Who is the strongest hokage ever?

[scallanan]

I would have to say the first hokage for a few reasons:

1) It has been said a couple of times during the shinobi world war arc that modern shinobi have become less powerful mainly due to alliances between the other villages, meaning that hashirama and many of the other powerful shinobi of his time must have been exceptionally strong.

2) Madara managed to defeat all five kage along with a naruto clone and other divisions. Onoki mentioned that the time he fought madara, madara was most likely only toying with them, and that the power he showed in their fight during the world war arc was immense. Tsunade also says "how could her grandfather battle someone with such strength". Hashirama beat madara with his MS along with the nine-tails, making him my number 1 choice in this thread. Madara himself thinks hashirama is the only one who could've beaten him.

3) Hashirama's powers were obviously very sought after, seeing many ninja implanting the first hokage's DNA to increase their strength. Having the 1sts cells implanted also allowed shinobi to access certain skills otherwise impossible to achieve.

4) Hashirama's medical ninjutsu is better than Tsunade's (who is revered for her medical nin skills!)

5) Hashirama was also exceptional in taijutsu, genjutsu, and sealing jutsus, and had a great understanding of most of the jutsu in the naruto story.

None of the other hokage's match up to this level of power. My 2nd choice would be minato despite not having seen much of his battles

[scallanan]

Also, it's a pity to see the fifth hokage being so weak. All that she has going is medical ninjutsu and brute strength, and she was saved a couple of times throughout the story.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Dragon Style

Actually Hiruzen was a great Hokage you should never doubt that he was,(IMO he was at best.... the 2nd worst hokage. I will explain) he is the Hokage that in my eyes best represented the will of fire.(thats cuz he introudced it the most cuz he has more screen time. He only said it once during the fight with Oro and to his grandson/son) There was no hokage that had made any many ties and was missed as much as him when they were gone.
(that's cuz he had the most screen time and was Hokage the longest. Hashirama is also missed and remebered many many times)

while it is implied they would have them, unless we seem them use those styles of ninjutsu we cannot say that they could.
(I agree he does not have water/earth NINJUTSU but he does have water/earth NATURES)

Haku's KG clearly states that it allows him not only to instantly turn water into ice, but make it from thin air. So with that no we cannot say that Haku can use wind style because he has never used them.
Exactly! Just like Hashirama who has not shwon water/earth ninjutsu Haku has not shown wind ninjutsu. Just because they do not have it does not mean they have them as chakra NATURES)

Since we have never seen Hashirama use earth or water style we cannot say that can use it because he doesn't even have hype for using them.
I never said he had water/earth ninjutsu I said he had Water/Earth STYLE which is different Style=Nature

This would be same as saying that Guren could use both earth and lightning style even though we have never seen her use them.
no not at all that is totally different. Crystal style is unknown of its components

You have to understand that KG does not require you to know certain elemental style of ninjutsu it simply requires you to have those chakra Natures within you so that you can mix them. Having a chakra nature and using a elemental jutsu are not the same they are similar, but not the same.
wow we were on the same page the hold time

I'm not really wrong because I was replying to certain post, not the ones after.

^????
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Reasons why Hiruzen was a crappy hokage

-Does not live up to hype!
If he was the strongest kage during his time how would he beat 3RK or Ononki??

-Could not kill Oro.... TWICE!!!!!!!!
The first time was obvious. You better kill that monster. He experimentedon hundreds of lives. It was obvious he was innoncent. You let your emotions get the best of you which is foolish. You put your emotions in front of the safety of others.
Again you still held back the 2nd time and still saw him as your pupil

-Did nothing during the Hyuuga innocedent
How did he help in any way?

-Ignorant of danzo
He even failed to watch over his own village. Danzo was planning Hiruzen's defeat right in the leaf village. Root was taking over the Anbu and making the leaf corrupt. He did not keep tabs on his villagers

-Uchiha Massacure
Hiruzen was a poor leader. Even though he was out voted by people that were fodder level and unknown in part 1 overruled the hokage! THAT IS NOT COOL! He is the hokage he should have final say and not let others tell him what to do

-Weak Heart
Hiruzen agreed to let Saskue win. If Saskue was dead Oro would never find the perfect body and would not be so aggressive towards the leaf. Hiruzen also should have betrayed Itachi and killed him on the spot

-Fooled by gennin
Naruto of all people was able to steal the hidden scroll from the Hokage house and

Who do you think is the best?

[Dragon Style]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

^????
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Reasons why Hiruzen was a crappy hokage

-Does not live up to hype!
If he was the strongest kage during his time how would he beat 3RK or Ononki??

See this is where people make many mistakes, just because Hiruzen was the 3rd Hokage does not men that he and the 3rd Raikage were Kages at the same time it simply means that the third raikage was the made raikage third, for all we know he could have been Raikage during Tobirama's times and Onoki was made Tsuchikage long before the Second Hokage even made Hiruzen Hokage

-Could not kill Oro.... TWICE!!!!!!!!
The first time was obvious. You better kill that monster. He experimentedon hundreds of lives. It was obvious he was innoncent. You let your emotions get the best of you which is foolish. You put your emotions in front of the safety of others.
Again you still held back the 2nd time and still saw him as your pupil

Wrong he only failed to kill Ororchimaru once bacause of his emotions, the second time he was fully prepared to kill Orochimaru or die trying and when he could not he at least tried to make sure that Ororchimaru could no one any harm. Orochimaru was only able to fight Hiruzen because he was old, just think about that. Not even the undying Orochimaru was willing to face Hiruzen while he was young

-Did nothing during the Hyuuga innocedent
How did he help in any way?

