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Old 10-18-2012, 11:50 AM   #21
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

Haku has done something to the effect of... 24-5
A few symbols and a stomp, and he managed to freeze quite a good amount of water in the surrounding area into ice needles. 24-13 he uses the same water to make his ice mirrors.

Its assumable if Suigetsu can manage the shape of water and its characteristics (such as being pass-through, or fluid in general) that he can be frozen all the same since theres no evidence that him in a water form changes the characteristics of the water itself aside from becoming more solid around his center of mass.

In fact theres evidence to support than he can be frozen in the form of his lake-giant feat. If he had indeed changed the consistancy or characteristics of the water in that lake, then it wouldn't have changed back when his presence was removed. He can shape water around him using his chakra, however he cannot make it any less water than what it began as.

So yes, it's feated Haku can freeze ice casually on a larger scale than what Suigetsu would have access to in this fight, and its feated Suigetsu doesn't change water so much as its form.

EDIT:
To address the issue, Suigetsu has been shown to be able to change the form of water in its fluid state, however he hasn't been shown to be able to do anything with ice (I.E. solid mass) so he isn't feated to be able to manipulate while frozen.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:19 PM   #22
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

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Originally Posted by tanduhman View Post
Logically you prove a good point, however it still has not been done yet. With that logic kisame could do more than a thousand sharks because he has more chakra than that. Being that it hasnt been done though, he simply has thousand sharks no jutsu. Characters are limited to their feats. With this logic as well haku could even freeze the water inside someones body: Anyones body. Which would make his character boss. Until haku has shown the ability to either freeze full water based attacks coming at him, or has shown the ability to freeze the water inside someone than I believe that this concept is still an assumption that may or may not even be possible.
Its not not haku has the ability to freeze water to create ice.
Ice is made out of water. Suigetsu spends a large amount of the fight in PURE water form which easily is frozen by haku a la mirrors and needles.

Haku does not need to freeze his insides because he is completely made out of water.

No one is saying that haku could freeze a normal humans insides. I am saying that haku freezes quite large amounts of water (again like idk 16 lifesize ice mirrors? (feel free to count XD) . I am sure all those lifesize mirrors easily add to up to suigetsu volume.

And suigetsu is 100% water.

Thus haku can freeze suigetsu as soon as he enters aquamode.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

Ice Dome GG

How does Sugeitsu counter that?
Haku does not need to freeze Sugeitsu
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:49 PM   #24
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

Alright i'll agree on the terms of both frost ninja's factuals and BMC's logic. That makes enough sense. I didnt count the ice mirrors by the way haha.

edit: And for the person who said that suigetsu couldnt take zabuza. I disagree. That thread should be made right meow.
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:12 AM   #25
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

then do it
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:18 AM   #26
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

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Ice Dome GG

How does Sugeitsu counter that?
Haku does not need to freeze Sugeitsu
Him being liquid means he takes no damage from senbons.
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:46 AM   #27
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

Lol where di I say anything about Sugietsu?

Haku would use Ice Dome to trap Sugeitsu. Haku was able to make that jutsu very fast and Sugietsu would be taken by surprised of his ability. Plus Sugietsu is overconfident

The Ice Dome would be small and cramped so Sugeitsu has no way of breaking out
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:56 AM   #28
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

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Lol where di I say anything about Sugietsu?

Haku would use Ice Dome to trap Sugeitsu. Haku was able to make that jutsu very fast and Sugietsu would be taken by surprised of his ability. Plus Sugietsu is overconfident

The Ice Dome would be small and cramped so Sugeitsu has no way of breaking out
He turns into water and slips under a mirror, since Haku would be suprised as well. He doesn't need to break out since its shown many times theres space under the mirrors.
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:41 AM   #29
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

There are not mirrors involved

I think you misunderstand

Remeber when Haku used ice dome to protect him and zabuza from the ink birds attached with explosive tags


THAT is what I am talking about... would you like the chapter?
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:19 AM   #30
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

You know its somewhat odd to think about, but suigetsu could in fact dig under the dome. Just saying.
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Old 10-19-2012, 12:23 PM   #31
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

Pretty much. Theres no reason to assume the dome is airtight, and even if it is suigetsu doesn't need to breathe so he can just puddle himself and wait for haku to drop it or suffocate.

