One Piece Chapter 690

[Nagahana]

It seems like Law got stronger after he got his heart back, like he wasn't at full potencial before....does this mean that Monet wasn't at full power as well?

Also, when Oda drew the Supernovas after the time-skiip Bonney was shown with a coat, like she hiding, the same way Luffy was when he arrived at Shabondy. So, maybe she did escape somehow.

[Wooster]

The real question is what are the Marines hiding. Law hinted that the Marines coudl wipe the floor with the Emperors if they so chose, but rather are biding their time.

[Ino's Girl]

Caesar getting his ass handed to him This chapter was awesome :3

[Devils Lawyer]

I don't think the marines could wipe out the emperor. But they are showing nothing close to their real strength.

[Wooster]

Maybe the Marines will be happy about this pirate warfare then. Weaken them up.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by Vatanui AKA Pride

Law used his Devil Fruit at an island-wide range. What more explanation do you need?

If nothing else, it's more realistic than the Juubi flicking away a Bijuu bomb with his finger.

EDIT: And completely ignoring the law of physics by not having it explode.

Okay, I guess that kind of makes sense-I just assumed that it was a sword slash imbued with Haki that was so powerful it cut through the island (like the way Zoro fights). Isn't Law always shown putting up a barrier before using his Devil Fruit powers? At any rate, using his Devil Fruit power at island scale is way above what he's shown before and I guess will be attributed to training for two years.

I don't really get why people are so upset about the Bijuu bomb, a TBB is not a water balloon and the Ten Tails is a huge mass of Nature Chakra so he could easily influence a chakra based substance coming his way how he pleases. And don't even get me started on physics. Oda had Chopper increase his weight so he could fall faster and dodge an attack in one chapter which anyone with a basic knowledge of physics knows wouldn't work. And then there's Jenga Cannon once again.

Originally Posted by Vatanui AKA Pride

And how the hell, in any sense, are Sanji or Zoro "normal humans"? No one here is trying to sell them off as "normal humans", much less Oda. Ussop and Nami are the only conceivably "normal humans" in the Straw Hats; even Oda himself has stated this.

Any other explanations you need or may have skimmed over, I'm your man.

In the sense that no explanation for how they are/became not normal was given. They aren't devil fruit users so they shouldn't be able to do superhuman feats. Yes, I know...Haki. But that still doesn't explain how Zoro can bench press tons of weight and the whole concept of Haki wasn't even introduced until hundreds of chapters into the story, way after Zoro and Sanji were performing superhuman feats.

Part of the reason I can't get into One Piece as much as other series is due to the fact that I can't suspend my disbelief. Yes, there are people who can affect space/time and destroy mountains in Naruto, but the reasoning and mechanics behind how they do this are established. I get more of the impression that Oda just writes whatever he feels like not restraining characters to any kind of rules whatsoever or having them break the few that he does set at every opportunity. "Hmmm-I feel like having Luffy take down the supposedly greatest prison in the world largely alone. To add drama I'll have him poisoned and state that there is no cure and he'll die in 24 hours. No wait, there is someone who can heal him conveniently hanging around in this prison, but (s)he'll say that he only has a 2-3% survival chance and that he'll wake up too late to save Ace anyway. But no! Luffy not only survives this lethal poison, he recovers to a level where he can continue fighting hordes of enemies through the magical power of hormones, willpower, and meat-and all in just 20 hours!"

[Devroux]

Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage

Okay, I guess that kind of makes sense-I just assumed that it was a sword slash imbued with Haki that was so powerful it cut through the island (like the way Zoro fights). Isn't Law always shown putting up a barrier before using his Devil Fruit powers? At any rate, using his Devil Fruit power at island scale is way above what he's shown before and I guess will be attributed to training for two years.

I don't really get why people are so upset about the Bijuu bomb, a TBB is not a water balloon and the Ten Tails is a huge mass of Nature Chakra so he could easily influence a chakra based substance coming his way how he pleases. And don't even get me started on physics. Oda had Chopper increase his weight so he could fall faster and dodge an attack in one chapter which anyone with a basic knowledge of physics knows wouldn't work. And then there's Jenga Cannon once again.


In the sense that no explanation for how they are/became not normal was given. They aren't devil fruit users so they shouldn't be able to do superhuman feats. Yes, I know...Haki. But that still doesn't explain how Zoro can bench press tons of weight and the whole concept of Haki wasn't even introduced until hundreds of chapters into the story, way after Zoro and Sanji were performing superhuman feats.

