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Old 09-11-2012, 12:07 PM   #81
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

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the mere fact that this isn't happening in the seiretei demolishes it as valid

and it will not be used as such here until he slags the surface of spirit world

we're talking damages near what Roshi should be able to do..basically and he hasn't shown it yet
We have no proof that Sereitei's atmosphere is the same as Earth's. It is a well known fact that having the sun's temperature anywhere on the Earth's surface would destroy our atmosphere. Sereitei is also surrounded by a giant barrier that took a cannonball made up of hardened reiatsu to penetrate. Moreover, Unohana just said she hopes Yama finishes the fight before his power destroys everything. Man, you sure do hate that Roshi feat but this isn't the same thing. Moreover, Yamamoto isn't the type to exaggerate when he says something like 15 million degrees. Maybe Kubo will make it a joke meant to psych out the opponent like Gin saying his sword expands 500 times the speed of sound but that would be OoC seeing as Yama has never exaggerated any of his capabilities before.
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:11 PM   #82
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

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We have no proof that Sereitei's atmosphere is the same as Earth's.
you're right it's an environment composed of very fragile particles that a mere quincy can easily break down to their sub atomic structure and use to power themselves

Yama cutting loose in an even frailer environment makes little sense if he burns that hot
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:36 PM   #83
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

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you're right it's an environment composed of very fragile particles that a mere quincy can easily break down to their sub atomic structure and use to power themselves

Yama cutting loose in an even frailer environment makes little sense if he burns that hot
Umm...did you just ignore the part of my post where I told you Seretei is surrounded by a very strong barrier? Also, you're just slinging around adjectives to support your side of the argument. Why do the particles have to be "fragile." The basic ability of a quincy is to manipulate reishi and use them in battle, every creature in Soul Society does this to some degree Quincies are just better suited to do it, and at high levels they have to forcibly break the bonds of solid objects. I also don't know how you managed to determine the magnitude at which reishi is broken down, sounds like you just pulled the sub-atomic scale out your a$$. Your example would be the same as if I said this...

"Earth's atmosphere is strong? Haha yeah right? It's an environment where mere humans can easily take in 'fragile' oxygen molecules and use them to help power themselves. There's no way it can take things like rockets being sent off into space."

What you said doesn't provide any information about the atmosphere of Seretei just like what I said doesn't give you any detail as to the mechanics behind Earth's atmosphere and why it can withstand intense heat from rocket launches. My example also doesn't explain why oxygen molecules are "fragile." Just because something can be manipulated or used to an individual's benefit doesn't make it weak.

EDIT: And how can you compare the strength of a reiatsu particle with the molecules that comprise living matter. It seems to me the only people who would be qualified to do that are the inhabitants of the Bleachverse and considering their world enables them to send people flying through buildings with a single punch and age so slowly that males and females centuries old can still look like little boys and girls I'm inclined to think their molecules and natural systems are a lot more efficient than ours.

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Old 09-11-2012, 08:13 PM   #84
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

While just recently shown many key things should be noted from Yamamatos bankai. However it should be noted%

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Old 09-11-2012, 10:32 PM   #85
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

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While just recently shown many key things should be noted from Yamamatos bankai. However it should be noted that we havenot yet seen his Fire Armor in action yet. One of the consistent abilites of strong bankais is the ability to effect the weather. I would say within 5 minuets his reistu started to drain all of the water in soul society. This is confirmed when Hyourinmaru is stated to not having the ability to function.

Whether not his 1.5 million degrees should be taken seriously is to debate. I donot think he is actually 1.5 million degrees, cause if he was the entirety of soul society would be liquified by now unless like JLI2infinity implied that soul society is atomically tougher than our universe.

However their are bits of evidence that we can analyze from the manga. First of all is the statement " it simply blows away anything it touches". Furthermore when a sword reaches the vicinity of yamamoto it does not dissolve or liquify like it was melted it simply disappears. For flames to be that hot, his 15 million degrees may not be complete hyperbole.

