Spoiler The Final Tobi is Obito Explanation-REALLY NO MORE

[zerosameri]

Your reasons still suck and are stale bread bro.
But at this point, kishi is an ass.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by igw

im not supporting or rejecting this obitobi theory. but i just wanted to say its interesting to see this reasoning about the promise with rin back in nov 2011, then in ch597, tobi says "i want to build a world where heroes dont have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves.

likei said, im not siding with anything, i just thought it was extremely interesting.

I can deal with Obito mistakes if the backstory is good and dramatic. But not too much. I better not hear that it's him watching Kakashi in front of Rin's grave so now he's heart broken that the girl he loved, who he couldn't face cuz he was now scarred for life, died. And now he's heart broken.

[Bratcipheo]

That all said, I do think we should tip our hats to Bratchipheo
for sticking to his theory despite the criticisms from
myself and others--especially in the event he is right.

Thanks, bro.

By the way, I don't think it comes from fan fiction. Its Kishi's style; remember how he did the same thing with Gaara and the masked guy when he was a kid? Turned out it was his uncle.

Your reasons still suck and are stale bread, bro.
But at this point, Kishi is an ass.

You know what?
Years ago, you guys laughed at me and told me that Tobi was Madara. Turns out I was right, and you were wrong.
You guys still flamed me, saying that the theory couldn't be right; but it turns out that I was right anyways.

I never changed my theory; I only had one. Through several years, one theory.
How many did you guys have? How often did you change your opinion? You were uncertain, not sure what you really believed, so your opinions changed as if it were some kind of fashion.

You didn't really listen to me; most just "lol'd" and gave me the usual low level objections to the theory. You created lame arguments, and my thread even got deleted at some point.

My point is:

I was right in everything.

No amount of crying, cursing, blaming Kishi, blaming luck, or blaming your parents will change that.
Reality hits you in the face, and it hits hard. You guys said I was an evil, arrogant bastard that would end up being wrong.

Well maybe I am an arrogant bastard.
But I am an arrogant bastard that was right, in everything.
My glory is undeniable. I am victorious.

But you can go on, act tough if you want, act as if you don't care, keep your status high in the forum.
But in the end, you still know that I am the boss that owned you hard.

[Shikamaru Nara]

the fact of the matter is you really weren't right yet because the chapter isn't out.

[mrsticky005]

Kishi's style IS fan fiction. :P

[igw]

hm. it might very well be obito. not sayin tobi is, im jus sayin that just because all these hints that tobi is throwing out is way too obvious & kishi just wants us to think hes obito, he might very well be. good example: naruto's parentage. i mean.. come on. yondaime has yellow hair, naruto has yellow hair, but there were a lot of people who thought that was too much a giveaway for naruto to be his son.

[Bratcipheo]

Originally Posted by igw

hm. it might very well be obito. not sayin tobi is, im jus sayin that just because all these hints that tobi is throwing out is way too obvious & kishi just wants us to think hes obito, he might very well be. good example: naruto's parentage. i mean.. come on. yondaime has yellow hair, naruto has yellow hair, but there were a lot of people who thought that was too much a giveaway for naruto to be his son.

Btw, this doesn't exist. An author does never ever throw something too obvious out to confuse us. NEVER! It only exists in the mind of us forumers. It is considered very bad story telling to try to fool the readers like that. So it will never happen, and you cannot give me an example of any book or story where this has ever happened.

Quote:
Your reasons still suck and are stale bread bro.
But at this point, kishi is an ass.
[stuff]

Is THIS how you do things now Zerosamari!? You provoke me in my thread and then DELETE my response to you? In what world do you think that censorship is justified for personal gain?
And no, I used no curse word or any of the sorts, your actions are unjustified.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

Btw, this doesn't exist. An author does never ever throw something too obvious out to confuse us. NEVER! It only exists in the mind of us forumers. It is considered very bad story telling to try to fool the readers like that. So it will never happen, and you cannot give me an example of any book or story where this has ever happened.


Is THIS how you do things now Zerosamari!? You provoke me in my thread and then DELETE my response to you? In what world do you think that censorship is justified for personal gain?
And no, I used no curse word or any of the sorts, your actions are unjustified.