Part of the reason I can't get into One Piece as much as other series is due to the fact that I can't suspend my disbelief. Yes, there are people who can affect space/time and destroy mountains in Naruto, but the reasoning and mechanics behind how they do this are established. I get more of the impression that Oda just writes whatever he feels like not restraining characters to any kind of rules whatsoever or having them break the few that he does set at every opportunity. "Hmmm-I feel like having Luffy take down the supposedly greatest prison in the world largely alone. To add drama I'll have him poisoned and state that there is no cure and he'll die in 24 hours. No wait, there is someone who can heal him conveniently hanging around in this prison, but (s)he'll say that he only has a 2-3% survival chance and that he'll wake up too late to save Ace anyway. But no! Luffy not only survives this lethal poison, he recovers to a level where he can continue fighting hordes of enemies through the magical power of hormones, willpower, and meat-and all in just 20 hours!"

That's pretty dumb.

You're acting like in anime, everything needs to be outright explained and follow basic rules, but you're blatantly wrong. Oda never comes out and says things, or at least he rarely does. Most of the people that do this stuff do it because they have powers from a Devil Fruit, which in itself explains what they can do. If you haven't followed the manga for 650 freaking chapters, then you wouldn't know that Luffy is a unique kid and probably the only one, even in his crew, that could survive that level of poison. He's the only one, besides maybe Zoro, that dedicated to his cause that willpower changes the game. And don't tell me that willpower doesn't play a part in real life either, because cancer patients and quadriplegics can just shirk off what ails them if they need it. Mothers are able to lift trucks off their children with ease if they find themselves in that dire situation.

Zoro and Sanji take the air of normal humans, but are in no way normal and that's even stated in their "Monster Trio" title. Zoro more so than Sanji, but both are represented more as monsters than human. Sanji has basically weathered his kicks to be that strong over time, he's not just that strong magically. Zoro is barely human. That's shown with the inexplicable Asura thing he does, that even his crew has stated as not being human. It's more of a metaphor than outright stated if you can actually read into it.

Narutoverse people can walk on walls and water using chakra, but OP kids can't do that. Not in the slightest. Even Geppo isn't walking in the air. They have to literally kick the air to do so, which is why Sanji, the "normal human" can do it, because he's been portrayed as a kicker since character birth.

Everything Oda does follows a path. If you pay attention, it's not hard to understand. Most powers come from a Devil Fruit which genetically alters the consumer, even as far as to make them an actual element with a stream of consciousness.

It's explained. At least most of it. And if it isn't, the writer just hopes his audience understands that it's fiction and not everything needs to be explained.

[Maikeru D. Shinigami]

Zoro has been lifting weights for like 15-20 years.
Sanji was trained by Zeff.

There's the explanation.

Zoro isn't human, Sanji was trained by a guy who is barely human.

Exaggerated? By the feeble brains of humans sure, but this is fiction, it's One Piece. I'd much rather have this than have Oda make Luffy do everything like Naruto does with Naruto and Bleach does with Ichigo.

Oda is not required to follow earthly rules. Fiction is made for creativity. Complaining about something so petty that's against the writer's intention is unfair.

[Wooster]

What matters is that the author sticks by his rules. Was Zoro ever a normal human? no. Has Sanji not had immense foot strength,? no. Therefore, Oda letting Zoro gaining more superhuman powers is believable to the reader. Sanji using his feet to fly and create fire make sense as well. If you move an object fast enough it will catch fire after all. Oda doesn't waste his time explaining everything; he just shows it.

Having a hackneyed explanation, like chakra, isn't needed. Zoro and Sanji follow the rules of their universe.

Bonus note: Heavier objects do fall faster because air friction remains the same for similar sized and shaped objects. Newton's Second Law in action. Unless you think a balloon and bowling ball will fall at the same speed. :3

[mrsticky005]

Well I'm finally caught up with One Piece again.

Thoughts on this Punk Hazard arc...

Not too shabby.

Ok, the build up seems pretty interesting and it's cool to see all these big names getting involved. I like all the alliances and betrayals in this arc.

Caesar Clown and Monet are kinda annoying to me. Not the worst but not really
the best either. Vergo is fairly cool. But it's good to see that we're moving on
to bigger and better things.

Is it just me or is the arc sometimes hard to follow? Everyone is getting switched
they're running all over the place, who's backstabbing who, foreshadowing, etc.

Not to say that makes the arc bad by any means.

I still hate Fishman Island with a passion and still think 90% of it is needless.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by Wooster

What matters is that the author sticks by his rules. Was Zoro ever a normal human? no. Has Sanji not had immense foot strength,? no. Therefore, Oda letting Zoro gaining more superhuman powers is believable to the reader. Sanji using his feet to fly and create fire make sense as well. If you move an object fast enough it will catch fire after all. Oda doesn't waste his time explaining everything; he just shows it.