Using the dome against someone is a very bad idea, especially when he can drown her within the same dome.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:47 PM   #32
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

It would be a long time and obvious that Sugeitsu is digging, Let's not forget that Sugeitsu is lazy and has low staminia

I do not see why the dome would not be airtight? THere are no cracks nor wholes!

Why would Haku break down the dome when he turns into a puddle? Haku is no idoit

Haku just needs to keep his distance and the battle is over. Haku has way better speed feats than Sugeitsu
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:03 AM   #33
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

Where has haku shown better speed feats? yeah hes shown speed feats through the mirror transportation, but thats the majority that ive seen. In the Manga battle during the war arc I could barely tell where haku was the entire fight. Which barely lasted at all.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:40 PM   #34
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

The better question is when has Sugeitsu shown better speed feats?
-He is lazy
-He is slowed down by his sword
-He needs water

Haku has kept up with PTS Saskue and was said to go "light speed" ny switcihing through mirrors

When has Haku shown any special speed feat
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:31 AM   #35
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

you mean sui, the lightspeed thing has already been disproven.
PTS sasuke isn't very fast at all, and Sui was at least somewhat fast enough to block a couple of casual KB strikes, which puts him high enough to get to Haku.

As for him being lazy/slowed by sword/thirsty, most all of that is plot-based devices and can't be used for the fight. Him being lazy as the main note, as in an actual bloodlusted battle he would forego his lazyness.
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Old 10-21-2012, 07:00 AM   #36
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

It is funny how people say Sugietsu is faster or fast but no evidence or proof have been given!

KB was holding back he was barely moving that fast. We could still see their movements. We had a hard time watching haku and Saskue. Saskue was able to stop the Demon Bros before Kakashi was able to.

This is in character so Sugietsu would be lazy and not take the battle seriously against a girlish boy!! We all know Sugietsu is overconfident and is mostly talk. Sugeitsu would still be slower due to his sword.

Bassically here is how the battle goes
--------------------------------------------
Sugeitsu runs to lake

Haku traps him in ice dome (not ice mirrors ice dome!!!)

I do not see what Sugeitsu can do from there... people say he would dig but that would take time and it would be obvious.

Sugeitsu does not have anything to break though the ice dome. Ice dome survived ink birds and multiple paperbombs!!!

-----------------------------------
Haku just needs to keep his distance which is easy. Haku is faster and with the distance Sugietsu will not have a chance
----------------------------------
If Haku does ice mirrors and senbon combo Sugietsu has no way to keep up. Everytime SUgietsu is hit and turns to water it cost chakra so eventually Sugeitsu would run out of chakra
-------------------------------------
If we could use anime feats than Haku would finish the match with ice spears

Last edited by PrinceofPeace; 10-21-2012 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:55 AM   #37
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

Its really not possible to state what mindset KB was in while fighting suigetsu. he could have been easily moving at a high speed, and in that would be alot faster than PTS sasuke, which like frost stated, was casually countered by suigetsu due to his abilities. I honestly dont see how haku could use ice dome when he only showed using it on the vicinity of himself.

Also, it would not take much time for suigetsu to catch up to haku. he would only be hit by a few senbon as he would be able to dodge. Hes not just going to run right into them like I suppose your thinking he will. Anime feats also show suigetsu fighting off hundreds of people as well as transforming hundreds of times. I really doubt that he would lose chakra anytime soon. His transfo barely takes him any effort. It is a casual gesture to him in that sense.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:19 AM   #38
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

but that still does not say how Sugietsu would win!

I do not see how Sugietsu will hurt Haku! Sugeitsu has not shown the power to break thought Haku's ice!!

If you want to talk about anime than Haku can use ice spears to seal the deal! Haku has a better chance of winning than Sugeitsu does. Haku can freeze the near by river of the training field or freeze sugeitsu or trap him in ice mirrors or ice dome or freeze/make the area colder around him
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Old 10-21-2012, 07:29 PM   #39
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
It is funny how people say Sugietsu is faster or fast but no evidence or proof have been given!