Hiruzen was there to see if there was another way to go about it, but in the end it was the Hyuga clans choice. You are not Hiruzen, you did not have to choose between sending a man to his death to save your village or going to all out war with another village which rather they won or not would cause many more deaths than his

-Ignorant of danzo
He even failed to watch over his own village. Danzo was planning Hiruzen's defeat right in the leaf village. Root was taking over the Anbu and making the leaf corrupt. He did not keep tabs on his villagers

Hiruzen knew about Danzo, however, Hiruzen was a man of peace and would try to work things out amongst the people in his village, this you know to be true.

-Uchiha Massacure
Hiruzen was a poor leader. Even though he was out voted by people that were fodder level and unknown in part 1 overruled the hokage! THAT IS NOT COOL! He is the hokage he should have final say and not let others tell him what to do

You did not read this correctly, if you did you would know that it had nothing to do with a vote. Hiruzen was planning on talking to the Uchiha to try and resolve things peacefully with them. Danzo knew this to be true so before Hiruzen could even have the chance to speak with the Uchiha, he send Itachi in to kill them. Danzo gave Itachi a choice to either kill the Uchiha himself and spare his brother or let the Anbu do it who would have killed all of them and spared no one. Hiruzen tried to resolve that situation, but sadly he was too late

-Weak Heart
Hiruzen agreed to let Saskue win. If Saskue was dead Oro would never find the perfect body and would not be so aggressive towards the leaf. Hiruzen also should have betrayed Itachi and killed him on the spot

What are you talking about Sasuke won his matches fair and square, plus this is another example of you not being in his shoes. Now let's weigh this shall we. No one knew about Orochimaru body switching jutsu so they had no idea what his plans for Sasuke really were. So either let the boy win and try to figure it out or don't let the boy win and risk Orochimaru destroying the village without any clue of what he might be up to

-Fooled by gennin
Naruto of all people was able to steal the hidden scroll from the Hokage house and

Hiruzen was never fooled, if you read later on in the manga though I believe it was no mentioned until part two, you find out that it was all an act and that Hiruzen actually ordered the ninja to let Naruto steal the scroll, because he suspected Mizuki of trying to steal it, but he needed to lure him out confirm his suspensions before bringing him in

Who do you think is the best?

You really need to get that under control and stopping putting down every Hokage that isn't Hashirama, it's fanwanking and I don't want you get in trouble for being bias.

Any Mistakes Hiruzen made were not due to stupidity, but from being a good person who sought out peace rather than conflict.

I'm not very sure who I would consider the best Hokage because they've all got something good about them.

Hashirama was a very powerful ninja who literally built the village

Tobirama created many programs that would help the village build itself up long after he was gone.

Hiruzen was kind leader who worked hard towards peace that was very, very smart.

Minato saved the village from Kurama from Obito and Kurama, along wiht inventing the Rasengon and Flying Thunder God. A move that Naruto would be boned without.

Tsunade is by far the best medical ninja that ever lived and she advanced the medical core far beyond what anyone even thought it could be.

Danzo if we are counting, is the worst Hokage I've ever seen, I mean what decent Kage would plan to work with the enemy to destroy his won village, the man had absolutely no will of fire as far as I could see.

However the best Hokage in my eyes would be Tsunade, I find medical care to be fr more important than anything else the other Hokage have done.

I'm not saying that they didn't do good, but still.

[Kirin Inuzuka]

OK is this for who the strongest or the best?

If we're talking strongest then the first, but if we are talking the best then I like the third.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Dragon Style

You really need to get that under control and stopping putting down every Hokage that isn't Hashirama, it's fanwanking and I don't want you get in trouble for being bias.
wow I love how you think you know me when you don't I don't put down tsunade. And you can even ask GOdaime kazekage I don't wank I just give credit tithe best hokage

Any Mistakes Hiruzen made were not due to stupidity, but from being a good person who sought out peace rather than conflict.
i did not say it was stupid. But a good leader should put his feelings away for one moment. His feelings cost hundreds of lives. He did not need to kill him but defeat him. This is the job of a hokage.

I'm not very sure who I would consider the best Hokage because they've all got something good about them.
lol just pick who has the best good traits

Hashirama was a very powerful ninja who literally built the village
he had help building the village and he was not hokage yet so it does not count

Tobirama created many programs that would help the village build itself up long after he was gone.
he was also the weakest hokage. He has little feats and created a sinister Jutsu. He did not trust the uchiha which is why the police force was made. He had the easiest death

Hiruzen was kind leader who worked hard towards peace that was very, very smart.
[B]how was he smart? Being nice does not do much but he did inspire others. I he was so kind he would have be nicer to naruto[B]

Minato saved the village from Kurama from Obito and Kurama, along wiht inventing the Rasengon and Flying Thunder God. A move that Naruto would be boned without.
bias much? He could not do that without kushina. Plus this is the only thing he did. Everyone protected the village at one point this does not make him special. Madras is a bigger threat than obito.plus minato had help from the village while HASHIRAMA fought only with minor assistance from mito.

Tsunade is by far the best medical ninja that ever lived and she advanced the medical core far beyond what anyone even thought it could be.
but she is weak and she is controlled by naruto. She is also a drunk but everyone needs to let loose a lil right?

