Wooster's Thread of Tobi is blah blah blah: Now with Tobi is Tobi =D

[Bratcipheo]

have you thought about that Kishi deliberately never shows the MS when using his warp ability, since we'd then could figure out who he is?

We'd know if he'd be shisui, izuna or obito immediately, since we know the shapes of their eyes.

[Wooster]

What did I say about these threads. D=

[BozothyClown]

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

have you thought about that Kishi deliberately never shows the MS when using his warp ability, since we'd then could figure out who he is?

We'd know if he'd be shisui, izuna or obito immediately, since we know the shapes of their eyes.

That just seems like a stretch to me...And if that was the case it will make the unveiling so dumb. Mask comes off and it is Obito and now he has the MS because we see his face so he can use it finally.

No im not thinking so, His warping ability im positive doesnt come from his eye, When he fought the Konoha shinobi when they were chasing Sasuke(When the sasuke v Itachi) He simply moved his had over his body and disappeared, No warping motion was needed there.

Also when Konan was attacking him, Why blow your own body up and use Izangi and waste an eye if you have the MS and Susano?

[Bratcipheo]

Originally Posted by BozothyClown

That just seems like a stretch to me...And if that was the case it will make the unveiling so dumb. Mask comes off and it is Obito and now he has the MS because we see his face so he can use it finally.

No im not thinking so, His warping ability im positive doesnt come from his eye, When he fought the Konoha shinobi when they were chasing Sasuke(When the sasuke v Itachi) He simply moved his had over his body and disappeared, No warping motion was needed there.

Also when Konan was attacking him, Why blow your own body up and use Izangi and waste an eye if you have the MS and Susano?

He may have done it with the hand, but he has mostly done it what looks like the eye.
The revealing won't be dumb at all; but you could easily disprove me.
Find a shot of Tobi's eye, while he warps. Why is there no shot from his head/shoulders + visible eye while he warps? It's kinda odd, isn't it? Or even when he uses his hand to warp, you have no view of his eye at all.

And remember that the only other time space jutsu there is, is Kakahi's abilty with his MS. So it would be rather easy to conclude that other people can have this MS ability, it wouldn't even necessarily have to come from Obito, but could be a common trait in MS, like susano is (Madara has, aswell as itachi had)

And please don't bring the Yondaime's blink jutsu up, it is not a space time jutsu. Yondaime movies near lightspeed, making it look like he teleports. You can follow the path of chakra when he moves, this you cannot do with Tobi, he just completely disappears.
Like Kakashi's ability.

[BozothyClown]

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

He may have done it with the hand, but he has mostly done it what looks like the eye.
The revealing won't be dumb at all; but you could easily disprove me.
Find a shot of Tobi's eye, while he warps. Why is there no shot from his head/shoulders + visible eye while he warps? It's kinda odd, isn't it? Or even when he uses his hand to warp, you have no view of his eye at all.

And remember that the only other time space jutsu there is, is Kakahi's abilty with his MS. So it would be rather easy to conclude that other people can have this MS ability, it wouldn't even necessarily have to come from Obito, but could be a common trait in MS, like susano is (Madara has, aswell as itachi had)

And please don't bring the Yondaime's blink jutsu up, it is not a space time jutsu. Yondaime movies near lightspeed, making it look like he teleports. You can follow the path of chakra when he moves, this you cannot do with Tobi, he just completely disappears.
Like Kakashi's ability.

I know you said dont bring it up but im just going to say this. It is classified as a Space Time Jutsu, He transports himself to the location of the seal like he is summoning himself to the seal, summonig which we know is space time manipulation. Also if it wasnt one, Why would the 4th say Tobi has a better Space Time jutsu than himself and the 2nd?

Maybe the reveal wont be disappointing to some but to think that they havent show him to use any MS ability and then to seemingly out of nowhere use it because of his mask being off seems like a terrible plot move "Oh by the way now that my mask is gone I can spam Amaterasu and susano" I just dont like the thought of that.

Oh well, Be it Obito, Izuna, Shisui or whoever I just want to see so all this debating can be finished.

[Bratcipheo]

Originally Posted by BozothyClown

I know you said dont bring it up but im just going to say this. It is classified as a Space Time Jutsu, He transports himself to the location of the seal like he is summoning himself to the seal, summonig which we know is space time manipulation. Also if it wasnt one, Why would the 4th say Tobi has a better Space Time jutsu than himself and the 2nd?

Maybe the reveal wont be disappointing to some but to think that they havent show him to use any MS ability and then to seemingly out of nowhere use it because of his mask being off seems like a terrible plot move "Oh by the way now that my mask is gone I can spam Amaterasu and susano" I just dont like the thought of that.