He blocked a shot from Darui/Raikage with next to no time given, good enough.

KB was holding back he was barely moving that fast. We could still see their movements. We had a hard time watching haku and Saskue. Saskue was able to stop the Demon Bros before Kakashi was able to.

So you are saying PTS Sasuke is faster than Kakashi for a battle against fodder?

This is in character so Sugietsu would be lazy and not take the battle seriously against a girlish boy!! We all know Sugietsu is overconfident and is mostly talk. Sugeitsu would still be slower due to his sword.

Sword has never slowed him down before. He is made of water so he doesn't suffer from fatigue by carrying it, nor does it hold any real weight since he has no muscle to strain against moving it.


Bassically here is how the battle goes
--------------------------------------------
Sugeitsu runs to lake

Haku traps him in ice dome (not ice mirrors ice dome!!!)

Haku drowns, gg.

I do not see what Sugeitsu can do from there... people say he would dig but that would take time and it would be obvious.

Drowns him, waits for Haku to suffocate.

Sugeitsu does not have anything to break though the ice dome. Ice dome survived ink birds and multiple paperbombs!!!

Doesn't need to, Haku drowns or suffocates.

-----------------------------------
Haku just needs to keep his distance which is easy. Haku is faster and with the distance Sugietsu will not have a chance

Until he becomes a water behemoth, and drowns Haku.

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If Haku does ice mirrors and senbon combo Sugietsu has no way to keep up. Everytime SUgietsu is hit and turns to water it cost chakra so eventually Sugeitsu would run out of chakra

He just becomes a puddle and sits there, no wasting any chakra (which it was never stated it costs chakra, being he is liquid by nature and forms into a solid for attacking). Haku would easily run out of chakra quicker.

-------------------------------------
If we could use anime feats than Haku would finish the match with ice spears
Water characteristics negates that by letting it pass through him. Its freeze or lose for haku.
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:01 PM   #40
PrinceofPeace
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Default Re: Haku vs Suigetsu

It is funny how people say Sugietsu is faster or fast but no evidence or proof have been given!

He blocked a shot from Darui/Raikage with next to no time given, good enough.

has Sugeitsu ever blitz? Haku has..correct might have to check on that but Sugeitsu is still not that much faster

KB was holding back he was barely moving that fast. We could still see their movements. We had a hard time watching haku and Saskue. Saskue was able to stop the Demon Bros before Kakashi was able to.

So you are saying PTS Sasuke is faster than Kakashi for a battle against fodder?

HECK NO

This is in character so Sugietsu would be lazy and not take the battle seriously against a girlish boy!! We all know Sugietsu is overconfident and is mostly talk. Sugeitsu would still be slower due to his sword.

Sword has never slowed him down before. He is made of water so he doesn't suffer from fatigue by carrying it, nor does it hold any real weight since he has no muscle to strain against moving it.

yes it does which is why Sugietsu adds strenght to his arm


Bassically here is how the battle goes
--------------------------------------------
Sugeitsu runs to lake

Haku traps him in ice dome (not ice mirrors ice dome!!!)

Haku drowns, gg.

I do not see what Sugeitsu can do from there... people say he would dig but that would take time and it would be obvious.

Drowns him, waits for Haku to suffocate.

Sugeitsu does not have anything to break though the ice dome. Ice dome survived ink birds and multiple paperbombs!!!

Doesn't need to, Haku drowns or suffocates.

-----------------------------------
Haku just needs to keep his distance which is easy. Haku is faster and with the distance Sugietsu will not have a chance

Until he becomes a water behemoth, and drowns Haku.

----------------------------------
If Haku does ice mirrors and senbon combo Sugietsu has no way to keep up. Everytime SUgietsu is hit and turns to water it cost chakra so eventually Sugeitsu would run out of chakra

He just becomes a puddle and sits there, no wasting any chakra (which it was never stated it costs chakra, being he is liquid by nature and forms into a solid for attacking). Haku would easily run out of chakra quicker.

Even Itachi said every jutsu ahs a weakeness. Turning into water is a jutsu so it cost chakra

-------------------------------------
idk about your last comment


How does Sugietsu get close enough to drown him?
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