Danzo if we are counting, is the worst Hokage I've ever seen, I mean what decent Kage would plan to work with the enemy to destroy his won village, the man had absolutely no will of fire as far as I could see.
everythin he did was try to improve the village... Just sayin ppl don't u sees tabs him but he is not hokage so no commet

However the best Hokage in my eyes would be Tsunade, I find medical care to be fr more important than anything else the other Hokage have done.

I'm not saying that they didn't do good, but still.

Wow so one thing makes tsunade that great?!?!?
She did not even fight pain. All she did was heal ppl but she could not wen protect most of them. Higher ups did not agree with her and root rebelled against her. She did not keep good enough tabs on root either. She puts a lot of her work on shizune. My main issue with her is when the village needed her most she was unable or not very helpful

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[Dragon Style]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Wow so one thing makes tsunade that great?!?!?
She did not even fight pain. All she did was heal ppl but she could not wen protect most of them. Higher ups did not agree with her and root rebelled against her. She did not keep good enough tabs on root either. She puts a lot of her work on shizune. My main issue with her is when the village needed her most she was unable or not very helpful

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I'm telling you what you are doing by official rule standards, I'm trying to help you out so don't snippy with me just because I don't want you to get kicked off the site.

Even if he did not defeat Orochimaru he tried to take away his ninjutsu the only thing he cold use to hurt people and in all honesty and truth there should have been no reason for him to be able to use ninjutsu on his own safer that because no matter what body he switched to the souls of his arms were supposed to be gone.

I know when Hashirama made the leaf village, but he still made it, he built the entire thing with his wood style, he may have had help in other area's of building the village but that part he did all on his own since there is no one else who had wood style at that time.

Actually when you look at it the weakest death would have been Hashirama since he was apparently killed by a fodder ninja. None of the Hokage were weak, I know what all of their mistakes were and quite honestly at this moment and time I do not care since I was naming a few good things everyone had done.

What are you talking about Hiruzen was nothing, but nice to Naruto, now was he stern with him when he acted out, yes he was, but I fail to see where Hiruzen was not kind to Naruto. Hiruzen was plenty smart, he was the one who made the scroll of sealing a memorized every jutsu within his village to know them inside and out, pro's and cons.

I'm not being bias because I never said that Hashirama didn't protect the village from Madara, but since you want to be technical about it Hashirama would not have been able to defeat Madara without Mito since it is a proven fact that everything he knows about sealing it thanks to Mito, so without her he would never have sealed Kurama or the other 8 beast. Now think about that. Reguardless he still invented the Rasengon and Flying Thunder God.

Once again none of the Hokage are weak, she is not controlled by Naruto, Naruto is simply restoring her to way she once was. She believes in him and that is all.

I don't care what he was trying to do a good Hokage would never dream of destroying his own village.

Tsunade was worried about the well being of her village and was the only capable of healing people on that scale. She may be Hokage, but she is still a medical ninja, her job is heal first and fight second which is what she did and even though she wasted all of her chakra healing people she was still willing to fight Pain.

Without the medical core thousands of the ninja in the leaf would be dead severely injured to point that they would never be able to protect the village again.

She kept good enough tabs on the anbu root which can't really blame her for because root had already been made long before she became hokage and while she was gone. She knew Danzo was up to something, she always did, but spying on the man who has his own anbu force is not a simple as you may think.

The Anbu Root is a group of ninja orphans raised and trained by Danzo since they were young, they know nothing else, but to obey Danzo so of course they rebelled against her when Danzo ordered it.

She only pushes off the non-important boring paperwork on Shizune, everything that is important and in need of her attention is handled by her personally.

Yes that one thing made Tsunade the best Hokage in my eyes, because it is my choice and advancing the medical core has helped far more in my eyes than anything else, without the use of medical ninjutsu, thousands would be dead.

I'm trying to pretend like I know you, but I actually talked to mods and admins around here and I know for a fact that a lot of them, not just in the BG's but everywhere think that you are nothing more than a dense and dumb child who is not a very good debater and contributes next to nothing to the forum because most of your post are nothing, but spam.

Now do I believe all of these things about you, no I don't necessarily think all or any of these things are true. However, I also know for a fact that a lot of them are getting very tired of you and they advised me that if I was close to you to knock some sense into you or else sooner or later you were going to get perma-banned and since I do not want you to get banned from site I was telling you what you were doing by official forum rule standards because I do not think that you are making them mad of purpose.

I'm trying to help YOU out and don't usually get upset, but I don't appreciate when people get snippy with me for trying to help them.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Dragon Style

I'm telling you what you are doing by official rule standards, I'm trying to help you out so don't snippy with me just because I don't want you to get kicked off the site.
ight
Even if he did not defeat Orochimaru he tried to take away his ninjutsu the only thing he cold use to hurt people and in all honesty and truth there should have been no reason for him to be able to use ninjutsu on his own safer that because no matter what body he switched to the souls of his arms were supposed to be gone.
true but what about the first time? Hiruzen should have finished it then. There is no excuse that oro got away. Hiruzen did not even know that oro was doin expedients for a long time

I know when Hashirama made the leaf village, but he still made it, he built the entire thing with his wood style, he may have had help in other area's of building the village but that part he did all on his own since there is no one else who had wood style at that time.
ight ur givin props to my MAN so I'm not gonna start

Actually when you look at it the weakest death would have been Hashirama since he was apparently killed by a fodder ninja. None of the Hokage were weak, I know what all of their mistakes were and quite honestly at this moment and time I do not care since I was naming a few good things everyone had done.
i knew you were gonna say this but we don't really know how he died plus HASHIRAMA was no hokage the. So that does not count