Having a hackneyed explanation, like chakra, isn't needed. Zoro and Sanji follow the rules of their universe.

Bonus note: Heavier objects do fall faster because air friction remains the same for similar sized and shaped objects. Newton's Second Law in action. Unless you think a balloon and bowling ball will fall at the same speed. :3

And that's what I have a problem with-there are pretty much no established rules in the OPverse so Oda can write his characters doing whatever he wants and no one cares. (An example of this is Usopp surviving and taking no lasting damage from getting hit in the head by a two ton mallet even though he hadn't shown anything to indicate him being a "monster" or superhuman before this).

Bonus note: Air friction resistance has a negligible effect in falling speeds in cases close to the earth/gound, bowling balls and balloons fall at different speeds because they have different masses

Originally Posted by Maikeru D. Shinigami

Complaining about something so petty that's against the writer's intention is unfair.

Well, I was just giving my opinion on one thing I personally didn't like about One Piece, I'm not saying that Oda's a bad writer because of it, I just don't like that personally. If I really wanted to dig on One Piece I would talk about how the fights are always over the top and lack imagination and how it's the most repetitive story I've ever read-the same thing happens in nearly every arc. (Luffy and crew reach a new island/area> they meet someone who will eventually be the next crew member but they don't want to or can't join for personal reasons> Luffy and crew meet an enemy pirate group> after a series of confrontations the whole island is in danger and only the Strawhats can save them> the Strawhats all face off against the enemy crew and Luffy takes on the captain> Strawhats win, the island is saved, new member officially joins and there is a celebratory feast)

Originally Posted by Devroux

If you haven't followed the manga for 650 freaking chapters, then you wouldn't know that Luffy is a unique kid and probably the only one, even in his crew, that could survive that level of poison. He's the only one, besides maybe Zoro, that dedicated to his cause that willpower changes the game. And don't tell me that willpower doesn't play a part in real life either, because cancer patients and quadriplegics can just shirk off what ails them if they need it. Mothers are able to lift trucks off their children with ease if they find themselves in that dire situation.

I don't want to seem confrontational, but as I personally know someone who has died of cancer I have to say that statement is both ignorant and offensive. Willpower definitely can play a roll in survival and recovery, but there are times when you don't have a chance no matter how much willpower you have. My point with the poison example is that it was completely unbelievable and unnecessary-we already know Luffy has a ton of willpower, you don't need to write in a bunch of coincidences (Someone willing and capable of saving Luffy just happens to live in the prison and on the floor the Luffy is taken to), hokey science (using hormones to boost the immune system and purge poison) and arbitrary low survival statistics (2-3%) to re-illustrate this point.

[Devroux]

Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage

I don't want to seem confrontational, but as I personally know someone who has died of cancer I have to say that statement is both ignorant and offensive. Willpower definitely can play a roll in survival and recovery, but there are times when you don't have a chance no matter how much willpower you have. My point with the poison example is that it was completely unbelievable and unnecessary-we already know Luffy has a ton of willpower, you don't need to write in a bunch of coincidences (Someone willing and capable of saving Luffy just happens to live in the prison and on the floor the Luffy is taken to), hokey science (using hormones to boost the immune system and purge poison) and arbitrary low survival statistics (2-3%) to re-illustrate this point.

It's your choice to take it as ignorant and offensive, even though it's nowhere near planned to be, but really, I don't care either. I never said that everyone was able to do it and I never said everyone was the same. All I said was the willpower can cause miracles.

The poisoning of Luffy was unnecessary? Wait, so... It was useless? It didn't stray from the introduction of the Chief Warden, who was a poison man with a pretty creative ability. And yes, it was creative. He's capable of oozing extremely toxic poisons from any part of his body, use that for offensive, defensive, and traveling purposes, and he also has a bit of comedy affect when he's got to constantly poo because of it. Luffy's poisoning didn't also lead to character development for Bon Clay, as they weren't becoming really great friends and Bon Clay wasn't striving to meet Ivankov. It didn't lead Luffy to meet someone who was his father's right hand at one point and didn't lead to strengthening Luffy's relationship with Bon Clay. It didn't lead Luffy to build a relationship with all of the okama because of his sheer willpower and ability to go against all odds, which, at the time, would have been escaping Impel Down to begin with.

And even if this was all true... It didn't even begin to scratch the surface of pulling an emotional reaction out of the audience? I mean, I felt it. Luffy was a badass and when he finally busted out, I was pretty amazed. Yeah, I knew he'd live, but maybe it'd be for having survived longer against the poison than they had thought, not shorter. There were several outcomes that could have come from it, but Oda chose one, even though I'm pretty positive he knew he could take it in many directions.