I agree that Zero shouldn't have deleted your post.
But well, I don't think you had much to say there anyways.

BTW I don't think your thread was deleted. It just got merged
into the Tobi=Obito thread I'm pretty sure. It was moved there
like other Obito threads because everyone was making a Tobi thread.

[Kreegah!!!]

Reverted. Zero, I know you were just having fun, but that was inappropriate. Since most forum-based punishments wouldn't really scare you into behaving, I have sent an email to Basko. You will not be receiving the famed Captain's catch all this year. Also, I'm telling your father. I approve of his medieval strictures.

[paradigm1977]

So if Obito's mind and single eye are transferred into a zetsu body... who wins?

I lean toward zetsu theorists. but some credit should also go to Obito theorists.

Right now, I'm preparing for an Obito reveal. Braticipeo is right about authors not throwing out obvious clues with the idea that his audience will think it's too obvious and write it off.. The reason is many people will accept the information, not be surprised, and say the mystery sucked.

Considering a 5 chapter arc out of 598 chapters... There is nothing obvious about Obito. If you don't look up kannabi bridge or go on forums, you don't even make the connection to that arc. So you don't reread the arc and see the quote Tobi just gave. You are just clueless and wonder who this person from Kakashi's past is.

but we are not looking for clues and trying to memorize clues them, by ourselves, while watching a two hour movie. We are rereading, discussing facts and possibilities with ...20+ regular posters compiling information and going back over things. We break down characters, timelines, and jutsu.

I still don't think it works logically for character motivation for Obito or who might have helped him, or improving his skills so fast, but if the back story is good, most of these will be fixed.

[Bratcipheo]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

So if Obito's mind and single eye are transferred into a zetsu body... who wins?

I lean toward zetsu theorists. but some credit should also go to Obito theorists.

Right now, I'm preparing for an Obito reveal. Braticipeo is right about authors not throwing out obvious clues with the idea that his audience will think it's too obvious and write it off.. The reason is many people will accept the information, not be surprised, and say the mystery sucked.

Considering a 5 chapter arc out of 598 chapters... There is nothing obvious about Obito. If you don't look up kannabi bridge or go on forums, you don't even make the connection to that arc. So you don't reread the arc and see the quote Tobi just gave. You are just clueless and wonder who this person from Kakashi's past is.

but we are not looking for clues and trying to memorize clues them, by ourselves, while watching a two hour movie. We are rereading, discussing facts and possibilities with ...20+ regular posters compiling information and going back over things. We break down characters, timelines, and jutsu.

I still don't think it works logically for character motivation for Obito or who might have helped him, or improving his skills so fast, but if the back story is good, most of these will be fixed.

Who won then?Well i know i still won^^, look at what i once wrote:

We dont need to know what exactly Tobi is, its more about: *Is anything about him Obito?*Thats what this argument really is about.

and

There are 3 levels of this theory:
1. Tobi is not madara
2. Tobi is linked to Obito (spell, eye, body, anything)
3. Tobi is Obito.

Level 1 just got confirmed, 2 is definitively gonna come, doubters be careful, you dont wanna oppose me and be wrong, but today we'll deal with number 1.

Why did I write this?What was the point of my theory? Why did i know the theory was true and would happen?

Because of the emotional drama it would create when Kakashi gets confronted by it.

This was my number 1 motivater. I knew he would be confronted by it.
Also, I am absolutely certain that he is partly Setzu, I've continued to say that he got rescued by Zetsu and partly has a Zetsu body that heals him.
Whether it is 99% Zetsu or 20% I dont know. I dont care. As long as the emotional thing between kakashi and a betraying Obito happens, my theory would be true.
Now i have said this, before the reveal happens and people are gonna say"HEEY; he has a body from Zetsu! SO we were right!!" Ofcause he has it, the goo says it all.

