Naruto vs Aizen forms

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

no one in naruto has a counter against tsukuyomi without a natural uchihas sharingan your point is? That is besides the fact that naruto wont be breaking out of it even if it was possible as he sucks at breaking out of mere basic genjutsu let alone aizens illusions. (Naruto himself also doesnt have a 'wide array' of anti-mind screwing tactics he is no better then anyone in bleach would be.)

I gave support for that statement.

Aizens illusions most likely would affect the kyuubi as the kyuubi usually 'watches' the fight from within and in the rare case it doesnt aizen needs to say 6 words instead of 3.

If anyone is breaking out of his illusions it certainly wont be naruto or his pet.

So still , illusion hax GG.

Wrong Bee completely shrugged off a Tsukiyomi with the Hachibi. Naruto can use the same tactic with Kurama. It is just switching minds. Which makes illusions pointless. So end result Aizen gets Nuked.

Also this arguement over illusions is pointless. Unlike the sharigan Aizen doesn't disable movements with his attack. Meaning the attack would pointless on an individual with widespread Aoe attacks like yamamoto. Which is why Aizen went out of his way to prepare a trap for him. So in conclusion Naruto nukes him.

Nothing you are stating is stopping Naruto from nuking the area. Aizen can't stop him from transforming and blasting the area. He gets caught in Aizen spell he nukes the area. He doesn't get caught he nukes the area.

[BMC1994]

No bee did not. He only shrugged off 2 nameless illusions of itachi and sasuke but no tsukuyomi.Besides the fact that naruto/kurama have not shown that ability and prb do not have it due to being 'new' to the whole partnership thing.

Still no counter for aizen saying 6 words instead of 3.
Idk if you have seen yamamoto bankai but its so hax that anyone in his place would have done the same. The best aoe 'nuke' naruto has is TBB and even that requires aiming which 'complete hypnosis' would take care off. So no nuking aizen for him.

Naruto is still not breaking out of any illusions and neither is the kyuubi. 6 words and the battle goes to aizen.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

No bee did not. He only shrugged off 2 nameless illusions of itachi and sasuke but no tsukuyomi.Besides the fact that naruto/kurama have not shown that ability and prb do not have it due to being 'new' to the whole partnership thing.

Still no counter for aizen saying 6 words instead of 3.
Idk if you have seen yamamoto bankai but its so hax that anyone in his place would have done the same. The best aoe 'nuke' naruto has is TBB and even that requires aiming which 'complete hypnosis' would take care off. So no nuking aizen for him.

Naruto is still not breaking out of any illusions and neither is the kyuubi. 6 words and the battle goes to aizen.

First off that was Tsukiyomi both ms. The name didnt need to be said considering anybody who reared the series already knew what it was. Naruto just gave Kurama full control over his body two chapters ago. Proving that statement wrong.

Still no counter for Naruto nuking the area. Still no proof of Aizens illusion being more poweful than genjutsu. Still no proof of Aizens illusion being more powerful than Itachi's illusions

Also what's 3 words vs instantly changing into a monster a nuking the whole area. Still haven't received a counter to this. No aiming required considering he can take his own blast.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

First off that was Tsukiyomi both ms. The name didnt need to be said considering anybody who reared the series already knew what it was. Naruto just gave Kurama full control over his body two chapters ago. Proving that statement wrong.

Still no counter for Naruto nuking the area. Still no proof of Aizens illusion being more poweful than genjutsu. Still no proof of Aizens illusion being more powerful than Itachi's illusions

Also what's 3 words vs instantly changing into a monster a nuking the whole area. Still haven't received a counter to this. No aiming required considering he can take his own blast.

Prove it was tsukuyomi. It was not especially in itachis case as his tsukuyomi is far more advanced then what he did there. Prove that it was tsukuyomi.

I meant kyuubi breaking him out of genjutsu not body switching. And it can be argued that the kyuubi as the is using narutos body is using the same senses which will be kyouka suigetsu'd before any nuke will take place.

Besides the fact that spirits with 100 of years of battle experience couldnt break out of it. Besides the fact that no one ever broke out of it like genjutsu. Besides the fact it being superior to genjutsu because it directly manipulates your senses instead of messing with chkara/reiatsu which would make it easy to brake out of? Besides multiple characters confirming that you cant break out of it. Aizen illusions are superior to any genjutsu ever used. Due to the simple fact that there is no known way to break out of it.

