Itachi and Kisame vs Pein and Konan

[PrinceofPeace]

you are not convincing anyone!!! Care to explain those long ranged attacks? Your theory is flawed! Itachi has not shown the ability to use iznangi so he can not use it.

[Bazk]

so by that logic the 2nd hokage can only use 2 water techniques and not anymore since he hasnt showed the ability to use them?

[PrinceofPeace]

lol what are you talking about ?? what does the 2HK have to do with anyting????

Itachi and Kisame can not counter Plantary Devastaion!! WHy because

Bee's TBB + Itachi's Susanoo + Naruto's Wind RasenShuriken>> Itachi's Sussano + Giant Water Shark Bullet

[Bazk]

Who said you need all those three powers to destroy it? only fact it that those three used together destroyed it. it can be enough only with itachis susano and giant water shark bullet

[PrinceofPeace]

you can not prove that! From what we know it took 3 powerful ninjutsu to destroy

Plantary Devastation! Giant Water Shakr Bullet is weak at the start unless it absorbs a ninjutsu! By itself it is not that strong. in power TBB and RasenShuriken is stronger!

Your just an Itachi fan.

Konan can send a paper Chakram to distract them before CT happens

YOU HAVE PROVIDED NO PROOF OF HOW ITACHI AND KISAME WIN

[Bazk]

the shark bullet becomes powerful when it hits it,
and the planetary divasion would trap konan too
and it takes time for pain to use it, even if they cant destroy it itachi has susanoo and izangi since he can counter it he surely knows about it and can use it and kisames insaine stamina would make him survive that

[PrinceofPeace]

ITACHI DOES NOT HAVE IZANGI

Kisame would not survive being crush by a boulder. Who cares if Konan dies. It takes time to activate Susanoo as well.

Summonings are summoned and Konan uses paper chakram to distract them then Nagato uses Plantary Devastation

Nagato could bring Nagato back to life if he wished anyways


If you need MORE prooff of how your team loses then fine! Forget Plantary Devastation or ALMIGHTY PUSH!

The battle ends when nagato summons Gedo mze and Gedo maze steals their souls

[Bazk]

takes time to summon susanno? he did it before he got hit by lightning for christ sake
why does he not have izangi?? then he just Izanmi GG

[athoatho]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

Since no one wants to read the whole thing I underlined the important part. When Deva goes into the sky all the other paths get knocked out which leaves Konan to guard both them and Deva Path while he focuses. He's not going to be able to use that technique mid battle or he gets fried. So that is not what ends this thread.

ok this is very important point that is neglected by the Nagato team ( is Konan strong enough to protect all of her team members for the time deva path needs to prepare his attack ? i dont think so )
i want to apologize for not having accurate information about planetary devastation but i had to review the battle and do some readings ( and please i am not reading manga so please use spoiler bar )
ok Planetary devastation has its own weak point deva path must be close to nagato to use it and since the fighting ground is plane and contain no form of obstacles deva path has to do long run to be able to use it
one more thing is that the Nagato team has assumed that pein and konan will avoid gingitsu by not looking into itachi`s eye ( so all the six paths and the animal summon will be as skilled Gai to fight without one second look into the sharingan ( remember they didnt proof to be able to do this ), i wonder why people who accept this weak theory cannot accept the possibility that itachi the elite Uchiha can use izangi that was used by the nonUchiha Danzo ??

[JLI2infinity]

Lol Prince Gedo Mazo, yeah because Nagato willingly summons that thing Come on now, just start thinking of legitimate strategies that involve all six paths stop trying to come up with a one technique ends everything solution, because it won't work on these high level shinobi.

[PrinceofPeace]

@Bask
-Itachi has not shown the ability to use that justsu.... SO HE CAN NOT USE IT!!

@Jin
-We all know that Konan is the weakest of the group and will be the first to die so...... It would not be crazy nor OOC to say that Nagato would summon Gedo Maze
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This is how it goes down!!!!!
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The teams face off!

Kisame starts out by flooding the field
yet
Preta Path jumps in front to absorb the wave.

Fodder paths get in front of Deva and Konan to protect them.

Animal path spams animal summonings like rhino, bird, and multile headed dog.

