Kabuto vs Pain

[BMC1994]

Pull His Soul Out
Crush under the weight of a new moon'
Beat him with a pulp with asuras and fire rockets.
Push out of the battle field.
Capture him with hell king and make him lie
Stomping on kabuto with a multiple of animals summons 1 of which doesnt die when you kill it(the splitting dog)
NOM NOM all his attacks.

Kabuto is busy with the summons gets bansho tenin'ed and soul pulled or any of the above.

[Ultimate combatant]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Pull His Soul Out
Crush under the weight of a new moon'
Beat him with a pulp with asuras and fire rockets.
Push out of the battle field.
Capture him with hell king and make him lie
Stomping on kabuto with a multiple of animals summons 1 of which doesnt die when you kill it(the splitting dog)
NOM NOM all his attacks.

Kabuto is busy with the summons gets bansho tenin'ed and soul pulled or any of the above.

He has to get a solid grip to take his soul out of him, that is not possible because Kabuto can liquify himself.
Chibaku Tensei requires prep and most probably sacrifice of other 5 paths, just like Chou Shinra Tensei.
Physical attacks mostly don't work on Kabuto.
Battle field is not really limited to the point where you can just make ring out (unlike Tenkaichi Budokai, for example).
Capturing him is not possible either and how would he make him lie?
Stomping would probably not do much against someone who can liquify. Also, he has Manda 2. Island sized Boss Summon. Also, killing Chikushodo will reverse summon Boss summons away.
Pain can't absorb all his attacks!!!

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Pull His Soul Out
Crush under the weight of a new moon'
Beat him with a pulp with asuras and fire rockets.
Push out of the battle field.
Capture him with hell king and make him lie
Stomping on kabuto with a multiple of animals summons 1 of which doesnt die when you kill it(the splitting dog)
NOM NOM all his attacks.

Kabuto is busy with the summons gets bansho tenin'ed and soul pulled or any of the above.

CT takes prep
Asura's too slow, Kabuto has Doton techs. for defense
And Kabuto comes back
Yea Naraka is obviously gifted enough in taijutsu to do that
Manda 2 w/ giant snake summons until Kabuto finds and kills Animal Path
A bunch of Kabuto's attacks are physical so Preta can't eat them all

Just answered the summons problem and BT to soul pull has already been countered. Human Path goes to touch Kabuto's stomach to grab his soul, Kabuto sheds and cuts his head off, Deva is still in his five second cool down time, Kabuto's way too fast to be evaded at that range.

[321zigzag3]

I didn't realize that forming a Gravitational Dark Ball = prep.
Not to further mention the above poster saying Asura is slow which is clearly false and Kabuto using Doton jutsu which is a no.

Kabuto only has one and he only used back in the PReskip days. He isn't going to use it against higher level opponents when he has better skills to utilize.

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

I didn't realize that forming a Gravitational Dark Ball = prep.
Not to further mention the above poster saying Asura is slow which is clearly false and Kabuto using Doton jutsu which is a no.

Kabuto only has one and he only used back in the PReskip days. He isn't going to use it against higher level opponents when he has better skills to utilize.

Deva had to run away from Naruto and Nagato required immense focus to use it, that's called prep. I didn't say Asura was slow, just that he's too slow for Kabuto who's faster than Itachi and Sasuke.

If you want to talk about false information, in case you didn't pay attention to the fight Kabuto absorbed Jidanbo's doton abilities, so wrong again. That's three strikes, you're out. Not to mention the doton he used during PTS days was hiding in the ground like a mole which is the same technique Kakashi used in his fight against Deva.

[Ultimate combatant]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

I didn't realize that forming a Gravitational Dark Ball = prep.
Not to further mention the above poster saying Asura is slow which is clearly false and Kabuto using Doton jutsu which is a no.

Kabuto only has one and he only used back in the PReskip days. He isn't going to use it against higher level opponents when he has better skills to utilize.

Yes, Chibaku Tensei does require prep. In his fight with Naruto, Pain had to flee from battle to perform Chibaku Tensei. Also, given the strength and nature of chibaku Tensei, I believe Pain has to sacrifice other 5 Paths just like when Tendo did Chou Shinra Tensei!!!

About Earth techniques, Kabuto had one, plus with Orochimaru's and Jirobo's abilities, he probably can do some. But I won't say whether he can or not. I am just trying to provide reasons why it could be possible!!!

[321zigzag3]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

Deva had to run away from Naruto and Nagato required immense focus to use it, that's called prep.

So Nagato is suddenly too far away in this fight?
No one has ever said such conditions.

I didn't say Asura was slow, just that he's too slow for Kabuto who's faster than Itachi and Sasuke.

ASura outsped Kakashi easily. I can hardly see Asura being too slow.
Also perhaps mayhaps the way you worded it I misread then.