Instantly changing sure i am willing to belief that. But bijuu dama is far from instant and certainly is ot faster then saying 3 words.

That is besides the fact that captains except kenpachi can skip the release incantation making the release nearly instant. Instead of 6 six words.

So aizen releases without saying a word which is obviously faster then a bijuu dama would be. Then naruto is illusion haxxed into nuking everything except aizen and then shunpo> slash GG.

And even if aizens illusions were only mere genjutsu naruto still has no viable way of dealing with advanced genjutsu.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Prove it was tsukuyomi. It was not especially in itachis case as his tsukuyomi is far more advanced then what he did there. Prove that it was tsukuyomi.

I meant kyuubi breaking him out of genjutsu not body switching. And it can be argued that the kyuubi as the is using narutos body is using the same senses which will be kyouka suigetsu'd before any nuke will take place.

Besides the fact that spirits with 100 of years of battle experience couldnt break out of it. Besides the fact that no one ever broke out of it like genjutsu. Besides the fact it being superior to genjutsu because it directly manipulates your senses instead of messing with chkara/reiatsu which would make it easy to brake out of? Besides multiple characters confirming that you cant break out of it. Aizen illusions are superior to any genjutsu ever used. Due to the simple fact that there is no known way to break out of it.

Instantly changing sure i am willing to belief that. But bijuu dama is far from instant and certainly is ot faster then saying 3 words.

That is besides the fact that captains except kenpachi can skip the release incantation making the release nearly instant. Instead of 6 six words.

So aizen releases without saying a word which is obviously faster then a bijuu dama would be. Then naruto is illusion haxxed into nuking everything except aizen and then shunpo> slash GG.

Sasuke was in Ms what other genjutsu has been cast besides Tsukiyomi. Also doesn't matter if it was Tsukiyomi or not the battle between Sasuke and Itachi showed illusions in their base sharigan as powerful as Aizens. Again Sharigan is capable of instantanious mind breaking. As in destroying a persons mind on the spot. Aizen has no such feats.

Spirits of 100 years means what exactly. No one breaking out the technique proves nothing. Aizen was the only one with such an ability in all of soul society. That just makes it unique to bleach. In Naruto every other person uses the attack. As a matter fact I want to learn explain the difference between Aizen shikai and genjutsu enighten me.

Do tell me how Aizens 3 words wil stop Naruto from charging the bomb and blowing up the area. His attack doesn't restrain him. So it does what exactly.

[BMC1994]

Instantaneous mind breaking? LOL if that is so why have tobi/madara not won the manga yet? Instantneous lol really lol. They were not as powerfull as aizen as they were broken out of. Aizen has broken minds w/out kyouka suigetsu ex: hinamori, he gave ichigo a dip before his dangai training.

No one breaking out of the technique proves its superior to any genjutsu ever shown and actually shinji also had an similiar but inferior ability, Usually focused on one person. Is often temporary and relies on chakra.

Genjutsu: Messes with senses though chakra manipulation, has been broken out of, affects smaller groups of people save for infinite tsukuyomi.
Aizen: Flat out controls your 5 senses with nothing you can do about it whether you want it or not, Has not been broken out of, casually affected most of SS. Has a large area of effect. Cannot be broken out of due to chakra disruption due to the fact that aizen does not mess with chakra/energy itself but the senses. Once under tagged by aizens release aizen can make you see anything he wants at any time. Regardless of kyouka suigetsus release state, reiatsu levels and fatigue.

3 words? He skips shikai incantation and insta-illusion haxs naruto before any bomb is made. Kyouka suigetsu is stopping naruto from ever hitting aizen with anything. Aizen makes an illusion of himself somewhere else that naruto will attack. Hence aizen will never ever get tagged by anything naruto throws at him because he will be aiming at air.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Instantaneous mind breaking? LOL if that is so why have tobi/madara not won the manga yet? Instantneous lol really lol. They were not as powerfull as aizen as they were broken out of. Aizen has broken minds w/out kyouka suigetsu ex: hinamori, he gave ichigo a dip before his dangai training.