Oh well, Be it Obito, Izuna, Shisui or whoever I just want to see so all this debating can be finished.

Okay checked, you're right, his ability actually is a space/time jutsu, with one big difference though!

chapter. 395 p.8-10

The fourth required seals for his jutsu to work, as abilities either require handseals or drawn seals; with the exception of dojutsu of sharingan.
As they Kakashi mentioned in that chapter, Tobi didn't use any seals at all, making it superior to the fourths ability and Shino confirmed that it wasn't a "mere" teleportation technique.

[kalmeast]

Originally Posted by BozothyClown

That just seems like a stretch to me...And if that was the case it will make the unveiling so dumb. Mask comes off and it is Obito and now he has the MS because we see his face so he can use it finally.

No im not thinking so, His warping ability im positive doesnt come from his eye, When he fought the Konoha shinobi when they were chasing Sasuke(When the sasuke v Itachi) He simply moved his had over his body and disappeared, No warping motion was needed there.
i've seen Deva Pein use his eye for shinra and hands as well...that doesn't mean shinra T doesn't come from the rinnegan, does it? because he used his hands. just a thought...
it's hard to believe Tobi's S/T is a power afforded by mere sharingan either...

Also when Konan was attacking him, Why blow your own body up and use Izangi and waste an eye if you have the MS and Susano?
The fact that he has MS doesn't mean he has Susanoo...susanoo is a rarity, tobi confirmed that. And the fact that he doesn't use susanoo doesn't mean he doesn't have MS.

agree with Bratcipheo here! It makes perfect sense Kishi deliberately hides Tobi's eye when ever he performs that jutsu cuz it might remind us of somebody? or perhaps give out a big clue he doesn't want us to have yet...

btw...my thought of Minato and Tobi's Space Time Justu...
They are similar....like mentioned above, they both have no path of reference between the two points... Minato's teleportation doesn't involve him moving at light speed, as a matter of fact, there's no path between point A to B, he disappears and reappears. tobi's more advance as it closes space. Say tobi is with Kakashi at point A and want's to go to Sasuke @ point B, when he erases his head, his body is with kakashi but his head is already appeared simultaneously at sasuke's so sasuke @ point B would begin to see the rest of his body appearing as kakashi at point A would be seeing his body disappear at the same time. If a path existed between the two point, then that'd be transportation i believe.

[Kyūbi no Yōko]

Tobi's advantage is that he can teleport anywhere, can warp other people, has his own dimension.
Minato's advantage is that the teleportation is light speed, therefore he can teleport at the marked place.
Though Tobi's Space-Time Migration is slow .
Minato can't teleport anywhere, he has to throw a kunai and stuff like that, but he can teleport at multiple places if he marks several spots .

-Regarding Bratcipheo's post : "i've seen Deva Pein use his eye for shinra and hands as well...that doesn't mean shinra T doesn't come from the rinnegan, does it? because he used his hands. just a thought...
it's hard to believe Tobi's S/T is a power afforded by mere sharingan either..."

Maybe Sharingan and Rinnegan are just a small requirement either to provide a special chakra, that only the ones with Dojutsu have. Shinra Tensei can be done by huge chakra, and the Rinnegan(that either provides that huge chakra, or has a special unique chakra that helps on doing the technique) .

Regarding Susano'o :
It's true, only a few with Mangekyo have Susano'o, but at the moment we have seen that every Uchiha with MS has Susano'o (except Shisui), though I don't believe he had it .
My thought is :
Susano'o is a "kekkei genkai" (not exactly one), but only a special bloodline that has MS can get Susano'o .. practically :
Madara had Susano'o.
If Tobi = Izuna, then prob. Izuna had Susano'o as well. Then the bloodline goes on to Sasuke's family, and that's how both Itachi and Sasuke got Susano'o .

[CJay_Greenman7]

Hmm, Tobi has the ability to use the chakra chains, the same ability Kushina had, thus making Tobi part Uzumaki, as this technique is a trait from the Uzumaki clan.

Maybe his due to his parents, one possibly was an Uchiha and one an Uzumaki, and gave birth to 'Tobi'!

Too much to consider!

[kopacmadara]

Originally Posted by Kyūbi no Yōko

Spoiler:

Let me gather some datas .

Kakashi becoming Jonin = 13 yrs old ---> Obito was 13 as well.