If you want to talk about false information, in case you didn't pay attention to the fight Kabuto absorbed Jidanbo's doton abilities, so wrong again. That's three strikes, you're out.

Whoa now, whats with the sudden statement as that?
Everyone can make mistakes. Did I berate you? No.

I was pointing out on your statements on Asura and CT. Unless you thought I was insulting you which I wasn't although i apologize still for the misunderstanding. I was referring to your statements.

Well thats my bad on that on the Doton on Jirobo;s. I forgot about it for some reason.

Not to mention the doton he used during PTS days was hiding in the ground like a mole which is the same technique Kakashi used in his fight against Deva.

He never used thaht jutsu in the Post Skip. He could but he has like I said better usage for other techniques.

Originally Posted by Ultimate combatant

Yes, Chibaku Tensei does require prep. In his fight with Naruto, Pain had to flee from battle to perform Chibaku Tensei. Also, given the strength and nature of chibaku Tensei, I believe Pain has to sacrifice other 5 Paths just like when Tendo did Chou Shinra Tensei!!!

In this fight NAgato is likely going to be close by just not able to be interfered.

That is why everyone treats Nagato's placement for Pain.

Hence why no prep.

THe only prep part was him fleeing because he was far away.



Are we now suddenly evaluating distance for nagato being too far away as well?

No one has ever done this for Pain matchups this is why no one really says CT = prep.
Because the only real prep part was the fleeing element.

[Ultimate combatant]

If we assume Chibaku Tensei doesn't require prep (I'm not sure, yet, after all, he was hiding from Naruto, which could mean not just getting closer to but stalling for making Chibaku Tensei.), do we at least assume that he has to sacrifice other 5 Paths? If for Chou Shinra Tensei he had to, I think he'd need for Chibaku Tensei, too!!!

[321zigzag3]

THe only reason why Deva PAth fled was because his chakra link was too far away Nagato.

Hence why he said, "Deva PAth is close enough now"

In standard Pain fights, I have never seen invoke Nagato being too far away.
Nagato is close enough but not able to be interfered unless conditions says so.


As for the sacrifice for other paths. Technically we don't know. Maybe.
I mean Chou Shinra Tensei didn't require close enough distance but considering CHibaku Tensei is a the ultimate jutsu for Nagato it probably might.

But anyway Pain never uses it or will use it until all his paths are dead. But if he has to sacrifice as a necessity who knows he might in order to win.

But again I didn;t realize both of you were invoking the distance clause.

I mean let's face it. Chibaku Tensei is a single hand seal then in few seconds a ball is launched. Doesn't that sound like a regular execution of a jutsu.

Look at Nagato. See how fast he executed it (yes I know RM Naruto said NAgato's execution is faster and stronger being the original body)

[JLI2infinity]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

So Nagato is suddenly too far away in this fight?
No one has ever said such conditions.

ASura outsped Kakashi easily. I can hardly see Asura being too slow.
Also perhaps mayhaps the way you worded it I misread then.

Whoa now, whats with the sudden statement as that?
Everyone can make mistakes. Did I berate you? No.

I was pointing out on your statements on Asura and CT. Unless you thought I was insulting you which I wasn't although i apologize still for the misunderstanding. I was referring to your statements.

Well thats my bad on that on the Doton on Jirobo;s. I forgot about it for some reason.

He never used thaht jutsu in the Post Skip. He could but he has like I said better usage for other techniques.

In this fight NAgato is likely going to be close by just not able to be interfered.

That is why everyone treats Nagato's placement for Pain.

Hence why no prep.

THe only prep part was him fleeing because he was far away.

Are we now suddenly evaluating distance for nagato being too far away as well?

No one has ever done this for Pain matchups this is why no one really says CT = prep.
Because the only real prep part was the fleeing element.

I meant the three strikes thing more as a joke man, sorry if it was in bad taste now that I reread my comment it seemed a little aggressive.

Asura got stopped in his tracks by SM Naruto. Asura didn't outspeed Kakashi he snuck up and stopped him from killing Deva Path. Doesn't seem like that impressive of a feat considering the paths have linked vision and Kakashi wasn't focused on him. Asura was completely aware of Naruto's presence and still got killed.

Since Nagato's distance wasn't specified in the OP both of our assumptions are equally valid; however, the only time we've seen the technique used in the manga was when Nagato was too far for Deva to use it immediately. On top of that it still required immense focus, Nagato told Konan to be quiet because he needed to concentrate to use the technique. That doesn't seem like something that can be done on the fly against an opponent like Kabuto, especially with my main strategy which I've reiterated throughout this whole thread of Kabuto using Demonic Flute.

I don't even need to counter the Bansho Tenin point by mentioning how Kabuto would kill Pain close up, I have a different solution. Kabuto just has to use Kidomaru's web to stick himself to the floor. Or he can use Muka Tensei and elemental techs. to change the battlefield to his advantage creating canyons and platforms to hide behind and attack stealthily.