Another hint to whether he is overstating his heat is the no water situation. Water turns to gas at 100 degrees C. Considering their is no water in the area you could assume that it is at-least 100 degrees C considering how quickly the Soul Society lost water.
However, if water evaporated then where are the clouds? Or steam, or fog? For water to completely disappear from the atmosphere it would have to be insanely hot. This is another indicator of how hot Yamamoto really is. Considering his sword destroying feat with mind you an invisible heat barrier bullets arenot touching the guy, and his affect on the environment could possibly actually kill people almost instantly depending on how hot he truly is. In the end, it is possible that Yamamoto casually wrecks cities by walking around in bankai. 1.5 million degrees hot as sun flames is some really tough .
Maybe it was a translation error but I read 15 million degrees which makes sense since that is the estimated temperature of the Sun's core in Celsius which would be the scale Japan goes by. I still find it believable that he's that temperature if he's containing the flames. You're right that Seretei would be a heaping pile of liquid if he let that heat go but he's keeping it around himself as a kind of aura and focusing it to specific points. And even with all that Unohana is still worried that Sereitei's going to be destroyed. I also think another good piece of evidence that Seretei is stronger than the living world is the fact that Yamamoto was unwilling to use his bankai on Aizen, but decided to use it there. A lot of fans wondered why if Yama was willing to sacrifice a bunch of captains in an inferno he didn't just use his bankai, and my theory was that it was probably so powerful he couldn't release it in the living world without huge consequences.
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:15 AM   #86
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

Revoking my previous decision if yamamotos bankai actually is the temperature of the sun he casually solos by walking around wrecking ecosystems and disabling most if not at technology due to overheating/melting it.
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:19 AM   #87
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

I'm fairly sure shikai would suffice in that regard, so this is just splitting hairs, but considering that's not happening to Soul Society, it's probable that the heat of Remnant Sun Prison Garb is entirely self-contained, and as he hasn't shown to be able to project it yet, it won't suffice to do as specified.
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Old 09-15-2012, 05:28 PM   #88
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

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I'm fairly sure shikai would suffice in that regard, so this is just splitting hairs, but considering that's not happening to Soul Society, it's probable that the heat of Remnant Sun Prison Garb is entirely self-contained, and as he hasn't shown to be able to project it yet, it won't suffice to do as specified.
He's able to focus the flames to a about a .5 inch wide, 48 inch long surface, I think projecting the flames isn't that big a deal for him. I pretty sure the Quincy Boss even thought the he should be projecting the flames because he was wondering what happened to Yama's bankai since last time because no flames were present when he cut. Also, like I said before you're probably right that he's choosing to contain the flames because Unohana stated that she thinks he should finish the fight quickly because his power is enough to destroy Seretei.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:14 AM   #89
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

Well after reading the latest chapter of Bleach. We get owned by Yamamoto going Bankai. All he has to do is use Zanki No Tachi West and he reaches 15,000,000 degrees which we would die and then he could use ''South'' and call in the dead to murder us. Also just the edge of his sword can blow a city. Yep Bleachverse alone solos us.
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Old 09-29-2012, 08:58 PM   #90
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

Meh. If Yamamoto could extend his sun heat to areas further than the cloak then there would be no Bleach-he could've easily gone to Hueco Mundo and wherever the Quincy are from, released the heat and killed everything. So no-Yamamoto cannot create an artificial sun. The whole purpose of the mantle was to stop things from attacking him anyway.

On another note, every time a thread involving the entire Narutoverse is brought up you have to take Edo Tensei into account. With a year's prep they could have a huge army of undying ninja with unlimited chakra-what do we have to deal with that? Sorry if this was addressed earlier, I didn't read every post.
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Old 09-30-2012, 02:20 AM   #91
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

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Meh. If Yamamoto could extend his sun heat to areas further than the cloak then there would be no Bleach-he could've easily gone to Hueco Mundo and wherever the Quincy are from, released the heat and killed everything. So no-Yamamoto cannot create an artificial sun. The whole purpose of the mantle was to stop things from attacking him anyway.

On another note, every time a thread involving the entire Narutoverse is brought up you have to take Edo Tensei into account. With a year's prep they could have a huge army of undying ninja with unlimited chakra-what do we have to deal with that? Sorry if this was addressed earlier, I didn't read every post.
No, he couldn't have. First of all, he need Urahara to invent a way to get to Hueco Mundo so there's the first flaw in your scenario. Second of all if he killed all the Hollow at once it would create a tremendous imbalance of souls which is why Ishida said shinigami didn't like when Quincy interfered and slayed hollows because they don't purify the souls but eradicate them completely and throw off the balance. Third of all, Wonderweiss would've sealed the flames and then killed Yamamoto instead of just wounding him if Yamamoto used bankai instead of his shikai. Fourth, Yamamoto had no idea where the hell the Quincy lived or he obviously would've killed them. They ambushed Sasakibe out of nowhere and stole his bankai. Then invaded Seretei effortlessly and unannounced.