What are you talking about Hiruzen was nothing, but nice to Naruto, now was he stern with him when he acted out, yes he was, but I fail to see where Hiruzen was not kind to Naruto. Hiruzen was plenty smart, he was the one who made the scroll of sealing a memorized every jutsu within his village to know them inside and out, pro's and cons.
is hiruzen book smart... Yea. But not smart where it counts. It took him a long time to realize that oro was dpi evil acts. Naruto was able to steal the scroll right under his nose. And Danzo was busy setting up root

I'm not being bias because I never said that Hashirama didn't protect the village from Madara, but since you want to be technical about it Hashirama would not have been able to defeat Madara without Mito since it is a proven fact that everything he knows about sealing it thanks to Mito, so without her he would never have sealed Kurama or the other 8 beast. wow are you serious I already said that you are the one who left out kushina btw HASHIRAMA needed help from one other person while minato needed the help of the whole villageNow think about that. Regular less he still invented the Rasengon and Flying Thunder God.
so HASHIRAMA invented wood style and the first/best medical user of his time and established/improved sealing techs

Once again none of the Hokage are weak, she is not controlled by Naruto, Naruto is simply restoring her to way she once was. She believes in him and that is all.


I don't care what he was trying to do a good Hokage would never dream of destroying his own village.

Tsunade was worried about the well being of her village and was the only capable of healing people on that scale. She may be Hokage, but she is still a medical ninja, her job is heal first and fight second which is what she did and even though she wasted all of her chakra healing people she was still willing to fight Pain.

Without the medical core thousands of the ninja in the leaf would be dead severely injured to point that they would never be able to protect the village again.

She kept good enough tabs on the anbu root which can't really blame her for because root had already been made long before she became hokage and while she was gone. She knew Danzo was up to something, she always did, but spying on the man who has his own anbu force is not a simple as you may think.

The Anbu Root is a group of ninja orphans raised and trained by Danzo since they were young, they know nothing else, but to obey Danzo so of course they rebelled against her when Danzo ordered it.

She only pushes off the non-important boring paperwork on Shizune, everything that is important and in need of her attention is handled by her personally.

Yes that one thing made Tsunade the best Hokage in my eyes, because it is my choice and advancing the medical core has helped far more in my eyes than anything else, without the use of medical ninjutsu, thousands would be dead.

I'm trying to pretend like I know you, but I actually talked to mods and admins around here and I know for a fact that a lot of them, not just in the BG's but everywhere think that you are nothing more than a dense and dumb child who is not a very good debater and contributes next to nothing to the forum because most of your post are nothing, but spam.

Now do I believe all of these things about you, no I don't necessarily think all or any of these things are true. However, I also know for a fact that a lot of them are getting very tired of you and they advised me that if I was close to you to knock some sense into you or else sooner or later you were going to get perma-banned and since I do not want you to get banned from site I was telling you what you were doing by official forum rule standards because I do not think that you are making them mad of purpose.

I'm trying to help YOU out and don't usually get upset, but I don't appreciate when people get snippy with me for trying to help them.

Why is HASHIRAMA the best?

He always protected the village no matter what. He took down the most powerful uchiha time and time again. Not only that he took down the most powerful uchiha AND the most powerful bijju at the same time. No other hokage defeated such a powerful threat. Hashirama even took out kakazu easilySo one of the reasons that he is the best is cuz he
Is the strongest thus best at protecting the village

HASHIRAMA was respected and feared . Only Madara and a foolish Kakashi tried to take him down. Even most of the uchiha respected him. No other villages dared to figh when he was in charge. When HASHIRAMA was hokage it was a peaceful time.

HASHIRAMA is a peacemaker. He had the power to take powerful bijju. Unselfishly instead of keeping to keep the bijju he gave them to other villages as a sign if peace. No other hokage tried to make peace with that many villages.

HASHIRAMA inspired every leaf shinobi. He was the first and inspired many with the will of fire. Yamato would not be who he is without him. Without him there would be no village

[Bazk]

why is everyone do bad to hiruzen
he was admired as the God of Shinobi in his prime and
Enma said when he was fighting with Orochimaru, saying that it was miserable compared to his prime,
he was old and if you compare people like this it has to be in their prime

[PrinceofPeace]

HASHIRAMA was compared to the sage of six paths most ppl thought he was a fairy tale that hype is way better than hiruzen and HASHIRAMA lives up to most of his hype

[Bazk]

[QUOTE=PrinceofPeace;6347254]Why is HASHIRAMA the best?

He always protected the village no matter what.

yeah? because thats a big part of being hokage, 2nd sacrifised himself so people wouldnt die, and the 3rd defended the village also killing himself in the process, tsunade dont have a lower body and thinks about other people first

[Bazk]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

HASHIRAMA was compared to the sage of six paths most ppl thought he was a fairy tale that hype is way better than hiruzen and HASHIRAMA lives up to most of his hype

when was he compared to him?

[Crair Uchiha]

My opinion Tobirama was pretty cool, but I think they all had unique abilities!

[Bazk]

and i bet when he did the series he made madara way to powerfull so he had to make the 1st even better

[PrinceofPeace]

Idk it was stated by kabuto and Madara Ib HASHIRAMA's abilities. It was in the anime and on natruopedia and someone in the manga that I am trying to fibd

[Dragon Style]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Why is HASHIRAMA the best?