It will get more interesting with their backstories though. I suspect Zetsu to be a creation from Madara when he stole the Senju cells from the first hokage. He could possibly even be someone we've heard about.
Well, Zetsu then told Obito about the moon eye plan. Then Obito infiltrated Akatsuki and became the leader by saying he's Madara.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

We dont need to know what exactly Tobi is, its more about: *Is anything about him Obito?*Thats what this argument really is about. and
Quote:


There are 3 levels of this theory:
1. Tobi is not madara
2. Tobi is linked to Obito (spell, eye, body, anything)
3. Tobi is Obito.

Level 1 just got confirmed, 2 is definitively gonna come, doubters be careful, you dont wanna oppose me and be wrong, but today we'll deal with number 1.

That's fine.

You choose that your theory of Tobi is Obito is not that specific. It's that Tobi has Obito's personality. You are just not commiting on the other half of a theory, his body. Which would be whether it's Obito's main body with Zetsu parts, like any other non clone theory, or if Tobi is really a total Zetsu clone with Obito's personality overwriting the original Zetsu personality. Which is mainly a Zetsu theory. Zetsu with Madara personality, is a Zetsu clone theory, not a Madara theory. You have never pushed your theory as a zetsu theory, but as an Obito theory. Also, a Zetsu clone might have different bodily ability than Obito and might be able to use chakra control better. If true, that might help determine how Obito/Zetsu improved so dramatically in a short period. It is integral to arguments that Tobi could not be Obito.

I would say they are different in "who" Tobi is. Just as long as you realize that if you don't claim parts or full clone, Your theory will be half right, for personality, but not fully, since you make no claim on how Tobi even physically exists. Although your opening statement said not a clone. That will trump personality if Tobi is a full clone. In my mind and others on here. So prepare for some arguing (not specific to me) on if you were "right."

you say your theory has never changed from day one.
To open the thread with your official theory, emotion section, this is your standpoint.

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

So it was impossible for Madara to be Tobi.Zetsu clone is also not possible as we learned about that ability afterwards aswell.Tobi being Tobi not either.

Only by putting the character and everything in beforehand, makes the story seem smart.
Obito was put in with his own back story/backflash right before Tobi got introduced.

And by "know", i mean know really well, we have to know more about them than some random facts, we have to know their face and their story firsthand.

This standpoint of we didn't know the ability means Tobi is mostly Obito in body. And that makes sense with timeline and ability standpoints/debates within this thread.

You don't have to go for full glory, it's your theory. As it stands, I'll give you full credit for Obito personality in his own body, up to half Obito and half Zetsu. If all zetsu, I'll give half credit for the personality being right, and your current, not opening standpoint. Not that you need to meet my standards. I'm just pointing out you are taking credit for two theories as one right now. Or you are only presenting a partial theory, even though I know you feel the body doesn't matter. So you are not purely an Obito theorist. You are theorizing Obito or Zetsu clone with Obito's mind.

Your "level 3" seems to go against the first part of that first quote, "Anything about him." You won't get level 3, if Obito is a zetsu clone.

[Bratcipheo]

Originally Posted by paradigm1977

That's fine.

You choose that your theory of Tobi is Obito is not that specific. It's that Tobi has Obito's personality. You are just not commiting on the other half of a theory, his body. Which would be whether it's Obito's main body with Zetsu parts, like any other non clone theory, or if Tobi is really a total Zetsu clone with Obito's personality overwriting the original Zetsu personality. Which is mainly a Zetsu theory. Zetsu with Madara personality, is a Zetsu clone theory, not a Madara theory. You have never pushed your theory as a zetsu theory, but as an Obito theory. Also, a Zetsu clone might have different bodily ability than Obito and might be able to use chakra control better. If true, that might help determine how Obito/Zetsu improved so dramatically in a short period. It is integral to arguments that Tobi could not be Obito.

I would say they are different in "who" Tobi is. Just as long as you realize that if you don't claim parts or full clone, Your theory will be half right, for personality, but not fully, since you make no claim on how Tobi even physically exists. Although your opening statement said not a clone. That will trump personality if Tobi is a full clone. In my mind and others on here. So prepare for some arguing (not specific to me) on if you were "right."

you say your theory has never changed from day one.
To open the thread with your official theory, emotion section, this is your standpoint.



