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Omniverse Anything goes in this forum. Any multiverse, any singleverse, any fight. Just know in advance that Kakashi can't beat Superman.

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Old 09-29-2012, 11:38 AM   #21
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

@DL Your right, I never really realized how impressive a basic kunai throw is. The kunai never even drop lol
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:32 PM   #22
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

Speed is equalized, guys. Kunai speed is the same relative to Zabuza's speed, so it is equalized as well.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:20 PM   #23
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

Am I late?

Shika, if you recall, he managed to launch his cleaver from who knows how far away, embed it in a tree, and land on it with sheer power alone. It was far enough away that Kakashi and them didn't notice him in the area, and it was a pretty open area at that. If you consider the path they are walking on never showed a turn and the cleaver came from that direction, we can assume its... what... a minimum of 50m, possibly more? We could even come into the area of 100m, but for the sake of it, 50m.

Mind you, the cleaver spinning isn't per se very aerodynamic, especially with the huge hole near the top. That means for it to have traveled that far, that fast, managed to maintain altitude and cut into the tree, Zabu could prob. shoot a kunai off faster than anything Amon really reacts to.

And no, Kunai speed isn't relative to Zabu's speed, its relative to his power. Power is force, which is thrust that propels the kunai. In all regards, the kunai would, in fact, be left under the idea of "power equalized". Unless he is running and happens to let the kunai go as he passes by, I don't see how throwing is equated to speed.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:27 PM   #24
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

It's OP fiat, it doesn't have to make sense. The point is speed is equalized, and kunai speed remains the same relative to Zabuza's speed. You could just say that Amon becomes as fast as Zabuza.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:47 PM   #25
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

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It's OP fiat, it doesn't have to make sense. The point is speed is equalized, and kunai speed remains the same relative to Zabuza's speed. You could just say that Amon becomes as fast as Zabuza.
Doesn't mean he will react, but fine.
Amon's bloodbending is as fast as Zabuza's bloodbending, which is nonexistant. Now that that is eliminated from play, Water dragon.

OP fiat, right? Doesn't have to make sense.

But okay, I'll bite. In what possible way are his Kunai speed and his movement speed related? Thats like saying Zabuza's movement speed and his reactions are the same, or Zabuza's swinging speed is the same as his movement speed.

MLB pitchers throw in excess of 90mph, are you stating they also move at 90mph? Or are you just trying not to admit you just made an accidental stomp thread?
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Old 09-29-2012, 08:31 PM   #26
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

You aren't OP. OP means Original Poster, in case you didn't know. The OP gets to set the parameters of the match. Speed is equalized. Kunai speed and Zabuza's speed are both equalized relative to Amon's. This is not up for debate.
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Old 09-29-2012, 08:45 PM   #27
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

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You aren't OP. OP means Original Poster, in case you didn't know. The OP gets to set the parameters of the match. Speed is equalized. Kunai speed and Zabuza's speed are both equalized relative to Amon's. This is not up for debate.

Fine.

He throws his cleaver.
Now then, go ahead and change the rules again to account for the fact that his Cleaver will still outspeed Amon. After all, his cleaver isn't a kunai.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

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Fine.

He throws his cleaver.
Now then, go ahead and change the rules again to account for the fact that his Cleaver will still outspeed Amon. After all, his cleaver isn't a kunai.
It's not changing the rules. By "speed is equalized" I meant everything. Stop trying to find loopholes. Speed is not part of this debate.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:14 PM   #29
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

Fine, then Amon's bloodbending happens on an equal speed as Zabuza's.

Oh wait, Zabu doesn't have it.
In fact, Zabu doesn't have any bending, which means no speed.

So basically its Amon versus Zabuza in a fist fight, and we already know who wins that. Glad to see you made everything equal, meaning things that Zabu lacks have 0 speed. Equalize that out to 0 speed for Amon too.


Actually, thats fine. Kunai are on the same speed as Zabuza? Thats still blitzing speed since Amon wouldn't be able to react to Zabuza otherwise. They are the same speed as Amon? Thats also fine, since Amon doesn't have any bending speed. You really can't equalize speed on everything, but if you do, that means it comes down to strength which is Zabuza's win.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:20 PM   #30
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

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Fine, then Amon's bloodbending happens on an equal speed as Zabuza's.

Oh wait, Zabu doesn't have it.
In fact, Zabu doesn't have any bending, which means no speed.

So basically its Amon versus Zabuza in a fist fight, and we already know who wins that. Glad to see you made everything equal, meaning things that Zabu lacks have 0 speed. Equalize that out to 0 speed for Amon too.
What are you rambling about? Zabuza's physical speed is changed to equal Amon's speed. All of Zabuza's attacks, kunai, cleaver, etc., change in speed to be the same relative to Zabuza's equalized speed. Simple. Stop babbling incoherently.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:23 PM   #31
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

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What are you rambling about? Zabuza's physical speed is changed to equal Amon's speed. All of Zabuza's attacks, kunai, cleaver, etc., change in speed to be the same relative to Zabuza's equalized speed. Simple. Stop babbling incoherently.
Exactly. I'm babbling something you didn't think about, which is Zabuza and Amon's equalized bending speed. That amounts to a 0 on both sides.

