Fire Lord Ozai vs. Edward Elric

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

Originally Posted by joon61

Ed should get a PS for this fight or he has no chance.
And he did transmute a machine gun.
In both animes.

Transmuting a machine gun or two isn't the limit in alchemy. Look at Basque Grand, who was able to create entire weapon arrays able to slaughter dozens of opponents at once and blow buildings apart.

Spoiler:

For verified evidence: Chapter 60, pg. 15. Basque creates enough firepower to clear off a street while toppling a building.

[Bradley]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

Mustang>>>>ozai. Name one destuctive feat Ozai has.

Burning down a whole forest.

Originally Posted by Vatanui AKA Pride

Mustang is considered so powerful within the Fullmetal Alchemist universe that Pride, the first Humonculus in history, has called him "the most troubling State Alchemist".

First off, it's not actual lightning.

And besides, summoning lightning takes actual time. Unlike an instantaneous transmutation.

How is it not actual lightning? And in Ozai's case creating lightning is just a couple quick gestures, not unlike Ed's alchemy.

Mustang > Ozai.

With a Philosopher's Stone, Mustang can casually demolish a town in less than a minute.

Before you claim this as an exaggeration, remember that Kimblee himself was able to destroy entire city blocks one at a time once he had a Philosopher's Stone in his possession. Look up the Ishvalan Civil War/Extermination.

Ok...this isn't a fight against Mustang and Ed doesn't have a Philosopher's Stone. Ed hasn't even really faced Mustang either.

Originally Posted by Vatanui AKA Pride

Transmuting a machine gun or two isn't the limit in alchemy. Look at Basque Grand, who was able to create entire weapon arrays able to slaughter dozens of opponents at once and blow buildings apart.

Spoiler:

For verified evidence: Chapter 60, pg. 15. Basque creates enough firepower to clear off a street while toppling a building.

Ok...that's Grande, not Edward...

[shinigan no sora]

Lightning bending is not real lightning because its just a transference of body bound chi to the outside of the benders body. It is slower than natural lightning but can be just as damaging

Basically fire/lightning bending is a form of energy conversion. Chi->electricity or electricity->chi and chi->fire

[Bradley]

Originally Posted by shinigan no sora

Lightning bending is not real lightning because its just a transference of body bound chi to the outside of the benders body. It is slower than natural lightning but can be just as damaging

Basically fire/lightning bending is a form of energy conversion. Chi->electricity or electricity->chi and chi->fire

Ok, sure. It's still lightning, just like fire from firebending is still fire.

[Ohako]

I believe in Vat's quote he was talking about an alchemist not Ozai's lightning.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Bradley

Burning down a whole forest.

Fire burning wood is a feat how. Again Edward summons a gatling gun the end.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

Fire burning wood is a feat how. Again Edward summons a gatling gun the end.

Edwards never transmuted a gatling gun only something that shot projectiles made out of rock. Which ozai w/sozais comet can easily counter/evade. Due to enhanced fire bending and flight.

Originally Posted by shinigan no sora

Lightning bending is not real lightning because its just a transference of body bound chi to the outside of the benders body. It is slower than natural lightning but can be just as damaging
Basically fire/lightning bending is a form of energy conversion. Chi->electricity or electricity->chi and chi->fire

Hence it is real lightning. Or are you going to say the fire firebenders produce is not actual despite it behaving like fire in every possible way. Or the water waterbenders bend is not real water.

Besides that not even the right explantion of lightning bending. It was something like separating the negative and positive ki and then release the energy that is produced when the 2 separated ki's clash back together. (it was something along those lines i look it up later).

Seriously where does this whole 'lightning bending is not actual lightning' come from there is nothing in the series that even implies that. Yet people seems to always mention it without any kind of support just to downplay the avatar series.

Originally Posted by Vatanui AKA Pride

Mustang is considered so powerful within the Fullmetal Alchemist universe that Pride, the first Humonculus in history, has called him "the most troubling State Alchemist".

First off, it's not actual lightning.

Really there is nothing in the whole avatar series or even its sequel that implies that. It has all characteristics of lightning. Is fire ball jutsu not actual fire?

And besides, summoning lightning takes actual time. Unlike an instantaneous transmutation.

Ed transmutations are far from instant (he is not father/hohenheim) he first needs to clap his hands and then touch the material he wants to transmute. In that time Ozai could easily fly off and fire blasts/lightning from the sky which he can easily charge up because ed cannot reach him in any way while he is up in the sky. It would be different with base ozai but in this fight he gets sozai comet which gives him Flight.