This standpoint of we didn't know the ability means Tobi is mostly Obito in body. And that makes sense with timeline and ability standpoints/debates within this thread.

You don't have to go for full glory, it's your theory. As it stands, I'll give you full credit for Obito personality in his own body, up to half Obito and half Zetsu. If all zetsu, I'll give half credit for the personality being right, and your current, not opening standpoint. Not that you need to meet my standards. I'm just pointing out you are taking credit for two theories as one right now. Or you are only presenting a partial theory, even though I know you feel the body doesn't matter. So you are not purely an Obito theorist. You are theorizing Obito or Zetsu clone with Obito's mind.

Your "level 3" seems to go against the first part of that first quote, "Anything about him." You won't get level 3, if Obito is a zetsu clone.

You are right on this. If Tobi is a full Zetsu clone, but just with Obito's personality, some credit goes to Zetsu theories.
I never really stated clone, but only partly sharing some of his body, dna, for healing, i never stated clone.
I'll share the glory if this happens. But 50/50?This is not how this works. Some one theory could state that it is a man, bam, 50/50?No, we saw his goo, we saw Zetsu. But finding out whose personality he has is a lot harder.


Anyway, should it be that he isn't a clone, but only has his DNA mixed with his original body to stabilize, repair and no heal and enhance it. Then i take full glory, since this is what i said.

I am happy that i saw all this coming, and wrote it all down as proof, wouldn't want my victory spoiled would i?
We will see next week, and with the winscore i've had til now, you can figure out whos gonna be right.

[paradigm1977]

Originally Posted by Bratcipheo

You are right on this. If Tobi is a full Zetsu clone, but just with Obito's personality, some credit goes to Zetsu theories.
I never really stated clone, but only partly sharing some of his body, dna, for healing, i never stated clone.
I'll share the glory if this happens. But 50/50?This is not how this works. Some one theory could state that it is a man, bam, 50/50?No, we saw his goo, we saw Zetsu. But finding out whose personality he has is a lot harder.

I wasn't being exact with 50/50, but it's not just the level of difficulty of calling mind vs body, but based on the theories out there. The clone theory is in the minority compared to any of the uchiha theories. So you can argue that the full zetsu or genetic clone theories are harder to call since they are each the riskier call. I would expect that outside those two, every other theory includes partial Zetsu, so that body aspect is a freebie for calling the personality. So most likely, if he's not full clone of one type or another, anyone who called the character correctly for personality will be right.

Also, if he's full clone, he knows it. Knowing that you are not the real version of a person also would affect your personality and amount of respect for human life. So I would argue that the full clone mindset changes your personality no matter who it's based off.

I have to say it's strange that Tobi seemed to almost convince himself that he's Madara with certain statements he's made in situations where he had nothing to gain. Now it seems like he's doing the same thing with the idea he's Obito.

[Bratcipheo]

I'd just like to add something.

Now, my point up till now has been to prove to you that when Tobi takes off his mask, it will be Obito we will see. And we'll get a little drama with Kakashi.
That's all good and fine.

Lets spice it up a little:

But there is still a problem, how did Obito manage to get so strong in just 1-2 years?I haven't cared much about it, since it wasn't my focus, I knew Kishimoto would come up with something that would make sense.
Well we know that he got some goo from Zetsu. This could in a way make him stronger/heal him. This is old news though.
Now, is it possible that there's actually some Madara in him too? I know its preposterous coming from me.Me of all people right? But here's the logic:

Madara fought the 1 hokage and took some of his strength, probably his Senju cells which he now has infused himself with. There is a good chance that he created Zetsu. Zetsu is made of Senju cells and?And what? Uchiha stuff too from Madara? Was there given power from Madara, through Zetsu, to Obito? Knowledge? Techniques? Memories? Personality?Or was Senju cells enough for a strength boost?
It would explain a few things like why he pretended to be madara, why he said "..my power, uchiha madaras power" etc. Whether its knowledge, jutsu or DNA it doesnt matter.
As long as it doesn't negate the fact that a part of Tobi is a conscious feeling Obito, my theory is okay with it.
Tobi is Obito, but is there more?Maybe, maybe not.