and Anime, as well as many other shows distributed through T's website, I believe it is the responsibility of Viz to stomp out such an immoral business. Because, if not Viz then who else?


A little background on me and why I'm here - I have been an avid fan of anime and manga for years and have put down large sums of money in the past to feed my interests all with the hopes that my money would be an investment towards a bigger and better anime and manga community in North America. I originally learned of T's website in 2004 while I was browsing the internet trying to find myself a good website off which I could read Gantz (it was not licensed at the time). The website I found was, in fact, not T's website but a site dedicated to spreading information about his methods. At the time I had never even imagined that people were making money off free translations fans posted on the internet in their free time.

I was driven to make this post all these years later after I decided to check if T's website was still around after visiting a Naruto discussion board (looking for a discussion on Gundams ) that looked in style all too similar to T's own board. I couldn't remember the websites exact address but I did, however, remember the url of the website that I originally visited in 2004. The name stuck with me somewhy, perhaps because its content struck a nerve all those years ago... After briefly refreshing my memory I went ahead to T's website in the hopes that it was dead all these years later. I was met with a brief moment of jubilation when the url redirected me to naruto.viz only to soon realise T was only forced to change domain names and was still going strong. I actually just found an article on a wikipedia based website as I was about to finish this post about T. Turns out he's really hated everywhere but his own website!

I really hope that this post has some way of making it up to the management of Viz even if it's something as little as an employee saying "hey, maybe we should look into shutting down _____" to his boss at a work party. Nothing would be a better Christmas present for all the fans of Naruto in North America than a DMCA takedown notice sent directly to T. I am honestly flabbergasted that his website is still around and, as much as I would really rather not, I will contact Viz through as many mediums as possible if I see no affirmative action being taken! I'm no lawyer but I'm sure Viz could at least make a penny or two off T's current customer base if he was shut down!

That was a really long post and I hope I haven't made too many type-o's! If someone's read this far I thank you for your time!

[Vornmusion]

Take down one site as another rises up to take its place; #2 doesn't drop out of the race simply because #1 packed up and went home.

Ought to be glad manga as a medium is still popular enough outside of Japan to warrant that kind of dedication.

Still, you made me giggle.

[Vicis]

Originally Posted by Vornmusion

Take down one site as another rises up to take its place; #2 doesn't drop out of the race simply because #1 packed up and went home.

Ought to be glad manga as a medium is still popular enough outside of Japan to warrant that kind of dedication.

Still, you made me giggle.

The thing is, this website has been around making money off this for 10 years.

When it comes to translation groups you can take down as many as you can count and more will just pop up. People translating anime and manga have nothing to gain and nothing to lose. They can close up shop and start up another group under a different name.

To support a website like the one I mentioned you need a large community to bring in people. Not only is it free advertising but people are more encouraged to spend money on a membership when they see 2000 active users on the forums.

The single fact that his website has more traffic than this official distributor while both websites offer a PAID service should warrant a cease a desist notice.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

yeah Tazmo doesn't charge people to join his forum not sure where you're getting that and I am pretty sure considering the nature of some of his staff members a lot of people would abandon his site in disgust if he ever asked that.

The rest of you're post smacks of white knighting- It's very likely Viz knows exactly what is going on there unlike the other time you tried this and likely uses Tazmo and his enormous memberbase for free advertisement - Tazmo is the lesser of all the evils out there

simply put..trying too hard here

[Toma RNK]

I'm not going to enjoy this unfolding.

Viz is officially made aware of a site = lawyer time.
Viz prefers not to screw with online communities.
OP makes this post, viz must act.

Incoming drama bomb.

[Sajuuk]

Legal issues should be taken directly to SRhyse or Sage Mode or by directly contacting Viz Media and not posting on these forums.

[Toma RNK]

Originally Posted by Sajuuk

Legal issues should be taken directly to SRhyse or Sage Mode or by directly contacting Viz Media and not posting on these forums.

Why? And where is that posted, implied, or anything?

If you care going to sound official, be correct. Isn't the feedback forum of an official site a reasonable place to post this kind of feedback?

I don't like the thread, but also don't like the tone of your post or the subtext it sends.

[Sajuuk]

Originally Posted by Toma RNK

Why? And where is that posted, implied, or anything?

If you care going to sound official, be correct. Isn't the feedback forum of an official site a reasonable place to post this kind of feedback?

When it concerns the company on a matter like this, it is much better to contact the company via the official channels and I'm not sure whether posting on this forum about a legal issue would be a wise thing imo. Hence, it'd be easier to contact SRhyse or Sage Mode directly. It just gives off a better signal doing that rather than posting

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

So Sentry forces viz's hands and once again uses a third party to settle his vendetta against the OBD

And this is literally all this is- an old time troll from a forgotten era he failed when he notified marvel and warner bros and is hoping this thread will force viz's hands and it will finally finish the job. If viz legal does anything it will have been manipulated by a troll from NF's vs section into taking retribution for said troll being banned from it years before this forum existed. The back lash against us might end up being enormous as well for this. You don't just shut down a site that enormous and popular without some kind of major fall out

This posters using us guys and we should deny him the ability.to do so

[Shikamaru Nara]

I was initially going to not touch this one, but I feel almost as if this was an attempt to come to a smaller forum because of the fact that Viz officials come to this forum and he wants a lawsuit or something.