You bringing Zabuza means we are taking higher speeds and bringing them to the lower equal value. Since Amon obviously has a bending speed that lets him bloodbend people and force them to miss attacks, and Zabuza lacks all forms of a bending speed, Amon is brought down to that nonexistant speed.

In short: No bending.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:23 PM   #32
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

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What are you rambling about? Zabuza's physical speed is changed to equal Amon's speed. All of Zabuza's attacks, kunai, cleaver, etc., change in speed to be the same relative to Zabuza's equalized speed. Simple. Stop babbling incoherently.
Bradley, you can change the speed all you want but you haven't changed Zabubza's strength. His speed is not responsible for how fast his kunais are thrown. All he has to do is throw it with a lot of power.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:26 PM   #33
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

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Bradley, you can change the speed all you want but you haven't changed Zabubza's strength. His speed is not responsible for how fast his kunais are thrown. All he has to do is throw it with a lot of power.
Bradley has made it so every element in this fight is of an equal speed to the lesser of the two values. Which is fine, since that means no bending for Amon's side. Fist fights go into Zabuza's favor, so its still his win.

OP fiat basically means he can play the words in any favor he wants, but from what he just said "Everything is equalized" and "Zabuza is brought down to match Amon's speed", it means two things.

1) All stats of speed are to be equalized
2) All stats are to be equalized with the lower of the two values.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:28 PM   #34
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

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Exactly. I'm babbling something you didn't think about, which is Zabuza and Amon's equalized bending speed. That amounts to a 0 on both sides.

You bringing Zabuza means we are taking higher speeds and bringing them to the lower equal value. Since Amon obviously has a bending speed that lets him bloodbend people and force them to miss attacks, and Zabuza lacks all forms of a bending speed, Amon is brought down to that nonexistant speed.

In short: No bending.
Zabuza doesn't need to have bending or bloodbending. Attack speeds remain the same relative to the speed of their user. Amon and Zabuza's physical reaction speeds are directly equalized; their attacks and abilities only change so that they remian the same relative to the user.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:32 PM   #35
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

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Zabuza doesn't need to have bending or bloodbending. Attack speeds remain the same relative to the speed of their user. Amon and Zabuza's physical reaction speeds are directly equalized; their attacks and abilities only change so that they remian the same relative to the user.
Nope, you said yourself.

Quote:
By "Speed is equalized" I meant everything
You're just playing with the motions right now and still losing out. No matter what you do with the wordage, this one statement overrides everything. You've made the OP statement as stated in the quote above, which means no bending.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:39 PM   #36
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

Lets try to get a lock soon, I'm getting bored of beating you at your own game.

Admitting to free-changing the rules basically is a violation of the "honesty" portion of our BG code of conduct.

Even if you don't, its Zabuza's win since you already stated everything to be equal, as well as everything being rounded down to the lower values of the opponent. Either Zabuza throws a kunai and its speed blitzes Amon's nonexistant reactions, or they fist fight because the attack speeds are also equalized out, meaning a nonexistant speed bending.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:41 PM   #37
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

Everything is effected by the equalization, which you (or DL) were trying to worm out of by saying stuff like the kunai speed wouldn't actually change at all. Kunai or bending speed adjusting relative to the characters is still being effected by the equalization. I am not "free-changing" the rules and I certainly haven't admitted to such.

Speed is equalized. Speed is not part of the discussion. This does not effect the existence of bending in the fight. Stop talking about speed or I'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the thread.

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Old 09-29-2012, 09:46 PM   #38
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

Bradley a kunai doesn't have any speed to equalize. It's not like the weapon just ran to Amon. It was thrown with strength. And with the amount of force the kunai was thrown, Amon wouldn't have time to react. He'd just stand there in awe.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:47 PM   #39
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

Kunai's don't have speed.

Brilliant.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:48 PM   #40
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Default Re: Amon vs. Zabuza

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Everything is effected by the equalization, which you (or DL) were trying to worm out of by saying stuff like the kunai speed wouldn't actually change at all. Kunai or bending speed adjusting relative to the characters is still being effected by the equalization.

Speed is equalized. Speed is not part of the discussion. This does not effect he existence of bending in the fight. Stop talking about speed or I'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the thread.

What thread? You've already given me the win, and you just handed it to me again. Bending exists, but it has no speed, by what you are saying.

Speed is everything, as much as you'd hate to admit it, because you brought in the ideal of "attack speed equalization". It requires inquiry in order to determine what attacks have a possibility of landing, as well as how the equalization works.

How exactly are you equalizing these values out, if I might ask? Or are you just throwing the word around to try and worm your way out of this?

Oh wait, thats right...

Quote:
It's not changing the rules. By "speed is equalized" I meant everything. Stop trying to find loopholes. Speed is not part of this debate.
If what you said here is true, and I assume it is since you said it, then that means bending speed is not part of the debate, which means no bending. Fist fight is ok by my terms, since if you remove all terms of speed all you have is raw power.

You can ignore me all you want, but it holds true. If you are going to discount Kunai speed then you have to do the same for bending of all forms. So how will you equalize the values, exactly?
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