Also, for the story always being the same, you've got to be kidding me. Yeah, he ventures to some islands, gets some crew members, beats some strong guy, but that's not the length of it. You're looking at the basic make up of the temporary plots rather than how the plot is actually done. Naruto has one goal, and that's to beat the bad guys and save the world. Bleach has one goal, and that's to beat the bad guys and save Soul Society. One Piece, the overall plot, is not to beat the bad guy and save the world, but be the first one to the end of Grand Line and becoming free. It's a race and they're winning a prize. The temporary plots are building the crew, but within that they're housing backstories for all the characters, island plots, clues about Gold Roger, and so much more.

[Vivi]

Stories of HST:
<<Snipped until otherwise>>

Just saying.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by Vivi

Stories of HST:
<<Snipped until otherwise>>

Just saying.

Introducing new characters and locations =/= an infinitely expanding plot as evidenced by the very weak overarching plot and the same things happening in every arc of the story. OP is about 10x more derivative than Bleach, which is really saying something.

@Dev: I know you're a good guy and weren't trying to be offensive with your comment, but the way it was phrased seemed to imply that people with terminal illnesses could just get over them through willpower, which is just plain wrong. A person with strong will is more likely to continue their treatments and treat their body right, but it doesn't magically make the disease go away.

It's true that the poisoning introduced Ivankov and the okama, but that could have easily been handled differently and it was obvious that Luffy would recover early, not late. If he recovered at the rate Ivankov said he would have, Ace would've been moved to Marineford way before Luffy woke up.

I really don't see how finding One Piece and becoming Pirate King is any different than wanting to become Hokage. The Strawhats will also obviously eventually have the task of defeating the bad guy and saving the world, it certainly wouldn't deviate from Oda's formula-heck they've already been responsible for the people of Alabasta, Skypiea, Fishman Island, etc. As for some great plot outside of the cycle I mentioned earlier; I really don't see it. I'll grant you that Oda puts a lot of work into fleshing out the backstories of supporting characters, but that doesn't really do anything to drive the (almost nonexistent) overarching story. Over the course of almost 700 chapters Luffy has only made it half way through the Grand Line and found a few vague clues about Gold Roger and ancient civilizations. Having a strong central story isn't always necessary in making a great series (Cowboy Bebop is a testament to this), but when the individual adventures all have the same plot progression it gets stale fast.

Of course this is all just my opinion, and different story types appeal to different people. I generally prefer stories that have simple premises, clear structures, and fast paced plots that are continuously moving towards the final destination without too much gratuitous action and filler content (although I must admit I can be a sucker for fan service ).

[mrsticky005]

Here's how I see the plots.

Naruto is a bildungsroman and a large scale family drama (Senju vs Uchiha).
All conflict that matters can be summed up into Senju vs Uchiha.
Naruto's role is to bring this conflict to an end. However he must
learn from his own mistakes as well as those who failed before him (i.e Nagato).

One Piece is a race and a puzzle. Or quite simply: A treasure hunt.
All conflict that matters is somehow related to this treasure hunt.
It doesn't matter what One Piece is, what matters is that whoever
wins gets to call the shots since they will be king of the hill.
Every island is another clue to the treasure but each clue comes at a cost.

Bleach I would argue is the LEAST linear of plots. People always think they
got Bleach figured out and then they get "trolled". Kubo gets blamed
for "bad writing". But I say it's more a case of bad reading and people
looking at Bleach too linear. They think ok Ichigo defeats X and then it's over.
But it's not all that simple or rather that's not the point. Sure if Kubo really
wanted to he could have ended Bleach with Ichigo vs Aizen. But he didn't.
Why? Because that's not what Bleach is about. Bleach is a character study.
It's Ichigo's quest to find himself. Ichigo must conquer himself before
he can conquer his enemy.

[shinmarubountyhunter]

Originally Posted by Vivi

Stories of HST:
<<Snipped until otherwise>>

Just saying.

I've been telling people this and finally there's a picture to explain it for me.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Well I'm finally caught up with One Piece again.

Thoughts on this Punk Hazard arc...

Not too shabby.

Ok, the build up seems pretty interesting and it's cool to see all these big names getting involved. I like all the alliances and betrayals in this arc.

Caesar Clown and Monet are kinda annoying to me. Not the worst but not really
the best either. Vergo is fairly cool. But it's good to see that we're moving on
to bigger and better things.

Is it just me or is the arc sometimes hard to follow? Everyone is getting switched
they're running all over the place, who's backstabbing who, foreshadowing, etc.