What I feel you didn't take into account is that it actually takes a goodly sum of money to manage and run a forum (server bills, initial license isn't expensive, but it may be to low income people, mods, plugins, etc - all expenses)

Most other sites offer the same features and don't have permission to use manga/anime. The only difference is that they haven't blown up. I can link you to a few off the top of my head in PM that are the same, essentially, if you don't believe me.

I feel like you're wasting your time trying to get Viz to take action, especially because you don't appear to have a following. Hell, causes with followings can't get the job done sometimes...

[Roy]

Nothing, nevermind lol.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

I was initially going to not touch this one, but I feel almost as if this was an attempt to come to a smaller forum because of the fact that Viz officials come to this forum and he wants a lawsuit or something.

That's exactly what this is, This is most likely another incarnation of an incredibly relentless and pervasive troll and six years ago he tried getting comic book companies to crack down on NF and almost succeeded - this was done solely because he had a vendetta against the regs of the forums Vs debate section - the man has been relentlessly trying to kill the site for years.

I'm not going to defend NF I think the staff are a bunch of sociopathic lunatics and they should all be locked up but there is a valid question: Should a company like Viz go after a source of free advertising and function as a virtual hit squad for a resentful clique within the fandom..should it continue this crusade despite the fact that everytime it does so the backlash from the fandom gets increasingly hostile

[Vornmusion]

Originally Posted by Vicis

To support a website like the one I mentioned you need a large community to bring in people. Not only is it free advertising but people are more encouraged to spend money on a membership when they see 2000 active users on the forums.

I'd much rather people that see 2000 active members and say to themselves "Wow I would pay to be a part of that", be locked away to their own forum than unleashed on the masses.

Originally Posted by Vicis

The single fact that his website has more traffic than this official distributor while both websites offer a PAID service should warrant a cease a desist notice.

Superior service = superior numbers (today known as the piracy issue as the hot subject). An official site that doesn't even allow the reason for it existing to be posted on it, is enough to ensure it will never be as popular as another that does, official or not. Just common sense. Frankly if their service is better then they deserve the money; in the real world people try to get the best service for as little cost as possible, if they're intelligent anyway. It promotes growth as two parties war with each other, creating better service to best the other. You know, how most of the world works to prevent monopolies and stimulate growth.
Why people assume the concept no longer exists on the Internet is still something I'm trying to figure out. It's part of the natural order of things we as a society have created. If Viz really wants their traffic that badly they'll do what is necessary to get people to come here. Crushing a website and then asking everyone to come over to yours, which has a lesser service, isn't going to win you anyone except the desperate that can't use Google. It will however earn you their anger, all the while they go to another site that isn't yours.

Now I don't know if their service is better, but given the service here -- and that I can Google any number of sites that do it better -- I see no reason to assume it isn't.

While your unintended point is a truth reflective of the problems with popular medium (that official outputs are lacking compared to non-offical due to unnecessary bloat in the legal systems, and lack of caring by the company involved), it is nevertheless rendered moot.

In anycase eventually you're going to anger someone(s) that have the ability to do something in retaliation if you strong arm yourselves everywhere. Not that I care of course.

Originally Posted by Sajuuk

Legal issues should be taken directly to SRhyse or Sage Mode or by directly contacting Viz Media and not posting on these forums.

All legal actions should be taken directly to Viz via letter, email, person, or phone if available to ensure they receive it. Anything less reeks of unprofessionalism; Lawyers don't post their notice on forums for each of the respective parties involved. And if yours does, get a new one quickly.

Unless you're not willing to go that extra step for your cause. Someone legitimately calling for legal action and prepared to act on it would of sent their query directly to Viz to begin with; which is why this thread amuses me so.

[Shisko Shi]

What did you just say T has people pay to be a member on here?yea that is not true.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by Vornmusion

In anycase eventually you're going to anger someone(s) that have the ability to do something in retaliation if you strong arm yourselves everywhere. Not that I care of course.

I'd like to point out the only reason why Viz didn't crash when they tried to strong arm NF two years ago was because Tazmo specifically asked people not do anything because he felt would be wrong.

People were perfectly willing to crash this site to the ground in retaliation for the domain order..imagine what they'd do if they found their site dead

and a site that large could probably crash this ones servers simply by having half its memberbase to post here at the same time

[Shikamaru Nara]

This thread is not about this forum.

[cnorwood]

should I read this or will it just cause a headache

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by cnorwood

should I read this or will it just cause a headache

It's another one of sentry's diabolacle schemes to shut NF down

So yeah what do you think?