Obito would've been 14 when the incident happened. (Naruto = 12 yrs old; Kakashi = 26 yrs old --> 26 - 12 = 14 ---> Kyubi attacked on Naruto's birth)
For 1 year, a ninja(especially a lowskilled ninja, ex : Obito) cannot reach tremendous power. What Obito knew about Minato --> He could teleport, fast. (it's pretty important data)

What Tobi did on the Kyubi Incident :

-Summon 9-Tails
-Control 9-Tails
-Use Space-Time Jutsu
-Fight vs. Yondaime

Ok, summoning is not that hard, but first, to Summon you need to have a contract (not sure if it's the same with the Kyubi). Now, SUMMONING a Bijuu is something huge, something extremely huge, and as we've seen only 2 people can Summon a Bijuu and they are Tobi and Madara (unconfirmed if it was Madara who fought vs. Minato)

Controlling a Bijuu is out of the discussion, only certain people can do so, mentioning a few : Madara, Tobi, Yamato, Hashirama . (still it's not sure if they can control each Bijuu or only the Kyubi)

Space-Time Jutsus are on a very high level, and only a few people, high-skilled people can do them. Space-Time Migration (Tobi's Jutsu) lets the user teleport/warp himsef or others in a place he likes or teleport/warp himself or others in his own "pocket dimension". People who used Space-Time Jutsus : Minato, Tobirama, Tobi.

Fighting against a Shinobi like Yondaime (what he was capable of : teleport the Kyubi, teleport a Bijuu Dama, seal half of the Kyubi Chakra, made the sealing work so when the 8 tail would show Minato would force the seal, made Kushina meet Naruto for one last time in the future, expert on Fuinjutsu, etc...) is extremely hard, and almost even got him, except Yondaime was smarter and faster than Tobi.


All these stuff mentioned above cannot never ever ever be accomplished in 1 year, no matter who's the teacher, no matter what special kind of training you do, especially for a ninja like Obito, who knew nothing about Dojutsu except he knew that Uchiha had the Sharingan etc. ; he knew nothing about the Kyubi, he knew nothing at all. He was just 12 for God's sake. This was a pretty clear, simple explanation to you.

Something even shorter to tell that Tobi =/= Obito --> Obito was crushed, he even told he couldn't feel his right part, it was impossible to survive that.

Original Post was by me on Bratcipheo's thread : The Final Tobi is Obito explanation -- modified some little parts (which had nothing to do with the theory, just removed the part where I mentioned Bratcipheo)

You said we cannot say if those can control beasts or only Kurama. And I tell you we do know that. Sharingan users are limited to Kyuubi and that's what the thing in uchiha basement said about true powers of Sharingan when Sasuke read it. Hashirama though can control all the beasts and it has been said somewhere in the manga that they are sort of like his pets. Yamato had limited control over I think all the beast but now there's no 1st Hokage necklace so..

[kopacmadara]

Originally Posted by CJay_Greenman7

Hmm, Tobi has the ability to use the chakra chains, the same ability Kushina had, thus making Tobi part Uzumaki, as this technique is a trait from the Uzumaki clan.

Maybe his due to his parents, one possibly was an Uchiha and one an Uzumaki, and gave birth to 'Tobi'!

Too much to consider!

Yes he has to have both because Uzumaki = Senju and that is required for Rinnegan to have both. Though Madara for example used I think Zetsu to give him Senju DNA from 1st so that he can posses the Rinnegan.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Think about it.

1. When we first met Tobi he was called Tobi by Zetsu. Zetsu knows all, how could he/it/they get that wrong.

2. Tobi is a good boy!

3. Tobi wears a super awesome mask. Madara wears a lame emo one.

4. Tobi!

5. Tobo likes the Konoha folk. See how he plays with them? Awwww.

6. Sai Shaft! (This is the most important reason.)

7. If Tobi isn't Tobi, who is he? bit Yeah right, next you will be telling me he is Madara.

8. Tobi can make things pass through him. Too awesome, no?

9. Tobi can warp, soooo much faster than that slow-polk Madara

10. Because Jeeves told me so.

That's it.

Oh, bi approved!

Originally Posted by Wooster

Tobi is clown. Can't you tell when he is joking.

Oh that Tobi, such a great comedian.

Originally Posted by Wooster

Tobi is Tobi.

He is not a clone! How dare you?!

Originally Posted by Wooster

Poor Tobi. We should throw him a party! Who to invite?

I know:
Mr. Zetsuuuuuuuuu.

Originally Posted by Wooster

Wrong!
Tobi is Tobi.
Yamato is Tenzo.
Madara is dead.
AND Zetsu is the bomb!

I am like a friggin Prophet, mang!

Originally Posted by Wooster

Ha! You aren't thinking hard enough.

His mask is himself. See???

It's the perfect disguise that we all use.

It's deep, man.

Woooooah, far out.

Sometimes I even amaze myself.