Mustang > Ozai.

How Mustang> Ozai.
As you can see in my sig i love roy mustang but he cant defeat someone how can conjure fire instantly unlike roy which has to snap his fingers also the scale and power of ozais attacks is larger then roys especially with sozais comet. Ozai also doesnt have a weakness to moisture and can produce lightning which should easily over come any fire roy can produce. And on top of that Ozai can even manipulate the shape and form of the flames.


With a Philosopher's Stone, Mustang can casually demolish a town in less than a minute.

That is with a stone. With Sozais comet Ozai can fly and his firebending and lightning is even enhanced beyond its already above avarage strenght.
W/out it he is like City Block level.

Before you claim this as an exaggeration, remember that Kimblee himself was able to destroy entire city blocks one at a time once he had a Philosopher's Stone in his possession. Look up the Ishvalan Civil War/Extermination.

Sozai comet was enough to enable the fire lord and like 10 of his men to burn the entire earth kingdom down which is like the size of a small continent. Anyway again with base ozai i could easily agree with you but this is an ozai powered w/Sozais comet.

[shinigan no sora]

No fire and lightning bending does. Not have all the same characteristics as its natural counter parts.

For example. Lightning is not a single bolt traveling in a linear direction it is two seperate bolts that travel between the ground and the cloud while lightning bending is a single directed bolt and is thus much slower

Of course waterbending is still water. It requires pre existing matter to work unlike with firebending in which you have to change one type of energy into another.

Oh and it was less than 24 hours ago that I watched the episode where iroh explains how firebending/lightning bending works and it still agrees with me

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by shinigan no sora

No fire and lightning bending does. Not have all the same characteristics as its natural counter parts.

For example. Lightning is not a single bolt traveling in a linear direction it is two seperate bolts that travel between the ground and the cloud while lightning bending is a single directed bolt and is thus much slower

It does travel between the source and the ground. When Azula Shot aang in his back with lightning it went through his back and left from the foot which is also what real lightning does.

Thats just them being lazy water is not blue yet they colored it blue.

Here two example of it actually being more then 1 bolt.





Oh and it was less than 24 hours ago that I watched the episode where iroh explains how firebending/lightning bending works and it still agrees with me

Well no lightning bending is different from fire bending in that it isnt energy conversion like fire bending is.

[shinigan no sora]

No that's what electricity does in general. LB is still electricity but it is not lightning and those images do not show two bolts meeting in the middle. It shows ONE bolt being sent. Oh so now lightning and chi are exactly the same thing? Ahaaahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahahahahaaahahahh hhahah

Actually its not lazy writing its common practice even in fine art to color clean water blue. And furthermore when you are out at sea or in the correct light clean water will appear blue because water particles reflect blue light. That's why the sky is blue

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

[B]Edwards never transmuted a gatling gun only something that shot projectiles made out of rock. Which ozai w/sozais comet can easily counter/evade. Due to enhanced fire bending and flight.

How about no. Edward had all knowledge of alchemy dumped into him. He can create more destructive weapons such as a gatling gun. But it would go against his character who does not kill. Which is why he never created such weapons. That aside Ozai wasn't even flying that fast and nothing in avatar is as fast as a machine gun. Then to follow up on something else Ed doesn't do but can is human transmutation.

Also abilities aside in combat Ed is way more intelligent and skilled. Half the time the only reason he struggled against anyone in fma is because of his ethics. He was fighting mass murderers.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by shinigan no sora

No that's what electricity does in general. LB is still electricity but it is not lightning and those images do not show two bolts meeting in the middle. It shows ONE bolt being sent. Oh so now lightning and chi are exactly the same thing? Ahaaahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahahahahaaahahahh hhahah

@ the bold
When did i ever say that?

Actually its not lazy writing its common practice even in fine art to color clean water blue. And furthermore when you are out at sea or in the correct light clean water will appear blue because water particles reflect blue light. That's why the sky is blue

The same easily goes for lightning.
The water outside of the ocean usually is also colored blue in most animations.

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

How about no. Edward had all knowledge of alchemy dumped into him. He can create more destructive weapons such as a gatling gun. But it would go against his character who does not kill. Which is why he never created such weapons. That aside Ozai wasn't even flying that fast and nothing in avatar is as fast as a machine gun. Then to follow up on something else Ed doesn't do but can is human transmutation.

