Hashirama Senju vs Naruto

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by Zack Fair

Madara curb-stomped the kages and stated something about how Hashirama was the only one who could best him.

^ That's a fact, came from the manga. I'm not assuming stuff like with the cloak blocking pollen, who knows how the manga writer would PnJ this fight.

So, based on the stomping Madara did, I am going to say Hashirama.

edit: Plus doesn't he have better regen skills then Tsunade?

The Madara "curb-stomping" the Kages is Edo Madara with EMS, Rinnegan, Mokuton, a regenerating body, and an unlimited chakra pool. The Madara who fought Hashirama only had EMS and that Madara would've been taken down in one chapter by Gaara and Naruto's clone (Chapter 560). Onoki (with ease) and arguably Gaara could solo EMS Madara.

I don't see how it's an (inaccurate) assumption to say that the cloak will block the pollen-it's been shown to block physical objects/act as a barrier. Prove that the pollen can get through the cloak.

Hashirama did not have better regen skills than Tsunade, Madara only said that his healing tech was better because he could use it without seals (before he knew Tsunade could use Byakugo).

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by MinatoXNaruto

Everyone is giving Naruto all this hype but what has he done against Tobi(not the jinchuuriki). Nothing really. He can't even blitz Tobi. If Naruto can beat Hashirama, Tobi should be done right now.

What has he done...are you serious? He took on 6 Bijuu largely alone and the fight with Tobi is just beginning. Fighting Tobi is way different than fighting other shinobi-it's almost impossible to hit him due to his S/T jutsu, Hashirama doesn't have that advantage. Tobi can also react fairly well against Minato-he's super fast so he's not going to get blitzed, also Naruto hasn't fought against him in his newest mode yet-we'll have a better grasp on the situation on Weds. I find it exceedingly laughable that you say Naruto is the one getting hype when the entire argument for Hashirama rests on hype. What Naruto did against the Bijuu isn't hype-that's on panel feats.

Sorry for double posting

[PrinceofPeace]

Naruto had back-up during the Tobi fight
The cloak has not blocked from breathing in toxins. So are you saying Posion Smoke would not even work?

[TobiramaSenju307]

Everyone is giving Naruto all this hype but what has he done against Tobi(not the jinchuuriki). Nothing really. He can't even blitz Tobi.

tobis above hashiramas level. its almost impossible to hit him. hes held up better than 99% of shinobis would vs 6 edo jins/bijuus plus tobi sharingan/rinnegan.

Madara curb-stomped the kages and stated something about how Hashirama was the only one who could best him.

^ That's a fact, came from the manga

character opinions cant be considered word of god. madaras incorrect. because sage of six paths, full power kabuto, tobi and shisui could best him too. madara hasnt met those people ergo his opinions biased and behind the times.

BUt Naruto has to breath and he would breath n the pollen

naruto has Sm clones and they will detect a huge cloud of chakra easy. kuramas faced hashirama so i think he would warn naruto about it and tell him how madara countered it.

How does Naruto beat Advent of following trees?

thirteen BM clones all using fuuton rasenshuriken

Hype wise Hashirama Stomps:

narutos the saviour, perfect jinchuriki, fastest man on the planet, and reincarnation/descendent of sage. how is that worse hype than hashiramas

Naruto's the one with the most jutsu in the series, I believe.

orochimaru or jiraiya say hi

[PrinceofPeace]

^ Great points I tottaly agree great job

Also look at them polls

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Naruto had back-up during the Tobi fight
Yes, hence why I said he dealt with the Bijuu largely alone. He had help, but he did the lion's share of the work in fighting them.
The cloak has not blocked from breathing in toxins. So are you saying Posion Smoke would not even work?
Just because the cloak has never been shown to block toxins doesn't mean it can't. Tsunade has never been shown to break a twig in half, but that doesn't mean she can't. Yes, I'm saying poison smoke won't work-nothing is going to touch Naruto unless it can break through the cloak first through force and considering how durable his earlier cloaks were (4 tails blocked Orochimaru's Kusanagi sword) that's not likely to happen. Yes, this mode's cloak might not be as strong as as the V2 cloak, but it can certainly stop falling particles of pollen or poison gas which have no force/penetrating power behind them.

About polls: They're well and good, but the problem with them is people just vote before they've actually read the discussion. I've responded twice to people voting for Hashirama due to Madara beating the Kages and Madara saying only Hashirama could beat him even though current Madara is exponentially stronger than the Madara who fought Hashirama due to having Hashirama's and Pain's powers added to his own as well as being in Edo form which means regen and infinite chakra.

Now please tell me how Hashirama stops a Bijuu bomb, 13+ Rasenshuriken, a gigantic fire style attack enhanced with oil and wind, Ma+Pa's Genjutsu, or just getting blitzed by Bijuu Mode Naruto or his KCM clones. And don't say pollen because we've offered up multiple examples for how Naruto counters it.

[PrinceofPeace]

ok so we agree on that

That argument works in both ways for me and you. But Naruto is breathing in the pollen. So how does the cloak otuside of his body help?

Not all people vote before looking at OP.

Hashirama stopped a TBB before so he can do it again
Rasenshurikens are dodgable. Also he can counter with wood wall
Hashirama has the home filed advantage in the forest so blitzin gis hard
wheres the fire

[Godaime Kazekage]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

ok so we agree on that

That argument works in both ways for me and you. But Naruto is breathing in the pollen. So how does the cloak otuside of his body help?
Hmm-I don't think you understand what I'm trying to convey so I'll try to make a diagram.

. ...... ...... .... ........... .......
. . ....... ......... ...... ........ . . . . ..
. .. . .KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK . . . . ...
. . . .KK ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, KK. . . .
. . .. KK ,,,,,,Dattebayo,,,,,,,KK .. .. . . .
. . . KK ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,KK . ... .
... KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK . . .
K=Kurama form chakra cloak (pretend that the K's form the shape of a fox and not a rectangle)
.=Pollen particle
Dattebayo=Naruto

The pollen doesn't get through the chakra cloak so he doesn't breathe it in.
Hashirama stopped a TBB before so he can do it again
Video game filler and that TBB sat there for an eternity and never exploded-As evidenced with Bee vs. Taka, jinks can make the TBB explode fairly quickly and Hashirama can't stop a TBB that has exploded.

Rasenshurikens are dodgable.
Good luck dodging it when the 3RK couldn't avoid the attack against one KCM clone-how's Hashirama going to dodge 13?

Also he can counter with wood wall
Rasenshuriken can cut through mountains-Wood wall's not gonna stop it.
Hashirama has the home filed advantage in the forest so blitzin gis hard
Not when Naruto has tons of clones to attack him with from different angles that will all be faster than him. Also Naruto can destroy the forest in a matter of seconds.
wheres the fire
Shima (aka Ma): Sage Art- Fire release stream

In bold.

P.S. I'm glad you joined the forum-even though we hardly ever agree there's so much more for me to do since Narutoverse is my favorite section of the forum.

[BMC1994]

@godaime

Nice Diagram

[PrinceofPeace]

Yeah nice diagram but I am still not convinced. I looked up the chakra cloak and it does not say anything about toxins so...........