Ichigo & Isshin vs Naruto & Minato

[Noctis Arashi]

Not necessarily, the force of the two blasts could have amplified the space it took up.

Even if it didn't, ichigo tanked a comparable blast that wasn't too drastically smaller with nothing but a slight burn on his arm.

It's not anywhere near far fetched to say ichigo could survive a TBB and continue to fight.

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by Noctis Arashi

Not necessarily, the force of the two blasts could have amplified the space it took up.

Even if it didn't, ichigo tanked a comparable blast that wasn't too drastically smaller with nothing but a slight burn on his arm.

It's not anywhere near far fetched to say ichigo could survive a TBB and continue to fight.

Yes it was drastically smaller, the force required to destroy an actual mountain (which takes up far more space than the sinkhole Aizen created) is much greater. On top of that it wasn't a "slight burn" lol his arm got reduced to a brown, useless crisp. You think his entire body could take that. Like I said Ichigo was just so strong at that point losing an arm didn't matter, so he didn't care. He just stood there because nothing Aizen could do would fatally wound him.

[Ba_bamBam]

Wrong. After Aizen tried to kill him with his combined fragors or w.e and Ichigo broke it, in one panel his left arm was seen straight. The next panel he moved it and positioned it. Therefore, it's not useless. He could still move it and use it.

Point is, he survived a direct explosion of that magnitude with only damage being done to his left arm and was still capable of moving said arm.

I already mentioned this, but the tailed beast bombs destruction has a wider radius than Aizen's, but Aizen's also create a decent radius and it creates a much, much greater sinkhole. The ground beneath them is pure bedrock, so it's not as terrible as some of you make it out to be.

***Keep reading till the point where Ichigo uses mugetsu on Aizen. You can see the sink hole Aizen created in comparison to it's surrounding. Those aren't mountains but those are definitely big enough to be called hills. The sink hole was clearly many times bigger than those hills. We do not know the exact measurements but's not crazy to consider Aizen's attack a mountain buster.

[Godaime Kazekage]

JLI2 has pretty much said most of what I wanted to. All FTG Ichigo (and actually Ichigo in general) has is a lot of power and speed. Isshin is just a less good version of FTG Ichigo. Naruto and Minato are much more versatile than their opponents and BM Naruto has the power to at least oppose FTG Ichigo, even if he's not capable of outright beating him. Speed is equalized here so it's a non-factor (not that I think he could outspeed BM Naruto and Minato anyway). This just means that all Isshin and Ichigo can do is try to overpower Naruto and Minato with Getsuga Tensho and sword strikes.

The way I see things going are: Minato starts by throwing his kunai everywhere. During this time Naruto enters Bijuu Mode and starts charging a TBB and Ichigo and Isshin are charging up GT. Ichigo and Isshin fire off a double GT and Minato redirects it back at them with his ST Barrier. Right after getting hit by their own attacks Naruto fires off the TBB. Supposing Ichigo and Isshin survive this Naruto makes tons of RM and SM clones that constantly keep them busy with FRS and Giant Rasengan while Minato and Naruto summon the toads which can also help while Ma+Pa get genjutsu ready. Ichigo and Isshin have to deal with tons of clones and their mountain slicing FRS attacks. Again, assuming they survive all of these attacks it's all over when Ma+Pa finish prepping Frog Song.

Keep in mind there is no way in hell Ichigo or Isshin can hit Minato with speed equalized. He can jump from kunai to kunai all day and they have no way to hit him.

[Ba_bamBam]

If Naruto and the bleach team both blow up the area... what exactly do you think will happen to said setted kunais?
Also you can't just say this is what going to happen either, you can't decide the course of the battle.


The way you decided to course the battle is kind of biased in the fact that you don't at all consider how the toads are a complete non factor as well as the close since they can as easily be gone with a little finger flick from Isshin. So the clones and giant toads are a non factor. FRS attacks are not mountain slicing, be careful of how you choose your words.

Ma+Pa aren't exactly durable either, the wind force from Isshins finger flick is most likely already enough to injure them.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by Ba_bamBam

If Naruto and the bleach team both blow up the area... what exactly do you think will happen to said setted kunais?
Also you can't just say this is what going to happen either, you can't decide the course of the battle.

Minato has a Kunai shadow clone jutsu...he throws more. I'm just giving one possible way the battle could go and multiple back up strategies that Minato and Naruto could use if their initial plans don't work. Isshin and Ichigo have one strategy-overpower the enemy with GT or sword slashes-that's it. Minato and Naruto are both much more versatile and inventive than Ichigo and Isshin.