[321zigzag3]

Originally Posted by JLI2infinity

I meant the three strikes thing more as a joke man, sorry if it was in bad taste now that I reread my comment it seemed a little aggressive.

Here here.

Asura got stopped in his tracks by SM Naruto. Asura didn't outspeed Kakashi he snuck up and stopped him from killing Deva Path. Doesn't seem like that impressive of a feat considering the paths have linked vision and Kakashi wasn't focused on him. Asura was completely aware of Naruto's presence and still got killed.

Granted we dont know when ASura moved. But he technically show immense speed there.

Linked vision yes but still the action must be able to executable.

If Human Path for example didn't have the reflexes to block SM Jiraiya's punch. He would still gotten hit more likely.

Since Nagato's distance wasn't specified in the OP both of our assumptions are equally valid; however, the only time we've seen the technique used in the manga was when Nagato was too far for Deva to use it immediately. On top of that it still required immense focus, Nagato told Konan to be quiet because he needed to concentrate to use the technique. That doesn't seem like something that can be done on the fly against an opponent like Kabuto, especially with my main strategy which I've reiterated throughout this whole thread of Kabuto using Demonic Flute.

Due to the battle matchups trying to set up the best conditions NAgato was often considered near enough but not there at the same time unless conditions specify.

Immense focus? Sounds like more when Nagato was channeling chakra through Deva Path. When he was by himself he had no problem.

I don't even need to counter the Bansho Tenin point by mentioning how Kabuto would kill Pain close up, I have a different solution. Kabuto just has to use Kidomaru's web to stick himself to the floor. Or he can use Muka Tensei and elemental techs. to change the battlefield to his advantage creating canyons and platforms to hide behind and attack stealthily.

I had been informing BMC that bansho tennin is a suicidal to do especially if Deva Path is alone.

The only real problem with Kabuto is his lack of actual killing offensive power such as in destructive raw power.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

I had been informing BMC that bansho tennin is a suicidal to do especially if Deva Path is alone.

The only real problem with Kabuto is his lack of actual killing offensive power such as in destructive raw power.

It isnt suicidal at all besides the fact that pain can actually afford the risk because he can resurrect himself and other paths.

Let take a few different situations.

1. Kabuto Sheds before the human path arrives to pull his soul out(except that he could just have the human path already standing to him but lets say he doesnt).

Kabuto cannot kill all of the paths in that 5 second time frame(pain is more then 1 body and they dont just all stand in one place like practice dummies). Also the paths will be revived by naraka path. Plus kabuto still has if he kill deva AND human (and thats probably not happening) to deal with 3 other paths suited for battle and one which can support them. 1 of which can summon a dozen of summons they may not be able to hurt kabuto but they can probably make kabuto stop his attack on the paths and in a worst case scenario serve as a shield. By this time the 5 second frame will be over and naraka ressurrects the fallen paths.

2. Kabuto sheds when the human has arrived to pull his soul out.(he isnt pulling his soul out yet) Its the same as above.

3. Kabuto sheds when he gets his soul pulled out. That is not possible orochimaru the inventor of the technique was not able to shed when he got his soul pulled out by hiruzen. If you could casually use all your jutsu while getting your soul pulled out orochimaru would have done it.

Thus bansho tenin isnt suicidal at all.

[321zigzag3]

It can be suicidal for Pain depending on the actions performed.

Also Kabuto is great both in ranged and close combat in technique variety.

It is just location affects him more than others. He fights best in an enclosed location after all.

None of Pain's summons have the strength to beat Manda 2.

[BMC1994]

I never got the fuss about manda 2(besides manda can have its soul pulled out to)

[Uchiha Sora]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Itachi and Saskue were holding back. they could have EASILY killed him if they chose to. ALMIGHTY PUSH would send the webs and bones right back where they came

Kinda BS cuz Kabs pretty much killed Sasuke off the bat with white rage. Itachi saves him multiple times, Itachi got wrecked a few times iirc

[TobiramaSenju307]

Kinda BS cuz Kabs pretty much killed Sasuke off the bat with white rage. Itachi saves him multiple times, Itachi got wrecked a few times iirc

the score of who saved who is 2 vs 3, in favour of sasuke. itachi never hagd anything to save from muki tensei as kabuto did not intend to hurt sasuke.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by Uchiha Sora

Kinda BS cuz Kabs pretty much killed Sasuke off the bat with white rage. Itachi saves him multiple times, Itachi got wrecked a few times iirc

If they wanted him dead they would have ammy'd him before he even went into sage mode.

[321zigzag3]

Neither were trying to kill each other in fact this is important to recall.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

If they wanted him dead they would have ammy'd him before he even went into sage mode.

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

Neither were trying to kill each other in fact this is important to recall.

Thats where the 'if' comes in.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Looks as if this debate is going extremely downhill because it is now dependent on ifs and buts. Closed.