As for Edo Tensei, shinobi wouldn't use that technique because it's viewed as disgraceful. I'm assuming that we are keeping all the Narutoverse alive so Kabuto would have to forcibly take living sacrifices and go around battlefields gathering DNA from corpses of powerful ninja, the first thing shinobi wouldn't let him do, the second thing we wouldn't let him do.

And although I'm under the impression he can, it has nothing to do with him projecting the cloak, Earth's atmosphere can't take that kind of temperature present on it's surface, period. Whether it is being radiated over a large area or concentrated in a single point , the atmosphere would be destroyed. They even mentioned this in Fantastic 4 when they were testing the limits of Johnny Storms heat manipulation and his temperature starting going in intervals of thousands of degrees Celsius. Reed said he was approaching the temperature of the sun (more specifically the surface of the sun, not the core which is hundreds of times hotter like Yamamoto) and that life on Earth would be wiped out. I'm not using this as my source just pointing out a contemporary example where someone has mentioned this phenomenon.

So yeah if he's in a world where destroying it would have no major consequences Yamamoto can end it. We lose...BADLY.
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Old 09-30-2012, 02:31 AM   #92
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

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Meh. If Yamamoto could extend his sun heat to areas further than the cloak then there would be no Bleach-he could've easily gone to Hueco Mundo and wherever the Quincy are from, released the heat and killed everything. So no-Yamamoto cannot create an artificial sun. The whole purpose of the mantle was to stop things from attacking him anyway.

On another note, every time a thread involving the entire Narutoverse is brought up you have to take Edo Tensei into account. With a year's prep they could have a huge army of undying ninja with unlimited chakra-what do we have to deal with that? Sorry if this was addressed earlier, I didn't read every post.
Edo Tensei , a couple of 100(being optimistic)? zombie ninjas

vs

South, 10 trillion (if we belief the hype) undead souls and the entire verse itself consisting mostly of pseudo immortals.
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:57 PM   #93
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

@JLI2: I'm arguing that Yamamoto's heat is contained within the cloak-anything outside of that small area is unaffected-it couldn't work any other way, otherwise all of Soul Society would be gone, there is no getting around this point unless you argue that Soul Society's atmosphere can withstand this heat which is total BS. (Yes, I know it's made of Reishi, but it also has water vapor, oxygen, etc. which would be instantly gone in that heat instead of slowly disappearing). It's either that the heat is completely contained in the cloak or Soul Society's atmosphere is suddenly different even though all other examples have shown it functioning in the same manner as our atmosphere. The principle of Occam's Razor leans toward the heat being contained.

There are plenty of ways to get to Hueco Mundo and I'm sure Yamamoto would've been able to go there. I don't really remember how Wonderweiss's power works, but I thought it needed some kind of activation and I don't think it would save anyone if Yamamoto just showed up in some random spot and melted everything. Anyway, you're right about the balance thing and not knowing where the Quincy are, so I guess that point is mute.

About Edo Tensei- If they can't use Edo Tensei for ethical reasons I guess we can't use nukes... They also have a year of prep, so the Edos would already be made before the fight, there would be no point to making an Edo real world human anyway.

@BMC: The Narutoverse would be fighting with the Bleachverse so I'm not sure where you're going with this. Also, Yamamoto summoned 30 undead on panel max. Where are you getting 10 trillion? Unless you're implying he gets those souls after he's burned everyone on Earth which-1. There aren't 10 trillion people currently alive. 2. He can't do that. 3. There would be no point if he could.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:11 PM   #94
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

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Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post
@JLI2: I'm arguing that Yamamoto's heat is contained within the cloak-anything outside of that small area is unaffected-it couldn't work any other way, otherwise all of Soul Society would be gone, there is no getting around this point unless you argue that Soul Society's atmosphere can withstand this heat which is total BS. (Yes, I know it's made of Reishi, but it also has water vapor, oxygen, etc. which would be instantly gone in that heat instead of slowly disappearing). It's either that the heat is completely contained in the cloak or Soul Society's atmosphere is suddenly different even though all other examples have shown it functioning in the same manner as our atmosphere. The principle of Occam's Razor leans toward the heat being contained.

