God doesn't exist... agree or disagree?

[WishfulFairie]

Originally Posted by Xibitz360

^ Except that they are protected by "freedom of speech", Fairie. Although I agree with you on that whole BS thing.

Freedom of speech my butt!
You're either born into certain categories (be it ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, gender, or class) or you buy that right. If you don't have any of those things you just have to agree. Because heaven forbid if you don't. Freedom of speech is just an excuse to put others down. The way people use it was not what our forefathers intended it to be. We also get freedom of religion but that's really if you're Christian. And not those "those hallmark Jesus Christians" that say accept everyone. No, the "it's either or this way or hell" Christians. I'm sorry but there's no such thing, I don't believe in it.

Sorry if I offended anyone. That was my rant of the.....whatever

[Xibitz360]

Originally Posted by WishfulFairie

Freedom of speech my butt!
You're either born into certain categories (be it ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, gender, or class) or you buy that right. If you don't have any of those things you just have to agree. Because heaven forbid if you don't. Freedom of speech is just an excuse to put others down. The way people use it was not what our forefathers intended it to be. We also get freedom of religion but that's really if you're Christian. And not those "those hallmark Jesus Christians" that say accept everyone. No, the "it's either or this way or hell" Christians. I'm sorry but there's no such thing, I don't believe in it.

Sorry if I offended anyone. That was my rant of the.....whatever

I meant that when you said you would 'knock those people upside the head' and it was in a satirical way.

And yes, freedom of speech is not being put in practice as it should be. It is favorable to religion the majority of time and grants power to certain groups. The system fails miserably on this regard. (Separation of Church and State)

[Bacon]

Originally Posted by WishfulFairie

Freedom of speech my butt!
You're either born into certain categories (be it ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, gender, or class) or you buy that right. If you don't have any of those things you just have to agree. Because heaven forbid if you don't. Freedom of speech is just an excuse to put others down. The way people use it was not what our forefathers intended it to be. We also get freedom of religion but that's really if you're Christian. And not those "those hallmark Jesus Christians" that say accept everyone. No, the "it's either or this way or hell" Christians. I'm sorry but there's no such thing, I don't believe in it.

Sorry if I offended anyone. That was my rant of the.....whatever

Funny you should mention our forefathers because they intended freedom of speech to be that way. In order to say favorable things without repercussions, you have to let others say things which can be viewed as unfavorable.

Right now you made yourself to be a jackass,but it'd be you exercising your right to express yourself this way.

[WishfulFairie]

Originally Posted by Bacon

Funny you should mention our forefathers because they intended freedom of speech to be that way. In order to say favorable things without repercussions, you have to let others say things which can be viewed as unfavorable.

Right now you made yourself to be a jackass,but it'd be you exercising your right to express yourself this way.

yeah i realized i was being a jackass, just cranky >.>

[ItachiKisame]

I swear this place is never going to die.>.>

[JLI2infinity]

My original quote:

On an unrelated note, everyone entering this thread like "Nothing can be proven on either side bro. No one can prove or disprove he exists man so just chillax dude, we'll find out like in the future bro." You're not inserting ANYTHING profound into the conversation, it's something that's been said 20+ times in this thread so read before you enter. Other members have been discussing more interesting facets of religion like the belief in God giving people hope or whether or not sustaining belief in an unfalsifiable hypothesis is feasible given the lack of evidence. Your platitude which is already known by anyone who's done the most basic reading on this subject or watched an episode or two of Family Guy, doesn't move the thread forward whatsoever.

Originally Posted by WishfulFairie

@JL

Maybe we said you can't "disprove and prove" God may or may not exist because that's true and no one wants to offend anyone.....

You're bound to offend someone when you discuss a topic like this. People should leave the thread if this is too much for their delicate sensibilities.

What more can we say anyway?

>.> Maybe underlining it will get my point across better.

[WishfulFairie]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

My original quote:





You're bound to offend someone when you discuss a topic like this. People should leave the thread if this is too much for their delicate sensibilities.



>.> Maybe underlining it will get my point across better.