No one breaking out of the technique proves its superior to any genjutsu ever shown and actually shinji also had an similiar but inferior ability, Usually focused on one person. Is often temporary and relies on chakra.

Genjutsu: Messes with senses though chakra manipulation, has been broken out of, affects smaller groups of people save for infinite tsukuyomi.
Aizen: Flat out controls your 5 senses with nothing you can do about it whether you want it or not, Has not been broken out of, casually affected most of SS. Has a large area of effect. Cannot be broken out of due to chakra disruption due to the fact that aizen does not mess with chakra/energy itself but the senses. Once under tagged by aizens release aizen can make you see anything he wants at any time. Regardless of kyouka suigetsus release state, reiatsu levels and fatigue.

3 words? He skips shikai incantation and insta-illusion haxs naruto before any bomb is made. Kyouka suigetsu is stopping naruto from ever hitting aizen with anything. Aizen makes an illusion of himself somewhere else that naruto will attack. Hence aizen will never ever get tagged by anything naruto throws at him because he will be aiming at air.

How about no on the first part. Characters in Naruto can actually counter the attack which is why people aren't laid out outright by the sharigan. Yes instantanious you n=know ike shisui eye, you know like how every known sharigan users in the story has laid out an character instantly at one point in the story. Itachi put two peope in a coma, Sasuke laid out a samurai and countered Itachi's ilusions, Madara took out A at one point. As a matter of fact Itachi had Naruto performing a full battle.

You do know Aizen uses Reiatsu with his shikai to manipulate the senses. Reitsu is what spirtual energy. Chakra is what spirtual energy so.....

I am still waiting on you to tell me how Aizen is going to stop Naruto from blowing up the battleground. You ony say that he gives him another target. But the aoe of the attack is so large Aizen will still be caught in the attack. So again what is stopping Naruto from transforming and blowing up the area.

I haven't even gotten into the topic of Naruto's sensory capabilities.

[Cult of Personality]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

One that would be nlf on can't be broken.

Indeed. So we defer to the one person who has demonstrated the ability to discern the difference between Aizen's illusions and reality.

Unohana, a medical expert with two hundred+ years of experience.

Is Naruto a medical expert with two hundred+ years of experience? No? Fancy that.

Also Naruto's pet monster is going to sit back and watch this. Kurama and Naruto are two seperate individual you can cast it on Naruto but the other is out of reach.

Being that he's not independent and is sealed inside of Naruto, he has to rely on Naruto's senses to know what's going on. Unless he possesses extrasensory perception. But as he, you know, doesn't, it doesn't matter if he's separate from Naruto or not.

Besides that point Naruto could still just say eff it and nuke the area.

He could, if he had a head .0001 seconds after the fight starts.

Aizen can't restrain him.

Debatable, but irrelevant. Aizen doesn't need to restrain him.

[BMC1994]

Shusui's eye still is not instant. And madaras genjutsu was broken out of so he was not laid out by his genjutsu.

Aizen shikai has never been seen or claimed to work thorugh reitasu its power is sense manupulation. Just that not more not less.

I would say Naruto gets shunpo'd and gets cut to pieces before he completes the bijuu dama. Any illusion like a crowd of innocents or just ramen would stop naruto from nuking anything. Or a image of matsumuto naked idk whatever aizen wants him to see.

People who could sense reiatsu failed to sense the actual aizen with the exception of yamamoto i think he is not comparable to naruto as he easily solos the entire verse. So narutos sensing abilities would not work.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Shusui's eye still is not instant. And madaras genjutsu was broken out of so he was not laid out by his genjutsu.

Aizen shikai has never been seen or claimed to work thorugh reitasu its power is sense manupulation. Just that not more not less.

I would say Naruto gets shunpo'd and gets cut to pieces before he completes the bijuu dama. Any illusion like a crowd of innocents or just ramen would stop naruto from nuking anything. Or a image of matsumuto naked idk whatever tasuaizen wants him to see.

People who could sense reiatsu failed to sense the actual aizen with the exception of yamamoto i think he is not comparable to naruto as he easily solos the entire verse. So narutos sensing abilities would not work.