He always protected the village no matter what. He took down the most powerful uchiha time and time again. Not only that he took down the most powerful uchiha AND the most powerful bijju at the same time. No other hokage defeated such a powerful threat. Hashirama even took out kakazu easilySo one of the reasons that he is the best is cuz he
Is the strongest thus best at protecting the village

HASHIRAMA was respected and feared . Only Madara and a foolish Kakashi tried to take him down. Even most of the uchiha respected him. No other villages dared to figh when he was in charge. When HASHIRAMA was hokage it was a peaceful time.

HASHIRAMA is a peacemaker. He had the power to take powerful bijju. Unselfishly instead of keeping to keep the bijju he gave them to other villages as a sign if peace. No other hokage tried to make peace with that many villages.

HASHIRAMA inspired every leaf shinobi. He was the first and inspired many with the will of fire. Yamato would not be who he is without him. Without him there would be no village

Hashirama did not invent the woodstyle, it has been stated many times that he was born with it, that's like saying that Madara invented the sharingan.

Hashirama was indeed the Hokage when he died because it was stated that Tobirama had not become the Hokage until after his brother died and if we really want to go off of who was Hokage when they died to try and say which Hokage was weak then you really are being bias because Tobirama was not the hokage when he died, Hiruzen was. Regardless of the fact that we do not know how Hashirama died, he was the only Hokage who's death was not even important enough to go into detail on.

I can see that you obviously don't read because I already explained to you that Naruto stealing the scroll was apart of Hiruzens plan. If we really want to get into who didn't realize what then why didn't Hashirama know that Madara was indeed still alive?

Once again Hashirama was born with the wood style he did not invent it, he never established or improved sealing tech's since it was already said that he learned everything he knows about seals for the Uzumaki.

Hashirama may have faced Madara by himself, but in Minato's time they had no choice, but to help him. Madara did not threaten the life of Hashirama's child and Kurama was not summoned in the village so he could attack it. Madara met Hashirama in what would be called the valley of the end to face him and kill him before he went on to the leaf so you're argument on that end really has no point.

Let me correct you because obviously you have not been reading the Manga right. Hashirama never defeated Madara time and time again because it was stated that every encounter they had always ended in a draw, when he faced him for the last time was when he finally defeated him and it was just barely, plus he fail to finish the job. It was also stated that he was nearly killed by Kakuzu, but managed fight him off to the point were Kakuzu was forced to abandon the mission so I have no idea where you are getting this "with ease" stuff from.

This is not true, it was not peaceful in Hashirama's time, if that were true, then he would not have been killed in battle, if that were true the waterfall village would not have sent Kakuzu to kill him. Madara would not have tried to destroy the leaf. Saying that Hashirama was feared and respected means nothing because every Kage is feared and respected, the only reason that there was even brief peace while Hashirama was around was not because people didn't dare to step to him, it was because lie many others, at the time everyone was just tired of fighting which Hashirama quickly put and end to when he gave everyone Bijuu. And I know what you're going to say, that it was good plan, that they couldn't have kept them all, there would have been war anyway, but I really don't care about that because if had not been for his plan then people would not have known that Bijuu could be controlled or tamed, they would not have feared the other villages coming after them for their Bijuu or gotten greedy enough to try and take the other Bijuu for themselves. The Uzumaki village would not have been made target for helping Hashirama seal the Bijuu away and the leaf would not have been targeted because of Hashirama.

Also Kakashi wasn't even born while Hashirama was around.

This is also not true, Tobirama tried to make peace with the cloud, but that was ruined by the silver and gold brothers. Hiruzen tried to make peace with everyone and even made a treaty of alliance and kept good on his end to try and make peace. Minato try to change the way people of thought about Jinchuuiki so they wouldn't be thought of as nothing more than weapons, but as people.

Yes I know Hashirama built the leaf, however building buildings is not the only thing that matters, even without Hashirama's wood style the buildings would have came eventually, it might have taken longer, but they would be there. Hashirama was not the first or only one to teach people about the will of fire, the will of fire was started with younger son and passed down to the Senju which means that this was an ideal shared by all the Senju which means that the Senju taught the people of the village about the will of fire.

You see this is what I'm talking about right here, at least I give all the Hokage their fair shake, but you seem to do nothing, but every Hokage down unless they are Hashirama. Prime example, if someone simply says something good about another Hokage, you for whatever reason seem to feel the need to tell them how awful or crappy a Hokage they were, they were weak or some other thing, but when someone tell you about how Hashirama was not so great, you seem to feel the need to disregard any mistakes he made by trying to play them off as if were not really mistakes.

My choice is still Tsunade, so you can either live with that or don't.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

HASHIRAMA was compared to the sage of six paths most ppl thought he was a fairy tale that hype is way better than hiruzen and HASHIRAMA lives up to most of his hype

You cannot prove that Hiruzen did not live up to his hype because they never showed Hiruzen in his prime.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Dragon Style

Hashirama did not invent the woodstyle, it has been stated many times that he was born with it, that's like saying that Madara invented the sharingan.
not really cuz HASHIRAMA is the only known and first known person to use wood style and no other senju could . The sharigan was something that is a KG and passed down. Plus we do not know who activated the sharigan first also the so6p and jubbi had a type of sharigan but I gotta check

Hashirama was indeed the Hokage when he died because it was stated that Tobirama had not become the Hokage until after his brother died and if we really want to go off of who was Hokage when they died to try and say which Hokage was weak then you really are being bias because Tobirama was not the hokage when he died, Hiruzen was. Regardless of the fact that we do not know how Hashirama died, he was the only Hokage who's death was not even important enough to go into detail on.
wow jut because we have not seen it. Yet does not mean it was not vi

