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Old 12-06-2012, 01:04 PM   #21
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

IMO it's not for us to decide whether or not a person deserves to live or die.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:08 PM   #22
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

I don't belive because it is not for me to judge someone else. Now if i was being attacked yea ill kill them if thats what they are trying to do. But to exacute no. I just dont feel that i have the right because then i am taking a life aswell and it will always be on my hands.
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You have a cool headed manner, and it almost appears as serious. When you're out in the games playing, you're just as serious but extremely aggressive. This is what leads the NDF football team to victory (lol in reality the team would suck ass but lets just imagine it otherwise)
You're popular and a lot of people look up to you and see you as most likely to win "Best All Around" in the yearbook. You walk into a party and everyone shouts "AYYY IT'S COLLIIIIIN" and you get attacked by high fives by your teammates and crew and hugs by desperate females. But most people don't know a lot about you personally because you don't let anyone in a lot.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:57 PM   #23
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

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Originally Posted by scallanan View Post
Very true indeed. It's like saying someone should die because they murdered someone. Does that mean soldiers at war who kill people don't deserve to die just because they were told to do it by the president (which by the way is only another human), and they're only doing their job? Many of the sins we are told we commit are just views of society, not moral views (and vica versa).... or am I wrong in saying this?
Pretty perverse comparing soldiers to murderers.

It's pretty damn easy making moral judgments when nobody is trying to kill you. But when you are in the heat of battle you have mere SECONDS to
make a decision. People are always raging about "innocent civilians"
being they often miss the fact that those "innocent civilians" are ARMED AND DANGEROUS. I'm not saying soldiers should get a free pass for murder
but there should be some understanding. Soldier's follow orders and the
reason they follow orders is because if they don't PEOPLE DIE.

Comparing that to some thug murderer?

Please.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:59 AM   #24
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

In any case, where not killing would result in a greater evil. Taking down an active shooter, war that prevents any number of atrocities, etc. etc.

If you can't distingush those cases, you are what's called a useful idiot. ^_^
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:32 AM   #25
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

It depends on how you view life. If you are ready to die, and you have made peace with everything then yes, because death can be a blessing.

Life is a beautiful lie, and death is a painful truth. However I view both as beautiful. Death is just another part of my souls journey.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:44 PM   #26
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
In any case, where not killing would result in a greater evil. Taking down an active shooter, war that prevents any number of atrocities, etc. etc.

If you can't distingush those cases, you are what's called a useful idiot. ^_^
Can I be an useless idiot?
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:37 PM   #27
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

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Can I be an useless idiot?
Me too
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:47 AM   #28
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

well people deserve to die if they lived forever it would probably be more like a nightmare... anyways self defence is a good reason for killing. but protecting people like in wars both sides lose people (even if there all trying to fight to protect someone)
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:45 AM   #29
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

I'm a Christian so I believe that we should try and protect life as much as possible, even for those who did us wrong.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:57 PM   #30
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

I believe the only time killing is justified is when it's necessary for the preservation of another life, either your own or in defense of someone else. So killing someone in self-defense as they try to kill you would be justified, but killing a prisoner isn't because they don't pose any lethal danger at that point.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:51 PM   #31
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

People that take lives maliciously shouldn't be allowed to live. Anyone that completely changes someone's life for the worst in the worst ways possible (ex. Rapists, kidnappers, slavers, etc) It's a waste of tax money and there's no true justice for the families victims. No one should be shown mercy if they haven't shown mercy themselves and have committed crimes.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:53 PM   #32
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

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Personal opinion is that if you believe all lives are of equal value if someone has taken more than one life and you can prove they will take more then they do deserve to die. However you can never judge that so it's better not to come to that conclusion
This sounds like you answered your own debate. If we are not to judge then why is there a justice system? I hate hearing that we as humans must be humane to other humans. Well was that guy that carved your kid into pieces while "having his way with her/him" humane? If you do the crime you do the time. I personally have no problem with someone dying for their crimes.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:02 AM   #33
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

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I'm a Christian so I believe that we should try and protect life as much as possible, even for those who did us wrong.
I mean taking a a life for no reason or say "raping a little kid" they should be punished beyond death tortured possibly. because that messes with those kids minds murder is a odd thing since everyone dies eventually
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

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This sounds like you answered your own debate. If we are not to judge then why is there a justice system? I hate hearing that we as humans must be humane to other humans. Well was that guy that carved your kid into pieces while "having his way with her/him" humane? If you do the crime you do the time. I personally have no problem with someone dying for their crimes.
If I had a kid and someone did that to my kid I probably would kill that person if I caught them, even after the fact, that still doesn't give me the right to take a life from another human or make it right too.

