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Omniverse Anything goes in this forum. Any multiverse, any singleverse, any fight. Just know in advance that Kakashi can't beat Superman.

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Old 12-09-2012, 12:43 PM   #121
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

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Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
Why would Obito fight Vegeta that makes no sense?
that's just mean dude

funny part is as a kid I was like "this guys rivalry gets really creepy at times"

no but seriously you had to have known that wasn't about Vegeta..Vegie was never smart enough to be manipulative
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:55 PM   #122
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

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that's just mean dude

funny part is as a kid I was like "this guys rivalry gets really creepy at times"

no but seriously you had to have known that wasn't about Vegeta..Vegie was never smart enough to be manipulative
I don't know he was worse than Naruto in that departmen. Even left his family and slaughtered a stadium full of people. Though his love for his son won out he went there.

He tricked Babidi into giving him a powerup, forged a fake alliance on Namek, Faked another power up from a little green kid at one point. He is kinda manipulative. But yeah nowhere near on Naruto or Obito's level. One talks down mass murderers the other creates them.

I started reading both because of the martial arts from both series why can't people keep it simple.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:04 PM   #123
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

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I don't know he was worse than Naruto in that departmen. Even left his family and slaughtered a stadium full of people. Though his love for his son won out he went there.

He tricked Babidi into giving him a powerup, forged a fake alliance on Namek, Faked another power up from a little green kid at one point. He is kinda manipulative. But yeah nowhere near on Naruto or Obito's level. One talks down mass murderers the other creates them.

I started reading both because of the martial arts from both series why can't people keep it simple.
oh I'm not disputing that Vegeta and Goku remind me of Achilles and his cousin..and Diomedes and that Trojan douche bag..the bromance was very strong indeed

ehh I say that because Vegeta took advantage of naive people or in Babidi's case a mind numbingly arrogant little wizard who really failed to do any research on his enemies

Both Tobito and Naruto screw with people who on paper any way should be smart enough to know better
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:28 PM   #124
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

When a debate simply becomes arguing over which series is worse, it's probably not worth debating seriously anymore. Fact is they both have little to no character or plot development, they're both highly generic even for shounens, and neither is well-written. Overall, they're both pretty terrible. And that's precisely why they're both so popular. See people generally seem watch/read these series for one of a few reasons.

1. They're idiots that aren't capable of understanding (and therefore enjoying) more complicated series. And because they can't understand better written series they assume that there's a problem with the series when the problem is really themselves. This is more people than you might think.

2. They're too young to understand (and therefore enjoy) more complicated series. In fact, this is probably the most complicated series they've ever had a chance to see, so they can't compare it to anything better until they're older and by then they've become nostalgic.

3. They are neither young nor stupid but after watching many other good series are able to enjoy the simple stupidity of the series. This can also include nostalgia factors. (Main reason I still follow Naruto)

4. They want something to make fun of or criticize. (This is me a bit too)

I personally think that far too many people in the world are idiots and fall into that first category, which is the main reason why these series become so popular (stupid people popularize stupid series). This being a viz forum, there are probably quite a few people in that second category as well. Most of the vs. debaters here are probably in the last two. And I should mention that if you don't fall into categories 2-4 then, despite what your mother might tell you, you're probably in category 1. Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards fixing yourself, so please hurry up and get on that so the rest of us don't have to suffer through your stupidity any more.


Also, Akira has the better weapons, so I'd put my bets on him for the fight.

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Old 12-09-2012, 01:52 PM   #125
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

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Originally Posted by TRcommander View Post
When a debate simply becomes arguing over which series is worse, it's probably not worth debating seriously anymore. Fact is they both have little to no character or plot development, they're both highly generic even for shounens, and neither is well-written. Overall, they're both pretty terrible. And that's precisely why they're both so popular. See people generally seem watch/read these series for one of a few reasons.

1. They're idiots that aren't capable of understanding (and therefore enjoying) more complicated series. And because they can't understand better written series they assume that there's a problem with the series when the problem is really themselves. This is more people than you might think.

2. They're too young to understand (and therefore enjoy) more complicated series. In fact, this is probably the most complicated series they've ever had a chance to see, so they can't compare it to anything better until they're older and by then they've become nostalgic.

3. They are neither young nor stupid but after watching many other good series are able to enjoy the simple stupidity of the series. This can also include nostalgia factors. (Main reason I still follow Naruto)

4. They want something to make fun of or criticize. (This is me a bit too)

I personally think that far too many people in the world are idiots and fall into that first category, which is the main reason why these series become so popular (stupid people popularize stupid series). This being a viz forum, there are probably quite a few people in that second category as well. Most of the vs. debaters here are probably in the last two. And I should mention that if you don't fall into categories 2-4 then, despite what your mother might tell you, you're probably in category 1. Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards fixing yourself, so please hurry up and get on that so the rest of us don't have to suffer through your stupidity any more.


Also, Akira has the better weapons, so I'd put my bets on him for the fight.
This is more or less spot on
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:04 PM   #126
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

Actually number one is pretty wrong. The most popular manga have one thing in common action. People like to see action. That is the same reason comics are popular. There are of course exceptions. I thought it was obvious people love violence.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:02 PM   #127
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

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Actually number one is pretty wrong. The most popular manga have one thing in common action. People like to see action. That is the same reason comics are popular. There are of course exceptions. I thought it was obvious people love violence.
There are plenty of series with tons of action that never gained nearly as much popularity as series like Naruto and Dragonball. Why? Because they had more complex characters and story lines with actual plot development. It's not just the action that makes these series successful, it's also the lack of anything else to go along with it.