Well in my point of view, I do believe that having faith in God does give people a sense of security knowing that someone or entity is watching over them. And also that one will be united with a loved one who has been deceased. Excuse me if this answer is not enough but that's my statement and you may start picking away from that. (I'm in a mood for a debate)

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by WishfulFairie

Well in my point of view, I do believe that having faith in God does give people a sense of security knowing that someone or entity is watching over them. And also that one will be united with a loved one who has been deceased. Excuse me if this answer is not enough but that's my statement and you may start picking away from that. (I'm in a mood for a debate)

Me too so lets get at it because this thread will never die anyway :P.

Wouldnt this be a false sense of security considering there is no absolute proof for its exitence and even if there was which religion would be worshipping him in the 'right' way as people like to call it. God can exist but who says he is going to be the god you belief in.

This would even further be supported by the fact that you can gain a true sense of security from idk friends dont have any? Clubs/Familie/Pet etc etc etc and the list goes on.

I dont belief you would be reunited with a specific loved one (but i dont belief in any kind of god at all so thats pretty much mutual). What would be the whole point of going to all the grief and pain if you going to see the person later anyways. Why not shorten the time till reunting and kill yourself?

The closest thing to this that i am willing to belief is the belief that anything and anyone will return to the same source (it has a hard to spell name).

[WishfulFairie]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Me too so lets get at it because this thread will never die anyway :P.

Wouldnt this be a false sense of security considering there is no absolute proof for its exitence and even if there was which religion would be worshipping him in the 'right' way as people like to call it. God can exist but who says he is going to be the god you belief in.

This would even further be supported by the fact that you can gain a true sense of security from idk friends dont have any? Clubs/Familie/Pet etc etc etc and the list goes on.

I dont belief you would be reunited with a specific loved one (but i dont belief in any kind of god at all so thats pretty much mutual). What would be the whole point of going to all the grief and pain if you going to see the person later anyways. Why not shorten the time till reunting and kill yourself?

The closest thing to this that i am willing to belief is the belief that anything and anyone will return to the same source (it has a hard to spell name).

I don't believe that their is one right God. In my opinion, all religions are linked. So for me, I just believe in what suits me. For it is called my faith. I don't believe in everything my religion says but I believe some truths in other faiths.

Now to the sense of security. You are right in your points. It is somewhat a false sense of security and there are ways to gain a true sense. But it seems to be human nature that we believe that there is no one who understands us fully. Or that when it comes to things that are out of our hands (natural events/disasters) it gives a sense of hope to turn to an entity who will listen to us and is always there with us spiritually even in times when we are alone physically. And for the death: when someone dies they aren't going to pop up every now and then to say hi. Yes, they are still alive in our hearts and we continue to cherish them in memories but having the idea that we could see them again does make the thought of death easier to cope with.

[TheTrueMasterofIllusions]

All Hail Elohim God High On MJ and who tooted me unto existence to be with my stinky bros and (w)hos.

[Xibitz360]

Originally Posted by ItachiKisame

I swear this place is never going to die.>.>

It's never going to die and it shouldn't. This topic matters to a lot of people (if not all of us) and it is a good place to argue, dialogue, express or exchange your thoughts/ideas with other people.

[Cloukora]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

My original quote:





You're bound to offend someone when you discuss a topic like this. People should leave the thread if this is too much for their delicate sensibilities.



>.> Maybe underlining it will get my point across better.

I'm sorry, but I remember you saying you're not trying to convert people to your beliefs, yet it seems like you are. Maybe it's just me. I don't know.

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Me too so lets get at it because this thread will never die anyway :P.

Wouldnt this be a false sense of security considering there is no absolute proof for its exitence and even if there was which religion would be worshipping him in the 'right' way as people like to call it. God can exist but who says he is going to be the god you belief in.

This would even further be supported by the fact that you can gain a true sense of security from idk friends dont have any? Clubs/Familie/Pet etc etc etc and the list goes on.

I dont belief you would be reunited with a specific loved one (but i dont belief in any kind of god at all so thats pretty much mutual). What would be the whole point of going to all the grief and pain if you going to see the person later anyways. Why not shorten the time till reunting and kill yourself?

The closest thing to this that i am willing to belief is the belief that anything and anyone will return to the same source (it has a hard to spell name).

Why does it have to be a bad thing even though it's false? They could gain security from clubs and families and such, but what if they don't have those things? Or access to them? God may be the only sense of security they have.

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by Cloukora

I'm sorry, but I remember you saying you're not trying to convert people to your beliefs, yet it seems like you are. Maybe it's just me. I don't know.