Shisui eye works immediatiately the victim just can't tell.

All shikai work via reitasu.

Third portion I see you are basically giving up.

Naruto detected the undetectable. Zetsu chakra signature can't be traced period its an identical copy of the original. Not only that he could essentially keep track of the entire war with his power.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

Shisui eye works immediatiately the victim just can't tell.

All shikai work via reitasu.

Third portion I see you are basically giving up.

Naruto detected the undetectable. Zetsu chakra signature can't be traced period its an identical copy of the original. Not only that he could essentially keep track of the entire war with his power.

FTG is instant. Shusui's eye is not. I am quite literal in my definition of instant.

Prove shikai work through reiatsu. Zanpaktou have reiatsu but dont neccesairly work thorugh it. How would renji's shikai work through reiatsu.

No not really i simply repeated what i said earlier that naruto would get illusion haxxed>slashed before he could do anything.

Sakura was able to figure out it was a fake. Try again.

Hax>slash.GG.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

FTG is instant. Shusui's eye is not. I am quite literal in my definition of instant.

Prove shikai work through reiatsu. Zanpaktou have reiatsu but dont neccesairly work thorugh it. How would renji's shikai work through reiatsu.

No not really i simply repeated what i said earlier that naruto would get illusion haxxed>slashed before he could do anything.

Sakura was able to figure out it was a fake. Try again.

Hax>slash.GG.

This is boring bro. Your not disproving anything. multiple people have been handicapped instantly by the sharigan. Aizen doesn't take out anyone with his whimsical he only fools them.

So you are saying that Aizen doesn't use Reitasu. Now I have proof you don't know what you are talking about.

Again getting caught in an illusion doesn't stop Naruto from transforming and blowing up the area. Aizen can't control his actions. So...

Sakura figuring it out disproves nothing. She couldn't sense Zetsu.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

This is boring bro. Your not disproving anything. multiple people have been handicapped instantly by the sharigan. Aizen doesn't take out anyone with his whimsical he only fools them.

So you are saying that Aizen doesn't use Reitasu. Now I have proof you don't know what you are talking about.

Again getting caught in an illusion doesn't stop Naruto from transforming and blowing up the area. Aizen can't control his actions. So...

Sakura figuring it out disproves nothing. She couldn't sense Zetsu.

You still have not disproved naruto getting illusion haxxed and slashed before he can do a bijuu dama.Your just rambling about sharingan and itachi which have no place in this fight. Sharingan has little to nothing to do with this as naruto could not defend even gainst the more advanced sharingan genjutsu.

I am saying aizens senses manipulation would not neccesairly use reiatsu. As i saked earlier how would a shikai like renji's use reiatsu? I never claimed that aizen does not use reiatsu at all which you just sucked out of your thumb.

Aizen sowrd takes out people not his illusions i thought that was obvious.

Aizen would slash him faster then he would fire his little bomb. Even if not there still kido.

Naruto has no solid defense defense against genjutsu or aizens illusion so stop mentioning sharingan.

Aizens release is faster then a bijuu dama.

Naruto gets mind....ed before any bijuuu dama is fired. Which he cannot stop or escape in any way.

Slash GG.

You are not claiming much except that aizens illusion = genjutsu which is already disproved. Even if it was true it makes no difference as naruto still gets mind....ed and Shunpo slashed before he can do anything.

So far you have talked about half the narutoverse except naruto.

[Nigoyukai]

What's this again of Naruto/Kyuubi breaking out of Aizen's Kyouka Suigetsu illusions?
Let's not equalize Aizen's KS with the mechanics of genjutsu here....

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

You still have not disproved naruto getting illusion haxxed and slashed before he can do a bijuu dama.Your just rambling about sharingan and itachi which have no place in this fight. Sharingan has little to nothing to do with this as naruto could not defend even gainst the more advanced sharingan genjutsu.

I am saying aizens senses manipulation would not neccesairly use reiatsu. As i saked earlier how would a shikai like renji's use reiatsu? I never claimed that aizen does not use reiatsu at all which you just sucked out of your thumb.

Aizen sowrd takes out people not his illusions i thought that was obvious.

Aizen would slash him faster then he would fire his little bomb. Even if not there still kido.