The way you decided to course the battle is kind of biased in the fact that you don't at all consider how the toads are a complete non factor as well as the close since they can as easily be gone with a little finger flick from Isshin. So the clones and giant toads are a non factor. FRS attacks are not mountain slicing, be careful of how you choose your words.

The toads are at least a distraction and RM clones are waaaaaay stronger than you give them credit for. One of Naruto's RM clones took down 3rd Raikage and helped fight Mu and Madara.

I may have embellished a bit on FRS (the anime portrays it a bit differently), but check Chapters 418 and 442. It cuts through those vegetative structures that looked like mountains in the anime and through half of a battlefield of large boulders created from Pain's CT.

Ma+Pa aren't exactly durable either, the wind force from Isshins finger flick is most likely already enough to injure them.
Ma+Pa aren't durable...they are almost constantly in Sage Mode and can also be protected by hiding within Naruto's Kyuubi cloak or riding on Minato's shoulders.

In yellow.

[Ba_bamBam]

I know the clones are strong themselves I never doubted their ability to fight, but their durability isn't high either. They get smacked with a good enough force and they're good as gone was what I meant. Isshins finger flick wind force was strong enough to blow Aizen away crashing through multiple skyscrapers and 100m+. Aizen who was capable of blocking Komamura's Bankai and not moving an inch got blown away. A quick one or two of em is enough to decimate the clones.

Good point with the Ma+Pa I'll give you that, but can they survive the shockwaves being brought upon them when Isshin/Ichigo are fighting them? Those two tend to level the ground they fight on.

I'm not sure if his technique will work with a shadow cloned Kunai, it will also be hard to be pick up after they've been scattered and blown away. By hard to pick up I meant an extra work load in which during that time many things could happen.
You can speculate that it will work, but there's no clear evidence and it's only speculation.
But I get where you're coming from and it's highly probable either way so I'll go with you on that one

I know what you're talking about and that was exactly what I was thinking when you mentioned FRS and mountain busting. It's most likely a cityblock level attack when it explodes.

Ichigo has shown to be very perceptive if you haven't noticed so he's not exactly just going to be wonderweiss and keep attacking and attacking relentlessly. For example, he easily analysed Gin's Bankai.

The thing about the two teams is that while Naruto does have the Tailed Beast bomb, it takes time to charge it and it's not hard to dodge either. While Isshin basically has a steroid version of Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho ready to be released at any given time and can be done easily at close range. Note that his Getsuga tensho decimated a large portion or Fake Karakura Town (If i spelt that right).

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by Ba_bamBam

I know the clones are strong themselves I never doubted their ability to fight, but their durability isn't high either. They get smacked with a good enough force and they're good as gone was what I meant. Isshins finger flick wind force was strong enough to blow Aizen away crashing through multiple skyscrapers and 100m+. Aizen who was capable of blocking Komamura's Bankai and not moving an inch got blown away. A quick one or two of em is enough to decimate the clones.

Good point with the Ma+Pa I'll give you that, but can they survive the shockwaves being brought upon them when Isshin/Ichigo are fighting them? Those two tend to level the ground they fight on.

I'm not sure if his technique will work with a shadow cloned Kunai, it will also be hard to be pick up after they've been scattered and blown away. By hard to pick up I meant an extra work load in which during that time many things could happen.
You can speculate that it will work, but there's no clear evidence and it's only speculation.
But I get where you're coming from and it's highly probable either way.

I know what you're talking about and that was exactly what I was thinking when you mentioned FRS and mountain busting. It's most likely a cityblock level attack when it explodes.

Ichigo has shown to be very perceptive if you haven't noticed so he's not exactly just going to be wonderweiss and keep attacking and attacking relentlessly. For example, he easily analysed Gin's Bankai.

The thing about the two teams is that while Naruto does have the Tailed Beast bomb, it takes time to charge it and it's not hard to dodge either. While Isshin basically has a steroid version of Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho ready to be released at any given time and can be done easily at close range. Note that his Getsuga tensho decimated a large portion or Fake Karakura Town (If i spelt that right).

LOL You and Godaime are both pretty biased for your respective shows. I kind of hate Bleach at this point but in debates I'm not really partial to either side.