Not to say that makes the arc bad by any means.

I still hate Fishman Island with a passion and still think 90% of it is needless.

It is a bit confusing, but they reason it is better than Fishman island is that it doesn't drag. This whole arc has been fast paced.

Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage

And that's what I have a problem with-there are pretty much no established rules in the OPverse so Oda can write his characters doing whatever he wants and no one cares. (An example of this is Usopp surviving and taking no lasting damage from getting hit in the head by a two ton mallet even though he hadn't shown anything to indicate him being a "monster" or superhuman before this).

Bonus note: Air friction resistance has a negligible effect in falling speeds in cases close to the earth/gound, bowling balls and balloons fall at different speeds because they have different masses

Everone can get hit by a mallet in One Piece and survive. People have been hit by Luffy's attacks and survive. That is consistent as wel.

Air friction is more important near the ground; there's more air there
Riiight, because they have different masses xD
In a vaccum, a bowling ball and a balloon(don't ask me how it doesn't pop) would fall at the same rate in a constant gravitational field.

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Here's how I see the plots.

Naruto is a bildungsroman and a large scale family drama (Senju vs Uchiha).
All conflict that matters can be summed up into Senju vs Uchiha.
Naruto's role is to bring this conflict to an end. However he must
learn from his own mistakes as well as those who failed before him (i.e Nagato).

One Piece is a race and a puzzle. Or quite simply: A treasure hunt.
All conflict that matters is somehow related to this treasure hunt.
It doesn't matter what One Piece is, what matters is that whoever
wins gets to call the shots since they will be king of the hill.
Every island is another clue to the treasure but each clue comes at a cost.

Bleach I would argue is the LEAST linear of plots. People always think they
got Bleach figured out and then they get "trolled". Kubo gets blamed
for "bad writing". But I say it's more a case of bad reading and people
looking at Bleach too linear. They think ok Ichigo defeats X and then it's over.
But it's not all that simple or rather that's not the point. Sure if Kubo really
wanted to he could have ended Bleach with Ichigo vs Aizen. But he didn't.
Why? Because that's not what Bleach is about. Bleach is a character study.
It's Ichigo's quest to find himself. Ichigo must conquer himself before
he can conquer his enemy.

Naruto was about a street rat making good. Now it is about destiny

One Piece is about jokes.

Bleach was Ghostbusters then it became convuluted, but still insanely dull.

[Bacon]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Well I'm finally caught up with One Piece again.

Thoughts on this Punk Hazard arc...

Not too shabby.

Ok, the build up seems pretty interesting and it's cool to see all these big names getting involved. I like all the alliances and betrayals in this arc.

Caesar Clown and Monet are kinda annoying to me. Not the worst but not really
the best either. Vergo is fairly cool. But it's good to see that we're moving on
to bigger and better things.

Is it just me or is the arc sometimes hard to follow? Everyone is getting switched
they're running all over the place, who's backstabbing who, foreshadowing, etc.

Not to say that makes the arc bad by any means.

I still hate Fishman Island with a passion and still think 90% of it is needless.

Punk hazard is like a good game of twister, with everyone entangled in everyone else's business. It started off as a simple, " Oh look a crazy deserted island" and lead up into a, " Supernova alliance omg smoker is back lets killl big mam arc, with a dragon kid". I rather like how chaotic it is and truth be told,the prospect of fighting an emperor is really cool.

Let's see if whitebeard was a one of a kind bastard or if his fellow emperors aren't all they are cracked up to be.

[l3thall3g3nd]

Hang on kishi completley changed what naruto was all about over over 50% through the series, naruto started off about a kid trying to change his destiny and proving that a underdog can win to becoming the golden child who was always meant to bring ever lasting peace and your saying oda doesn't explain things well?

Punk hazard is laws arc theres no doubt about it. Kishi take note not all side characters have to be useless for the main character to shine.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Everone can get hit by a mallet in One Piece and survive. People have been hit by Luffy's attacks and survive. That is consistent as wel.

Air friction is more important near the ground; there's more air there
Riiight, because they have different masses xD
In a vaccum, a bowling ball and a balloon(don't ask me how it doesn't pop) would fall at the same rate in a constant gravitational field.

Yeah, because they are similar in size/shape their different masses causes them to have different densities which affects their...air resistances...damnit Well, in the case of two objects with similar densities the effects of air resistance will be practically insignificant close to the ground. At any rate, the Chopper example is still terrible physics because he's at the height of his jump when he's attacked and activates Heavy Point. Due to the Second Law Chopper would actually (initially) fall slower due to his increased inertia. I did a 180, but still got across my point.