Itachi uses amaterasu to kill summonings.
While Itachi is busy spamming Amaterasu Konan sends a paper chakram his way.

Kisame counters with 1,000 sharks
Nagato pushes them all away with Shir Tensi.

The push should still push back Itachi n Kisame along with the sharks (After all Pain was able to push the boss toads with ease)

Itachi activates Susanoo to protect both of them from the smaller sized push

Itachi then uses Amaterasu but a fodder path of pain (human is there for the block).
Animal path would then make more summonings - panda, chamelon, ox, crustancean

The summonings are huge and the best counter is Amaterasu. Water would not stop them cuz some can swim or just avoid the water. Using a large scale water attack would endager Itachi as well

Bassically from Amaterasu spam and Susanoo being active Itachi will quickly lose significant chakra. Susanoo would crumble leaving Itachi and Kisame open for attack!

kisame has not shown the ability to give his comrades chakra. Who knows how Samehada will react!?!? Samehada does not give chakra to just anyone.

While they are weakend Nagato and Konan would use their combos! Konan would make paper weapons and Nagato would use ST to send the wepons towards them at intense speeds!

itachi and Kisame can not run and dodge forever. Konan would also sacrifice herself and jump in the way (or at least get in front of Nagato) to interecpt Amaterasu! Konan can also use paper clones and their are a lot of paths of pains and summonings to be wasted on Amaterasu!

WOrst case sceniro: Nagato sees that many are dead and he does not have a lot of opitons so he would summon Gedo Maze

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Overall I Nagato n Konan have a bigger advantage

-They have knowledge on Kisame and Itachi! Afterall Nagato was the "leader" of the oroganization and worked close with Tobi.

-Genjusu is useless. Pain can sesne their chakra and they know not to have eye contact. If they have to Nagato can make it rain.

-We all know Itachi has low stamina so spamming Amaterasu and despertly holding up Susanoo would

-Kisame's ninjutsu is easily absorbed or pushed away (I AM SORRY KISAME I LOVE YOU)

-fire jutsu is absorbed or countered with water ninjutsu

-How do they stop Gedo Maze?
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[athoatho]

ok please answer the following :
_ if all the six paths of pain ( and the animal summon 0 are continuously looking to the ground trying to anticipate Itachi`s movements by watching his feet ( they are unable to see the hands to )-------- how will they be able to dodge the amaterasu
or simply how will they dodge Kunai other weapons or techniques
( dont rely on preta path all the time to absorb Amaterasu two water clones can keep him busy )

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by athoatho

ok please answer the following :
_ if all the six paths of pain ( and the animal summon 0 are continuously looking to the ground trying to anticipate Itachi`s movements by watching his feet ( they are unable to see the hands to )-------- how will they be able to dodge the amaterasu
or simply how will they dodge Kunai other weapons or techniques
( dont rely on preta path all the time to absorb Amaterasu two water clones can keep him busy )

People really tend to overestimate Uchiha genjutsu. Unless Itachi can get close to Nagato and Konan they aren't going to be falling into a genjutsu. Between the two of them they have lots of powerful long range techniques so they aren't going to let him get close enough to where they might accidentally look into his eyes. Animal summons also don't instantly die from Amaterasu so some of them could turn Itachi's own technique against him by ramming into him or Kisame while they're on fire. There is also always Chibaku Tensei which Itachi and Kisame can't escape from.

[athoatho]

10 meters is close enough

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by athoatho

10 meters is close enough

Have you ever tried looking at someone in the eyes from 10m away?-that's actually pretty far. It's not like Nagato and Konan can't move either.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by athoatho

one more thing is that the Nagato team has assumed that pein and konan will avoid gingitsu by not looking into itachi`s eye ( so all the six paths and the animal summon will be as skilled Gai to fight without one second look into the sharingan ( remember they didnt proof to be able to do this ), i wonder why people who accept this weak theory cannot accept the possibility that itachi the elite Uchiha can use izanagi that was used by the nonUchiha Danzo ??

We go by feats here not by possibilitys(its in the bg rules). Because its hard to debate with just speculation.

And i thought izanagi was pretty much only usable by those with both uchiha and senju dna. Atleast tobi made it sound like that when he explained it.