No, I'm not trying to convert anyone because I highly doubt I will, I just provide my point of view when people make certain statements and counter certain points I see put forward. Giving people a different perspective.

Why does it have to be a bad thing even though it's false? They could gain security from clubs and families and such, but what if they don't have those things? Or access to them? God may be the only sense of security they have.

I mean it doesn't have to be bad. But is that what you're reverting God to. It sounds like a good afterschool program in one of those corny movies...

"I mean they could be on the streets slingin raw but instead we have them here doing [insert activity here], a lot of these kids don't have good friends or families, and the system gave up on them but [insert activity here] gives them a place to belong and a positive outlet."

I know I was just mocking it but I actually don't mind those kind of things. I think they are great, but have you ever noticed that they don't actually solve the problem they only serve as aids. Whenever you watch those kind of movies check out the credits that tell the audience what happened to each character. It becomes their responsibility to make something of their situation. The activity may have been a stepping stone but it doesn't do it for them, they go to college or practice their talents or some of them ultimately fail. Even if the activity was an integral part of their success it didn't do anything that person did, and it didn't teach them the person that inspired them did.

Therefore, when people use God for security or inspiration they need to understand it was THEM who made the change, they were the ones who did the good deed not God. Yet that's not how it tends to work with religion. God is the one who's given all the credit. Something good happens in someone's life, thank God. You put in hundreds of hours at work for that promotion, it wouldn't have been possible without God. No, it was that person that did the work and if there were some factors out of their control that had to do with it, that wasn't God either it was just things lining up in their favor. Using God for security or inspiration is completely different than claiming he specifically intervened on your behalf. One view is humble while the other is arrogant.

Originally Posted by WishfulFairie

I don't believe that their is one right God. In my opinion, all religions are linked. So for me, I just believe in what suits me. For it is called my faith. I don't believe in everything my religion says but I believe some truths in other faiths.

Now to the sense of security. You are right in your points. It is somewhat a false sense of security and there are ways to gain a true sense. But it seems to be human nature that we believe that there is no one who understands us fully. Or that when it comes to things that are out of our hands (natural events/disasters) it gives a sense of hope to turn to an entity who will listen to us and is always there with us spiritually even in times when we are alone physically. And for the death: when someone dies they aren't going to pop up every now and then to say hi. Yes, they are still alive in our hearts and we continue to cherish them in memories but having the idea that we could see them again does make the thought of death easier to cope with.

Ok all that's fine. In my opinion it doesn't serve a purpose but it's fine nonetheless. However, when your faith begins to overlap with superstition (and I'm avoiding the obvious joke that they are the same thing) that is where the problem lies. On a personal level, let's say there is a family medical crisis, where God forbid (pun intended), one of your relatives ends up in a state where they want to be euthenized. Does that faith that you'll see them again in the afterlife have a stipulation that you can see them only if you don't kill anyone yourself, or they don't commit suicide? Now you have a dilemna because that faith that prevented suffering before is now the main cause of it.

But from what I'm getting by your post, your liberal view of religion probably (conveniently) wouldn't allow such a problem to arise. However, that's not the case for many others. Of course, this was an extreme example. On average most people won't encounter situations like this and so your logic can hold. As long as your own problems with faith don't become mine, anyone close to me's, or the general public's there is nothing wrong with it.

[WishfulFairie]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

Ok all that's fine. In my opinion it doesn't serve a purpose but it's fine nonetheless. However, when your faith begins to overlap with superstition (and I'm avoiding the obvious joke that they are the same thing) that is where the problem lies. On a personal level, let's say there is a family medical crisis, where God forbid (pun intended), one of your relatives ends up in a state where they want to be euthenized. Does that faith that you'll see them again in the afterlife have a stipulation that you can see them only if you don't kill anyone yourself, or they don't commit suicide? Now you have a dilemna because that faith that prevented suffering before is now the main cause of it.

But from what I'm getting by your post, your liberal view of religion probably (conveniently) wouldn't allow such a problem to arise. However, that's not the case for many others. Of course, this was an extreme example. On average most people won't encounter situations like this and so your logic can hold. As long as your own problems with faith don't become mine, anyone close to me's, or the general public's there is nothing wrong with it.