Also abilities aside in combat Ed is way more intelligent and skilled. Half the time the only reason he struggled against anyone in fma is because of his ethics. He was fighting mass murderers.

Not even busques grand a specialist of weapon alchemy can make something like gatling guns. Besides he is in character according to BG defaults so even if he could make a gatling gun (which he has never shown) he would not create it.
While ed would be trying to make something he gets barraged by powerfull fire blasts which easily surpass mustangs and lightning from the sky.
Even Aang a guy who can make stuff without any kind of transmutation got overwhelmd by ozai.

[Bradley]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

Fire burning wood is a feat how. Again Edward summons a gatling gun the end.

Creating enough fire to burn down a forest all at once is a feat. And gatling gun isn't much use if Ozai is torching Ed from half a kilometer away.

Originally Posted by shinigan no sora

No fire and lightning bending does. Not have all the same characteristics as its natural counter parts.

For example. Lightning is not a single bolt traveling in a linear direction it is two seperate bolts that travel between the ground and the cloud while lightning bending is a single directed bolt and is thus much slower

Of course waterbending is still water. It requires pre existing matter to work unlike with firebending in which you have to change one type of energy into another.

Oh and it was less than 24 hours ago that I watched the episode where iroh explains how firebending/lightning bending works and it still agrees with me

Hm...this is a good point. Though, do you have any evidence that there is not a bolt that returns? Iroh's description sounds pretty close to the real thing -- separating positive energy and negative energy, etc.

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

How about no. Edward had all knowledge of alchemy dumped into him. He can create more destructive weapons such as a gatling gun. But it would go against his character who does not kill. Which is why he never created such weapons. That aside Ozai wasn't even flying that fast and nothing in avatar is as fast as a machine gun. Then to follow up on something else Ed doesn't do but can is human transmutation.

Also abilities aside in combat Ed is way more intelligent and skilled. Half the time the only reason he struggled against anyone in fma is because of his ethics. He was fighting mass murderers.

Ed has had all knowledge of alchemy dumped into him, sure. Not that he can remember much of that.

[JLI2infinity]

Umm is everyone forgetting how Ozai was creating flames so large and destructive that Aang couldn't block them when he was in an arena full of gigantic rock pillars. Ozai murders Ed. Ozai's lightning goes right through Ed's arm and into his chest. Aang was quite the speedster in that show. I forgot all the feats but I remember going through and scaling it. I remember he ranged from physically outrunning animals and catching arrows, to moving "as fast as the wind" and running straight past two guards so quickly they didn't even see what was going on. Sozin with his flames working as boosters was easily able to keep up with Aang. Ed has no speed feats to put him on par with that. Sozin can also make flame shields.

Did someone ask what can the flames do? Don't you remember the day of Sozin's comet when average firebenders were making streams so large and strong that they were roasting everything in their path. The size of the streams were comparable to the humongous blimps they flew on that required dozens of men to fly. Go back and watch the final episodes on the day of the Fire Nation's invasion.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Not even busques grand a specialist of weapon alchemy can make something like gatling guns. Besides he is in character according to BG defaults so even if he could make a gatling gun (which he has never shown) he would not create it.
While ed would be trying to make something he gets barraged by powerfull fire blasts which easily surpass mustangs and lightning from the sky.
Even Aang a guy who can make stuff without any kind of transmutation got overwhelmd by ozai.

Well in character he summoned the gate of truth soul rape the end.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

Well in character he summoned the gate of truth soul rape the end.

Edward cant summon the gate of truth he never even did that. The only way for humans to even reach the gate of truth is performing human transmutation at which point only the one who performed it goes to the gate of truth. And we both know that ozai cannot perform human transmutation.

[Bradley]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

Well in character he summoned the gate of truth soul rape the end.

Um...what? How could Ed even use the gate of truth for "soul rape"? He's never done such a thing.

[Cult of Personality]

When someone sees the Gate, Truth takes from them what they value most in exchange for the knowledge. There's nothing Ozai values more than himself.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Originally Posted by Cult of Personality

When someone sees the Gate, Truth takes from them what they value most in exchange for the knowledge. There's nothing Ozai values more than himself.

that is awesome so essentially..Eddie can shut this one down if he can do that right quick

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by Cult of Personality

When someone sees the Gate, Truth takes from them what they value most in exchange for the knowledge. There's nothing Ozai values more than himself.

Originally Posted by The Immortal Watch Dog

that is awesome so essentially..Eddie can shut this one down if he can do that right quick

Yeah the problem is he cant summon the gate to inflict harm on others -.-