And then you have to look at why people like violence. It's because it's exciting and easy to understand. It provides entertainment without requiring any real thought from the viewer, and that's about all idiots can manage. The instant a real plot appears they tune out because they can't comprehend it or at least don't want to try to. And if something makes them tune out then they assume it's bad when, again, they're the ones with the problem. Though, like I said with the other categories, non-idiots can enjoy violence as well for other reasons that don't involve a lack of comprehension skills. And I won't say that those categories are all inclusive and describe everyone in the world, but I think the majority of people fit into them to a reasonable extent.

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Old 12-09-2012, 07:15 PM   #128
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

Complicated & boring are 2 different things, just because a manga is "complicated", doesn't mean it's a better story, sometimes stories can be too "complicated", therefore it's easy too tune out. As I said before, Yu Yu Hakusho is my favorite manga & anime, that's because it's has the perfect blend of action, realistic, storytelling theme to it.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:42 PM   #129
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

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Actually number one is pretty wrong. The most popular manga have one thing in common action. People like to see action. That is the same reason comics are popular. There are of course exceptions. I thought it was obvious people love violence.
I suppose that's why Bakemonogatari is so popular despite consisting of near 90% of dialogue and nothing happening?

Another example would be Minamoto-kun Monogatari then again it's the story of a guy who is scared of girls but is used in the reverse Genji research by his aunt.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:43 PM   #130
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

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Complicated & boring are 2 different things, just because a manga is "complicated", doesn't mean it's a better story, sometimes stories can be too "complicated", therefore it's easy too tune out. As I said before, Yu Yu Hakusho is my favorite manga & anime, that's because it's has the perfect blend of action, realistic, storytelling theme to it.
That's very true; an overly convoluted plot can be just as bad as a lack of any plot at all. The problem is that for too many people in this world, "complicated" means anything that requires more thought than watching an explosion. I don't have anything against using violence as a form of entertainment, I have a problem when that's the only form people have the mental capacity to understand. A lack of critical thinking skills in people is a major problem.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:10 PM   #131
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

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I suppose that's why Bakemonogatari is so popular despite consisting of near 90% of dialogue and nothing happening?

Another example would be Minamoto-kun Monogatari then again it's the story of a guy who is scared of girls but is used in the reverse Genji research by his aunt.
Haven't read the first one so don't know. But the second one is ok. Seen a thousand others like it or run along a similar story path. But neither one gets Naruto and db level attention.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:23 PM   #132
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

killing your enemy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>talk no jutsu

akira toriyama>>>>>>>>>>>kishi

And the funny thing is Toriyama is probably the most laziest mangaka around and he still makes a better manga. But I think the best thing about Toriyama is how well he draws a scene, he always draws amazing backgrounds in almost every panel.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:36 PM   #133
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

Actually tnj hasn't happened in a long time. Also goku didn't kill any of his enemies except buu. The rest is his friends.
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There are plenty of series with tons of action that never gained nearly as much popularity as series like Naruto and Dragonball. Why? Because they had more complex characters and story lines with actual plot development. It's not just the action that makes these series successful, it's also the lack of anything else to go along with it.

And then you have to look at why people like violence. It's because it's exciting and easy to understand. It provides entertainment without requiring any real thought from the viewer, and that's about all idiots can manage. The instant a real plot appears they tune out because they can't comprehend it or at least don't want to try to. And if something makes them tune out then they assume it's bad when, again, they're the ones with the problem. Though, like I said with the other categories, non-idiots can enjoy violence as well for other reasons that don't involve a lack of comprehension skills. And I won't say that those categories are all inclusive and describe everyone in the world, but I think the majority of people fit into them to a reasonable extent.
Meh it's all opinionated. Some stories just appeal more to others.


That and the fact shounens are fueled by kids. Your number 2 on the lists Db and Naruto got their audience in the states on a cartoon channel. They are the strongest series mainly because of the fact. Most of the series online is still new discoveries for some people.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:45 PM   #134
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

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Actually tnj hasn't happened in a long time.
well the kyuubi got tnj'd and obito is about to be

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Also goku didn't kill any of his enemies except buu. The rest is his friends.
Goku is worthless, his friends are the ones who know whats up.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:59 PM   #135
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

IDK why people are saying things like Toriyama wanted to end it in the cell saga, or Goku was supposed to stay dead and etc. There isn't anything to to confirm that, kanzenshuus intended endings guide pretty much ends all the rumors about what people think pressured Toriyama to continue the story or to keep reviving Goku.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:59 PM   #136
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

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Meh it's all opinionated. Some stories just appeal more to others.
True, people have different tastes. And yet, as you pointed out yourself, violence always seems to be very popular, and the reasons for that go back to my list.

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That and the fact shounens are fueled by kids. Your number 2 on the lists Db and Naruto got their audience in the states on a cartoon channel. They are the strongest series mainly because of the fact. Most of the series online is still new discoveries for some people.
Again, this is true, but you have to be able to reason out why it's true. Why were these shows put on tv in the first place instead of other series? Because they're easily understandable and require little to no thought to enjoy them, so the people in charge of the programming know that they'll bring in money. I don't think there's a problem with that in and of itself, but people that stop their mental development right there and are never able to develop their comprehension skills are probably not very bright overall.

And I'm also not saying that it has to be television or comics or such that help people develop these skills, but the kinds of series that people find entertaining, along with the reasons they're able to give as to why they find them entertaining, can give you some insight into their mental development.

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Old 12-10-2012, 09:59 AM   #137
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto vs Akira Toriyama

Talking about explosions in current Shonen Manga always reminds me of Bleach and of course the overrated Shunpo and Sonido and the Aizen-fangasm some people display.

It's even worse than Itachi-ism.
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