There are plenty of ways to get to Hueco Mundo and I'm sure Yamamoto would've been able to go there. I don't really remember how Wonderweiss's power works, but I thought it needed some kind of activation and I don't think it would save anyone if Yamamoto just showed up in some random spot and melted everything. Anyway, you're right about the balance thing and not knowing where the Quincy are, so I guess that point is mute.

About Edo Tensei- If they can't use Edo Tensei for ethical reasons I guess we can't use nukes... They also have a year of prep, so the Edos would already be made before the fight, there would be no point to making an Edo real world human anyway.

@BMC: The Narutoverse would be fighting with the Bleachverse so I'm not sure where you're going with this. Also, Yamamoto summoned 30 undead on panel max. Where are you getting 10 trillion? Unless you're implying he gets those souls after he's burned everyone on Earth which-1. There aren't 10 trillion people currently alive. 2. He can't do that. 3. There would be no point if he could.
Godaime, I already explained this before. Yes he's containing the heat, but how can you say everywhere else is unaffected. Toshiro told the Quincy that he could no longer use the bankai he stole because Yamamoto's bankai had gotten rid of all the water in the atmosphere. The more likely explanation is that while he is containing the heat there is only so much he can do to control that immense power and it still radiates outward, which is why he said if he didn't end the fight soon Seretei would be destroyed. All three of the original captains were worried that Yamamoto's power would destroy the place.

No there aren't plenty of ways lol. There's only one, through a Garganta. And no one knew how to do it. He couldn't have gone there if he wanted to. Even he stated that when the Menos shined their light on Aizen, Gin, and Tosen there was nothing any of the shinigami could do. If he knew how to get there why would he ask Urahara, a man he exiled from Seretei, to figure out a way to get fighters in there. (Not being condescending or anything I'm just pointing out that it's called a "moot point" I used to make that mistake all the time, I just learned the correction like a year or two ago).

The thing is, we've demonstrated our willingness to use nukes before. No shinobi has ever willingly allowed Edo Tensei. All of them were pissed that they were brought back. And since this is the entire HST none of them are dead in the first place meaning Kabuto would have to be getting corpses and living sacrifices during the fights.

As for Yamamoto summoning people he kills. Why not? He probably only summoned 30 because he's only killed 30. As we know he hardly ever gets his hands dirty. But yeah I don't know what would be wrong with him summoning millions of undead to kill everyone off. Unless you know of some limits to the technique that we are unaware of.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:53 AM   #95
Naruto the Sage of Life
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Default Re: Modern Technology vs Narutoverse, Bleachverse and Onepieceverse

For this war I am going to assume that all of the three anime/manga worlds are going to cooperate.

Furthermore, when it comes to Yammamato's bankai it has been shown to be able to cause all of the water to evaporate, and causes captains to feel dry. Again, considering a shinigami's natural durability over humans and further noting how Jua Back? or his clone stated that he would be dead if not for his quincy armor. This seems to show that if Yamamoto uses his bankai against us, I would imagine that everything or almost everything in the vicinity. Quincy users durability even wthout defense ( which would cause his death) is greater than anything a human hell I would argue that metal around Yammamato would melt. If anything,peole kilometers away would instantly die of heat stroke, air pressure would change causing horrible natural disasters. Again this is based off of the fact that his bankai can eradicate a weaker being as stated by Jua back with his presence.

Furthermore, Yammamoto is just 1 man, we have three universes with other people that are almost on his level. Whitbeard, Blackbeard, Madara, Aizen, Ichigo, Naruto and many, many more are what we are up against.

Another topic is the fact of Edo Tensei. While many ninja object, I imagine that is mainly because they are fighting against their home villages. Ninja have been shown to be pretty susceptible to self sacrifice, Itachi, Nagato, Narutoa are examples. I truly doubt, the Raikage would be against using Edo Tensei in this situation again most ninja fight against their own homes that is why they would be reluctant, considering how patriotic most ninja are I do in fact believe that they would commit suicide only to become an immortal Ninja. I mean I would, being immortal, nigh infinite chakra, regeneration? What's not to like. I believe that while Konoha might be against the idea, all the other kage would likely use such a resource. Furthermore, I could easily see Edo Tensei being reworded as allowing past comrades to aid their village once more, or even gifting eternal life to your dead friends/family.

Furthermore, any ninja who dies, I imagine it wouldnot be hard to convince his friends to revive him via edo tensei.

Lastly, Naruto has shadow clone hax while their range is unknown it may be possible to send a clone through a portal and have it fight while naruto stays safe.
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