I can see that you obviously don't read because I already explained to you that Naruto stealing the scroll was apart of Hiruzens plan. If we really want to get into who didn't realize what then why didn't Hashirama know that Madara was indeed still alive?
when was this apart of his plan? Also a kid that is not a gennin stealing a scroll is much more pathetic than a S-rank strongest uchiha surving Death. Yes Hashirama was fooled but he protected the village which was his job and he tamed Kyubi. Hashirama faced a more difficult threat so these things are not even compareable

Once again Hashirama was born with the wood style he did not invent it, he never established or improved sealing tech's since it was already said that he learned everything he knows about seals for the Uzumaki.
so what about the First Hokage's necklace? That was his and Uzumaki's were not involved. Hashirama is the 1st wood style user.

Hashirama may have faced Madara by himself, but in Minato's time they had no choice, but to help him. Madara did not threaten the life of Hashirama's child and Kurama was not summoned in the village so he could attack it. Madara met Hashirama in what would be called the valley of the end to face him and kill him before he went on to the leaf so you're argument on that end really has no point.
Madara is still a bigger threat than obito. Hashirama even did more damage to Madara. The Point is Hashirama protected the village by himself from threats. Hashirama did not let Madara come close to the village. This is comparable just like you we were comparing the scroll of Madara surviving

Let me correct you because obviously you have not been reading the Manga right. Hashirama never defeated Madara time and time again because it was stated that every encounter they had always ended in a draw, when he faced him for the last time was when he finally defeated him and it was just barely, plus he fail to finish the job.
the point is Hashirama defeated him. Hashirama was tricked but his objective was to protect the village.
It was also stated that he was nearly killed by Kakuzu, but managed fight him off to the point were Kakuzu was forced to abandon the mission so I have no idea where you are getting this "with ease" stuff from.
Kakazu lost thats that.
When I said defeat time and time again I did not mean in battle. In being respected and becoming Hokage Hashirama defeated Madara every time.... what did Madara beat Hashirama at????

This is not true, it was not peaceful in Hashirama's time, if that were true, then he would not have been killed in battle, if that were true the waterfall village would not have sent Kakuzu to kill him. Madara would not have tried to destroy the leaf. Saying that Hashirama was feared and respected means nothing because every Kage is feared and respected, the only reason that there was even brief peace while Hashirama was around was not because people didn't dare to step to him, it was because lie many others, at the time everyone was just tired of fighting which Hashirama quickly put and end to when he gave everyone Bijuu.
you right I wrong ^
And I know what you're going to say, that it was good plan, that they couldn't have kept them all, there would have been war anyway, but I really don't care about that because if had not been for his plan then people would not have known that Bijuu could be controlled or tamed, they would not have feared the other villages coming after them for their Bijuu or gotten greedy enough to try and take the other Bijuu for themselves. The Uzumaki village would not have been made target for helping Hashirama seal the Bijuu away and the leaf would not have been targeted because of Hashirama.
idk what you are saying ? Are you saying that keeping them would have been a better idea ? If Hashirama did not tame it what could he have done?

Also Kakashi wasn't even born while Hashirama was around.
agreed

This is also not true, Tobirama tried to make peace with the cloud, but that was ruined by the silver and gold brothers. Hiruzen tried to make peace with everyone and even made a treaty of alliance and kept good on his end to try and make peace. Minato try to change the way people of thought about Jinchuuiki so they wouldn't be thought of as nothing more than weapons, but as people.
yeah tired yet failed. Plus Hashirama tried to make peace with multiple villages.

Yes I know Hashirama built the leaf, however building buildings is not the only thing that matters, even without Hashirama's wood style the buildings would have came eventually, it might have taken longer, but they would be there.
I feel the same way with Tobirama and how he orgainized the village. But it is much more than building buildings (lol I like saying that) to start somesomething out of nothing and to begin anew and joining a country is not something anyone can do
Hashirama was not the first or only one to teach people about the will of fire, the will of fire was started with younger son and passed down to the Senju which means that this was an ideal shared by all the Senju which means that the Senju taught the people of the village about the will of fire.
yeah HH and I already went over this and I was mistaken

You see this is what I'm talking about right here, at least I give all the Hokage their fair shake, but you seem to do nothing, but every Hokage down unless they are Hashirama. Prime example, if someone simply says something good about another Hokage, you for whatever reason seem to feel the need to tell them how awful or crappy a Hokage they were, they were weak or some other thing, but when someone tell you about how Hashirama was not so great, you seem to feel the need to disregard any mistakes he made by trying to play them off as if were not really mistakes.

My choice is still Tsunade, so you can either live with that or don't.
lol chilllllllllzzzzzz
I am not trying to change your opinon I'm just sayin



You cannot prove that Hiruzen did not live up to his hype because they never showed Hiruzen in his prime.
well Hashirama lived up to most of his just sayien but agreed^. He did not do enough with his power IMO

In short why Hashirama is a BOSS

Minato- least fav hokage. He only saved the village once!!!!!

Tobirama-2nd least fav hokage. The only thing he did was orgainze the village...... which anyone could have done. Plus he did not trust the Uchiha which is way he built the Kohona Police force which caused lots of issues.