Now euthansia isn't necessarily a sin... depending on the situation. If this is a case that the person is in a vegetative state or won't last a second once the "plug" is pulled.
For that suicide topic. I was taught (and do believe) that suicide is only a sin if you are actually intending to offend God (like some weird anti-God cult) or if you just choose to throw your life away for no reason whatsoever. It is NOT a sin if it was due to depression or great pain. Only God knows what's in someone's heart and thereby judges you on that. But again this is what I've been taught. In all the religion classes I've had that was what has been taught. I don't know if other Christians or any other type of faith believes that but I do. I'm a Catholic

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by WishfulFairie

Now euthansia isn't necessarily a sin... depending on the situation. If this is a case that the person is in a vegetative state or won't last a second once the "plug" is pulled.
For that suicide topic. I was taught (and do believe) that suicide is only a sin if you are actually intending to offend God (like some weird anti-God cult) or if you just choose to throw your life away for no reason whatsoever. It is NOT a sin if it was due to depression or great pain. Only God knows what's in someone's heart and thereby judges you on that. But again this is what I've been taught. In all the religion classes I've had that was what has been taught. I don't know if other Christians or any other type of faith believes that but I do. I'm a Catholic

Yeah I figured you'd have some liberal interpretation of religion or the Bible that allowed you to escape this loophole because that's what a lot of mainstream religion in Western society does now-a-days. People cherrypick and analyze the scriptures that suit their own secular view of morality.

Oh the Bible says no suicide, many religious people strictly abide by that until people start realizing depression is a psychological illness or sometimes euthanasia is the kind way to end things. Now all of the sudden people start scrambling for every little word that can be interpreted to their benefit. "Oh you see here in this one verse in this one chapter it might possibly could not not say that suicide is wrong only if it's done this way."

Several verses in the Bible make it explicitly clear the homosexuality is wrong, "Oh but look the Bible talks about love and Jesus never said it was a problem, so everything Jesus didn't mention must be okay," or "I don't really believe in that Old Testament stuff I was taught [insert secular morality not taught in the Bible here]"

The big overarching thing I see a lot of people use to escape these things and express the whole God is love thing is the Golden Rule, a tenet that predates the Bible by the way and can be found in some variation in several other religions. Bring up some Biblical horror stories to someone not trained by their preacher or Sunday school teacher or religious school to point out how they were exaggerated or how they aren't that bad. And I bet at least 1 out of every 5 of them will say, "That's not what Jesus said, Jesus said to love thy neighbor as thyself. He wouldn't condone such behavior so it couldn't have been God."

Yet for some reason everyone ignores the verse of the Bible where Jesus says "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." The Law being God's mandates which include those in the Old Testament. Of course then the argument becomes he only referred to moral laws and so the next course of action is to argue that things like slavery and mistreatment of women are ceremonial laws instead of moral ones, which sounds ridiculous.

[WishfulFairie]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

Yeah I figured you'd have some liberal interpretation of religion or the Bible that allowed you to escape this loophole because that's what a lot of mainstream religion in Western society does now-a-days. People cherrypick and analyze the scriptures that suit their own secular view of morality.

Oh the Bible says no suicide, many religious people strictly abide by that until people start realizing depression is a psychological illness or sometimes euthanasia is the kind way to end things. Now all of the sudden people start scrambling for every little word that can be interpreted to their benefit. "Oh you see here in this one verse in this one chapter it might possibly could not not say that suicide is wrong only if it's done this way."

I guess that accounts for the fact when we say suicide is wrong we mean by saying that it's basically a slap in the face to God because he gave you life and you're just ending it. But when you are under some sort of psychological illness, you aren't think that way. I'm pretty sure a majority of those people aren't committing suicide to piss God off...

Several verses in the Bible make it explicitly clear the homosexuality is wrong, "Oh but look the Bible talks about love and Jesus never said it was a problem, so everything Jesus didn't mention must be okay," or "I don't really believe in that Old Testament stuff I was taught [insert secular morality not taught in the Bible here]"

Yes that is true, but Christians aren't taught that homosexuality is okay. We are taught that it is wrong because, in terms, it's unnatural. I don't want to get into whether it is or isn't We are just taught that we have no right to judge. Jesus practically states that in John 8 (the verses escape me right now) "he who is without sin cast the first stone" So I keep my opinions on a majority of things to myself (I prefer my face the way it is). So, no we aren't taught that homosexualitity is right, just don't judge. Whether or not someeone deems it alright, has nothing to do with religion just their outlook on life.