Ichigo is very perceptive but Naruto is very deceptive. Smoke bombs, clones, shadow Rasenshuriken, and transformation. That's a little much for Ichigo all in one go.

Rasenshuriken destroys objects on a cellular level when it impacts. It's not the kind of thing Ichigo can just slice open, the explosions could very well injure him. The only real ways to counter it are absorption or dodging. Ichigo is capable of dodging but he doesn't know about Naruto's speed or ability to guide the technique.

My whole strategy has been around stalling until Ma and Pa prepare Frog Song. That doesn't seem impossible since neither side has been calling this a complete stomp. So Naruto pretty much has it. Isshin and Ichigo don't know to target the elder toads, that's the disadvantage of coming from a universe where fights are so straightforward (Ichigo and Isshin both only have one ability lol).

[Godaime Kazekage]

@JLI2: I'm not sure how my arguments are so biased for Naruto's side and yours aren't when they're pretty much the same things you've said. Yes, I prefer the Naruto manga to the Bleach manga and my fictional fight scenario was very pro-Naruto, but there was literally nothing to write for the Bleach side besides Minato and Naruto can't block their attacks or react quickly enough which Ba_bam was already arguing and I'm not really inclined to believe anyway.

The reason I enjoy the Naruto manga so much is that many of the fights are very inventive and the two sides have to put some thought into winning as opposed to manga like Bleach and DBZ where the victor wins by just powering up 95% of the time. This difference is pretty much epitomized in Naruto vs. Ichigo, where Naruto is a very inventive character who uses intelligent battle strategy and deception and has a wide arsenal of techniques; whereas Ichigo wins most of his battles by powering up (Bankai, Hollow-form, FGT) and has essentially one technique. I hate seeing people arguing autowin by powerscaling or saying speedblitz gg in debates, because it doesn't involve strategy at all and there's no fun in debating (it just gets into ridiculous "calculations" based on manga panels that the mangaka casually drew without thinking about at all). That being said, I can respect when one character is obviously in a different league than others-if the match had been FGT Ichigo vs. a weaker incarnation of Naruto like SM; Ichigo would obviously stomp. However, when there isn't a crystal clear power differential I'm going to argue for the side that has shown better battle strategy and has a wider range of techniques.

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage

@JLI2: I'm not sure how my arguments are so biased for Naruto's side and yours aren't when they're pretty much the same things you've said. Yes, I prefer the Naruto manga to the Bleach manga and my fictional fight scenario was very pro-Naruto, but there was literally nothing to write for the Bleach side besides Minato and Naruto can't block their attacks or react quickly enough which Ba_bam was already arguing and I'm not really inclined to believe anyway.

The reason I enjoy the Naruto manga so much is that many of the fights are very inventive and the two sides have to put some thought into winning as opposed to manga like Bleach and DBZ where the victor wins by just powering up 95% of the time. This difference is pretty much epitomized in Naruto vs. Ichigo, where Naruto is a very inventive character who uses intelligent battle strategy and deception and has a wide arsenal of techniques; whereas Ichigo wins most of his battles by powering up (Bankai, Hollow-form, FGT) and has essentially one technique.

That being said, I can respect when one character is obviously in a different league than others-if the match had been FGT Ichigo vs. a weaker incarnation of Naruto like SM; Ichigo would obviously stomp. However, when there isn't a crystal clear power differential I'm going to argue for the side that has shown better battle strategy and has a wider range of techniques.

Lol epic use of mr. green Yeah I was just pointing out that your scenario was pretty heavily favoring Naruto, I completely agree with the arguments you've been making but your scenario was just unrealistic.

While you had Naruto prepping TBB and Minato throwing kunai, Isshin and Ichigo were "charging up Getsuga Tensho." When Isshin's GT is instant and Dangai Ichigo doesn't even use GT. That's the only reason I thought you were being a tad biased. We still agree though.

I hate seeing people arguing autowin by powerscaling or saying speedblitz gg in debates, because it doesn't involve strategy at all and there's no fun in debating (it just gets into ridiculous "calculations" based on manga panels that the mangaka casually drew without thinking about at all).

^Thank you. I LOVE this. Summarizes my feelings on calcs perfectly.

[joon61]

So team ichigo wins?

[Ultimate combatant]

Originally Posted by joon61

So team ichigo wins?

Team Naruto wins!!!

Or at least arguments above heavily imply that!!!

[BMC1994]

Arguments above also heavily imply the opposite -.- i mean its a debate