Hiruzen-3rd Hokage and 3rd fav Hokage. He was the longest regining Hokage. He did not do much while ruling IMO. I give him credit for
-inspirng thousands
-lots of hype
-personality
But he was I guess TOO kind
-Oro (he knew he was evil and Oro was doing evil experiements without Hiruzen's knowledge. )
-Uchiah Massacure (He should have been more active. he should have made a decision and quickly acted on it)
-Danzo (acted right under his nose. He corrupted the ANBU to form root and was in bussiness with Oro)
-Teachings ( All of his students left the Leaf)
-PERV (lol he fell to Sexi Jutsu)
-Hyuuga affirms (should have been more proactive)
-Was not prepared enough for the sount/sand attack (many lives were took even though they won)
I just think he did more harm then good

Tsunade- People hate on her too much. She protected the village and healed the people which is the true job of hokage. She made major improvents in Medical core and helped rebuild the village twice. She also healed many vital ninja (KAKASHI). I just wish she was stronger. She is not very respected and ROOT got the better of her.

HASHIRAMA- Honestly what did this guy do wrong?!?!
-Respected and Feared ( even the Uchiha's worked with him and even left Madara for Hashriama. Hashirama did not treat the Uchiha unfairly. His name brought fear to others and made other villages stay at bay.)

-POWER ( the tamer of the bijju. The most powerful creatures in the world. He defeated all of them and unselfishly gave them to others. If the bijju stayed then it would be just to dangerous. Other villages would want to take them and the bijju would be too hard to protect or control. Konoha would be hated overall)

-Protection ( the village never reciecved harm or was in serious danger.)

The only wrong thing he did was that he did not know Madara surived with his DNA.

------------------------
Quote from Narutpedia that proves that his hype says he was stronger than all of the 5 kages at the time of his death (which includes Onoki and Ay)

Spoiler:

Even in his old age, he was also said to be the strongest of all the five Kage at the time of his death

[Dragon Style]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

In short why Hashirama is a BOSS

Minato- least fav hokage. He only saved the village once!!!!!

Tobirama-2nd least fav hokage. The only thing he did was orgainze the village...... which anyone could have done. Plus he did not trust the Uchiha which is way he built the Kohona Police force which caused lots of issues.

Hiruzen-3rd Hokage and 3rd fav Hokage. He was the longest regining Hokage. He did not do much while ruling IMO. I give him credit for
-inspirng thousands
-lots of hype
-personality
But he was I guess TOO kind
-Oro (he knew he was evil and Oro was doing evil experiements without Hiruzen's knowledge. )
-Uchiah Massacure (He should have been more active. he should have made a decision and quickly acted on it)
-Danzo (acted right under his nose. He corrupted the ANBU to form root and was in bussiness with Oro)
-Teachings ( All of his students left the Leaf)
-PERV (lol he fell to Sexi Jutsu)
-Hyuuga affirms (should have been more proactive)
-Was not prepared enough for the sount/sand attack (many lives were took even though they won)
I just think he did more harm then good

Tsunade- People hate on her too much. She protected the village and healed the people which is the true job of hokage. She made major improvents in Medical core and helped rebuild the village twice. She also healed many vital ninja (KAKASHI). I just wish she was stronger. She is not very respected and ROOT got the better of her.

HASHIRAMA- Honestly what did this guy do wrong?!?!
-Respected and Feared ( even the Uchiha's worked with him and even left Madara for Hashriama. Hashirama did not treat the Uchiha unfairly. His name brought fear to others and made other villages stay at bay.)

-POWER ( the tamer of the bijju. The most powerful creatures in the world. He defeated all of them and unselfishly gave them to others. If the bijju stayed then it would be just to dangerous. Other villages would want to take them and the bijju would be too hard to protect or control. Konoha would be hated overall)

-Protection ( the village never reciecved harm or was in serious danger.)

The only wrong thing he did was that he did not know Madara surived with his DNA.

------------------------
Quote from Narutpedia that proves that his hype says he was stronger than all of the 5 kages at the time of his death (which includes Onoki and Ay)

Spoiler:

Even in his old age, he was also said to be the strongest of all the five Kage at the time of his death

OK I'm only here to address two things, actually three because I'm not really in the mood to argue with you at the moment.

1. Naruto stealing the scroll of sealing was all apart of Hiruzens plan because ht knew that Naruto would never have come up with the idea to steal the scroll on his own, because Naruto shouldn't have even had knowledge of the scroll. However, he knew that someone was after the scroll, he just didn't know who, but he knew who ever told Naruto about the scroll would try to ill Naruto when he stole it, so he ordered the Ninja he had guarding the scroll to let Naruto through so he could find out who was trying to steal the scroll.

This was explained in part two.

2. It was stated by Madara himself that every encounter between the Uchiha and the Senju, more personally Hashirama and himself always ended in a stalemate with casualties on both sides. Thier last battle in what woulsd soon be called the valley of the end was the first time that their fight did not end in a tie, Hashirama won, but it was barely, plus he didn't even finish the job. Without Mito and Uzumaki, Hashirama would have lost and why? because he would know zero about sealing which means he wouldn't have been able to seal Kurama away or any of the other tailed beast for that matter.

3. It's his fault that Kurama and all the other tailed beast hate or hated humans because Kurama already said that he hated Madara and Madara alone for taking control of him, but he hated Hashirama for sealing him away and he hated the humans for continuing the sealing and never letting him out. This was the same for all tailed beast.

4. How do I know that there wouldn't have been war because Hashirama didn't need to go around and capture all of the tailed beast because once you hear Kurama's side of the story, the Tailed Beast weren't even bothering anyone and no one wanted to mess with them other than Madara who had been trapped underground for years so he couldn't have messed with them.