The big overarching thing I see a lot of people use to escape these things and express the whole God is love thing is the Golden Rule, a tenet that predates the Bible by the way and can be found in some variation in several other religions. Bring up some Biblical horror stories to someone not trained by their preacher or Sunday school teacher or religious school to point out how they were exaggerated or how they aren't that bad. And I bet at least 1 out of every 5 of them will say, "That's not what Jesus said, Jesus said to love thy neighbor as thyself. He wouldn't condone such behavior so it couldn't have been God."

Well, Jesus wouldn't condone it since he was pro-love. I mean, he was trying to state that God isn't as "angry or cruel" as we all thought; that God is willing to forgive us if we repent and make an effort not to do those things again.

Yet for some reason everyone ignores the verse of the Bible where Jesus says "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." The Law being God's mandates which include those in the Old Testament. Of course then the argument becomes he only referred to moral laws and so the next course of action is to argue that things like slavery and mistreatment of women are ceremonial laws instead of moral ones, which sounds ridiculous.

Yes the law is the law. But it isn't our place as human beings, to do God's job and decide how to punish those for breaking the laws. Only God knows and in the end it's his decision. And also to go back to the forgiveness thing, he will forgive for he knows what's truly in our hearts.
Don't ask me where that's from because I have no idea (ceremonial my butt!). All I know for sure is that even with divine inspiration the Bible is flawed (of course) It's written biased and most things are exaggerated. For example: the genesis. God didn't make the world in seven days. How can one define time to a being who isn't affected by time. The Noah's Ark one.....eh...I think that flood mainly happened around the fertile crescent and areas around it (the Greeks have a similar version except some woman named Helen (?) survived. How she repopulated the earth is beyond me). Also the number of Hebrews in the Exodus was exaggerated (and that was just counting the men). Writers back then didn't focus much on facts but the message.

[Sasuke493]

Okay, Allow me to post now..Weirdos. :P

As a mixture of two religions I am obligated to believe in God. However, With all of these many stories I am hearing, I cannot see which is real and which is merely myth. Any evidence of God's existence may just be sheer coincidence. There's no proof whatsoever of God's actual existence. And therefore, I must conclude, I do not believe in a so called "God."

Also, There is another reason. Whenever I ask, "How did GOD exist?" The only answer I EVER hear is always the same. "God always existed." Really? Where's the real answer? How did he exists. Again, there is no proof that I know of supporting the fact of God's existence, and therefore, I must put my final answer.

To me, God is merely a myth, and is not real.

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by WishfulFairie

I guess that accounts for the fact when we say suicide is wrong we mean by saying that it's basically a slap in the face to God because he gave you life and you're just ending it. But when you are under some sort of psychological illness, you aren't think that way. I'm pretty sure a majority of those people aren't committing suicide to piss God off...

Looks like this debate isn't going to end soon. No problem for me

My point is that you were taught that way and interpret the Bible that way on suicide because that's the way you and your teachers feel is right. I haven't read too much on the subject of suicide in the Bible but my main point is that no matter what the Bible says people will read it like a legal document searching for the slightest contradiction or loophole when it is at odds with what they want to do. Sure, your religious teachers might interpret the Bible's teachings on suicide to have the stipulation that it's only a sin if you're trying to do it to spite God but I'm sure there are people who believe it's a sin no matter what and the funny thing is they could (I'm not saying they do) have far more evidence for their side then you do for yours. Mankind interprets Biblical morality on the basis of secular morality, not vice versa, contrary to popular belief

Yes that is true, but Christians aren't taught that homosexuality is okay. We are taught that it is wrong because, in terms, it's unnatural. I don't want to get into whether it is or isn't We are just taught that we have no right to judge. Jesus practically states that in John 8 (the verses escape me right now) "he who is without sin cast the first stone" So I keep my opinions on a majority of things to myself (I prefer my face the way it is). So, no we aren't taught that homosexualitity is right, just don't judge. Whether or not someeone deems it alright, has nothing to do with religion just their outlook on life.