Life in a federal prison can be a even worse hell then death..maybe...if they got life I might not kill them but anything less I probably would.

Still not right.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:48 AM   #35
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

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Pretty perverse comparing soldiers to murderers.

It's pretty damn easy making moral judgments when nobody is trying to kill you. But when you are in the heat of battle you have mere SECONDS to
make a decision. People are always raging about "innocent civilians"
being they often miss the fact that those "innocent civilians" are ARMED AND DANGEROUS.
My sister (in the military) got pregnant and served her maternity tour in a legal office in Norfolk. She sent me the link to a case she got to sit in on (I can't find the link, I'll pm it to you if I do find it)
There were a group of troops. They had two insurgents, one was dead, one was alive and in captivity. These men sent the captive insurgent to check the dead guy for explosives. This insurgent picked a gun up, opened fire, and got gunned down by these men. One of them is being charged with murder. I still can't wrap my head around it...
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Originally Posted by Throw Rasen-Shuriken View Post
Everyone deserves to have at least some peace for once, finally, after their life.

As for forced death in any way, no not really, I say let them live with their regrets and hardship, since that'll be enough torture, since your worst enemy is yourself.
That sounds ideal. I'd agree with it if that was always the case, but really there's people that just flat out don't care what they did. They get out, repeat, more money and time wasted because we're taking this person's feelings into consideration and treating them like a decent human being when they honestly don't care. When they never took the concequences into consideration.

On top of it, that amount of people in jails is overboard. They're so full they let people with less serious crimes get off free. Personal story, yays: My dad has been in and out of jail at least four times for the same crime since school started and they keep letting him out because there's no room. Where's the justice? I'd like to see him rot, but he's not paying for what he's doing. I guess he deserves a fair shot at life, even though he's had plenty of chances to correct himself.

And this sounds cold hearted, but its population control. If some serial killer doesn't affect society in any positive way, they just take up space and waste things that could be used better elsewhere. /half-asleep rant
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:15 AM   #36
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

I know that if someone kills or rapes a kid they did a bad crime but I don't think that we should kill or torture in return. Personally I think that killing someone is actually letting them get off easy. I think letting the killer sit in jail is a worse punishment than killing them. This way they have to live with seeing the same gray walls for years and years. If we kill them then it is all over for them.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:00 AM   #37
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

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If I had a kid and someone did that to my kid I probably would kill that person if I caught them, even after the fact, that still doesn't give me the right to take a life from another human or make it right too.

Life in a federal prison can be a even worse hell then death..maybe...if they got life I might not kill them but anything less I probably would.

Still not right.
But why do you have the right to judge someone for thinking differently? It is true that taking a person's life will not bring the person back that they killed or whatever I agree on that. BUT why is ok for us to justify euthanizing an animal that bites someone but is rabies free? Or to put them down simply because we don't want them anymore? I am sure I will either hear but those are animals which is hypocritical since most of you are saying all life is precious. Or I will hear that animals are not equal. Well that is ok for you to believe, but tell me why it is so hard to justify taking a human life? I do not see us any different then animals.
I also personally think that death is to easy since I am the type of person who would torture certain people and make sure they stayed alive the entire time. I am also up for human experimentation with bad criminals. It does not bother me. I personally am not going to go out and murder people or whatnot, but I will not feel sorry for someone who deserves it nor feel sorry for judging someone that is beyond a shadow of a doubt guilty of something that warrants death. Think about this my friend. You are TERMINALLY ill with a horrific disease that is going to slowly and painfully kill you. You know your death is coming and the end is going to be extremely intolerable. In your death you will leave your family not an inheritance of money and estates but medical bills and funeral expenses. Keep in mind insurance does NOT cover all costs and a terminal illness is extremely costly. You are so miserable and wish for death now. You decided to ask someone to help you end your life. Would you fault someone for relieving you of your misery? This is called assisted suicide. It is illegal in someways but perfectly understandable in others.
I worked for 6 years in a nursing home and watched people die of some of the worst diseases and conditions you can think of. Many of them died alone or in pain or frightened. I now work in the veterinary world. The only thing that has changed is animals cannot tell you what is wrong or how they really feel. Taking a life of an animal or person is acceptable in certain cases imo. You don't believe taking a life is right, I don't believe in letting anyone or anything suffer. We agree to disagree and that is perfectly fine.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:19 PM   #38
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