Naruto has no solid defense defense against genjutsu or aizens illusion so stop mentioning sharingan.

Aizens release is faster then a bijuu dama.

Naruto gets mind....ed before any bijuuu dama is fired. Which he cannot stop or escape in any way.

Slash GG.

You are not claiming much except that aizens illusion = genjutsu which is already disproved. Even if it was true it makes no difference as naruto still gets mind....ed and Shunpo slashed before he can do anything.

So far you have talked about half the narutoverse except naruto.

You know what I find funny you don't want to comapare Aizen with genjutsu. But that is the only way you arguement would make sense. Aizen hits Naruto with illusion and then slash right. That is wh ere you arguemenr fails. Naruto can still go into beast mode while he is under an illusion. Aizens illusions doesn't take away mobility or the use of powers. Naruto can be seeing whatever and still nuke the area which is why you arguement is trash.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Cult of Personality

Indeed. So we defer to the one person who has demonstrated the ability to discern the difference between Aizen's illusions and reality.

Unohana, a medical expert with two hundred+ years of experience.

Is Naruto a medical expert with two hundred+ years of experience? No? Fancy that.

That is one individual who knew the mechanics of the ability. Which is in fact extremely similiar to genjutsu if not basically the same ability. So no he is not a medical expert but he is an expert on magic tricks like genjutsu thanks to the magic eyeball clan.

Being that he's not independent and is sealed inside of Naruto, he has to rely on Naruto's senses to know what's going on. Unless he possesses extrasensory perception. But as he, you know, doesn't, it doesn't matter if he's separate from Naruto or not.

That would be true if not Bee and the Hachibi proved that wrong. If each of their senses were connected then Bee would have never broken the genjutsu so easily. The forms that each of the beast take still even within the host still mainly consist of chakra.

He could, if he had a head .0001 seconds after the fight starts.

That would be true if the speed of the transformation didn't improve to the level it's at now. Not only that Naruto would have to stand there like a dumbass and stare at his shikai in order to get hit by it in the first place.

Debatable, but irrelevant. Aizen doesn't need to restrain him.

I beg to differ.

^Just now noticed this.

[mrsticky005]

The only reasons Aizen got captured is

1. Gin betrayed him and knew the secret to stopping Complete Hypnosis:

Prevent it from ever starting

2. Hyogokyou rejected Aizen. I.E Plot device. (but then again Hogykou IS a plot device so it balances out.)

If Naruto doesn't have knowledge then he gets mind screwed.

Nine Tails as well. If Nine Tails can sense Aizen at all it gets mind screwed
since it effects ALL the senses.

It's basically Izanagi meets Shisui's eye on a grand scale.

[MinatoXNaruto]

Originally Posted by Cult of Personality

Aizen doesn't use genjutsu. His illusions can't be broken.

Itachi put one person in a coma, and Kakashi's stamina is terrible anyway.

Aizen: Hello, Naruto. Look at yourself, now back to me, now back to yourself, now back to me. Sadly you aren't alive anymore. But if you had a head you could pretend you were alive. Look down, back up. You can't because I chopped your head off. Where are you? You're on a boat with the man who could kill you as easily as talk. Anything is possible because I'm written by Kubo and not that talentless hack Kishimoto. I'm on a horse.

Kubo's lost his way. Should've ended bleach a while ago. Kishi has lost his way now too. Part 1 Naruto was brilliant

[Cult of Personality]

Part 1 Naruto was above average. Part 2 Naruto is the suckiest suck that ever sucked. Twilight is better.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by MinatoXNaruto

Kubo's lost his way. Should've ended bleach a while ago. Kishi has lost his way now too. Part 1 Naruto was brilliant

No he hasn't. You just don't like Bleach and that's fine.

Bleach is the same as it always has been:

Flashy stylish battles with cool but not too deep characters, slight macabre touch, a thin plot with some fun twists , and a dramatic cinematic atmosphere. And of course plenty of trolling.

Bleach is basically a Fighting Game made into an anime.

That's the way it ALWAYS has been.

Of course it won't appeal to all. And that's fine.
I actually thought Bleach was too flashy at first.
But then it was like...you know what? So what.
This is cool. Why is it cool? Because it's cool.