Well, Jesus wouldn't condone it since he was pro-love. I mean, he was trying to state that God isn't as "angry or cruel" as we all thought; that God is willing to forgive us if we repent and make an effort not to do those things again.

Well, how to tackle this. I don't want to get into the omniscience paradox here, or how it is logically impossible for God to have emotions...hmmm. And I do agree that most times Jesus preached a pretty loving message, it's his daddy that rages a lot. Umm I guess I'll just leave this one alone because I kind of agree.

Yes the law is the law. But it isn't our place as human beings, to do God's job and decide how to punish those for breaking the laws. Only God knows and in the end it's his decision. And also to go back to the forgiveness thing, he will forgive for he knows what's truly in our hearts.
Don't ask me where that's from because I have no idea (ceremonial my butt!). All I know for sure is that even with divine inspiration the Bible is flawed (of course) It's written biased and most things are exaggerated. For example: the genesis. God didn't make the world in seven days. How can one define time to a being who isn't affected by time. The Noah's Ark one.....eh...I think that flood mainly happened around the fertile crescent and areas around it (the Greeks have a similar version except some woman named Helen (?) survived. How she repopulated the earth is beyond me). Also the number of Hebrews in the Exodus was exaggerated (and that was just counting the men). Writers back then didn't focus much on facts but the message.

Well yes the law is the law, but no you are wrong about the Bible telling us not to do anything. The Bible in numerous verses specifically lays out the punishment sinners should receive for certain acts, and as I pointed out in that verse, Jesus says that all those previous laws are correct and should be followed until the end of the Earth. Not to mention all the stories where God told his followers to kill group X and conquer group Y.

Yes, I agree that a lot of the stories are exaggerated or just flat out didn't happen. But my point is this whole liberal Christianity of...well let's just look at the message of these tales...wasn't in the Bible. It's supported nowhere in your holy book, nor does that book make any mention that those stories might be false. I do sort of understand the logic though. You don't have to reject the major premise (that there is a God who created the universe) even if several details are true. Just like I could have a bogus physics experiment but when I'm wrong it doesn't mean scientific theories I based my experiment on don't exist (e.g. gravity, force, etc.).

But if I accept that there are several aspects of my experiment that aren't correct I can't now nitpick which aspects are and then expect everyone to hold them as true. Therefore, someone can't just accept that Noah's Ark, the story of Moses, etc. are exaggerated and then say but Jesus is still the son of God and performed all these miracles, we must have gotten that right.


Anyways I think I got sidetracked from the original argument. Which was "Is providing hope and emotional support a valid reason to believe in God?" To that I'd say...yes. However, depending on the set of rules that come with your belief that may be counterintuitive. Also, it should be noted that this belief has no bearing on a point about existence and therefore using that belief in an attempt to affect public policy or as an excuse for behavior that affects others is not acceptable.

Moreover, I think that while hope and emotional support are great to have getting them from God isn't the best way. I can understand why it would seem like it though. You isolate the source of hope by placing it in an unfalsifiable hypothesis, then there's no way anyone can take it away from you. But by placing your source of hope and emotional support in our world you set the path for healthy personal growth. Believing in a benevolent, omnipotent being is easy; well not in the sense of his existence, but for emotional reasons yeah that's a one size fits all, solution to every problem. But believing in others is hard to do, it will come with a lot more disappointment. And believing in yourself is even harder. You know your weaknesses and limits. They are constantly in your face. When others fail you, you have to understand that you have the power to push yourself forward. And ultimately if it all doesn't work out you have to accept that there are things completely out of your control. Something you can't manipulate or appease. And that's one of the scariest things of this world.

[WishfulFairie]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

Looks like this debate isn't going to end soon. No problem for me

My point is that you were taught that way and interpret the Bible that way on suicide because that's the way you and your teachers feel is right. I haven't read too much on the subject of suicide in the Bible but my main point is that no matter what the Bible says people will read it like a legal document searching for the slightest contradiction or loophole when it is at odds with what they want to do. Sure, your religious teachers might interpret the Bible's teachings on suicide to have the stipulation that it's only a sin if you're trying to do it to spite God but I'm sure there are people who believe it's a sin no matter what and the funny thing is they could (I'm not saying they do) have far more evidence for their side then you do for yours. Mankind interprets Biblical morality on the basis of secular morality, not vice versa, contrary to popular belief

It better not end, we need debates!