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

Lol Prince Gedo Mazo, yeah because Nagato willingly summons that thing .

He pretty much summoned it each time they sealed a beast which would be 7 times plus hanzo so we have knowledge of atleast 8 times he summoned it.
Nagato summoning gedo mazo really isnt that crazy.

[athoatho]

to Godaime Kazekage
yes i can i am not just debating but i will give two facts:
1. when you go to the ophthalmologist to check your site he asks you to look to a board that is located 6 meters away from you, it is called snellen chart, if you can recognize the lower line with tiny letters you are scored 5/6 that you can see recognize from 6 meters objects that normal person should be at 5 meters distance to recognize
sorry for the introduction now the point the letter in the board that you should see at 10 meters is almost the size of the eye
2. my house door i about 25 meter away from the outer door ( i know caue i have measured it ) when the bell is rang i can see the person outside look into his eye so 10 is pretty close
to BMC1994
very nice point thanks for reminding us, but the the presence of the senju DNA is required to elongate the time of the izangi so the at the user can make a better form,but again its a very nice point

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by athoatho

to Godaime Kazekage
yes i can i am not just debating but i will give to facts:
1. when you go to the ophthalmologist to check your site he asks you to look to a board that is located 6 meters away from you, it is called snellen chart, if you can recognize the lower line with tiny letters you are scored 5/6 that you can see recognize from 6 meters objects that normal person should be at 5 meters distance to recognize
sorry for the introduction now the point the letter in the board that you should see at 10 meters is almost the size of the eye
2. my house door i about 25 meter away from the outer door ( i know caue i have measured it ) when the bell is rang i can see the person outside look into his eye so 10 is pretty close

Being able to see someone's eye is different than looking into it (eyecontact). To test what you said I left my room and looked at the calendar we have hanging up at the hallway, measured 10m from it and looked at it. The numbers for each day are a little smaller than my eye and I cannot distinguish them (at 8m I could). I could however clearly see the wall (meaning Nagato could easily see Itachi's entire body and how it was moving without clearly seeing his eye-which he would know not to directly look into anyway).

P.S. There is no way you can see into someone's eyes from 25m away-that little fib lost you all of your credibility. (Although maybe you're a super intelligent hawk that learned how to use the internet and type with your talons)

[athoatho]

thanks for giving me headache after reading your comment i thought ( may be i was wrong and i am just recognizing peoples faces thinking that i can see their eye ) so i amde an experiment : i took a date and grape and put them by the inner door of the house ( its 2 am now in Baghdad so i put it in the illuminated part
first i couldnt see the grape didnt even recognize it then i figured out the color of the grape is the same as the background so i put a background of different color and it was clear as spot the same with the date ( that was larger ) i ate them both after the date is very tasty ( hope you could try it )
again back to science the height of the letter in snellen chart that you can recognize at 12 and 9 meters are 18 and 13 mm respectively
the average dimensions of the palpebral fissure ( the area beween the upper and lower eye lid ) is 10 mm height and 30 mm width ( it is larger with anxiety ) so it is easy to sees into one eyes from 10 meters ( remember summoned animals have much larger eyes )
and since we are not talking about real facts in naruto we can`t measure the minimal distance at which genjitsu do actually work
and eye contact does not mean seeing all the details of the opponents eye it is the mnimal distance at which you can see that that person is looking at your eyes ( just type define eye contact in Google )
( i just start to lough when i imagined the hawk typing on the keyboard with his talons )
and please dont tell me you didnt ever looked into someones eyes from 10 meters and make him/her smile

[Godaime Kazekage]

@ athoatho: Okay, now I realize how ridiculous this argument is getting and trying to apply real world science to a manga scenario. I accept that you can definitely make out someone's eyes from 10m away (that's obvious), but seeing into their pupil and making eye contact would be very difficult (especially when someone is trying to avoid your gaze). And again, the Pain bodies and Konan are perfectly capable of moving further away. I just can't see Itachi OHKOing high level opponents who know not to look into his eyes. Tobi wasn't able to put Konan under a genjutsu until he held her by the throat and made her look into his eyes.

I'm glad I got you to laugh at the hawk part though