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Originally Posted by AgentShayd View Post
But why do you have the right to judge someone for thinking differently? It is true that taking a person's life will not bring the person back that they killed or whatever I agree on that. BUT why is ok for us to justify euthanizing an animal that bites someone but is rabies free? Or to put them down simply because we don't want them anymore? I am sure I will either hear but those are animals which is hypocritical since most of you are saying all life is precious. Or I will hear that animals are not equal. Well that is ok for you to believe, but tell me why it is so hard to justify taking a human life? I do not see us any different then animals.
I would generally put all animals along sort of a sliding scale based on factors like intelligence, ability to feel emotions, importance to the ecosystem, etc. So in that sense humans are generally going to be at the top, hence their lives are more valuable than other animals. With that said, I don't believe killing animals, regardless of where they are along that scale, can be justified except when it's necessary to the preservation of an animal of greater importance. Also, it's important to note that your starting spot on that scale isn't permanent and can change to reflect the summation of all your actions up to a given point in time. So someone that purposely inflicts pain on others may literally end up being less valuable than a worm. But I still wouldn't kill them unless it's necessary to a more important animal's preservation (incidentally, this includes the food they need to eat to survive, so I think a strict vegetarian diet should be imposed on major offenders).

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I also personally think that death is to easy since I am the type of person who would torture certain people and make sure they stayed alive the entire time. I am also up for human experimentation with bad criminals. It does not bother me. I personally am not going to go out and murder people or whatnot, but I will not feel sorry for someone who deserves it nor feel sorry for judging someone that is beyond a shadow of a doubt guilty of something that warrants death.
Needlessly torturing someone just puts you closer to their level. Because their actions have already lowered their position on that sliding scale, harming them isn't as bad as them harming an innocent, so you won't fall all the way down to their level. But I would still say that your position would be lowered.

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Think about this my friend. You are TERMINALLY ill with a horrific disease that is going to slowly and painfully kill you. You know your death is coming and the end is going to be extremely intolerable. In your death you will leave your family not an inheritance of money and estates but medical bills and funeral expenses. Keep in mind insurance does NOT cover all costs and a terminal illness is extremely costly. You are so miserable and wish for death now. You decided to ask someone to help you end your life. Would you fault someone for relieving you of your misery? This is called assisted suicide. It is illegal in someways but perfectly understandable in others.
I worked for 6 years in a nursing home and watched people die of some of the worst diseases and conditions you can think of. Many of them died alone or in pain or frightened. I now work in the veterinary world. The only thing that has changed is animals cannot tell you what is wrong or how they really feel. Taking a life of an animal or person is acceptable in certain cases imo. You don't believe taking a life is right, I don't believe in letting anyone or anything suffer. We agree to disagree and that is perfectly fine.
I would certainly consider assisted suicide to be a different matter than inflicting unwanted pain. In certain cases, I could see it being acceptable.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:28 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Saiyan View Post
If I had a kid and someone did that to my kid I probably would kill that person if I caught them, even after the fact, that still doesn't give me the right to take a life from another human or make it right too.

Life in a federal prison can be a even worse hell then death..maybe...if they got life I might not kill them but anything less I probably would.

Still not right.
Yes, it does when someone rapes a child, murders or commits acts of heinous torture they absolutely forfeit their right to continue to live period.

edit- Shayd my counter to your animal thing We maybe high functioning but we're animals..we also come from an incredibly sadistic violent group of species (apes and high functioning mammals in general are horrible douche bags and yes this includes Dolphins and Orcas..who literally form lynch mobs and murder animals they happen to hate) - while we've done a fantastic job in holstering and chaining our aggressive dominant nature with ehtics..lets face it we are so dominant as a species that we have reshaped the world in our image..these lower functioning animals have no rights..they are merely an extension of our will and exist in many cases solely because we have a strong sense of responsibility for the environment and their existence

as arrogant and mean as that sounds its..pretty simple we're the only animals that can truly understand why its so important to be gentle stewards but deep down in a more primitive part of our brain we fully understand..that ultimately they aren;t us..and should not be subjected to the same value as we would assign another person

nothing wrong with that either it is what it is

human life has more value..then anything else on this planet- and within a few generations it will be "more value than anything in the solar system" it's not hypocritical for a person to be against the death penalty and want to preserve life but not care about harpooning a whale (not that I'm in favor of that at all)
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:19 PM   #40
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Default Re: Death,does anyone deserve it?

Also if you look at it in another way the more deaths their are in the world, thebetter chance we have to not over populate the world.
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