No going to argue too much on this mainly because I agree with you on that. Plus, I see you went full blast at the end

Well, how to tackle this. I don't want to get into the omniscience paradox here, or how it is logically impossible for God to have emotions...hmmm. And I do agree that most times Jesus preached a pretty loving message, it's his daddy that rages a lot. Umm I guess I'll just leave this one alone because I kind of agree.

Let's just say he's an angry deity XD

Well yes the law is the law, but no you are wrong about the Bible telling us not to do anything. The Bible in numerous verses specifically lays out the punishment sinners should receive for certain acts, and as I pointed out in that verse, Jesus says that all those previous laws are correct and should be followed until the end of the Earth. Not to mention all the stories where God told his followers to kill group X and conquer group Y.

The question is...did God say those specific punishments or did man (we are not counting hell)?
Not gonna argue there
At the time they were his chosen and thereby favorite people. Then he opened his heart to the rest of us and quit playing favorites

Yes, I agree that a lot of the stories are exaggerated or just flat out didn't happen. But my point is this whole liberal Christianity of...well let's just look at the message of these tales...wasn't in the Bible. It's supported nowhere in your holy book, nor does that book make any mention that those stories might be false. I do sort of understand the logic though. You don't have to reject the major premise (that there is a God who created the universe) even if several details are true. Just like I could have a bogus physics experiment but when I'm wrong it doesn't mean scientific theories I based my experiment on don't exist (e.g. gravity, force, etc.).

You are right it doesn't but as I've said before, authors back then weren't interested in facts but by getting their points across >.>

But if I accept that there are several aspects of my experiment that aren't correct I can't now nitpick which aspects are and then expect everyone to hold them as true. Therefore, someone can't just accept that Noah's Ark, the story of Moses, etc. are exaggerated and then say but Jesus is still the son of God and performed all these miracles, we must have gotten that right.

Noah's Ark is exaggerated. No way he and his family repopulated the whole earth......(can't even type that with a straight face). As for Moses...It's exaggerated in numbers or else the Hebrews could have just rebelled. And no bread fell from the sky, it was probably a think from a bug (like how honey is bee vomit) that resembled a bread..or mold. One are the other. And yes we Christans believe in the red Sea parting...(we're just weird like that).
As for Jesus..wheteher or npt you believe he's the messiah, he's a prophet and a historical figure responsible for starting a religion with magic powers. Plus there were witnesses (Well, it's more proof than the others >.>)

Anyways I think I got sidetracked from the original argument. Which was "Is providing hope and emotional support a valid reason to believe in God?" To that I'd say...yes. However, depending on the set of rules that come with your belief that may be counterintuitive. Also, it should be noted that this belief has no bearing on a point about existence and therefore using that belief in an attempt to affect public policy or as an excuse for behavior that affects others is not acceptable.

I agree with you one that.

Moreover, I think that while hope and emotional support are great to have getting them from God isn't the best way. I can understand why it would seem like it though. You isolate the source of hope by placing it in an unfalsifiable hypothesis, then there's no way anyone can take it away from you. But by placing your source of hope and emotional support in our world you set the path for healthy personal growth. Believing in a benevolent, omnipotent being is easy; well not in the sense of his existence, but for emotional reasons yeah that's a one size fits all, solution to every problem. But believing in others is hard to do, it will come with a lot more disappointment. And believing in yourself is even harder. You know your weaknesses and limits. They are constantly in your face. When others fail you, you have to understand that you have the power to push yourself forward. And ultimately if it all doesn't work out you have to accept that there are things completely out of your control. Something you can't manipulate or appease. And that's one of the scariest things of this world.

No, it's not but in times of crisis when you're all alone it kinda helpsI don't know about others..but the purpose of God in that area is not so he does everything and hands it to you but that he is there to help push you forward. It's reassuring to have at least one person (figuratively speaking) who is by your side no matter what even when everyone else is against you.

For the main part I agree with you. I'm too liberal. We need a cold-hard conservative on here so we can get this thing going, dangnabbit!

[BoxHead]

I'm as liberal as you can get, but living in the most Conservative part of town, I can vouch.

"God is the only thing stopping me from shooting people up and raping women,"







....note to self: Don't listen to people IRL.