In the days where it was every clan for themselves the Tailed beast were still around and no one was fighting over them, no one was even thinking about them, they were just fighting over land and when all the great ninjas villages were formed, people didn't want to fight at the time, but as soon as Hashirama came to them with his peace offering of Bijuu that's when all of the fighting started and from then on out every war was not only fought over control of land, but over the tailed beast. It was stated that 3 great shinobi world wars were fought over control of the tailed beast.

Should he have kept them all, no defiantly not, but from what I can see he should have just left them all alone. Without the Bijuu there wouldn't have been any wars and there would have been peace. I mean he didn't walk up to the Uchiha with a Bijuu to make peace, he had a treaty, a handshake and a new home waiting for them and that was it.

5. Jiraya and Tsunade had permission to leave the village, Jiraya for his research and the fact that he was tracking Orochimaru and Tsunade for....whatever she was doing.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Dragon Style

OK I'm only here to address two things, actually three because I'm not really in the mood to argue with you at the moment.

1. Naruto stealing the scroll of sealing was all apart of Hiruzens plan because ht knew that Naruto would never have come up with the idea to steal the scroll on his own, because Naruto shouldn't have even had knowledge of the scroll. However, he knew that someone was after the scroll, he just didn't know who, but he knew who ever told Naruto about the scroll would try to ill Naruto when he stole it, so he ordered the Ninja he had guarding the scroll to let Naruto through so he could find out who was trying to steal the scroll.

This was explained in part two.
I believe you but can I have the chp


2. It was stated by Madara himself that every encounter between the Uchiha and the Senju, more personally Hashirama and himself always ended in a stalemate with casualties on both sides. Thier last battle in what woulsd soon be called the valley of the end was the first time that their fight did not end in a tie, Hashirama won, but it was barely, plus he didn't even finish the job. Without Mito and Uzumaki, Hashirama would have lost and why? because he would know zero about sealing which means he wouldn't have been able to seal Kurama away or any of the other tailed beast for that matter.
I already agreed with this. But for Hashirama vs Madara I was talking about Politically (and same Generation refereces). Also Hashirama had less help and recived less damage towards the village during attacks on the leaf

3. It's his fault that Kurama and all the other tailed beast hate or hated humans because Kurama already said that he hated Madara and Madara alone for taking control of him, but he hated Hashirama for sealing him away and he hated the humans for continuing the sealing and never letting him out. This was the same for all tailed beast.
so we are supposed to let the bijju roam free. As humans we are supposed to protect ourselves and tame animals. Lil is known about their activity before we sealed them. Hashiarama used them as peace offerings which is noble IMO.

4. How do I know that there wouldn't have been war because Hashirama didn't need to go around and capture all of the tailed beast because once you hear Kurama's side of the story, the Tailed Beast weren't even bothering anyone and no one wanted to mess with them other than Madara who had been trapped underground for years so he couldn't have messed with them.
Like I said Hashiram tried to use them for peace. SOmeone would have tried to use them for evil sooner or later or tried to keep all of them for themselves. By Hashirama getting them first he prevented that from happening.

In the days where it was every clan for themselves the Tailed beast were still around and no one was fighting over them, no one was even thinking about them, they were just fighting over land and when all the great ninjas villages were formed, people didn't want to fight at the time, but as soon as Hashirama came to them with his peace offering of Bijuu that's when all of the fighting started and from then on out every war was not only fought over control of land, but over the tailed beast. It was stated that 3 great shinobi world wars were fought over control of the tailed beast.
True but better a good guy to take control of them and try to use them in a nice way instead of an evil orgainzation or evil villian or corrupted village

Should he have kept them all, no defiantly not, but from what I can see he should have just left them all alone. Without the Bijuu there wouldn't have been any wars and there would have been peace. I mean he didn't walk up to the Uchiha with a Bijuu to make peace, he had a treaty, a handshake and a new home waiting for them and that was it.
Exceelllent points I see where you are coming from. But I believe someone else would try to capture the bijju and use them for power anyhow sooner or later

5. Jiraya and Tsunade had permission to leave the village, Jiraya for his research and the fact that he was tracking Orochimaru and Tsunade for....whatever she was doing.

Hiruzen should have consoled Tsuande and not let her leave
Jiryria did have a good reason though to look for CHild of Prohecy but not to wast time playing hide-n-seek with Oro

[Dragon Style]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Hiruzen should have consoled Tsuande and not let her leave
Jiryria did have a good reason though to look for CHild of Prohecy but not to wast time playing hide-n-seek with Oro

I get what you are trying to say, but the simple fact of the matter is that no one other than Madara and Hashirama had to power to take control to the tailed beast back then. no one even tried, it was wrong of Hashirama to seal them all away like that because they weren't even bothering anyone, he took away their freedom and caused them to hate everyone.

Peace is great, but not at the cost of someone else's freedom that's just wrong and he didn't even try to understand them which was the worst part to me.

As for the Hiruzen plan I'll get back to you on that I don't remember the chapter, but it was flashback chapter, it was either Naruto's flashback Kakashi's, or Iruka's I can't remember at the moment but I'll find it.

Also Minato has it worse because Kurama was summoned right in the middle of the village so the vllage had no choice, but to help, this was not the case with Hashirama. Hashirama was not distracted with keeping his wife's seal in check while she was giving birth, his child was not put in danger to distract him. He and Madara were fighting miles away from the village so he had no distractions and nothing to worry about.